I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

If the terminals on the circuit breaker and the stove are rated for aluminum wire you should be okay as long as all connections are tight. Loose connections cause arcing which generates heat and sparks.

The circuit breaker should have a label on it with CUAL or ALCU or something similar. The stove wiring diagram or a label at the power connection should indicate the same thing.

If the stove is not rated for aluminum wire, you can install a surface mount range receptacle on the wire, and mount it on the wall very low. Then connect a range cord to the stove and plug that into the range receptacle. Make sure that the range receptacle is rated for aluminum wire (They usually are). Range receptacles and cords come in 3 wire and 4 wire versions. Four wire is preferred, but if you only have a three wire cable coming out of the wall, go with a 3 wire range receptacle and cord.

The circuit breaker can be replaced with one rated for copper and aluminum.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 14:28:40 -0400, Tina
wrote:

I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)
If they have been there for 40 years without a problem DON'T TOUCH
THEM.
My house , built in 1974, has all aluminum wiring and I'm not worried.
The screws are not copper anyway - sometimes they are brass, but more
often plated steel.
I switched all my devices to co-ALR devices last year - except for the
Range and the Drier

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT), John G
wrote:


I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

If the terminals on the circuit breaker and the stove are rated for aluminum wire you should be okay as long as all connections are tight. Loose connections cause arcing which generates heat and sparks.

The circuit breaker should have a label on it with CUAL or ALCU or something similar. The stove wiring diagram or a label at the power connection should indicate the same thing.

If the stove is not rated for aluminum wire, you can install a surface mount range receptacle on the wire, and mount it on the wall very low. Then connect a range cord to the stove and plug that into the range receptacle. Make sure that the range receptacle is rated for aluminum wire (They usually are). Range receptacles and cords come in 3 wire and 4 wire versions. Four wire is preferred, but if you only have a three wire cable coming out of the wall, go with a 3 wire range receptacle and cord.

The circuit breaker can be replaced with one rated for copper and aluminum.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV
The range WILL already have an outlet for the stove to plug into.
AFAIK Aluminum wiring was NEVER used "direct connected" to a stove -
at least not within code.

I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

If the terminals on the circuit breaker and the stove are rated for aluminum wire you should be okay as long as all connections are tight. Loose connections cause arcing which generates heat and sparks.

The circuit breaker should have a label on it with CUAL or ALCU or something similar. The stove wiring diagram or a label at the power connection should indicate the same thing.

If the stove is not rated for aluminum wire, you can install a surface mount range receptacle on the wire, and mount it on the wall very low. Then connect a range cord to the stove and plug that into the range receptacle. Make sure that the range receptacle is rated for aluminum wire (They usually are). Range receptacles and cords come in 3 wire and 4 wire versions. Four wire is preferred, but if you only have a three wire cable coming out of the wall, go with a 3 wire range receptacle and cord.

The circuit breaker can be replaced with one rated for copper and aluminum.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV
The range WILL already have an outlet for the stove to plug into.
AFAIK Aluminum wiring was NEVER used "direct connected" to a stove -
at least not within code.

There are several hundred condos and townhomes in my area built in the 1980's. All of the ranges were hardwired with either #6 or #8 aluminum service entrance cable. Some with 3 wire and some with 4 wire. I get a few calls a year to change them to plug and receptacle when the range gets replaced.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV

On 19/03/17 05:31, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

Do you store food in a range? He calls it a stove later.

Steel has to be cadmium-plated if it comes into contact with aluminum,
but I haven't heard of a mix of aluminum and copper. The problem is
that the two metals set up a miniature electric cell. The Web says yes,
you will have a problem:

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml

The result looks pretty dreadful.

A liquid must be present to be an electrolyte. I wouldn't expect
condensation in your situation, but I am a Ham, not an electrician,
on the other side of the world.

A stove has a heavy current drain. Copper is more conductive than
aluminum, and may make a difference. The terminal bar in the breaker
box may be brass, an alloy. The screw could get pretty hot, but to
cause a fire, there must be something flammable nearby. What do your
local wiring regulations require? A man with solar panels wanted to tap
the 12 volt feed for low-voltage use in his house. He was told it was
against the regulations. He thought he would be O.K. What they didn't
tell him was that non-regulation wiring could void his homeowners'
insurance. You need to check that out as well.

HTH,

Doug.

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 11:03:06 AM UTC-4, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
On 19/03/17 05:31, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

Do you store food in a range? He calls it a stove later.

Steel has to be cadmium-plated if it comes into contact with aluminum,
but I haven't heard of a mix of aluminum and copper. The problem is
that the two metals set up a miniature electric cell. The Web says yes,
you will have a problem:

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml

What an awesome, credible reference on wiring practices,
electrical safety and code issues.



The result looks pretty dreadful.

A liquid must be present to be an electrolyte. I wouldn't expect
condensation in your situation, but I am a Ham, not an electrician,
on the other side of the world.

A stove has a heavy current drain. Copper is more conductive than
aluminum, and may make a difference. The terminal bar in the breaker
box may be brass, an alloy. The screw could get pretty hot, but to
cause a fire, there must be something flammable nearby. What do your
local wiring regulations require? A man with solar panels wanted to tap
the 12 volt feed for low-voltage use in his house. He was told it was
against the regulations.

Which of course has nothing to do with the question asked.




He thought he would be O.K. What they didn't
tell him was that non-regulation wiring could void his homeowners'
insurance. You need to check that out as well.

HTH,

Doug.

Please cite some actual cases where a homeowner's non-regulation
wiring voided his homeowner's insurance. This claim has been
made here many times, I have yet to see any actual example of
it occurring.

On 3/19/2017 8:03 AM, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
On 19/03/17 05:31, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

Do you store food in a range? He calls it a stove later.

Steel has to be cadmium-plated if it comes into contact with aluminum,
but I haven't heard of a mix of aluminum and copper. The problem is
that the two metals set up a miniature electric cell. The Web says yes,
you will have a problem:

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml

The result looks pretty dreadful.

A liquid must be present to be an electrolyte. I wouldn't expect
condensation in your situation, but I am a Ham, not an electrician,
on the other side of the world.

A stove has a heavy current drain. Copper is more conductive than
aluminum, and may make a difference. The terminal bar in the breaker
box may be brass, an alloy. The screw could get pretty hot, but to
cause a fire, there must be something flammable nearby. What do your
local wiring regulations require? A man with solar panels wanted to tap
the 12 volt feed for low-voltage use in his house. He was told it was
against the regulations. He thought he would be O.K. What they didn't
tell him was that non-regulation wiring could void his homeowners'
insurance. You need to check that out as well.

HTH,

Doug.


Well, something with this message has run afoul, as far back as the part
where someone's storing food in the range. Personally, I don't store
stuff in my range. And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.
Conclusion: it seems better to store food in the refer, not the range.

Thank you and have a Pleasance day.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:03:00 +1100, Doug Laidlaw
wrote:

On 19/03/17 05:31, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

Do you store food in a range? He calls it a stove later.

Steel has to be cadmium-plated if it comes into contact with aluminum,
but I haven't heard of a mix of aluminum and copper. The problem is
that the two metals set up a miniature electric cell. The Web says yes,
you will have a problem:

CU/AL lugs actually perform better with aluminum wire than they do
with copper wire. The only problem that aluminum wire had was when
used with steel binding screws in 15 and 20 amp side wired devices.
The CO/AL-r device fixed that but the reputation was destroyed and 12
and 10 ga aluminum wire pretty much disappeared. The other issue was
the 1350 alloy, designed for overhead drops that became very brittle.
The AA-8*** alloys are far more forgiving of bending and would not be
a problem. Larger aluminum conductors that go in lugs, not binder
screws, has never been a problem and is the industry standard in lots
of 30a and up wiring.
BTW the "goo" makes people feel better but it has not been
demonstrated that it really does much. I know of no terminal
manufacturer that "requires" it in the instructions although some do
"recommend" it. (meaningless in the code sense).

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:06:15 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke"
wrote:

And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.

The "drawer" under a range is a nod to the code rule that allows the
cord and plug "disconnect" to be behind a "drawer".

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 14:28:40 -0400, Tina
wrote:

I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

I'm not an electrician either Tina. My house is over 20 years old. It
had aluminum wire for the HVAC condenser and a double oven. I had the
electrician change the wires on the HVAC to copper, because is was an
easy job. The oven is the only thing with aluminum wire now. I
"think" he did an amp draw test on the aluminum with both ovens turned
on high. He said things were good. I'm not worried. Many years ago
there were fires in mobile homes, because they were moved and wires
loosened up or such. It would be expensive for me to have copper run
to the ovens. It ain't broke so I'm not paying. You have good advice
here from folks that know wiring, electrical, etc. I'd say relax and
not worry.
--
'...we don't wanna bring our guns, but ready if it goes there -- Madison Rising

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:35:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:06:15 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke"
wrote:

And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.

The "drawer" under a range is a nod to the code rule that allows the
cord and plug "disconnect" to be behind a "drawer".
It is there for pot storage.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:35:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:06:15 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke"
wrote:

And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.

The "drawer" under a range is a nod to the code rule that allows the
cord and plug "disconnect" to be behind a "drawer".
It is there for pot storage.

It depends on the range. Most are listed for storage,but a few have
heaters in them and are listed as for warming.

There is a big thing going on around the intenet now on things we have
been doing wrong. One is that draw. They say it is for warming, but
what they do not say is the draw needs the heater in it to be a warming
draw.

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 5:23:35 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:35:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:06:15 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke"
wrote:

And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.

The "drawer" under a range is a nod to the code rule that allows the
cord and plug "disconnect" to be behind a "drawer".
It is there for pot storage.

It depends on the range. Most are listed for storage,but a few have
heaters in them and are listed as for warming.

There is a big thing going on around the intenet now on things we have
been doing wrong. One is that draw. They say it is for warming, but
what they do not say is the draw needs the heater in it to be a warming
draw.

Umm, what's a "warming draw"? Is that what you'd do with a hot pencil or flaming magic marker? ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Drawer Monster

"Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote in message
...

On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

this is so me

"Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote in message ...

On 3/19/2017 8:03 AM, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
On 19/03/17 05:31, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

Do you store food in a range? He calls it a stove later.

Steel has to be cadmium-plated if it comes into contact with aluminum,
but I haven't heard of a mix of aluminum and copper. The problem is
that the two metals set up a miniature electric cell. The Web says yes,
you will have a problem:

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml

The result looks pretty dreadful.

A liquid must be present to be an electrolyte. I wouldn't expect
condensation in your situation, but I am a Ham, not an electrician,
on the other side of the world.

A stove has a heavy current drain. Copper is more conductive than
aluminum, and may make a difference. The terminal bar in the breaker
box may be brass, an alloy. The screw could get pretty hot, but to
cause a fire, there must be something flammable nearby. What do your
local wiring regulations require? A man with solar panels wanted to tap
the 12 volt feed for low-voltage use in his house. He was told it was
against the regulations. He thought he would be O.K. What they didn't
tell him was that non-regulation wiring could void his homeowners'
insurance. You need to check that out as well.

HTH,

Doug.


Well, something with this message has run afoul, as far back as the part
where someone's storing food in the range. Personally, I don't store
stuff in my range. And another item... that pull-out drawer just
beneath the main oven compartment says "Not For Storage"; so I would
assume you wouldn't store stuff like combustibles there either.
Conclusion: it seems better to store food in the refer, not the range.

Thank you and have a Pleasance day.

you wouldn't store flashlight batteries would you

its a wire tube

On 03/19/2017 10:21 PM, David wrote:


"Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote in message
...

On 3/18/2017 11:28 AM, Tina wrote:
I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25
years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a
problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the
outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper
wire?


Are "free-standing" ranges healthier for food storage, more so than
regular ranges?

this is so me



Would you be willing to pay more for a freestanding range if she was
humanely raised?

"John G" wrote in message


There are several hundred condos and townhomes in my area built in the
1980's. All of the ranges were hardwired with either #6 or #8 aluminum
service entrance cable. Some with 3 wire and some with 4 wire. I get a few
calls a year to change them to plug and receptacle when the range gets
replaced.

I am sure they're not the only ones, either. Whether the installation was
codeworthy requires access to 40 year old codes but it's moot since you've
actually seen and serviced such installations. The dangers of AL wiring
took a while to expose and many of them related to faulty installation
techniques. Still, others took a while to ferret out. IIRC, there's old
and new tech AL wire that reduced the problem of AL wiring loosening under
the steel screws in device connections because of the different coefficients
of expansion.

Would I rip out AL branch wiring if I found it in my house? Maybe. But if
I didn't I'd certify and inspect each and every connection and still
wouldn't feel comfortable. I'd still worry that the AL wiring had more
failure points than copper.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

If they have been there for 40 years without a problem DON'T TOUCH
THEM.

I'd still inspect them, especially in an older home. One of the hot feeders
from the meter had corroded after about 40 years. Thermal contraction and
expansion, mechanical vibration and condensation all take their toll. Not
sure what caused the initial probem - circuit box mounted on inside
cinderblock wall of unheated basement area so I suspect condensation.

Once an AL connection starts arcing the process proceeds much more quickly
than it does with CU wire, AFAIK. But K sometimes means "knew" and not
"know." (-:

Is/was your installation pure AL or copper-clad?

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 05:55:57 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

If they have been there for 40 years without a problem DON'T TOUCH
THEM.

I'd still inspect them, especially in an older home. One of the hot feeders
from the meter had corroded after about 40 years. Thermal contraction and
expansion, mechanical vibration and condensation all take their toll. Not
sure what caused the initial probem - circuit box mounted on inside
cinderblock wall of unheated basement area so I suspect condensation.

Once an AL connection starts arcing the process proceeds much more quickly
than it does with CU wire, AFAIK. But K sometimes means "knew" and not
"know." (-:

Is/was your installation pure AL or copper-clad?
All second generation solid aluminum.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 19:53:32 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 05:55:57 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

If they have been there for 40 years without a problem DON'T TOUCH
THEM.

I'd still inspect them, especially in an older home. One of the hot feeders
from the meter had corroded after about 40 years. Thermal contraction and
expansion, mechanical vibration and condensation all take their toll. Not
sure what caused the initial probem - circuit box mounted on inside
cinderblock wall of unheated basement area so I suspect condensation.

Once an AL connection starts arcing the process proceeds much more quickly
than it does with CU wire, AFAIK. But K sometimes means "knew" and not
"know." (-:

Is/was your installation pure AL or copper-clad?
All second generation solid aluminum.

If you used aluminium instead of aloominum it might work better :-)

--
Peter is listening to Eric Clapton - Layla

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 4:55:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT), John G
wrote:


I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

If the terminals on the circuit breaker and the stove are rated for aluminum wire you should be okay as long as all connections are tight. Loose connections cause arcing which generates heat and sparks.

The circuit breaker should have a label on it with CUAL or ALCU or something similar. The stove wiring diagram or a label at the power connection should indicate the same thing.

If the stove is not rated for aluminum wire, you can install a surface mount range receptacle on the wire, and mount it on the wall very low. Then connect a range cord to the stove and plug that into the range receptacle. Make sure that the range receptacle is rated for aluminum wire (They usually are). Range receptacles and cords come in 3 wire and 4 wire versions. Four wire is preferred, but if you only have a three wire cable coming out of the wall, go with a 3 wire range receptacle and cord.

The circuit breaker can be replaced with one rated for copper and aluminum.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV
The range WILL already have an outlet for the stove to plug into.
AFAIK Aluminum wiring was NEVER used "direct connected" to a stove -
at least not within code.

John

Many electric stoves were built, tested and listed by a recognized electrical testing laboratory, sold, and installed with connection blocks which were listed for both copper and aluminum conductors. The reason that the lugs are seldom used for connections of cables is the requirements for ease of servicing and cleaning in many residential codes which in turn dictate the use of cord and plug connections for kitchen ranges. In those areas where such residential codes are not adopted it is very common to see the cable connected directly to the range. With built in counter cook tops and ovens it is rare to see cord and plug connections used because of the increased cost of the additional parts and the additional labor that would be required for installation. As long as the connections are listed and or labeled for both Copper & Aluminum conductors there is no issue.

One of the factors which led to a lot of direct connection of Aluminum conductors to ranges was an exception in prior editions of the National Electric Code (NEC) in the USA which permitted the range's non current carrying conductive parts; such as the frame and metal case; to be bonded to the neutral of the supply circuit in lieu of requiring a separate equipment grounding conductor provided that the circuit originated in the Service Equipment. Since the neutral would only carry a rather small current during normal operation it was thought that the voltage drop would be low enough to avoid any hazardous difference of potential between the range and adjacent grounded surfaces such as refrigerators, metal sinks, other electrical appliances, and so forth. This exception may have originated during world war two as a materials conservation measure. Experience with it showed that although problems were quite rare any high resistance connection or open in the neutral to the Ranges and Clothes Driers installed under this exception created an extremely dangerous condition. As a result the exception now applies only to extensions of the original circuits and the installation of replacement appliances. Thousands of these installations will be around for decades.

--
Tom Horne

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Horne
wrote:

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 4:55:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT), John G
wrote:


I have had aluminum wire feeding my free-standing range for over 25 years with no problems, but now I am concerned that it still could be a problem if it is connected to a copper screw at the breaker box or the outlet behind the stove.

Could this cause a fire or should I have the wire replaced with copper wire?

The wire has no visible markings of what size it is but I would guess #6 wire.

The breaker box and stove outlet have been there since day one. I am not an electrician and could use an opinion.


Thank you Tina

(My concern came from some new reports on TV about home fires.)

If the terminals on the circuit breaker and the stove are rated for aluminum wire you should be okay as long as all connections are tight. Loose connections cause arcing which generates heat and sparks.

The circuit breaker should have a label on it with CUAL or ALCU or something similar. The stove wiring diagram or a label at the power connection should indicate the same thing.

If the stove is not rated for aluminum wire, you can install a surface mount range receptacle on the wire, and mount it on the wall very low. Then connect a range cord to the stove and plug that into the range receptacle. Make sure that the range receptacle is rated for aluminum wire (They usually are). Range receptacles and cords come in 3 wire and 4 wire versions. Four wire is preferred, but if you only have a three wire cable coming out of the wall, go with a 3 wire range receptacle and cord.

The circuit breaker can be replaced with one rated for copper and aluminum.

John Grabowski
https://www.MrElectrician.TV
The range WILL already have an outlet for the stove to plug into.
AFAIK Aluminum wiring was NEVER used "direct connected" to a stove -
at least not within code.

John

Many electric stoves were built, tested and listed by a recognized electrical testing laboratory, sold, and installed with connection blocks which were listed for both copper and aluminum conductors. The reason that the lugs are seldom used for connections of cables is the requirements for ease of servicing and cleaning in many residential codes which in turn dictate the use of cord and plug connections for kitchen ranges. In those areas where such residential codes are not adopted it is very common to see the cable connected directly to the range. With built in counter cook tops and ovens it is rare to see cord and plug connections used because of the increased cost of the additional parts and the additional labor that would be required for installation. As long as the connections are listed and or labeled for both Copper & Aluminum conductors there is no issue.


Built in and "stand alone" are totally different - a built-in doesn't
get moved
One of the factors which led to a lot of direct connection of Aluminum conductors to ranges was an exception in prior editions of the National Electric Code (NEC) in the USA which permitted the range's non current carrying conductive parts; such as the frame and metal case; to be bonded to the neutral of the supply circuit in lieu of requiring a separate equipment grounding conductor provided that the circuit originated in the Service Equipment. Since the neutral would only carry a rather small current during normal operation it was thought that the voltage drop would be low enough to avoid any hazardous difference of potential between the range and adjacent grounded surfaces such as refrigerators, metal sinks, other electrical appliances, and so forth. This exception may have originated during world war two as a materials conservation measure. Experience with it showed that although problems were quite rare any high resistance connection or open in the neutral to the Ranges and
Clothes Driers installed under this exception created an extremely dangerous condition. As a result the exception now applies only to extensions of the original circuits and the installation of replacement appliances. Thousands of these installations will be around for decades.
Here in Ontario "range plugs" and "drier plugs" have been required for
at least 45 years.It is in my 1969 copy of the ontario electrical code
in the 1969 ontario supplement section 26 subsection 106.This became a
CODE REQUIREMENT in 1969 in Ontario. I am not sure if it became a code
requirement Canada wide at that time or not. ( I remember quite a few
details frim that time period as I worked with/for my Dad who was an
electrician in Ontario during those years, before starting my
apprenticeship as an auto mechanic)- and I have both 1966 and 1969
code books, all these years later - - - This is about the same time
aluminum wiring became popular and problems with aa-1350 wire started
to surface. Requiring a plug-in "cord connected" installation reduced
problems caused by flexing 1350 aluminaum conductors.

`On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 17:24:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Horne
wrote:

John

Many electric stoves were built, tested and listed by a recognized electrical testing laboratory, sold, and installed with connection blocks which were listed for both copper and aluminum conductors. The reason that the lugs are seldom used for connections of cables is the requirements for ease of servicing and cleaning in many residential codes which in turn dictate the use of cord and plug connections for kitchen ranges. In those areas where such residential codes are not adopted it is very common to see the cable connected directly to the range. With built in counter cook tops and ovens it is rare to see cord and plug connections used because of the increased cost of the additional parts and the additional labor that would be required for installation. As long as the connections are listed and or labeled for both Copper & Aluminum conductors there is no issue.


Built in and "stand alone" are totally different - a built-in doesn't
get moved
One of the factors which led to a lot of direct connection of Aluminum conductors to ranges was an exception in prior editions of the National Electric Code (NEC) in the USA which permitted the range's non current carrying conductive parts; such as the frame and metal case; to be bonded to the neutral of the supply circuit in lieu of requiring a separate equipment grounding conductor provided that the circuit originated in the Service Equipment. Since the neutral would only carry a rather small current during normal operation it was thought that the voltage drop would be low enough to avoid any hazardous difference of potential between the range and adjacent grounded surfaces such as refrigerators, metal sinks, other electrical appliances, and so forth. This exception may have originated during world war two as a materials conservation measure. Experience with it showed that although problems were quite rare any high resistance connection or open in the neutral to the Ranges and
Clothes Driers installed under this exception created an extremely dangerous condition. As a result the exception now applies only to extensions of the original circuits and the installation of replacement appliances. Thousands of these installations will be around for decades.
Here in Ontario "range plugs" and "drier plugs" have been required for
at least 45 years.It is in my 1969 copy of the ontario electrical code
in the 1969 ontario supplement section 26 subsection 106.This became a
CODE REQUIREMENT in 1969 in Ontario. I am not sure if it became a code
requirement Canada wide at that time or not. ( I remember quite a few
details frim that time period as I worked with/for my Dad who was an
electrician in Ontario during those years, before starting my
apprenticeship as an auto mechanic)- and I have both 1966 and 1969
code books, all these years later - - - This is about the same time
aluminum wiring became popular and problems with aa-1350 wire started
to surface. Requiring a plug-in "cord connected" installation reduced
problems caused by flexing 1350 aluminaum conductors.

I bet those range and dryer plugs were 3 prong on 1969. It was 1996
when the NEC finally decided the war was over and eliminated using the
neutral as the ground.
It was not actually because of any particular body count, it was just
to standardize grounding practices.
The ironic thing was, if these were wired with Romex, it usually
included a ground along with the 3 insulated conductors since 3 wire
without ground was not really very common. The ONLY 2 wire w/g that
was allowed was SE cable and only if it was coming from the main panel
with the main bonding jumper (no subs)
The typical installation was the white neutral going to the grounded
terminal on the receptacle and the grounding conductor went to the box
so conversion to the 4 conductor plug is trivial. Some idiots just cut
the ground off.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 17:41:37 -0400, wrote:

`On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 17:24:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Horne
wrote:

John

Many electric stoves were built, tested and listed by a recognized electrical testing laboratory, sold, and installed with connection blocks which were listed for both copper and aluminum conductors. The reason that the lugs are seldom used for connections of cables is the requirements for ease of servicing and cleaning in many residential codes which in turn dictate the use of cord and plug connections for kitchen ranges. In those areas where such residential codes are not adopted it is very common to see the cable connected directly to the range. With built in counter cook tops and ovens it is rare to see cord and plug connections used because of the increased cost of the additional parts and the additional labor that would be required for installation. As long as the connections are listed and or labeled for both Copper & Aluminum conductors there is no issue.


Built in and "stand alone" are totally different - a built-in doesn't
get moved
One of the factors which led to a lot of direct connection of Aluminum conductors to ranges was an exception in prior editions of the National Electric Code (NEC) in the USA which permitted the range's non current carrying conductive parts; such as the frame and metal case; to be bonded to the neutral of the supply circuit in lieu of requiring a separate equipment grounding conductor provided that the circuit originated in the Service Equipment. Since the neutral would only carry a rather small current during normal operation it was thought that the voltage drop would be low enough to avoid any hazardous difference of potential between the range and adjacent grounded surfaces such as refrigerators, metal sinks, other electrical appliances, and so forth. This exception may have originated during world war two as a materials conservation measure. Experience with it showed that although problems were quite rare any high resistance connection or open in the neutral to the Ranges
and
Clothes Driers installed under this exception created an extremely dangerous condition. As a result the exception now applies only to extensions of the original circuits and the installation of replacement appliances. Thousands of these installations will be around for decades.
Here in Ontario "range plugs" and "drier plugs" have been required for
at least 45 years.It is in my 1969 copy of the ontario electrical code
in the 1969 ontario supplement section 26 subsection 106.This became a
CODE REQUIREMENT in 1969 in Ontario. I am not sure if it became a code
requirement Canada wide at that time or not. ( I remember quite a few
details frim that time period as I worked with/for my Dad who was an
electrician in Ontario during those years, before starting my
apprenticeship as an auto mechanic)- and I have both 1966 and 1969
code books, all these years later - - - This is about the same time
aluminum wiring became popular and problems with aa-1350 wire started
to surface. Requiring a plug-in "cord connected" installation reduced
problems caused by flexing 1350 aluminaum conductors.

I bet those range and dryer plugs were 3 prong on 1969. It was 1996
when the NEC finally decided the war was over and eliminated using the
neutral as the ground.

You are correct. I believe Ontario started requiring 4 wire plugs in
the early '90s but I'm not sure, as I was out of the electrical bus by
that time and my Dad had retired. by 1990.
It was not actually because of any particular body count, it was just
to standardize grounding practices.
The ironic thing was, if these were wired with Romex, it usually
included a ground along with the 3 insulated conductors since 3 wire
without ground was not really very common. The ONLY 2 wire w/g that
was allowed was SE cable and only if it was coming from the main panel
with the main bonding jumper (no subs)
The typical installation was the white neutral going to the grounded
terminal on the receptacle and the grounding conductor went to the box
so conversion to the 4 conductor plug is trivial. Some idiots just cut
the ground off.
Correct - virtually all stove and drier cable was 3 wire plus ground
- although there WAS some 2 wire plus ground used since there was no
neutral required on a strictly 240 volt appliance. It was the 120 volt
clocks and lights that screwed things up, requiring a neutral.
European 240 volt appliances did not require the neutral because the
controls ran off a transformer connected to the 240 volt power.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:07:55 -0400, wrote:

You are correct. I believe Ontario started requiring 4 wire plugs in
the early '90s but I'm not sure, as I was out of the electrical bus by
that time and my Dad had retired. by 1990.
It was not actually because of any particular body count, it was just
to standardize grounding practices.
The ironic thing was, if these were wired with Romex, it usually
included a ground along with the 3 insulated conductors since 3 wire
without ground was not really very common. The ONLY 2 wire w/g that
was allowed was SE cable and only if it was coming from the main panel
with the main bonding jumper (no subs)
The typical installation was the white neutral going to the grounded
terminal on the receptacle and the grounding conductor went to the box
so conversion to the 4 conductor plug is trivial. Some idiots just cut
the ground off.
Correct - virtually all stove and drier cable was 3 wire plus ground
- although there WAS some 2 wire plus ground used since there was no
neutral required on a strictly 240 volt appliance. It was the 120 volt
clocks and lights that screwed things up, requiring a neutral.
European 240 volt appliances did not require the neutral because the
controls ran off a transformer connected to the 240 volt power.

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:18:39 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:07:55 -0400, wrote:

You are correct. I believe Ontario started requiring 4 wire plugs in
the early '90s but I'm not sure, as I was out of the electrical bus by
that time and my Dad had retired. by 1990.
It was not actually because of any particular body count, it was just
to standardize grounding practices.
The ironic thing was, if these were wired with Romex, it usually
included a ground along with the 3 insulated conductors since 3 wire
without ground was not really very common. The ONLY 2 wire w/g that
was allowed was SE cable and only if it was coming from the main panel
with the main bonding jumper (no subs)
The typical installation was the white neutral going to the grounded
terminal on the receptacle and the grounding conductor went to the box
so conversion to the 4 conductor plug is trivial. Some idiots just cut
the ground off.
Correct - virtually all stove and drier cable was 3 wire plus ground
- although there WAS some 2 wire plus ground used since there was no
neutral required on a strictly 240 volt appliance. It was the 120 volt
clocks and lights that screwed things up, requiring a neutral.
European 240 volt appliances did not require the neutral because the
controls ran off a transformer connected to the 240 volt power.

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.
You'd think - and with today's solid state controls you'd think
they'd just run the transformer off the 240 too - but nope - it's all
on the 120 too.

Even on the stuff made by European and Asian companies - so they are
not "world market"

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:00:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:18:39 -0400, wrote:

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.
You'd think - and with today's solid state controls you'd think
they'd just run the transformer off the 240 too - but nope - it's all
on the 120 too.

Even on the stuff made by European and Asian companies - so they are
not "world market"

I bet these days the electronics use a wide mouth switcher supply and
don't care about voltage

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:47:13 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:00:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:18:39 -0400, wrote:

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.
You'd think - and with today's solid state controls you'd think
they'd just run the transformer off the 240 too - but nope - it's all
on the 120 too.

Even on the stuff made by European and Asian companies - so they are
not "world market"

I bet these days the electronics use a wide mouth switcher supply and
don't care about voltage
You'd lose the bet. I just scrapped out a Samsung washer due to a
broken drum spider, and the electronics run off one side of the 240 -
That was mabee 6 years old.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:57:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:47:13 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:00:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:18:39 -0400, wrote:

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.
You'd think - and with today's solid state controls you'd think
they'd just run the transformer off the 240 too - but nope - it's all
on the 120 too.

Even on the stuff made by European and Asian companies - so they are
not "world market"

I bet these days the electronics use a wide mouth switcher supply and
don't care about voltage
You'd lose the bet. I just scrapped out a Samsung washer due to a
broken drum spider, and the electronics run off one side of the 240 -
That was mabee 6 years old.
That doesn't mean the card would not run on 240

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 23:33:50 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:57:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 21:47:13 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:00:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:18:39 -0400, wrote:

I was amazed when I found out that the timer and motor in a dryer was
120v. Since these are purpose built for the dryer application I
assumed they would be 240v.
You'd think - and with today's solid state controls you'd think
they'd just run the transformer off the 240 too - but nope - it's all
on the 120 too.

Even on the stuff made by European and Asian companies - so they are
not "world market"

I bet these days the electronics use a wide mouth switcher supply and
don't care about voltage
You'd lose the bet. I just scrapped out a Samsung washer due to a
broken drum spider, and the electronics run off one side of the 240 -
That was mabee 6 years old.
That doesn't mean the card would not run on 240
There is a transformer that says 125 volts on it, si I'm pretty sure
the "magic smoke" would be released at 240V.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:13:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 23:33:50 -0400, wrote:


I bet these days the electronics use a wide mouth switcher supply and
don't care about voltage
You'd lose the bet. I just scrapped out a Samsung washer due to a
broken drum spider, and the electronics run off one side of the 240 -
That was mabee 6 years old.
That doesn't mean the card would not run on 240
There is a transformer that says 125 volts on it, si I'm pretty sure
the "magic smoke" would be released at 240V.

That wouldn't be a switcher then would it? Most new electronics are
getting away from transformer supplies so that must be a pretty old
design.