Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

So, I told them to just dump it in a bucket of water.

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?

Any thoughts on this bucket of water approach, etc. ?
Other ?

Thanks,
Bob

Bob wrote:

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?

Any thoughts on this bucket of water approach, etc. ?
Other ?

How about just "remove the battery"?



Thanks,
Bob

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:39:07 -0500
Bill wrote:

Bob wrote:

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't
sound like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?

Any thoughts on this bucket of water approach, etc. ?
Other ?

How about just "remove the battery"?



Thanks,
Bob

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500
Bob wrote:

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

So, I told them to just dump it in a bucket of water.

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?

Any thoughts on this bucket of water approach, etc. ?
Other ?


I don't think putting the smoke alarm in a bucket of water is a good idea. I have installed these types of alarms. The battery is not serviceable or accessible.

I think that some of these models have a hush feature for false alarms. You just have to push the test button and it gives you a few minutes of delay. Check the instructions.

I seem to recall that the disable switch is to be used at the end of the smoke alarm's useful life before disposal.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 6:25:20 AM UTC-5, Bob wrote:
Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.


Why isn't anytime a good time to use the switch? I'm assuming
the case you're talking about is where the alarm goes nuts for
no reason and won't stop sounding. In that case, the switch sure
seems like an easier option than looking for a bucket of water.




So, I told them to just dump it in a bucket of water.

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?


I haven't heard of any Li-ion batteries exploding in water.

On 12/31/2016 9:48 AM, trader_4 wrote:

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.


The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.


Why isn't anytime a good time to use the switch? I'm assuming
the case you're talking about is where the alarm goes nuts for
no reason and won't stop sounding. In that case, the switch sure
seems like an easier option than looking for a bucket of water.

The potential problem is for non-technical people finding the switch at
3 AM. AFAIK, water should not be a problem. Better solution may be to
buy them a new one in 9 years.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:51:06 -0500
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/31/2016 9:48 AM, trader_4 wrote:

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.


The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in
the back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them
to start playing with.


Why isn't anytime a good time to use the switch? I'm assuming
the case you're talking about is where the alarm goes nuts for
no reason and won't stop sounding. In that case, the switch sure
seems like an easier option than looking for a bucket of water.

The potential problem is for non-technical people finding the switch
at 3 AM. AFAIK, water should not be a problem. Better solution may
be to buy them a new one in 9 years.


Getting a new smoke alarm for Christmas....Priceless.

In article , lid says...

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.


So, I told them to just dump it in a bucket of water.

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?



Hammer

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

Why do you think it will malfunction. I think that is pretty darn rare.

If the alarm goes off at 3AM, they should assume tthere is a fire or CO.

I had a neighbor whose smoke alarm kept going off for days or weeks, and
he finally took it somewhere to be repaired (so I was told. maybe he
just removed it). Not too long after something burst into flames and
1/4 or 1/2 of the inside of house was destroyed. Fortunately no one was
injured, or at least no one was killed. There had been smoke that
entire time that the detector detected, but that the people couldn't
smell. Of course they should have gotten another detector when they
removed that one, but I would not assume it's defective.

So, I told them to just dump it in a bucket of water.

But, having found out that it is a Li-Ion battery, this doesn't sound
like a good idea anymore.
Explosion hazard in water, etc. ?

I doubt it, because Li batteries explode when they get too hot, from
either sending power out or taking it in too fast. . There's no reason
water woudl make either of these happen** and more importantly it would
cool anything that got hotter than the water.

**Unless maybe it was salt water and made a decent conductor.

However you may ruin the detector and it might not have been bad.

Put the thing in the refrigerator and you will barely hear it even when
you're in the kitchen. It will probably stop too, because it's shielded
from what ever smoke or CO was causing it to go off. . Then take it
out in the morning, take it outside and see if it starts up again. If it
doesn't it's probably good (because the batteries will sound much longer
than one night) Then take it to the same location it was in and see if
it goes off then. If it does you have a real problem.


Any thoughts on this bucket of water approach, etc. ?
Other ?

Thanks,
Bob

On 12/31/2016 11:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.
snipped good advice.

If you failed to teach your son basic home safety, you should take a
do-over!
You don't have to be technical to understand that your first priority
when the alarm goes off is to get the $^% out of the house.
Defeating the alarm is the last thing you should do.

I bet that if you asked nicely, the fire department would come over
and do some basic testing with calibrated equipment for free.

Avoiding false alarms is a high priority for detector vendors.
Yes, they can break, but it's very unlikely. If it goes off, get out!

I have an air quality particle counter. I've done some experiments
with smoke. The particle counter detects a lot of particles long
before the smoke detector alarms. I've found overheated components
in computers when I couldn't smell anything.
Did I mention, if it goes off, get the hell out?

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 9:43:26 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 12/31/2016 11:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.
snipped good advice.

If you failed to teach your son basic home safety, you should take a
do-over!
You don't have to be technical to understand that your first priority
when the alarm goes off is to get the $^% out of the house.
Defeating the alarm is the last thing you should do.

Good grief. Give people some benefit of intelligence. From the post,
it's clear he's talking about a malfunctioning alarm. And IDK about
you, but mine go off occasionally and I don't run out of the house
like a little girl. I find out what triggered it, if it's real, etc.



I bet that if you asked nicely, the fire department would come over
and do some basic testing with calibrated equipment for free.

Sure, at 3AM when an alarm is malfunctioning and there is no fire,
call the fire dept!



Avoiding false alarms is a high priority for detector vendors.
Yes, they can break, but it's very unlikely. If it goes off, get out!

Yes, run like a little girl!



I have an air quality particle counter. I've done some experiments
with smoke. The particle counter detects a lot of particles long
before the smoke detector alarms. I've found overheated components
in computers when I couldn't smell anything.
Did I mention, if it goes off, get the hell out?

Yes, now run along, this forum is for people who aren't afraid of their
own shadow.

On 1/1/2017 7:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 9:43:26 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 12/31/2016 11:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.
snipped good advice.

If you failed to teach your son basic home safety, you should take a
do-over!
You don't have to be technical to understand that your first priority
when the alarm goes off is to get the $^% out of the house.
Defeating the alarm is the last thing you should do.

Good grief. Give people some benefit of intelligence. From the post,
it's clear he's talking about a malfunctioning alarm.


I see no evidence that it's a malfunctioning alarm.
Statistically, it's more likely to be smoke or CO just below the
threshold that spikes for some reason.

Disabling the alarm without finding the reason is evidence of
lack of good sense.

And IDK about
you, but mine go off occasionally and I don't run out of the house
like a little girl. I find out what triggered it, if it's real, etc.

My CO detector went off once. I know it was the detector because the
reading was off scale and the other detectors read zero. I did not
put it in a bucket of water and go back to sleep without investigating.



I bet that if you asked nicely, the fire department would come over
and do some basic testing with calibrated equipment for free.

Sure, at 3AM when an alarm is malfunctioning and there is no fire,
call the fire dept!3AM.

That's not what I recommended. Should have been done the first time it
went off.
BUT, I expect that they would at least give you advice at 3AM.



Avoiding false alarms is a high priority for detector vendors.
Yes, they can break, but it's very unlikely. If it goes off, get out!

Yes, run like a little girl!

EXACTLY! If you don't know what you're doing, get the hell out.
Run down to the store ASAP and get a new one. Your old one is either
useless or you will have evidence that it was a good idea to get out.

Graveyards are full of people who thought they were really smart.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 01 Jan 2017 12:24:45 -0800, mike
wrote:


I see no evidence that it's a malfunctioning alarm.
Statistically, it's more likely to be smoke or CO just below the
threshold that spikes for some reason.etc.....

My CO detector went off once. I know it was the detector because the
reading was off scale and the other detectors read zero. I did not
put it in a bucket of water and go back to sleep without investigating.

Me too. I thought it sort of silly when my brother gave me a CO
detector, but it went off one night. Somehow I either knew or suspected
it was the oil furnace. I turned off the heat and opened the window,
and I couldn't decide when to close the window. It was gettting colder
in my bedroom and with no furnace, there woudl be nothing to reverse
that. I guess I waited a half-hour.

Later the repairman took apart the flue and the six-inch pipe had 2" of
soot lining it, leaving just a 2" diameter path for exhaust gases. He
vacuumed it out. This might have been the time I thought I could
adjust the air intake for the furnace. But it took weeks or months for
the flue to get so clogged that the alarm went off. I never had any
symptoms, headache, etc. before then. I might have had a little
headache that night, I can't remember.

I bet that if you asked nicely, the fire department would come over
and do some basic testing with calibrated equipment for free.

Sure, at 3AM when an alarm is malfunctioning and there is no fire,
call the fire dept!3AM.

That's not what I recommended. Should have been done the first time it
went off.
BUT, I expect that they would at least give you advice at 3AM.

In almost all places, if you call the fire department at 3AM with a
question like this, they will show up with at least 4 men and one
engine. You probably have to beg them not to come and if you've
already said the smoke/CO detector is sounding, I think they'll come
anyhow.

Does it make a different sound for CO and smoke? When people are
alarmed, will they remember which sound is which? Does it display
something to indicate which it is, and if the detector is near the
ceiling, can someone see what it displays? My detectors are 2
separate things so it's clear which is going off, but I'd be willing to
buy a combo if I was sure these questions would not be a p[roblem.


Avoiding false alarms is a high priority for detector vendors.
Yes, they can break, but it's very unlikely. If it goes off, get out!

Yes, run like a little girl!

EXACTLY! If you don't know what you're doing, get the hell out.
Run down to the store ASAP and get a new one. Your old one is either
useless or you will have evidence that it was a good idea to get out.

Graveyards are full of people who thought they were really smart.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 12:24:45 -0800, mike wrote:

Graveyards are full of people who thought they were really smart.

Some even have fences around them, because people are dying to get in.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 01 Jan 2017 02:41:49 -0500, micky
wrote:


Put the thing in the refrigerator and you will barely hear it even when
you're in the kitchen. It will probably stop too, because it's shielded
from what ever smoke or CO was causing it to go off. . Then take it
out in the morning, take it outside and see if it starts up again. If it
doesn't it's probably good (because the batteries will sound much longer
than one night) Then take it to the same location it was in and see if
it goes off then. If it does you have a real problem.

This paragraph refers to when one is cooking and he's burning the grease
in the oven, or I suppose on the stove, and he knows the origin of the
smoke.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 07:41:49 -0000, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

Why do you think it will malfunction. I think that is pretty darn rare.

If the alarm goes off at 3AM, they should assume tthere is a fire or CO.

If fire, can smell smoke. If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.

--
What are the "Man's Three Rules When Getting Old?"
Never pass a bathroom, don't waste a hard-on, and never trust a fart.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 02 Jan 2017 00:55:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 07:41:49 -0000, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

Why do you think it will malfunction. I think that is pretty darn rare.

If the alarm goes off at 3AM, they should assume tthere is a fire or CO.

If fire, can smell smoke.

Not if you're asleep. And not if you're not home, as in the case of
the neighbor whose alarm had been going off occasionally for weeks.

If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.

Really, so no one ever dies of CO? I guess those news stories are
early examples of Fake News. or maybe some people don't use boilers?
or boilers can break.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 07:04:25 -0000, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 02 Jan 2017 00:55:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson
Sword" wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 07:41:49 -0000, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:25:16 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hi,
Happy Holidays.

Would like your opinions on this.

Got my son and daughter-in-law a First Alert Smoke/CO alarm for their house.

They are both as non-technical as you can imagine.

Thought a bit about what to tell them to do if the Alarm goes off,
falsely. Apparently, this is a fairly "common" occurrence.

Alarm has a 10 year, non-replaceable, sealed battery.

Did a Google search, and these batteries are apparently Li-Ion.

The alarm also has a small slider switch, with a break-away tab in the
back, to permanently disable the
battery, and any ringing.

My guess is that at 3:00 AM, it's not a very good option for them to
start playing with.

Why do you think it will malfunction. I think that is pretty darn rare.

If the alarm goes off at 3AM, they should assume tthere is a fire or CO.

If fire, can smell smoke.

Not if you're asleep. And not if you're not home, as in the case of
the neighbor whose alarm had been going off occasionally for weeks.

I was talking about determining if there was a fire or if the alarm was broken.

If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.

Really, so no one ever dies of CO? I guess those news stories are
early examples of Fake News. or maybe some people don't use boilers?
or boilers can break.

And put CO outside.

--
If one of the questions in a GCSE exam was "express 4.8% as a fraction", most would write "low battery".

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 7:55:11 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.


That is a scary opinion.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 17:33:03 -0000, Thomas wrote:

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 7:55:11 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.


That is a scary opinion.

Is your boiler exhaust inside the house? Only really old fires did that.

--
It's strange, isn't it? You stand in the middle of a library and go "Aaaaaaagghhhh!!!!" and everyone just stares at you. But you do the same thing on an aeroplane, and everyone joins in.

On 1/2/2017 10:56 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 17:33:03 -0000, Thomas wrote:

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 7:55:11 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the
outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.


That is a scary opinion.

Is your boiler exhaust inside the house? Only really old fires did that.

If the CO alarm goes off, the answer might well be yes.
Things don't always work the way they should. We call that BROKEN.
Your advice turns broken into DEAD.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:56:58 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 17:33:03 -0000, Thomas wrote:

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 7:55:11 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
If CO, oh for goodness sake, boilers exhaust the gases into the outside world, not into the house. You don't need a CO alarm.


That is a scary opinion.

Is your boiler exhaust inside the house? Only really old fires did that.



There are deaths here in the US each year from CO poisoning and it's
not from "old fires". Typical example is a chimney used by a boiler,
furnace, water heater becomes obstructed, perhaps a rodent's nest.
People go to sleep and never wake up. I have a CO alarm in my home.
But you of course are free to do as you please.