On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 00:35:29 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 00:11:02 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 26 Dec 2016 23:36:32 -0500, micky
wrote:


Depends what bank handles the card. Some are AWFUL and I would never
deal with them, even as a brick and mortar bank.

Good chance your debit card had the same hold too, but you may not have
seen it.

By it's very nature, a Debit card has no hold because it takes the
money out of your account "immediately"

I agree, except that if the debit card people can decide how much I
really spent on gas, the CC people should be able to too. They usually
work for the same company.

So maybe they too take out 85 and then put back 54? But there's that
problem again. What if you only have $35 left in the debit card and you
need 34 dollars of gas? Are they going to refuse to let you get it? and
if the DC can handle this, whyy not the CC.

I was up to 3 questions so I called and she said the hold is put on the
by the store, not them (I guess that's obvious now that she said it) and
siad if I were down to my last 30 dollars I should pay in the store
instead of at the pump. They can put it through for 34 and then limit
the sale to 34. I hope I'm never down to my last 35 dollars. Even on
that trip in 1971, I never got that low, and I only started with 400..

I didnt' ask about debit cards, and she might not have known, but it
seems to me it would be the same.

I don't run that tight but I bet you can go in and put $20 or whatever
on the pump and that is all they will take from the account.
Correct.. At least that's how "pay at the pump" works here. "pay in
advance" or "pay before pumping" in the states may work differently,
particularly if the payment machine isn't linked to the pump to shut
it off at the amount paid for. Virtually all "pay at the pump" setups
here are live connected to the credit card company over the internet
at all times and work in "real time" - not "batch processing mode"

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 07:52:45 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 12/27/16 12:44 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 23:36:32 -0500, micky


Simple - a debit card cannot authorize if you have less money in the
account than you are asking for.. It is "direct bank transfer". It
simply will not authorize and turn on the pump.


Yes and no. The problem in low balance situations where the debit card
is tied to your checking account is that you can get authorization for
it one minute and the next minute a check arrives that you didn't take
into account. The hold from the card means you don't have enough money
to pay the check and it bounces.

Anyone with a debit card on a chequing account who doesn't have
overdraft protection is setting themselves up for a pile of grief.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:51:55 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/26/2016 10:42 PM, wrote:


Good chance your debit card had the same hold too, but you may not have
seen it.

By it's very nature, a Debit card has no hold because it takes the
money out of your account "immediately"

They put a hold on for gas at some places. If you have $20 in your
account and pump $30 in gas there would be a problem.


Except at least here in Canada, the technology at gas stations
controls the pump making it totally IMPOSSIBLE to pump more than you
paid for. Don't know how it works in some of the American backwaters.


I've seen the notification over the years, but don't recall where. BTW,
restaurants do that too, putting in enough hold to cover a tip. Your
hotel and car rental company will do the same.

Never seen a restaurant do it, but around here we don't have to
prepay at restaurants

Sure, you do, sort of. When the restaurant runs your card for the bill,
the have it approved for a lager amount as you will probably add a tip.
They add about 25% and adjust after you sign.


Nope, not with the more advanced Canadian banking system. They come to
your table with the credit / debit card machine, and you pay the bill,
including adding the tip if you want to, and either sign it right
there, or in most cases now enter your PIN for the chip-card, and it's
all done - virtually instantly.

We don't have a lot of "dine and dash" situations where people leave
without paying their bills. In areas where that happens, and in fast
food restaurants, you pay before you get your food - and no tips are
expected. If you choose to tip, it is usually in cash

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:57:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 12:44 AM, wrote:


This is AmEx, and they now have prepaid cards**, which are one form of
debit card.
You can get "prepaid credit cards" from Mastercard and Visa now too -
basically "gift cards"

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.
Here in Canada you can sometimes buy a $50 card for $45

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 17:17:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 12:35 AM, wrote:


I didnt' ask about debit cards, and she might not have known, but it
seems to me it would be the same.

I don't run that tight but I bet you can go in and put $20 or whatever
on the pump and that is all they will take from the account.


If you go in and prepay it should be that way. At the pump is a
different story.

http://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/d...ebit-card-hold
http://budgeting.thenest.com/problem...mps-23710.html
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...mp-091416.html
At the pump in Canada it is the same - your card is "pre-authorized"
for a certain amount - the card is "locked" so no other transaction
that could excede your card limit can occur before the current
transaction is finished, and the account is released with the actual
amount charged to your card as soon as the transaction is finished
(the pump shut off by you, or the maximum authorized purchace reached)

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 17:38:16 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:57:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 12/27/2016 12:44 AM, wrote:


This is AmEx, and they now have prepaid cards**, which are one form of
debit card.
You can get "prepaid credit cards" from Mastercard and Visa now too -
basically "gift cards"

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.


That's ridiculous. I was going to give a gift certificate for a sports
ticket service once, and they *charged* for the gift certificate. It
was too late for me to get anything else, but I never did that again.

About 30 years ago. Ticketron?
Ticketron charges you a service fee to sell you a ticket too.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 21:28:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 6:50 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:


My debit card has the ability to authorize payment if you don't have
enough cash in your checking account. This is tied to a savings account
but you are charged a 'convenience fee' for this feature which I *think*
is $12.50.


I eliminated that. I'd rather be denied than spend an extra $12.50.
Some banks provide overdraft protection at no extra cost on some
accounts. They likely pay a little less interest on your deposit, but
when is the last time you got any reasonable interest on a bank
account???

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:33:51 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 00:35:29 -0500, wrote:


I don't run that tight but I bet you can go in and put $20 or whatever
on the pump and that is all they will take from the account.


Correct.. At least that's how "pay at the pump" works here. "pay in
advance" or "pay before pumping" in the states may work differently,
particularly if the payment machine isn't linked to the pump to shut
it off at the amount paid for. Virtually all "pay at the pump" setups
here are live connected to the credit card company over the internet
at all times and work in "real time" - not "batch processing mode"

I have not seen a pump that could not be loaded with an amount from
the store in 25 years, even in remote little country stores.
The problem with a debit in a pay at the pump situation is they can't
charge you in real time and they do not know how much money is
available until they attempt the transaction. If you pump $20 and only
have 15, they are stuck so they put a hold on a big number to verify
it is there and charge it later, freeing up the excess. The problem is
it might be a day later. I don't understand why that is not immediate
either. It is certainly not a hardware limitation.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:49:16 -0500, wrote:

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.
Here in Canada you can sometimes buy a $50 card for $45

Publix will sell you a $50 Visa card for $40 on a special now and then
but they still tack on $5 for processing so it is $45. That may be
what you are seeing
A much better deal is the $50 Shell gas card for $40 and no fee. It os
pretty much the only way I buy gas. I get a gas card every time I am
in the store when the deal is on. It is a far better return on
investment than anything else I do. (25% immediately or as soon as I
need gas)

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 00:20:47 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:33:51 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 00:35:29 -0500, wrote:


I don't run that tight but I bet you can go in and put $20 or whatever
on the pump and that is all they will take from the account.


Correct.. At least that's how "pay at the pump" works here. "pay in
advance" or "pay before pumping" in the states may work differently,
particularly if the payment machine isn't linked to the pump to shut
it off at the amount paid for. Virtually all "pay at the pump" setups
here are live connected to the credit card company over the internet
at all times and work in "real time" - not "batch processing mode"

I have not seen a pump that could not be loaded with an amount from
the store in 25 years, even in remote little country stores.
The problem with a debit in a pay at the pump situation is they can't
charge you in real time and they do not know how much money is
available until they attempt the transaction. If you pump $20 and only
have 15, they are stuck so they put a hold on a big number to verify
it is there and charge it later, freeing up the excess. The problem is
it might be a day later. I don't understand why that is not immediate
either. It is certainly not a hardware limitation.
Must be the American banking system.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:03:19 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 4:57:07 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/27/2016 12:44 AM, wrote:


This is AmEx, and they now have prepaid cards**, which are one form of
debit card.
You can get "prepaid credit cards" from Mastercard and Visa now too -
basically "gift cards"

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.

You have to look carefully at all the fees and charges with any of those
gift cards, prepaid debit cards, etc. Like you say, typically they hit
you with an upfront fee right off the bat. Then some charge a monthly
sevice fee of a couple bucks, whether you use it or not. They also
charge for some transactions, eg at ATMs, etc. STore gift cards like
HD, etc typically are good for the full amount and don't charge extra
fees, but I'd be careful looking at them too.

BabiesRUs seemed to tell me that there were no hidden costs. It was a
present and they probably spent it all the first day, considering how
much babies cost, but I didn't want it sitting in their wallet getting
smaller and smaller.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:50:08 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 6:52:53 AM UTC-6, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:

On 12/27/16 12:44 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 23:36:32 -0500, micky


Simple - a debit card cannot authorize if you have less money in the
account than you are asking for.. It is "direct bank transfer". It
simply will not authorize and turn on the pump.


Yes and no. The problem in low balance situations where the debit card
is tied to your checking account is that you can get authorization for
it one minute and the next minute a check arrives that you didn't take
into account. The hold from the card means you don't have enough money
to pay the check and it bounces.


My debit card has the ability to authorize payment if you don't have
enough cash in your checking account. This is tied to a savings account
but you are charged a 'convenience fee' for this feature which I *think*
is $12.50.

They offered me somthing like that at BOA but I was afraid I'd use it by
accident if I had it.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:55:20 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 17:38:16 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:57:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 12/27/2016 12:44 AM, wrote:


This is AmEx, and they now have prepaid cards**, which are one form of
debit card.
You can get "prepaid credit cards" from Mastercard and Visa now too -
basically "gift cards"

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.


That's ridiculous. I was going to give a gift certificate for a sports
ticket service once, and they *charged* for the gift certificate. It
was too late for me to get anything else, but I never did that again.

About 30 years ago. Ticketron?
Ticketron charges you a service fee to sell you a ticket too.

Exactly. I knew that and accepted that, but to then charge for the
right to get charged was too much.

On 12/27/2016 11:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 21:28:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 6:50 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:


My debit card has the ability to authorize payment if you don't have
enough cash in your checking account. This is tied to a savings account
but you are charged a 'convenience fee' for this feature which I *think*
is $12.50.


I eliminated that. I'd rather be denied than spend an extra $12.50.
Some banks provide overdraft protection at no extra cost on some
accounts. They likely pay a little less interest on your deposit, but
when is the last time you got any reasonable interest on a bank
account???


Hey, I made 30 cents on my savings last month. I've ot looked into it
for some time, but in the past you could link accounts and they would do
an automatic transfer from savings to checking for a nominal fee.

On 12/27/2016 11:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:51:55 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/26/2016 10:42 PM, wrote:


Good chance your debit card had the same hold too, but you may not have
seen it.

By it's very nature, a Debit card has no hold because it takes the
money out of your account "immediately"

They put a hold on for gas at some places. If you have $20 in your
account and pump $30 in gas there would be a problem.


Except at least here in Canada, the technology at gas stations
controls the pump making it totally IMPOSSIBLE to pump more than you
paid for. Don't know how it works in some of the American backwaters.

Some stations have that. Most, you slide the card and pump what you
want so they have no idea how much yu will be charging. Inside you can
pay in advance.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 12:22:00 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 11:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 21:28:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/27/2016 6:50 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:


My debit card has the ability to authorize payment if you don't have
enough cash in your checking account. This is tied to a savings account
but you are charged a 'convenience fee' for this feature which I *think*
is $12.50.


I eliminated that. I'd rather be denied than spend an extra $12.50.
Some banks provide overdraft protection at no extra cost on some
accounts. They likely pay a little less interest on your deposit, but
when is the last time you got any reasonable interest on a bank
account???


Hey, I made 30 cents on my savings last month. I've ot looked into it
for some time, but in the past you could link accounts and they would do
an automatic transfer from savings to checking for a nominal fee.

When the difference between saving and interest checking is about a
quarter of a percent, it is worth keeping several thousand in your
checking, just so you do not have to worry about crap like this.

On 12/27/2016 10:37 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Anyone with a debit card on a chequing account who doesn't have
overdraft protection is setting themselves up for a pile of grief.


Since you HAVE to spend money you don't have?

On 12/27/2016 10:49 PM, wrote:

[snip]

We were going to send them to the out of state grandkids for Xmas, but
they charge $5 for a $50 card. They were happy with Amazon cards.
Here in Canada you can sometimes buy a $50 card for $45


I buy gift cards at Kroger. They're sold at face value, but you also get
points for a discount on fuel.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Wouldn't it be funny if Elvis came back instead of Jesus?

On 12/27/2016 11:20 PM, wrote:

[snip]

I have not seen a pump that could not be loaded with an amount from
the store in 25 years, even in remote little country stores.
The problem with a debit in a pay at the pump situation is they can't
charge you in real time and they do not know how much money is
available until they attempt the transaction. If you pump $20 and only
have 15, they are stuck so they put a hold on a big number to verify
it is there and charge it later, freeing up the excess. The problem is
it might be a day later. I don't understand why that is not immediate
either. It is certainly not a hardware limitation.


Before Christmas one year, I was getting fuel at a Wal-Mart. They were
offering a 10-cent-a-gallon discount with one of their cards. I went
inside and bought a card.

The pump knew how much was on that card. It slowed down for the last
gallon or so, and stopped at the right time.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Wouldn't it be funny if Elvis came back instead of Jesus?

On 12/27/2016 11:26 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Publix will sell you a $50 Visa card for $40 on a special now and then
but they still tack on $5 for processing so it is $45. That may be
what you are seeing
A much better deal is the $50 Shell gas card for $40 and no fee. It os
pretty much the only way I buy gas. I get a gas card every time I am
in the store when the deal is on. It is a far better return on
investment than anything else I do. (25% immediately or as soon as I
need gas)


I have a friend who buys a lot of cat and dog food at Brookshire's. They
give fuel points, which can reduce the price to as low as 1 cent per
gallon (limit 30 gallons). She often gets 30 gallons for 30 cents.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Wouldn't it be funny if Elvis came back instead of Jesus?

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:41 PM UTC-5, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/27/2016 11:20 PM, wrote:

[snip]

I have not seen a pump that could not be loaded with an amount from
the store in 25 years, even in remote little country stores.
The problem with a debit in a pay at the pump situation is they can't
charge you in real time and they do not know how much money is
available until they attempt the transaction. If you pump $20 and only
have 15, they are stuck so they put a hold on a big number to verify
it is there and charge it later, freeing up the excess. The problem is
it might be a day later. I don't understand why that is not immediate
either. It is certainly not a hardware limitation.


Before Christmas one year, I was getting fuel at a Wal-Mart. They were
offering a 10-cent-a-gallon discount with one of their cards. I went
inside and bought a card.

The pump knew how much was on that card. It slowed down for the last
gallon or so, and stopped at the right time.


I used to buy the discounted Walmart cards. The lines at the pumps were
always too busy to be worth the trouble. I can pay just about the same price
at BJ's and get in and out quicker.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 19:35:26 -0600, Sam E
wrote:

On 12/27/2016 10:37 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Anyone with a debit card on a chequing account who doesn't have
overdraft protection is setting themselves up for a pile of grief.


Since you HAVE to spend money you don't have?
No, but an overdraft gets EXPENSIVE

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:48:10 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:51:55 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/26/2016 10:42 PM, wrote:


Good chance your debit card had the same hold too, but you may not have
seen it.

By it's very nature, a Debit card has no hold because it takes the
money out of your account "immediately"

They put a hold on for gas at some places. If you have $20 in your
account and pump $30 in gas there would be a problem.


Except at least here in Canada, the technology at gas stations
controls the pump making it totally IMPOSSIBLE to pump more than you
paid for. Don't know how it works in some of the American backwaters.

I would go in and discuss it with the gas station, and even complain,
except,

a) the guy there won't know anything about it.
b) if I get a stupid answer, I'll get angry.
c) just as I never get down to zero I can make sure I never get down to
50.
d) I'm happy they are finally printing receipts. Several times over
weeks the pump had no paper or something, and I was about to complain
about that. But it seems to be fixed.

Micky

I've seen the notification over the years, but don't recall where. BTW,
restaurants do that too, putting in enough hold to cover a tip. Your
hotel and car rental company will do the same.

Never seen a restaurant do it, but around here we don't have to
prepay at restaurants

Sure, you do, sort of. When the restaurant runs your card for the bill,
the have it approved for a lager amount as you will probably add a tip.
They add about 25% and adjust after you sign.


Nope, not with the more advanced Canadian banking system. They come to
your table with the credit / debit card machine, and you pay the bill,
including adding the tip if you want to, and either sign it right
there, or in most cases now enter your PIN for the chip-card, and it's
all done - virtually instantly.

We don't have a lot of "dine and dash" situations where people leave
without paying their bills. In areas where that happens, and in fast
food restaurants, you pay before you get your food - and no tips are
expected. If you choose to tip, it is usually in cash