The question about sticking a 20a breaker on an overloaded 15a circuit got
me to wondering.

Last year I installed an invisible dog fence. The only outlet in the garage
already had an extension cord in it that ran to the garage door opener. So,
I ran #14 from the existing outlet (which I replaced with a GFCI) and put a
new outlet on the ceiling for the garage door opener.

When I was actually connecting up the wire, I realized the existing wire
#12; I checked the breaker and sure enough it was a 20a. I was fooled since
it was a 15a outlet, and code required a 20a outlet on a 20a circuit since
it was the only outlet on the circuit. (at least that is my understanding)
Since I didn't want to redo what I had already done, and I couldn't image
why I would ever need 20a on the circuit, I replaced the 20a breaker with a
15a.

Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker? I can't think of a single situation where leaving the 20a breaker
would have been unsafe. Nothing but the garage door opener will ever plug
into the ceiling outlet (with the #14), and it is all exposed to the air, so
it is unlikely to overheat dangerously even if I did. Whatcha think?

"Toller"

I was fooled since
it was a 15a outlet, and code required a 20a outlet on a 20a circuit since
it was the only outlet on the circuit. (at least that is my
understanding)

This doesn't sound correct, but there are lots of codes out there. There is
little physical difference between a 20A and 15A outlet - only the existance
of the hortizontal spade is different. The codes related to these outlets
are basically there to prevent putting a 20A appliance on a 15A circuit.

Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker?

I would have installed a 15A breaker based soley on the existance of 14ga
wire in the circuit. You'd probably be fine, but why ever bother
questioning all the safety and research that sits behind these codes? You
never know what someone will do 10 years after you sell the place. That
said, I use 12 ga wire for both 15 and 20 A circuits. It just isn't that
much extra work and money.

- Nate

On 22-Apr-2004, "Toller" wrote:

Nothing but the garage door opener will ever plug
into the ceiling outlet (with the #14),

This is only true if you have complete control over the garage and
never let anyone in it for any reason (like a contractor doing
maintenance or repairs etc) _and_ you never sell your house. As
soon as you sell your house, it's a problem.

Downgrading the breaker is safe. Upgrading to a GFCI is also a
good idea (required by code where I live - all garage and outdoor
recepticles).

Mike

Canada requires 20A recepticles on 120V/20A circuits, but USA generally
allows 15A for general purpose circuits w/ multiple recepticles?

"Nate B" wrote in message
...

"Toller"

I was fooled since
it was a 15a outlet, and code required a 20a outlet on a 20a circuit
since
it was the only outlet on the circuit. (at least that is my
understanding)

This doesn't sound correct, but there are lots of codes out there. There
is
little physical difference between a 20A and 15A outlet - only the
existance
of the hortizontal spade is different. The codes related to these outlets
are basically there to prevent putting a 20A appliance on a 15A circuit.

Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker?

I would have installed a 15A breaker based soley on the existance of 14ga
wire in the circuit. You'd probably be fine, but why ever bother
questioning all the safety and research that sits behind these codes? You
never know what someone will do 10 years after you sell the place. That
said, I use 12 ga wire for both 15 and 20 A circuits. It just isn't
that
much extra work and money.

- Nate

Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker? I can't think of a single situation where leaving the 20a breaker
would have been unsafe. Nothing but the garage door opener will ever plug
into the ceiling outlet (with the #14), and it is all exposed to the air, so
it is unlikely to overheat dangerously even if I did. Whatcha think?

I think you knew the answer or you wouldn't have replaced the breaker.
And since nothing will ever be plugged in except the opener, I assume
that means you'll live in the house until you die, preventing anyone
from using the outlet for anything else, and have the house bulldozed
upon your death, correct?

Jeff

"Jeff Cochran" wrote in message
news
Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker? I can't think of a single situation where leaving the 20a
breaker
would have been unsafe. Nothing but the garage door opener will ever
plug
into the ceiling outlet (with the #14), and it is all exposed to the air,
so
it is unlikely to overheat dangerously even if I did. Whatcha think?

I think you knew the answer or you wouldn't have replaced the breaker.
And since nothing will ever be plugged in except the opener, I assume
that means you'll live in the house until you die, preventing anyone
from using the outlet for anything else, and have the house bulldozed
upon your death, correct?

Of course I know the code requirement; that is why I changed it. To be
dangerous though, someonw would have to use the ceiling outlet, they would
have to have a 20a appliance with a 15a plug on it, and the wire would have
to overheat despite being exposed. All of these are unlikely; together they
are nearly impossible. So why should it be dangerous?
(I also had a 22a water heater running on #12 for 20 years, until I found
and replaced it. I didn't check to see if it got hot, but it never started
a fire.)

On 23-Apr-2004, "Toller" wrote:

they would have to have a 20a appliance with a 15a plug on it

Or plug two 12A items into it and run them simultaneously. I can
do that easily with power tools.

Mike

- Michael Daly -
Or plug two 12A items into it and run them simultaneously. I can
do that easily with power tools.

- Nehmo -
Then maybe the breaker will trip.

Codes require a rated outlet to have a circuit (breaker, wires, etc.)
big enough to accommodate it. A higher rated circuit can have a lower
rated outlet on it. Lots of 20 A circuits have 15 A outlets on them.
And that doesn't mean you should load every outlet to the max. Since a
single branch circuit can have several outlets, you can overload almost
any breaker without overloading its outlets.

This site discusses some of the issues:
http://www.codecheck.com/numberoutlets.htm
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:15:02 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Jeff Cochran" wrote in message
news
Did I go to an unnecessary expense? Should I have just left the 20a
breaker? I can't think of a single situation where leaving the 20a
breaker
would have been unsafe. Nothing but the garage door opener will ever
plug
into the ceiling outlet (with the #14), and it is all exposed to the air,
so
it is unlikely to overheat dangerously even if I did. Whatcha think?

I think you knew the answer or you wouldn't have replaced the breaker.
And since nothing will ever be plugged in except the opener, I assume
that means you'll live in the house until you die, preventing anyone
from using the outlet for anything else, and have the house bulldozed
upon your death, correct?

Of course I know the code requirement; that is why I changed it. To be
dangerous though, someonw would have to use the ceiling outlet, they would
have to have a 20a appliance with a 15a plug on it, and the wire would have
to overheat despite being exposed. All of these are unlikely; together they
are nearly impossible. So why should it be dangerous?

Or, they could simply have a 5 amp appliance on a 15 amp cord/plug
that shorts internally, causing the slightly corroded connection at
the original box to overheat and draw 19.5 amps, setting a fire and
never tripping a breaker.

(I also had a 22a water heater running on #12 for 20 years, until I found
and replaced it. I didn't check to see if it got hot, but it never started
a fire.)

Well, it's not my house and hopefully never will be, so follow your
instincts to whatever end you reach.

Jeff