Hi, all. I'm a first-time poster looking for some advice.

I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. We don't want to do anything permanent or
terribly expensive (more than $250). The idea I came up with is to
put in ceiling-mounted track lighting using a cord with a simple
in-line switch running down to an outlet over the counter in question.
The track could be positioned so that two lights are shining on the
counter and one is over the stove. When we move out, if we wanted to
take the lighting with us, we could patch whatever screw holes were
left in the ceiling (which is plaster). The wall outlet is in a good
place for this plan, and most of the cord could run along cabinets and
window frames so it shouldn't look too unsightly. The ceiling is 8
feet 3 inches high.

I haven't done much home repair work, and I've never bought or
installed track lighting before, so I have some questions. I looked
at www.lampsplus.com and picked out what looks to my ignorant eye
like it should be a complete and workable system:

Juno 4 foot track (line voltage) $27.99
Juno Cord and Plug Power Feed $24.99
Juno PAR30 Flatback Track heads ea. (Uses 50 watt halogen
bulb).


Now for the questions:

1) Does this seem like a reasonable way to go, or am I missing
something?

2) How heavy are these systems? Do I have to have a beam to screw it
into to?

3) I'm more concerned about simplicity and initial cost than long-run
energy savings, so I have ruled out the low-voltage systems, but am I
overlooking some other advantage they have?

4) Does my choice of track heads make sense for the application? Is
the light going to be bright enough and widely dispersed enough to
work under? (If that depends on the specific bulbs I use, what would
you recommend? And by the way, what does the "30" mean in PAR 30?)

5) Are there any common mistakes to avoid when installing (other than
forgetting the shadow issue)?

Many thanks for reading--with your help we won't need to keep the
bandaid box so close to the chopping board any more!

Mark

Quidnunc wrote:
Hi, all. I'm a first-time poster looking for some advice.

I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. We don't want to do anything permanent or
terribly expensive (more than $250). The idea I came up with is to
put in ceiling-mounted track lighting using a cord with a simple
in-line switch running down to an outlet over the counter in question.
The track could be positioned so that two lights are shining on the
counter and one is over the stove. When we move out, if we wanted to
take the lighting with us, we could patch whatever screw holes were
left in the ceiling (which is plaster). The wall outlet is in a good
place for this plan, and most of the cord could run along cabinets and
window frames so it shouldn't look too unsightly. The ceiling is 8
feet 3 inches high.

I haven't done much home repair work, and I've never bought or
installed track lighting before, so I have some questions. I looked
at www.lampsplus.com and picked out what looks to my ignorant eye
like it should be a complete and workable system:

Juno 4 foot track (line voltage) $27.99
Juno Cord and Plug Power Feed $24.99
Juno PAR30 Flatback Track heads ea. (Uses 50 watt halogen
bulb).


Now for the questions:

1) Does this seem like a reasonable way to go, or am I missing
something?

2) How heavy are these systems? Do I have to have a beam to screw it
into to?


Not heavy at all. You can attach the track to the ceiling drywall with toggle bolts.


3) I'm more concerned about simplicity and initial cost than long-run
energy savings, so I have ruled out the low-voltage systems, but am I
overlooking some other advantage they have?

Not that I can see.


4) Does my choice of track heads make sense for the application? Is
the light going to be bright enough and widely dispersed enough to
work under? (If that depends on the specific bulbs I use, what would
you recommend? And by the way, what does the "30" mean in PAR 30?)

We have track lighting throughout our home (Lightolier) and are very
unhappy with it. The problem is that the individual lights are too
directional. There is light where they point but its not well lit
elsewhere. And this is not because of a shortage of fixtures. I
haven't counted them but I'd guess that we have over 200 individual
track fixtures. We have at least 15 track fixtures in our kitchen and
there are still some places that need light. For the problem you
described it may be a workable solution but don't get fixtures that are
directional. Look for fixtures with lamps that protrude beyond the hood
and use flood, not spot lamps. Because of the need for so many lamps I
don't believe that track lighting is at all efficient. More watts are
dissipated than if I just hung bulbs from the ceiling. My aesthetics
wouldn't be bothered too much, but the idea doesn't appeal to my wife.

5) Are there any common mistakes to avoid when installing (other than
forgetting the shadow issue)?

Easy to install. It does help to have an extra pair of hands to manage
a long section of track when you're attaching it. It's not heavy, just
awkward.

Good luck,
RB

Many thanks for reading--with your help we won't need to keep the
bandaid box so close to the chopping board any more!

Mark

(Quidnunc) wrote:
I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it.
snip

Get a halogen torchiere lamp at HD for $10. The 300w light will light
up a small room enough to operate in there.

RB



Quidnunc wrote:
Hi, all. I'm a first-time poster looking for some advice.

I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. We don't want to do anything permanent or
terribly expensive (more than $250). The idea I came up with is to
put in ceiling-mounted track lighting using a cord with a simple
in-line switch running down to an outlet over the counter in question.
The track could be positioned so that two lights are shining on the
counter and one is over the stove. When we move out, if we wanted to
take the lighting with us, we could patch whatever screw holes were
left in the ceiling (which is plaster). The wall outlet is in a good
place for this plan, and most of the cord could run along cabinets and
window frames so it shouldn't look too unsightly. The ceiling is 8
feet 3 inches high.

I haven't done much home repair work, and I've never bought or
installed track lighting before, so I have some questions. I looked
at www.lampsplus.com and picked out what looks to my ignorant eye
like it should be a complete and workable system:

Juno 4 foot track (line voltage) $27.99
Juno Cord and Plug Power Feed $24.99
Juno PAR30 Flatback Track heads ea. (Uses 50 watt halogen
bulb).


Now for the questions:

1) Does this seem like a reasonable way to go, or am I missing
something?

2) How heavy are these systems? Do I have to have a beam to screw it
into to?


Not heavy at all. You can attach the track to the ceiling drywall with
toggle bolts.


3) I'm more concerned about simplicity and initial cost than long-run
energy savings, so I have ruled out the low-voltage systems, but am I
overlooking some other advantage they have?

Not that I can see.


4) Does my choice of track heads make sense for the application? Is
the light going to be bright enough and widely dispersed enough to
work under? (If that depends on the specific bulbs I use, what would
you recommend? And by the way, what does the "30" mean in PAR 30?)

We have track lighting throughout our home (Lightolier) and are very
unhappy with it. The problem is that the individual lights are too
directional. There is light where they point but its not well lit
elsewhere. And this is not because of a shortage of fixtures. I
haven't counted them but I'd guess that we have over 200 individual
track fixtures. We have at least 15 track fixtures in our kitchen and
there are still some places that need light. For the problem you
described it may be a workable solution but don't get fixtures that are
directional. Look for fixtures with lamps that protrude beyond the hood
and use flood, not spot lamps. Because of the need for so many lamps I
don't believe that track lighting is at all efficient. More watts are
dissipated than if I just hung bulbs from the ceiling. My aesthetics
wouldn't be bothered too much, but the idea doesn't appeal to my wife.

5) Are there any common mistakes to avoid when installing (other than
forgetting the shadow issue)?

Easy to install. It does help to have an extra pair of hands to manage
a long section of track when you're attaching it. It's not heavy, just
awkward.

Good luck,
RB

Many thanks for reading--with your help we won't need to keep the
bandaid box so close to the chopping board any more!

Mark


Track lighting is great when you have many things you want to emphasize,
light-wise. Have you considered a simple 4' 2-light decorative kitchen fixture,
and installing a cord & plug on it? A "2-light 4' wrap" as they call it would
run you a lot less and still only leave 2 tiny holes wherever it was mounted.

Another option is undercabinet flourescent lights. They're simple, plug in, and
put light exactly where you need it.

What about the existing ceiling light? Is there any way to retrofit it, or
replace to with a more appropriate unit?

snipped
Juno 4 foot track (line voltage) $27.99
Juno Cord and Plug Power Feed $24.99
Juno PAR30 Flatback Track heads ea. (Uses 50 watt halogen
bulb).

My personal opinion on track it is for people who do not know what they
want. some humor intended.
As it has been said track is directional. So at something less than 8 feet
high, your looking at circles of light on the counter. Oh, by the way it is
considered against the building code to have anything hanging down below
7'6". It is your apartment and I doubt strongly that the building inspector
is going to show up.

Do you have a light in the ceiling? If so replace it with a 4 foot 2 tube
fluorescent fixture, like one of the posters recommended. You can still use
the cord and pull chain if you want. Guarantee that this will brighten it
up! Look mom no shadows.

In my kitchen I have 3 recessed cans over the counter and 2 round
flourescents in the ceiling. They are on different switches so I can have
different levels of light. I hate dimmers. All of the cans have 100 watt
compact fluorescents in them.



Now for the questions:

1) Does this seem like a reasonable way to go, or am I missing
something?

2) How heavy are these systems? Do I have to have a beam to screw it
into to?

Toggle bolts or the new screw in wall board fastners are fine.

3) I'm more concerned about simplicity and initial cost than long-run
energy savings, so I have ruled out the low-voltage systems, but am I
overlooking some other advantage they have?

Halogen is watt in and watt out, plus the heat that they produce,
Fluorescents are watt in and usually 2x watts out in light output. Light is
really measured in lumens. Take a compact fluorescent, draws 28 watts and
puts out a 100 watt equalivant. Do not get as hot and draws less energy



4) Does my choice of track heads make sense for the application? Is
the light going to be bright enough and widely dispersed enough to
work under? (If that depends on the specific bulbs I use, what would
you recommend? And by the way, what does the "30" mean in PAR 30?)

Par 30 is the size of the bulb. There are par 48, like the incandescent for
outdoor floods and spots. There are Par 20 a little bigger than a normal
bulb and so on. Regular incandencets are called A bulbs.

5) Are there any common mistakes to avoid when installing (other than
forgetting the shadow issue)?

Depending on how you cook cleaning can be a issue. Lots of frying is well
lots of frying if you do not have a vent.

Many thanks for reading--with your help we won't need to keep the
bandaid box so close to the chopping board any more!

Mark

I second the vote for two or four tube fluorescent fixture with diffuser
cover - to replace the ceiling fixture with. They are cheap, and hardly
worth taking when you move. For certain needed improvements you may be able
to get the landlord to take it off your rent if you supply the labor. If so,
get the better ones, with solid state power transformer.

"Quidnunc" wrote in message
om...
Hi, all. I'm a first-time poster looking for some advice.

I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. We don't want to do anything permanent or
terribly expensive (more than $250). The idea I came up with is to
put in ceiling-mounted track lighting using a cord with a simple
in-line switch running down to an outlet over the counter in question.
The track could be positioned so that two lights are shining on the
counter and one is over the stove. When we move out, if we wanted to
take the lighting with us, we could patch whatever screw holes were
left in the ceiling (which is plaster). The wall outlet is in a good
place for this plan, and most of the cord could run along cabinets and
window frames so it shouldn't look too unsightly. The ceiling is 8
feet 3 inches high.

I haven't done much home repair work, and I've never bought or
installed track lighting before, so I have some questions. I looked
at www.lampsplus.com and picked out what looks to my ignorant eye
like it should be a complete and workable system:

Juno 4 foot track (line voltage) $27.99
Juno Cord and Plug Power Feed $24.99
Juno PAR30 Flatback Track heads ea. (Uses 50 watt halogen
bulb).


Now for the questions:

1) Does this seem like a reasonable way to go, or am I missing
something?

2) How heavy are these systems? Do I have to have a beam to screw it
into to?

3) I'm more concerned about simplicity and initial cost than long-run
energy savings, so I have ruled out the low-voltage systems, but am I
overlooking some other advantage they have?

4) Does my choice of track heads make sense for the application? Is
the light going to be bright enough and widely dispersed enough to
work under? (If that depends on the specific bulbs I use, what would
you recommend? And by the way, what does the "30" mean in PAR 30?)

5) Are there any common mistakes to avoid when installing (other than
forgetting the shadow issue)?

Many thanks for reading--with your help we won't need to keep the
bandaid box so close to the chopping board any more!

Mark

Thanks for the answers I've gotten so far. I'll keep checking back in
case anyone else has an opinion about this.

To respond to some of the suggestions I've gotten:

1) Under cabinet fluorescent lights won't work, because the only
cabinet in the area is over the stove, so I think it would be too much
bother to keep it free of grease. There is no cabinet over the
counter (it runs in front of a window).

2) There is no good place to put a floor lamp, so the torchiere idea
is out.

3) The existing fixture is for incandescent bulbs, and it's
positioned nearly in the center of the room, about 8-9 feet away from
where I'm thinking about installing the track. Retrofitting it might
be a possibility, but I think I would still have a shadow issue since
the light would be well behind anyone working at the stove or the
counter. It also sounds like more work than the track system, which
seems like it would basically involve just putting in two screws,
running the cord, and plugging it in.

4) I had not thought about using a "2 light 4' wrap." I did a google
search to try to find a picture, but I didn't come up with anything.
If anyone can give me more info about where these can be obtained and
what they look like, I'll consider the suggestion.

Thanks again for the answers I've' gotten so far. I really appreciate
it.

Mark

From: (Quidnunc)
Date: 1/16/2004 11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for the answers I've gotten so far. I'll keep checking back in
case anyone else has an opinion about this.

To respond to some of the suggestions I've gotten:

1) Under cabinet fluorescent lights won't work, because the only
cabinet in the area is over the stove, so I think it would be too much
bother to keep it free of grease. There is no cabinet over the
counter (it runs in front of a window).

2) There is no good place to put a floor lamp, so the torchiere idea
is out.

3) The existing fixture is for incandescent bulbs, and it's
positioned nearly in the center of the room, about 8-9 feet away from
where I'm thinking about installing the track. Retrofitting it might
be a possibility, but I think I would still have a shadow issue since
the light would be well behind anyone working at the stove or the
counter. It also sounds like more work than the track system, which
seems like it would basically involve just putting in two screws,
running the cord, and plugging it in.

4) I had not thought about using a "2 light 4' wrap." I did a google
search to try to find a picture, but I didn't come up with anything.
If anyone can give me more info about where these can be obtained and
what they look like, I'll consider the suggestion.

Thanks again for the answers I've' gotten so far. I really appreciate
it.

Mark

A typical flourescent light which has 2 bulbs, is 4' long, 1' wide about 4-6"
deep. The "wrap" refers to the diffuser which often is like a plastic bubble,
so all you see is an illuminated white plastic bubble.

They're common, typical fixtures found at any home improvement of lighting
fixture store.

You may want 2, and if you intend to take them with you, why not cord-and-plug
connect them to the existing incandescent fixture using those socket-to-plug
adaptors in the light bulb sockets?

Another thing - track lighting even in a livingroom or bedroom tends to attract
a lot of dust - they're maintainence cleaning nightmares. I shudder to think
what a track light would look like in a kitchen after a couple of months.

Would it help to generally brighten up the kitchen? Paint is cheap and even
stick on floor tiles aren't very expensive--I paid like $17 for 45 square
feet a couple of weeks ago. You can even stick them onto the kitchen
counters if you use a cutting board under them.
I started with a 1950's-style kitchen with dark paneling, fake dark
brickwork vinel floors, dark fake wood cabinets, all that. After about $100
worth of material, it's a lot brighter and even looks bigger.

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On 16 Jan 2004 11:50:50 -0800, (Quidnunc) wrote:

Hi, all. I'm a first-time poster looking for some advice.

I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. We don't want to do anything permanent or
terribly expensive (more than $250). The idea I came up with is to
put in ceiling-mounted track lighting using a cord with a simple
in-line switch running down to an outlet over the counter in question.

If I had convenient outlets, I'd paste up a couple little stick
fluorescents under the cupboards. They're cheap, light, and many can
simply be attached with adhesive pads. The problem with
ceiling-mounted *anything* is that when you're working at counter or
stove, you're probably shadowing the work surface.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:13:08 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On 16 Jan 2004 11:50:50 -0800, (Quidnunc) wrote:
I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. [cut]

If I had convenient outlets, I'd paste up a couple little stick
fluorescents under the cupboards. They're cheap, light, and many can
simply be attached with adhesive pads. The problem with
ceiling-mounted *anything* is that when you're working at counter or
stove, you're probably shadowing the work surface.

Agreed: I put these over my stove and my sink in the kitchen,
wonderful task lighting.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:13:08 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On 16 Jan 2004 11:50:50 -0800, (Quidnunc) wrote:
I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. [cut]

If I had convenient outlets, I'd paste up a couple little stick
fluorescents under the cupboards. They're cheap, light, and many can
simply be attached with adhesive pads. The problem with
ceiling-mounted *anything* is that when you're working at counter or
stove, you're probably shadowing the work surface.

Agreed: I put these over my stove and my sink in the kitchen,
wonderful task lighting.
Think bigger- if there is a ceiling fixture mounted in a conventional
octagonal box, take it down and mount a 4-bulb flourescent shop light. Low
current draw, doesn't weigh much, and when you move out, all you have to do
is patch a few screw holes where it was mounted to the joists, and reinstall
the old fixture.

aem sends...

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:13:17 GMT, "ameijers"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:13:08 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On 16 Jan 2004 11:50:50 -0800, (Quidnunc) wrote:
I desperately need to improve the lighting in the kitchen in a rented
apartment. It is too dark to work comfortably at the stove or at the
counter next to it. [cut]

If I had convenient outlets, I'd paste up a couple little stick
fluorescents under the cupboards. They're cheap, light, and many can
simply be attached with adhesive pads. The problem with
ceiling-mounted *anything* is that when you're working at counter or
stove, you're probably shadowing the work surface.

Agreed: I put these over my stove and my sink in the kitchen,
wonderful task lighting.
Think bigger- if there is a ceiling fixture mounted in a conventional
octagonal box, take it down and mount a 4-bulb flourescent shop light. Low
current draw, doesn't weigh much, and when you move out, all you have to do
is patch a few screw holes where it was mounted to the joists, and reinstall
the old fixture.

I did this, too, and wow, what a difference. But I still also like
the flourescent tube lights over the stove and kitchen sink, plus I
leave those on when not in the kitchen, turning off the 4-bulb
overhead flourescent ceiling fixture.