On 16 Nov 2003, Tom Rodman wrote:

(snip)
One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat
litter might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that
the litter might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an
expensive repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the
eventual hard blockage.

Comments?

Flushing the actual cat crap down the drain shouldn't be a
problem (no more than larger human stuff) but I would *never*
flush litter down the toilet. You have it figured right, it is
likely clumping up in at least one place. It would be the same
as flushing sand or gravel, IMO.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

Some types of litter is said to be flushable. All others are a big no
no. I might also suggest that even the "flushable" types have been
questioned and I don't think it is a good idea to even allow these.

Personally I have two cats. I buy the rolls of plastic bags that they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores. Once in the bag it goes
in the trash, no smell and no problems.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Tom Rodman" ] wrote in message
l.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat
crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

--
regards,
Tom Rodman
pls run for my address:
perl -e 'print unpack("u", "1\:6UP\,\$\!T\F\]D\;6\%N\+F\-O\;0H\`");'

It could well be WORSE than flushing sand down.
The products nowadays are oftentimes designed to clump
when they get wet. And others are clay dirt that will do
that to some extent. So you'll tend to get a mounding and
blocking effect in the pipes, especially if they are the old style
clay pipe in the horizontal run.
But I'll bet they have PVC pipes, which shouldn't be quite as
vulnerable.
The other example, (gravel) would indeed be bad, worse
than sand or cat litter, but also pretty unlikely.
Tenant needs to be reminded of the type solids that are to
be flushed, or not flushed. And that the inconvenience
encountered because of the litter flushing habit will be translated
to his need to be searching the Yellow Pages for a Ryder truck
when the landlord stops accepting his rent.
Most people have e-mail nowadays. Rather than trying to forbid,
just forward these comments to the tenants, all the tenants that have
cats. Or establish a no-pets policy in the lease.

I-zheet M'drurz wrote in message
...
Flushing the actual cat crap down the drain shouldn't be a
problem (no more than larger human stuff) but I would *never*
flush litter down the toilet. You have it figured right, it is
likely clumping up in at least one place. It would be the same
as flushing sand or gravel, IMO.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:29:50 -0600, Tom Rodman
] wrote:

I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

You can put a "no pets" policy in the lease. This restriction can be
limited to 4-legged pets to allow for birds and fish which make good
rental-property pets for owners, renters, and neighbors. Still, folks
will try to flush just about anything down the toilet that does not
belong there.

Next time you do your groceries, ask for "plastic" and use those.

--
"I will jump five hundred feet
into block of cement!"
- Bruno the Magnificent
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Some types of litter is said to be flushable. All others are a big no
no. I might also suggest that even the "flushable" types have been
questioned and I don't think it is a good idea to even allow these.

Personally I have two cats. I buy the rolls of plastic bags that they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores. Once in the bag it goes
in the trash, no smell and no problems.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Tom Rodman" ] wrote in message
l.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a
duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat
crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

--
regards,
Tom Rodman
pls run for my address:
perl -e 'print unpack("u", "1\:6UP\,\$\!T\F\]D\;6\%N\+F\-O\;0H\`");'

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:29:50 -0600, Tom Rodman
] wrote:

I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

Require that the cat owners use a litter box with disposable liners.
I use the kind with draw strings. Open the litter container, pull
draw strings and tie, toss in garbage can. No muss, no fuss, no
getting too close to the odor ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Where do you buy those bags at? The market or ???

--
Lee

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

I buy the rolls of plastic bags that they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores.

By the way, regarding the sewer gas, make sure
the basement drain has water in its trap.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:29:50 -0600, Tom Rodman
] wrote:

I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

Personally I have two cats. I buy the rolls of plastic bags that they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores. Once in the bag it goes
in the trash, no smell and no problems.

We use those cat box liners -- works like a charm when we do litter changes.
In between, stuff ends up in pretty much any plastic bag we have laying
about.

James

There are flushable litters on the market but I'm cynical about them myself.
Sometimes I'll scoop and toss THAT into the toilet, but in those cases there
is little litter on fecal matter; clumps of urine still go into a bag.

You'll need to get with your tenant on the issue -- confirm that he/she is
even flushing litter. It may turn out that this is not the case at all. If
it is, I'd definitely make notice that this is not allowed.

Have you tried snaking the drains, see if anything comes back out? I know
Roto Rooter is now offering a camera inspection of drain systems -- that
might allow you to identify the problem with greater certainty.

James

"JNJ" wrote in message
...
There are flushable litters on the market but I'm cynical about them
myself.
Sometimes I'll scoop and toss THAT into the toilet, but in those cases
there
is little litter on fecal matter; clumps of urine still go into a bag.


Even *if* the cat litter is flushable, where the hell do you think it ends
up anyway?

All cat litters and renters are not created equal. Some renters are smarter
than others and some cat litters are flushable and some aren't. I would
make it an across the board rule that no cat litter can be flushed. It
isn't that big of a deal to put it in a plastic bag and place it in the
trash. Unfortunately when dealing with a broad spectrum of the public, you
often have to set basic guide lines.

www.nationalbag.com

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Lee Bray" wrote in message
news:wWMtb.212735$HS4.1823452@attbi_s01...
Where do you buy those bags at? The market or ???

--
Lee

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

I buy the rolls of plastic bags that they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores.

I do when I use any kind of bag. Of course if I don't get a chance to
stop them, I may walk up to the register with five items and they will end
up in three bags (or six if they are in a double bag mood.

I have been known to take they out of the bags and hand the bags back to
the clerk. I try to use the self checkout, but if the cash register
operators nearby don't have something to do, they come over and over back
everything anyway.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Bruno" wrote in message
...
Next time you do your groceries, ask for "plastic" and use those.

--
"I will jump five hundred feet
into block of cement!"
- Bruno the Magnificent
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Some types of litter is said to be flushable. All others are a big
no
no. I might also suggest that even the "flushable" types have been
questioned and I don't think it is a good idea to even allow these.

Personally I have two cats. I buy the rolls of plastic bags that
they
use in the produce departments of grocery stores. Once in the bag it
goes
in the trash, no smell and no problems.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Tom Rodman" ] wrote in
message
l.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a
duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three
cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat
crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat
litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the
litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

--
regards,
Tom Rodman
pls run for my address:
perl -e 'print unpack("u",
"1\:6UP\,\$\!T\F\]D\;6\%N\+F\-O\;0H\`");'

I-zheet M'drurz wrote:

On 16 Nov 2003, Tom Rodman wrote:

(snip)
One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat
litter might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that
the litter might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an
expensive repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the
eventual hard blockage.

Comments?

Flushing the actual cat crap down the drain shouldn't be a
problem (no more than larger human stuff) but I would *never*
flush litter down the toilet. You have it figured right, it is
likely clumping up in at least one place. It would be the same
as flushing sand or gravel, IMO.

The problem with flushing cat crap down the drain is it is usually
coated with cat litter.

repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

Maybe off topic, but I had a Labrador that used to eat the cat **** (with
attached litter) from our cat litter tray.

It was great, just topped it up every couple of days. Only problem was the
dogs breath...

"PhilÅ" wrote in message
...

repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

Maybe off topic, but I had a Labrador that used to eat the cat **** (with
attached litter) from our cat litter tray.

It was great, just topped it up every couple of days. Only problem was the
dogs breath...


Was he a friendly dog? Liked to lick peoples' faces?

On 16 Nov 2003 14:40:43 GMT, "I-zheet M'drurz"
wrote:

It would be the same
as flushing sand or gravel, IMO.


It IS the same as flushing CLAY (that is what kitty litter is!)

I am 70 years old, have had too many cats to count, and I never flushed any of
their litter down the toilet. Insist they stop immediately.
Pat

Hi,
Unless they want blockage in their sewer line.
Embarrassing thing.
Tony

Patscga wrote:
I am 70 years old, have had too many cats to count, and I never flushed any of
their litter down the toilet. Insist they stop immediately.
Pat

Voice of experience: Flushing cat litter makes for needing to have pipes
reamed out.

--


"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 16 Nov 2003, Tom Rodman wrote:

(snip)
One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat
litter might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that
the litter might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an
expensive repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the
eventual hard blockage.

Comments?

Flushing the actual cat crap down the drain shouldn't be a
problem (no more than larger human stuff) but I would *never*
flush litter down the toilet. You have it figured right, it is
likely clumping up in at least one place. It would be the same
as flushing sand or gravel, IMO.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

Your first mistake was to permit tenants to have pets. Never heard of a
renter with pets who wasn't a pain in the butt in one way or t'other.

Tom Rodman ] wrote in message ol.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

My direct, personal, long time experience: The litter is clay. We took
out a length of waste pipe and found it half full of cat litter for a
30 foot length.
TB

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:29:50 -0600, Tom Rodman
] wrote:

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

Yes. I thoroughly sift the, um, solids out of clay litter and flush
with no problems. However, there are all sorts of litter these days,
and all kinds of tenants. The "clumping" sort (of litter, not tenants)
results in about 3/4 cupful of dampish sand for each urination. Not
good for drains. There are also very fluffy wood/paper chip litters.
Would you want shredded newspaper put down the toilet?

I don't know how you can *stop* clandestine flushing, but you can at
least make it clear that it is positively forbidden.

Even *if* the cat litter is flushable, where the hell do you think it ends
up anyway?

The city's waste recycling plant.

James

Structure this into your lease:
The water closets and waste pipes shall not be used for any purpose other
than those for which they were constructed, nor shall any sweepings,
rubbish, kitty litter, soiled kitty litter, or any other improper articles
be thrown into them. Any damage to the building caused by the misuse of such
equipment shall be paid by the Tenant.

And while your at it put this in too:
NO ANIMALS, FISH, BIRDS OR PETS OF ANY KIND SHALL BE PERMITTED IN THE
PREMISES WITHOUT THE LANDLORD'S PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT. The granting of
consent to others shall in no way be deemed the granting of consent to the
Tenant, nor obligate the Landlord to grant consent to the Tenant.

Of course, with the no animals clause, you can get rid of the kitty litter
clause.
Do yourself a *big* favor. Get rid of the animals. Do one of the following:
have the tenant sign a new lease with the no pet clause, give the tenant a
notice stating you're not renewing or if a "tenant at will" (month to month)
give the tenant the required notice to vacate.

The tenant may think you're not nice, but, it's your property, and you,
ultimately will have to pay for any pet damage you find after the tenant
leaves.

Of course, their are various laws concerning everything I've stated above.
Consult a lawyer schooled in landord/tenant law before acting.

Bob

"Tom Rodman" ] wrote in message
l.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat
crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

--
regards,
Tom Rodman
pls run for my address:
perl -e 'print unpack("u", "1\:6UP\,\$\!T\F\]D\;6\%N\+F\-O\;0H\`");'

Only if there is enough water flow to move it down the line. Doubtful.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn More about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"JNJ" wrote in message
...
Even *if* the cat litter is flushable, where the hell do you think it ends
up anyway?

The city's waste recycling plant.

James

It is OK to put kitty litter down drain as long as you have a disposal under
your sink. You can put ANYTHING down a sink with a pig.

Local cat lady here was flushing clay and cat **** down drain for a few
years untill the whole line was plugged up. Had to be replaced. When
the scum with the digger lifted the 10 foot section of PVC out he let it
tip to one side and the **** came out. That is the Worst stink I have ever
smelled in my life. Worse than grease trap. The digger almost tipped over
when it tried to lift one section of the pipe.

Oh yeah check this out!! The strangest part of the whole thing was she
kept some of the cat ****. In her basement there were over 50 plastic
grocery bags with about 2 pounds of **** each

There were piles of garbage bags full of clothes and **** from the 70's.
The pile was biggest at the stairs and was starting to back up. Her hot
water tank had rusted out a while ago and had been leaking out into
the basement. the floor was soaked and reeked of mold.

She was an old drunk and very nasty. I tried to be nice to her but she
was so lonely she wouldnt let me go. I finally had to say I was going,
that I was going to get in trouble. She got ****ed and said, "I bet you
think I'm dirty". I was kinda shocked but kept going and just said, no,
no I don't, we'll see you now, you have a nice day dear.




"Bob" wrote in message news:41aub.170249$mZ5.1192443@attbi_s54...
Structure this into your lease:
The water closets and waste pipes shall not be used for any purpose other
than those for which they were constructed, nor shall any sweepings,
rubbish, kitty litter, soiled kitty litter, or any other improper articles
be thrown into them. Any damage to the building caused by the misuse of
such
equipment shall be paid by the Tenant.

And while your at it put this in too:
NO ANIMALS, FISH, BIRDS OR PETS OF ANY KIND SHALL BE PERMITTED IN THE
PREMISES WITHOUT THE LANDLORD'S PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT. The granting of
consent to others shall in no way be deemed the granting of consent to the
Tenant, nor obligate the Landlord to grant consent to the Tenant.

Of course, with the no animals clause, you can get rid of the kitty litter
clause.
Do yourself a *big* favor. Get rid of the animals. Do one of the
following:
have the tenant sign a new lease with the no pet clause, give the tenant a
notice stating you're not renewing or if a "tenant at will" (month to
month)
give the tenant the required notice to vacate.

The tenant may think you're not nice, but, it's your property, and you,
ultimately will have to pay for any pet damage you find after the tenant
leaves.

Of course, their are various laws concerning everything I've stated above.
Consult a lawyer schooled in landord/tenant law before acting.

Bob

"Tom Rodman" ] wrote in message
l.net...
I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement floor drain
(Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement - smell is musty, not
clear what it is but I could convince myself it's like cat/crap
cat/litter/.

This is an old single family (Milwaukee WI, 1903), converted into a
duplex
from a single family. The upper unit has a good tenant with three cats.

Should I insist that the tenant refrain from flushing *any* of the cat
crap or
soiled cat litter down the toilet?

One plumber friend I talked with last night was shocked that cat litter
might be getting into the drain system. His concern was that the litter
might accumulate in the drain pipes, and might require an expensive
repair- cutting out the cast iron pipework to remove the eventual hard
blockage.

Comments?

--
regards,
Tom Rodman
pls run for my address:
perl -e 'print unpack("u", "1\:6UP\,\$\!T\F\]D\;6\%N\+F\-O\;0H\`");'

Tom Rodman ] wrote
in l.net:

I'm a landlord now dealing with problems in a basement
floor drain (Palmer valve) - sewer gas smelling up basement
- smell is musty, not clear what it is but I could convince
myself it's like cat/crap cat/litter/.

i don't know if your problem is related to your tenant, but
NEVER flush litter down the toilet! i don't care *what* the
bag of biodegradable litter says, it WILL jam up the plumbing.
if they use clay litter or scoopable litter it's even worse.
you really shouldn't have to forbid it, but since common
sense tends to be lacking in most people, it would make sense
to protect yourself & your property that you do put it into
the tenant agreement.
as a former tenant with 11 cats, 2 dogs & 3 rats, i applaud
you for allowing pets. as a pet owner, i do understand that a
landlord needs to protect his investment & adding special pet
clauses is perfectly understandable.
lee