On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.




--
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:03:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

Exactly. She pleaded not guilty at Arraignment.

I'd like to know where the poster gets his facts. Either he was in
prison or was a street cop. I'm not aware of his credentials

On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.


It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not. The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.

She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.

If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.

--
Maggie

Oren
Tue, 18 Oct 2016
21:35:17 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:03:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month
ago and was widely reported at the time.

Exactly. She pleaded not guilty at Arraignment.

For something that's not a minor issue, it's in your best interest to
plead not guilty (even if you are) as that can give you bargaining
options later if the case isn't dismissed on it's own merits, but,
continues going south for you. Pleading guilty negates a
trial/possible later plea agreement.

I'd like to know where the poster gets his facts. Either he was in
prison or was a street cop. I'm not aware of his credentials

I've never been to prison as a criminal, but, I have done some
electrical as well as I.T. work on a few in different states...

I've never been a cop. Or a corrections officer for that matter.
Wouldn't wish either job on anybody, truth be told. You have to deal
with more assholes combined with a daily risk of being shot for a
**** poor reason for low pay considering what's asked of you on a
daily basis. I deal with enough assholes in electrical/IT work. And
the pay is better with far less risk of some dickhead wanting to
shoot me for doing my job.

My credentials are not in the legal system field. They're in the
field of electrical and I.T, specialized in various aspects of the
hpavc scenes. Former Blackhat, turned Grayhat.

Any more assumptions about someone you know nothing about you'd like
to make?

--
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin

It happens that Muggles formulated :
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.


It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not. The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.

She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.

If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.

I still think that those with the facts should be making the decisions.
We have no more facts now than we did then.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:43:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.


It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not.

Maybe not to you, but it likely will to the jury.


The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.


What video would that be? The only video I've seen doesn't show
what happened in the last seconds, because the camera is blocked
by the cops that are around the perp. Also no one else here has
claimed to be able to see those last few, critical seconds.
I suspect you're making up BS *again*.



She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.


Again, provide us with the video that shows what you claim.
Why can't you ever wait for the facts and a fair trial?

If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.

--
Maggie

Maybe so, but that that probably isn't what the jury has to decide.
Whether to use a taser or a gun isn't the issue. Typically all that
is required is for the jury to find that the officer believed their
life, or the life of others, was in jeopardy at that moment.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 8:32:31 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
It happens that Muggles formulated :
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle..

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.


It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not. The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.

She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.

If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.

I still think that those with the facts should be making the decisions.
We have no more facts now than we did then.

+1

But having no facts has never stopped Muggles before. And in so many
of these, when the facts do come out, the truth versus what Muggles
and similar told us turn out to be very different. Examples range
from Michael Brown being an innocent black boy gunned down in the street,
to that deaf perp, who was supposed to be just driving to a safe place
to pull over. The facts showed a very different story.

On 10/19/2016 10:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:43:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.

It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not.


Maybe not to you, but it likely will to the jury.

I seriously doubt that because it's highly likely that everyone has seen
the videos already, and those videos show the man wasn't being
aggressive towards the officers.

Cops just can't SHOOT people. Why didn't the other officers present
also shoot the man? If he had been aggressive, don't you think those
other officers would have had their guns drawn, too, and would also have
used them??


The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.


What video would that be? The only video I've seen doesn't show
what happened in the last seconds, because the camera is blocked
by the cops that are around the perp.

In all the videos, the man can be seen standing in the same position and
not moving towards the officers. EVEN if the man moved his hand and
appeared to be trying to reach into a window, it's STILL not an action
that required anyone to shoot him.


Also no one else here has
claimed to be able to see those last few, critical seconds.
I suspect you're making up BS *again*.

How many times have you actually watched the videos available to the
everyone?? It isn't rocket science to be able to SEE what happened and
the time frame that it happened.


She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.

Again, provide us with the video that shows what you claim.
Why can't you ever wait for the facts and a fair trial?

Fair trial?? Gee, did the dead man get a FAIR TRIAL??

When an incident is on video and there's multiple videos available of
that incident, and the public has access to those video's, said public
already KNOWS what happened. Even the DA's office determined the
officer reacted unreasonably.


If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.


Maybe so, but that that probably isn't what the jury has to decide.
Whether to use a taser or a gun isn't the issue. Typically all that
is required is for the jury to find that the officer believed their
life, or the life of others, was in jeopardy at that moment.

You're wrong. Several other officers were there, too, so if her life was
in jeopardy, why weren't there's in jeopardy, too?


--
Maggie

On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual evidence to
be having facts??


--
Maggie

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:57:45 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual evidence to
be having facts??


--
Maggie

Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
final seconds, before and as the shots were fired. The video I've
seen only shows the backs of the cops, not what happened.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:43:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason, Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.

It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not.


Maybe not to you, but it likely will to the jury.

I seriously doubt that because it's highly likely that everyone has seen
the videos already, and those videos show the man wasn't being
aggressive towards the officers.


The videos show the perp continuing to disregard police commands.
Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
last seconds, just before and as the shots were fired. We've
discussed this here before and so far, you're the only one claiming
to have seen this definitive video/s.


Cops just can't SHOOT people. Why didn't the other officers present
also shoot the man? If he had been aggressive, don't you think those
other officers would have had their guns drawn, too, and would also have
used them??


Again, show us that video. And all the above gets sorted out at a
trial. As I recall, one other officer was ready to use his taser,
so he could have felt he was in danger too.




The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.


What video would that be? The only video I've seen doesn't show
what happened in the last seconds, because the camera is blocked
by the cops that are around the perp.

In all the videos, the man can be seen standing in the same position and
not moving towards the officers. EVEN if the man moved his hand and
appeared to be trying to reach into a window, it's STILL not an action
that required anyone to shoot him.


So, there you have it. You haven't seen a video that shows what
actually happened, just as I thought. The video I saw, the video
others here saw, doesn't show what happened at the end, because
the view is totally blocked by the cops that are near the perp.
So, rather than wait for all the statements, all the forensics,
all the facts, once again, you're rushing to judgment based on
partial facts. How did that work out for you in the Michael Brown
case? The recent deaf guy case? Why can't you learn?



Also no one else here has
claimed to be able to see those last few, critical seconds.
I suspect you're making up BS *again*.

How many times have you actually watched the videos available to the
everyone?? It isn't rocket science to be able to SEE what happened and
the time frame that it happened.


Stil waiting for the link to that video. Where is it?
Link challenged? What you're claiming doesn't require rocket science,
but it does require either X-ray vision or videos that don't exist,
because none show what happened in the final moments.



She jumped the gun... literally. She had previously seen there was no
gun in the vehicle because she's the cop that secured it because the
front door was open when she found it abandoned. The video shows the
front door was CLOSED and the window was UP. If there had still been a
gun in the front seat of that vehicle, she'd have been negligent when
she originally secured the vehicle and closed the front door.

Again, provide us with the video that shows what you claim.
Why can't you ever wait for the facts and a fair trial?

Fair trial?? Gee, did the dead man get a FAIR TRIAL??

Now you're reached village idiot status, again.



When an incident is on video and there's multiple videos available of
that incident, and the public has access to those video's, said public
already KNOWS what happened. Even the DA's office determined the
officer reacted unreasonably.


Still waiting for that link.


If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.


Maybe so, but that that probably isn't what the jury has to decide.
Whether to use a taser or a gun isn't the issue. Typically all that
is required is for the jury to find that the officer believed their
life, or the life of others, was in jeopardy at that moment.

You're wrong. Several other officers were there, too, so if her life was
in jeopardy, why weren't there's in jeopardy, too?


you have statements, depositions from them saying they didn't feel
their lives were in jeopardy? Why can't you ever wait for the facts?

trader_4
Wed, 19
Oct 2016 23:58:34 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:57:45 AM UTC-4, Muggles
wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual
evidence to be having facts??


--
Maggie

Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
final seconds, before and as the shots were fired. The video I've
seen only shows the backs of the cops, not what happened.


I've seen three videos so far myself. One from the cruiser that
witnessed her walk right up to him, with her handgun pointed at him,
making unwise tactical decisions the entire time. I don't think my
weapons instructor would train any of us to walk right up on somebody
that we 'fear' without an ability to take cover in the event they do
have a firearm and decide to start shooting. Come to think of it, I
don't believe my instructor would say walking that closely to a person
you might have to shoot is a smart thing to be doing either. If he had
any martial arts training, she may have been close enough to be
disarmed and shot with her own weapon.

I did read an article yesterday where two of her own who wanted to
remain anonymous stated they wouldn't want to be with her if something
went down as she's known to 'panic under pressure'. In the same
article, her own defense lawyer said he heard this before, but, he
didn't see it when talking to her.





Another from another cruisers dash cam where it turns around and shows
his body on the ground, and the final one from the helicopters point of
view. None of the three I've seen clearly show him reaching (or not)
into the car; something is always obstructing the view for those final
seconds. Other cops, angle of view, etc.


--
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin

On 10/19/2016 6:58 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:57:45 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual evidence to
be having facts??




Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
final seconds, before and as the shots were fired. The video I've
seen only shows the backs of the cops, not what happened.


Look at the video from the helicopter. It circles above the vehicle and
you can SEE the man standing at the driver's side door. You can SEE the
cops standing near the rear of the vehicle, and you can SEE that the man
did not walk towards those officers because he was shot and he fell on
the ground DEAD at the front door of the vehicle.



--
Maggie

On 10/19/2016 7:09 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:43:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday
against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence
Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms
in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the
single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his
vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason,
Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.






Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Benjamin Franklin


Are you on time delay news? Shelby being charged happened a month ago
and was widely reported at the time.

What happened there is a good example of what can happen when you
decide to ignore the police and settle something on the street
instead of in court. IDK if she is guilty or innocent, but I do
know that the dead perp created the toxic situation that ultimately
lead to what happened. And contrary to what we initially heard
about a "minister" being gunned down, PCP was found in his car and
the autopsy showed the perp was chock full of it.

It doesn't matter if the man had PCP in his blood or not.


Maybe not to you, but it likely will to the jury.

I seriously doubt that because it's highly likely that everyone has seen
the videos already, and those videos show the man wasn't being
aggressive towards the officers.



The videos show the perp continuing to disregard police commands.

No. The videos show the man backing up with his arms raised. You CAN'T
hear what the police are telling him to do.

[...]


The video
shows that he was standing with his arms up and had not moved towards
the officers.


What video would that be? The only video I've seen doesn't show
what happened in the last seconds, because the camera is blocked
by the cops that are around the perp.

In all the videos, the man can be seen standing in the same position and
not moving towards the officers. EVEN if the man moved his hand and
appeared to be trying to reach into a window, it's STILL not an action
that required anyone to shoot him.


So, there you have it. You haven't seen a video that shows what
actually happened, just as I thought.

You've got to be kidding? You can see what happened in both videos.

[...]


If the man had taken steps toward the officers, I can see him being
tased, but shot?? There were at least 4 officers there close by, and
there are other ways to subdue big men besides killing them.


Maybe so, but that that probably isn't what the jury has to decide.
Whether to use a taser or a gun isn't the issue. Typically all that
is required is for the jury to find that the officer believed their
life, or the life of others, was in jeopardy at that moment.


You're wrong. Several other officers were there, too, so if her life was
in jeopardy, why weren't there's in jeopardy, too?


you have statements, depositions from them saying they didn't feel
their lives were in jeopardy? Why can't you ever wait for the facts?

The facts are there were other cops there who did NOT shoot the man, did
NOT feel their lives were in jeopardy, and only ONE cop who felt the
need to shoot.

She used excessive force.


--
Maggie

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 8:39:58 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Wed, 19
Oct 2016 23:58:34 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:57:45 AM UTC-4, Muggles
wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual
evidence to be having facts??


--
Maggie

Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
final seconds, before and as the shots were fired. The video I've
seen only shows the backs of the cops, not what happened.


I've seen three videos so far myself. One from the cruiser that
witnessed her walk right up to him, with her handgun pointed at him,
making unwise tactical decisions the entire time. I don't think my
weapons instructor would train any of us to walk right up on somebody
that we 'fear' without an ability to take cover in the event they do
have a firearm and decide to start shooting. Come to think of it, I
don't believe my instructor would say walking that closely to a person
you might have to shoot is a smart thing to be doing either. If he had
any martial arts training, she may have been close enough to be
disarmed and shot with her own weapon.


I agree that in some of these incidents has the police approached it
differently the outcome could have been different. In this one, for
example, they could have tased him earlier in the sequence. But that
is irrelevant to getting a conviction of the cop in court. A good
example of that is in Cleveland, where the cops responded to a call of
a guy pointing a gun at people in a park. They responded and drove
right up to the perp, with the perp close to the right front fender
of the car, at which point the cop in the passenger seat opened his
door, confronted the perp who was actually a 12 year old with a pellet
gun, and wound up shooting him. I think how they approached that was
dumb, IDK if they were both responsible or just the driver, but regardless,
not only was there no conviction, after an independent review by out
of state expert prosecutors, no charges were brought.



I did read an article yesterday where two of her own who wanted to
remain anonymous stated they wouldn't want to be with her if something
went down as she's known to 'panic under pressure'. In the same
article, her own defense lawyer said he heard this before, but, he
didn't see it when talking to her.


IDK how a lawyer would see that when talking to her, makes no sense.
It's only something you'd see in certain situations.







Another from another cruisers dash cam where it turns around and shows
his body on the ground, and the final one from the helicopters point of
view. None of the three I've seen clearly show him reaching (or not)
into the car; something is always obstructing the view for those final
seconds. Other cops, angle of view, etc.


Exactly. And that's my point to Muggles, that we can't see the final,
critical moments in any of the videos that I've seen.

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 12:15:12 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 6:58 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:57:45 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:09 AM, trader_4 wrote:

But having no facts

So, you don't consider having multiple videos of the actual evidence to
be having facts??




Like I said, show us the video that shows what happened in those
final seconds, before and as the shots were fired. The video I've
seen only shows the backs of the cops, not what happened.


Look at the video from the helicopter. It circles above the vehicle and
you can SEE the man standing at the driver's side door. You can SEE the
cops standing near the rear of the vehicle, and you can SEE that the man
did not walk towards those officers because he was shot and he fell on
the ground DEAD at the front door of the vehicle.



--
Maggie

Still can't figure out how to post a simple link I see. Figures.

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 12:25:03 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 7:09 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 11:56:43 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/19/2016 10:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:43:26 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 10/18/2016 4:03 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:38:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htukxrw

TULSA, Okla. (AP) €” Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-
degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who
fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday
against
officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence
Crutcher
on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its
aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms
in the
air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the
single
shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not
following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man
began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his
vehicle.

I'm glad to see they realized, Betty shot him without just cause. Oh
wait.. I stated I thought he was shot without justified reason,
Didn't
I....Yep Yep.

I hope she gets convicted and serves her time in general population.

On 10/20/2016 10:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Exactly. And that's my point to Muggles, that we can't see the final,
critical moments in any of the videos that I've seen.


All the moments leading up to a man being killed by cop are critical
moments. If you can't see that, you should just shut your eyes.

--
Maggie

On 10/20/2016 10:41 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 12:25:03 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:

The videos show the perp continuing to disregard police commands.

No. The videos show the man backing up with his arms raised. You CAN'T
hear what the police are telling him to do.


Now do you think it's typical for cops in that situation to tell the
perp, just walk away from us?

Typical?

You've made assumptions as to WHAT the cop was saying to the man. Why?
There is no evidence that anything you've assumed was said, ACTUALLY WAS
said.

OTOH, the video evidence SHOWS the event as it happened.


Go back to your car, go right on up
to the driver's door, so you can flee?

You've really no idea what was said, but, you're willing to make
assumptions.

OTOH, you can't describe the actual event as it happened based on video
evidence because you want to wait for "evidence"??

Good grief.

Yeah. Good grief, you're deductive reasoning skills suck.


And note that I'm not the one drawing the conclusions about
what happened without the facts, you are. The testimony of the officers,
any witnesses, any recordings would all come into play and almost
certainly show that the perp, loaded up on PCP was disobeying the police
commands. But of course, you can't and won't wait for any of that.

The ONLY thing that means anything is that video evidence. It doesn't
matter if the man had PCP in his blood. He had his arms up, was not
aggressive towards the cops, and nothing he had physically done was
cause for lethal force.


--
Maggie