I have 2 Drywall T squares, made by 2 different companies. Neither
of them is actually 48". One is 1/8" short, the other is shy by 3/16".

The problem isn't the side with the markings that start at "0" by the T
and end at 47 7/8", it's the side with the markings that start at "0" at
the end away from the T and end at 48" at the T. That first 1" marking,
(which is directly opposite the 47" marking) isn't at 1" from the end,
so none of markings on that side are accurate.

Now, I know that a Drywall T Square is not meant to be a precision
measurement device and I know how to "shift an inch" to compensate
for the incorrect marking, but I wonder why they bother to mark
the inaccurate side in the first place. If you want markings on both
sides, just start both sides at "0" by the T so that the markings line
up and are accurate.

Seems like they could just make the T squares a true 48" and eliminate
the problem. Maybe they do...both of mine were bought at the borg but
they were bought 20 years apart, so it's not a new issue.

Oh well, such is life.

On 10/10/2016 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

No, can't say as have...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 12:28:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/10/2016 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

No, can't say as have...


Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

I always double check my T-squares before each project and have
discovered I can sort of square them up by tapping the rivets with a
hammer. It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to
discover it isn't. This is doubly true considering the price of sheet
rock and plywood these days.

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 1:35:42 PM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 12:28:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/10/2016 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

No, can't say as have...


Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

I always double check my T-squares before each project and have
discovered I can sort of square them up by tapping the rivets with a
hammer. It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to
discover it isn't. This is doubly true considering the price of sheet
rock and plywood these days.

"It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to discover
it isn't."

I have a Delta 10" miter saw. After a few years of rough use, I wanted
to make some cuts that had to be square. When I tried to square the
fence to the blade, I found that I could only square it on one side of
the blade or the other - not both.

I took the fence off and laid it face down on my table saw. One side
was perfectly flat on the table across it's whole face. The other side
touched at the far end but not near the middle. It was up enough that
I could slip a business card under the face with no resistance.

I called a local machine shop and luckily ended up speaking to a guy
that was a weekend woodworker like myself. He completely understood the
frustration of not being able to square up a tool and told me to bring
the fence in. For $20 (which probably went for coffee and donuts) he had
one of his guys mill the face completely flat. It squared up perfectly
after that.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:35:37 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 12:28:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/10/2016 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

No, can't say as have...


Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

I always double check my T-squares before each project and have
discovered I can sort of square them up by tapping the rivets with a
hammer. It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to
discover it isn't. This is doubly true considering the price of sheet
rock and plywood these days.
Mine doesn't even PRETEND to be 48 inches. It is supposed tp be a 54
inch square and it is out (short) by almost 1/16 of an inch measuring
from the root of the square out.f rom the tip in it is about 3/32 inch
short. The error is not distributed across the length, it is an
"indexing error".
Mine is a "fat pat" imported by Toolway Industries and made in
(drumroll) CHINA. I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Perhaps there is a reason they are made short? When using a
carpenter's pencil on 1/2" drywall the line from the edge - - -
-.WILL be almost 1/16 inch

On 10/10/2016 01:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:35:37 +0000, Stormin' Norman
nor

snip
Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

I always double check my T-squares before each project and have
discovered I can sort of square them up by tapping the rivets with a
hammer. It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to
discover it isn't. This is doubly true considering the price of sheet
rock and plywood these days.
Mine doesn't even PRETEND to be 48 inches. It is supposed tp be a 54
inch square and it is out (short) by almost 1/16 of an inch measuring
from the root of the square out.f rom the tip in it is about 3/32 inch
short. The error is not distributed across the length, it is an
"indexing error".
Mine is a "fat pat" imported by Toolway Industries and made in
(drumroll) CHINA. I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Perhaps there is a reason they are made short? When using a
carpenter's pencil on 1/2" drywall the line from the edge - - -
-.WILL be almost 1/16 inch



Yep that must be it.

I checked mine and it is offset just slightly...possibly 1/16 of an
inch. In cutting drywall that would probably equate quite well to the
cutting loss.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

In article ,
lid says...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

General name for a 'big box store'. Such as Lowes or Home Depot instead
of a local mom and pops store.

It comes from the Star Trek show where a group of beings called the Borg
that are mostly machines travel in space in a large cube shape ship.

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 2:36:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:35:37 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 12:28:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/10/2016 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

No, can't say as have...


Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

I always double check my T-squares before each project and have
discovered I can sort of square them up by tapping the rivets with a
hammer. It is a real pain in the ass when you use a square only to
discover it isn't. This is doubly true considering the price of sheet
rock and plywood these days.
Mine doesn't even PRETEND to be 48 inches. It is supposed tp be a 54
inch square and it is out (short) by almost 1/16 of an inch measuring
from the root of the square out.f rom the tip in it is about 3/32 inch
short. The error is not distributed across the length, it is an
"indexing error".
Mine is a "fat pat" imported by Toolway Industries and made in
(drumroll) CHINA. I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Perhaps there is a reason they are made short? When using a
carpenter's pencil on 1/2" drywall the line from the edge - - -
-.WILL be almost 1/16 inch

Sure, I might accept the "pencil" width as a reason for the shortness,
but that only works for the 0" to 48" side. Leave the length short and the
pencil gets you to ~48". OK.

However, that doesn't "fix" the first 1" problem. If the user places the
1" end on a line or against a wall and the uses the marks on that side to
measure something, they will be off by whatever random fraction the
manufacturer chose to leave off the end of the T.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:40:54 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

General name for a 'big box store'. Such as Lowes or Home Depot instead
of a local mom and pops store.

It comes from the Star Trek show where a group of beings called the Borg
that are mostly machines travel in space in a large cube shape ship.

Referring to the Home Depot originally "Big Orange Retailing Giant"

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 19:21:12 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.
Big Orange Retail Giant - AKA Home Despot.

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 3:40:51 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

General name for a 'big box store'. Such as Lowes or Home Depot instead
of a local mom and pops store.

It comes from the Star Trek show where a group of beings called the Borg
that are mostly machines travel in space in a large cube shape ship.

While that is true, it doesn't explain the real reason (IMO) that the
big box stores are called the borg. I like to think that it's based on
the description of the Borg race itself, not their ship:

Stolen without permission from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek):

*****

The Borg are a collection of species that have been turned into cybernetic
organisms functioning as drones in a hive mind called "the Collective" or
"the Hive".

*****

IMO their mantra "You will be assimilated" fits the goal of the big box
stores that we will all shop at the home centers and that they will take
over the entire "hardware store" market.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 15:40:54 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

General name for a 'big box store'. Such as Lowes or Home Depot instead
of a local mom and pops store.

It comes from the Star Trek show where a group of beings called the Borg
that are mostly machines travel in space in a large cube shape ship.

Thanks for the explanation. In this part of the country there is
virtually no such thing as a "Mom & Pop" hardware store any longer.
However, I rarely buy from Home Depot or Lowes. Whenever possible, I
order from Amazon. Prices are much better and since there is no
service at the stores, I see no reason to patronize them except for
large, unwieldy or urgently needed items.

Also, if I need hand tools, I usually go to Harbor Freight as they
have a lifetime warranty on those items.

I miss the old fashion hardware stores where you could bring in an
empty container and get it refilled with mineral spirits, or buy a
case of dynamite without someone calling the ATF.....

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 19:21:12 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 14:36:05 -0400, wrote:

I believe I bought it at the "borg" somewhere about
10 years ago.

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

BORG is an acronym for "Big Old Retail Giant."

Stores like Home Depot, Menard's, Harbor Freight and others all fit into this category.

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

[...]
Also, if I need hand tools, I usually go to Harbor Freight as they
have a lifetime warranty on those items.

Yeah, but they're s**t tools. That's not the only brand that carries a lifetime warranty, you know.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 23:42:57 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

[...]
Also, if I need hand tools, I usually go to Harbor Freight as they
have a lifetime warranty on those items.

Yeah, but they're s**t tools. That's not the only brand that carries a lifetime warranty, you know.
Here in Canada, Canadian Tire is the place to buy reasonable tools
at a good price. When they put on a sale IT IS A GREAT SALE!!!

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 23:42:57 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

[...]
Also, if I need hand tools, I usually go to Harbor Freight as they
have a lifetime warranty on those items.

Yeah, but they're s**t tools. That's not the only brand that carries a lifetime warranty, you know.

I have had excellent experience with their socket wrenches, especially
the black pneumatic sockets as well as many of their other wrenches,
and, if I break one, they are pretty close and they just replace them
immediately, although I have never broken one of their black sockets.

I did break a couple of pipe wrenches, but I was using them in a
completely inappropriate way, I even felt guilty returning them......
but I got over it.

The ROI is tremendous.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:35:37 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


Unless you buy a known, high quality brand, the large T-squares are
rarely even square, let alone accurate. I had to use a known good
carpenters square to test about 12 large T-squares at Harbor freight
before I found one that was actually square.

What do you expect from Harbor Freight?

Buy from a company that sells REAL tools, not from H.F. that sells
garbage!