I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...l-1110077-.htm

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 1:44:04 PM UTC-4, P@lc wrote:
I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.


Given what you describe, the $400 doesn't sound unreasonable.
Either that or getting other quotes sounds like your best option.
Or find a friend that knows what he's doing to help you. This
isn't a real difficult job, but to do it right and not wind up
with a hack job takes some plumbing skills, probably soldering,
and electrical skills that sound like they are beyond what you
have done. Another factor is if resale is a concern? If it's
done right for $400, you're good to go. If you hack it up and
a buyer's home inspector flags it, then you get to do it over.
I've put in water heaters before, but I'd have to do some research
to figure out any code reqts specific to putting a WH in the
garage. I seem to recall something about it having to be a
certain distance above the floor, for example. Also, in earthquake
areas they have to be secured, etc. Some of that is what you're
paying the $400 to know. If you're getting plumbing and elec
for that price, sounds OK to me.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 11:09:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've put in water heaters before, but I'd have to do some research
to figure out any code reqts specific to putting a WH in the
garage. I seem to recall something about it having to be a
certain distance above the floor, for example. Also, in earthquake
areas they have to be secured, etc. Some of that is what you're
paying the $400 to know. If you're getting plumbing and elec
for that price, sounds OK to me.

+1 Mine is similar to this https://tinyurl.com/hjc96ok exhaust
through the roof.

There is also a screen vent through the wall for fresh air to enter
the garage, etc., near the heater - similar to this with stucco.

https://tinyurl.com/h88kczo

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 1:44:04 PM UTC-4, P@lc wrote:
I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.


Is the $400 just for the plumbing? That sound a bit high, but I have
no idea where you live or what the job actually entails. Moving a WH
into a garage and running pipes from the "exterior" to the "interior"
may entail more than just "turning the pipes 180 degrees". What did
the plumber say that you will get for your $400? Will permits need
to be pulled? Inspections done? Earthquake proofing?

As far as the electrical, I'd be concerned about the fact that whoever
installed the electric last time doesn't seem to have known what they
were doing (or didn't care). I doubt that "a wire running from the wall
to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no conduit)" was *ever*
up to code. I'd be concerned with what's going on upstream from the WH.
Do you know of the hack job starting further up the line?

I'll never say that this is beyond your skill set and that you should
hire it out because there was a time when I wouldn't have known how to
do it or what factors to consider. However, if you are capable of doing
some research and learning new things, it may certainly be something
that you can handle.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ...
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 1:44:04 PM UTC-4, P@lc wrote:
I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.


Is the $400 just for the plumbing? That sound a bit high, but I have
no idea where you live or what the job actually entails. Moving a WH
into a garage and running pipes from the "exterior" to the "interior"
may entail more than just "turning the pipes 180 degrees". What did
the plumber say that you will get for your $400? Will permits need
to be pulled? Inspections done? Earthquake proofing?

As far as the electrical, I'd be concerned about the fact that whoever
installed the electric last time doesn't seem to have known what they
were doing (or didn't care). I doubt that "a wire running from the wall
to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no conduit)" was *ever*
up to code. I'd be concerned with what's going on upstream from the WH.
Do you know of the hack job starting further up the line?

I'll never say that this is beyond your skill set and that you should
hire it out because there was a time when I wouldn't have known how to
do it or what factors to consider. However, if you are capable of doing
some research and learning new things, it may certainly be something
that you can handle.

P@lc, Looking back on my own DIY job, if I had to do my new install again, I would pay the plumber....

No problems doing it myself -- just took a lot of time. We ended up without hot water for over a week, trying to do the work around my regular work schedule. This was fine for me, but not for the little woman.

Little things took more time than planned, like lifting it up onto an 18-inch high platform (code for garage installations), cleaning up all the old construction materials left in the crawl space so I could get into connect new pipes, etc.

Here's my story, FWIW....

Old gas water heater in a closet died. Removing the old unit would have required cutting gas lines that had been installed later and several water pipes. Plus the excitement of straining something lifting it out and over a 2-ft wall and angling it out, then patching all the future dings in the walls and floor from carrying it outside. Best estimate I got for R&R in the same place was $2000. $2500 to install new one in the garage, parts & labor. Gas heater was $500 of this.

My installation....

First I installed new unit it in the garage with new pipe runs connected to the old network under the house. All done exactly to code. Note that I'm not an expert, but not an amateur either - one of the tasks I do at work is small diameter pipe fitting. Then cut and plugged the water connections and capped gas line at the old unit. Then ran new water pipes from old network to new heater. Last, installed new vent through the roof.

Had a licensed plumber run the new gas line and inspect the whole installation. Gas company came out, checked it and lit the pilot. Later one, the flame started pulsating high and low. Had mfr come out and replaced the burner assy.

Never a problem since then.

Excellent experience and I enjoyed doing it - as much as you can enjoy something like that. Still, next time I'll hire a plumber.

"Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney" wrote in message ...
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ...
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 1:44:04 PM UTC-4, P@lc wrote:
I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.


Is the $400 just for the plumbing? That sound a bit high, but I have
no idea where you live or what the job actually entails. Moving a WH
into a garage and running pipes from the "exterior" to the "interior"
may entail more than just "turning the pipes 180 degrees". What did
the plumber say that you will get for your $400? Will permits need
to be pulled? Inspections done? Earthquake proofing?

As far as the electrical, I'd be concerned about the fact that whoever
installed the electric last time doesn't seem to have known what they
were doing (or didn't care). I doubt that "a wire running from the wall
to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no conduit)" was *ever*
up to code. I'd be concerned with what's going on upstream from the WH.
Do you know of the hack job starting further up the line?

I'll never say that this is beyond your skill set and that you should
hire it out because there was a time when I wouldn't have known how to
do it or what factors to consider. However, if you are capable of doing
some research and learning new things, it may certainly be something
that you can handle.

P@lc, Looking back on my own DIY job, if I had to do my new install again, I would pay the plumber....

No problems doing it myself -- just took a lot of time. We ended up without hot water for over a week, trying to do the work around my regular work schedule. This was fine for me, but not for the little woman.

Little things took more time than planned, like lifting it up onto an 18-inch high platform (code for garage installations), cleaning up all the old construction materials left in the crawl space so I could get into connect new pipes, etc.

Here's my story, FWIW....

Old gas water heater in a closet died. Removing the old unit would have required cutting gas lines that had been installed later and several water pipes. Plus the excitement of straining something lifting it out and over a 2-ft wall and angling it out, then patching all the future dings in the walls and floor from carrying it outside. Best estimate I got for R&R in the same place was $2000. $2500 to install new one in the garage, parts & labor. Gas heater was $500 of this.

My installation....

First I installed new unit it in the garage with new pipe runs connected to the old network under the house. All done exactly to code. Note that I'm not an expert, but not an amateur either - one of the tasks I do at work is small diameter pipe fitting. Then cut and plugged the water connections and capped gas line at the old unit. Then ran new water pipes from old network to new heater. Last, installed new vent through the roof.

Had a licensed plumber run the new gas line and inspect the whole installation. Gas company came out, checked it and lit the pilot. Later one, the flame started pulsating high and low. Had mfr come out and replaced the burner assy.

Never a problem since then.

Excellent experience and I enjoyed doing it - as much as you can enjoy something like that. Still, next time I'll hire a plumber.

-------

Forgot to say.... one reason for doing it myself.... The $2500 price was to if the water pipes were run up from the heater, through the attic and then down to where the old heater was. That may be OK per code (I don't know) but in industrial work, we always run electrical above water lines, in case of leaks.

Doing it this way would have save me a LOT of time, but I decided to run everything under the floor.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 11:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 11:09:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I've put in water heaters before, but I'd have to do some research
to figure out any code reqts specific to putting a WH in the
garage. I seem to recall something about it having to be a
certain distance above the floor, for example. Also, in earthquake
areas they have to be secured, etc. Some of that is what you're
paying the $400 to know. If you're getting plumbing and elec
for that price, sounds OK to me.

+1 Mine is similar to this https://tinyurl.com/hjc96ok exhaust
through the roof.

There is also a screen vent through the wall for fresh air to enter
the garage, etc., near the heater - similar to this with stucco.

https://tinyurl.com/h88kczo
The OP said theires is "electric" so no vents required

P@lc posted for all of us...



I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well. It is
installed in a laundry closet in the small kitchen. On the other side of the
laundry closet is the garage. I am moving the washer and dryer to the other
side of the wall. That has been a very straightforward process. I need to
move the water heater. I have very limited resources and will struggle to pay
the 400 the plumber estimated for turning the pipes 180 degrees. The tank is
connected to the 3/4 supply lines with flexible copper lines that screw on at
both ends. The electrical, which I am certain is no longer to code, is just a
wire running from the wall to the box in the tank. (No box in the wall and no
conduit)
I have sweated a few very simple repairs in a bathroom but that is all. I
recently used a sharkbite fitting for a repair and it has worked very well.
I am wondering if I could use a push fitting, which swivels, in the supply
line, and just turn the fittngs,180 degrees that way. As long as I leave an
access panel, would that be acceptable? I also wondered if I could bring the
electrical up to code in a few simple steps myself. I have removed the
drywall and see no complicating factors, and nothing else about the
installation is changing. I have very carefully switched out old outlets and
light switches and replaced a few ceiling fans, but that is the extent of my
experience with electrical.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...l-1110077-.htm

My only comment is that a 20 yr old water heater may not be working so well
after being moved. Figure that in your finances.

--
Tekkie

On 9/27/2016 4:59 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
P@lc posted for all of us...



I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well.


My only comment is that a 20 yr old water heater may not be working so well
after being moved. Figure that in your finances.


Good point. I'd not move it, I'd just replace it and be done for
another 10 or 20 years. Getting the sediment stirred up may mean doing
the hookup again in a few weeks.

On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 5:37:28 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/27/2016 4:59 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
P@lc posted for all of us...



I have a 20-year-old electric water heater that is still working well.


My only comment is that a 20 yr old water heater may not be working so well
after being moved. Figure that in your finances.


Good point. I'd not move it, I'd just replace it and be done for
another 10 or 20 years. Getting the sediment stirred up may mean doing
the hookup again in a few weeks.

Agree, it's a point to consider. It's an electric which often last 20+
years, that's a plus. If it was gas, then for sure I'd replace it.
Also depends on if you can do the work yourself. If you can, later
swapping it when it fails wouldn't be expensive. But if you have to
pay a plumber a couple hundred again, that's another factor.

replying to DerbyDad03, P@lc wrote:
Thanks for your reply. Actually, the heater was installed that way by the
main plumbing/electrical/HVAC outfit here and has the city inspection sticker
on it. It passed inspection that way when we bought the house. I think the
homes in this neighborhood -- little tract houses from the 50s and 60s -- are
full of awful hacks because nobody has enough money to pay for proper repairs.
Those of us who didn't foreclose during the last decade are barely paying the
mortgage. (The housing market and economy generally have not improved here.)
We have been hoping to move this ugly water heater out of the kitchen for
eighteen years, but it just isn't ever going to be affordable.
These homes have a lot of poor quality work that was part of the original
construction. The closet flanges are tilted and are well below the slab, and
they were too close to the wall. There are outlets that do not seem to be
connected to any breaker. The circuits seem a little whimsical, with lights
or outlets at opposite ends of the house. I finally saved enough to have an
electrician fix some lights that flickered and worked intermittently, and he
told me that this house was rare in that all of the outlets are grounded. The
other homes in this area are worse than mine.
I do not want to add another jack job to the pile. We did not use one of the
two showers in the house for five years, because it needed replacement and we
could not afford it, and I didn't feel qualified to DIY it. We went without
AC for five years (and temperatures here are above 100 in the summer at least
2/3 of the time) until we could afford to take out a seven-year loan to pay
for a new system. It was installed by the most reputable outfit in town. But
there is only one duct feeding the hotter end of the house and the only
returns are next to the unit, so the kitchen is always at least 20 degrees
hotter than the bedrooms. It was just badly designed in the first place. But
that would be another seven-year loan, which I could not pay off, so we just
live with it.
I think that home ownership is not a realistic goal for people who make less
than the average upper middle class household. You can come up with the
mortgage and barely with the insurance and taxes, but you can't pay for the
maintenance. I grew up in a nicer home, just a little more affluent, just
affluent enough to pay for proper repairs. It makes all the difference, The
homes in this neighborhood.
I am just going to leave the heater where it is.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...l-1110077-.htm

replying to Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney, P@lc wrote:
Thank you for the specific information. This is a much simpler situation,
because the house was originally plumbed for a water heater and laundry in the
garage. The first owner wanted a water softener and storage in that space, so
the builder put the heater and laundry in the kitchen, just across the wall.
This is an electric water heater, and the ignition is more than 15 feet off
the floor, so it would not have to be elevated from the garage floor. The
pipes come into the house at a point in the wall that is exactly between the
current location and the location I wanted to move the heater to, and the
drain exactly midway between as well.
I asked the plumbers for specific information to break down the cost, but
could only get a "well, water heater install is usually more than that" and
"85 an hour and it will probably take a while." This is a geographically
isolated and relatively poor place and I don't think they are accustomed to
providing much in the way of specific information. There are a lot of
unlicensed handyman guys here but I think I would actually be better off doing
a very careful amateur job with a lot of checking myself.
In the end, I just don't want to take a chance on doing something that
eventually leads to serious damage or injury. It involves hot water and
electricity and ignition. I am just going to leave it where it is. Thanks
for the information.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...l-1110077-.htm

replying to trader_4, P@lc wrote:


Ugly old water heater in the kitchen won't do much for resale either, I think.
But I have decided to leave it there. Thanks for the response.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...l-1110077-.htm