I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday, it got down to low 80s
overnight. I measured from 9AM yesterday to 9AM today. 46Kwh, which
at my rates is about $6. That is for the whole 3100 sq ft house,
including central AC set to 77. House is partially shaded.

So, I'm quite happy with my 5 year old Rheem system. It's just
a 14 SEER, basic system, nothing fancy other than an ECM blower
motor. It's using a PSC
motor on the condenser unit, because the fancy ECM one died and
I replaced it with this $80 one that hopefully will last because
it doesn't have the electronic crap.

I think usage here without either heat or AC is around $70 a month.
If we had an entire month of heatwave like this, my bill would
be ~$180, which seems very reasonable, with about $110 attibutable
to the AC. My summer bills have been
very modest, but usually we only have a real hot day or two, so
I was curious to see how it performs during an exceptional day.
It's definitely using a lot less than the old system, probably
1/2 the electricity. Yipee!

On 8/14/2016 10:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday, it got down to low 80s
overnight. I measured from 9AM yesterday to 9AM today. 46Kwh, which
at my rates is about $6. That is for the whole 3100 sq ft house,
including central AC set to 77. House is partially shaded.


Very reasonable. Last month I averaged 42 kWh per day for the month, up
from 32 kWh for the same period last year. I pay .169

On 8/14/2016 7:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday,

Heatwave?? In the summertime SW desert we generally run daily highs of
106 to 118.

If we had an entire month of heatwave like this, my bill would
be ~$180, which seems very reasonable, with about $110 attibutable
to the AC.

My 1800 sq ft house costs around $220/mo. Not sure how much is AC.
However my kids with bigger houses run from $300 to $600/mo which is not
unusual here. (The good news is I've never had to shovel snow.)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:40:50 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 7:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday,

Heatwave?? In the summertime SW desert we generally run daily highs of
106 to 118.

I bet the nights cool down tho

If we had an entire month of heatwave like this, my bill would
be ~$180, which seems very reasonable, with about $110 attibutable
to the AC.

My 1800 sq ft house costs around $220/mo. Not sure how much is AC.
However my kids with bigger houses run from $300 to $600/mo which is not
unusual here. (The good news is I've never had to shovel snow.)

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 9:08:32 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday, it got down to low 80s
overnight. I measured from 9AM yesterday to 9AM today. 46Kwh, which
at my rates is about $6. That is for the whole 3100 sq ft house,
including central AC set to 77. House is partially shaded.

So, I'm quite happy with my 5 year old Rheem system. It's just
a 14 SEER, basic system, nothing fancy other than an ECM blower
motor. It's using a PSC
motor on the condenser unit, because the fancy ECM one died and
I replaced it with this $80 one that hopefully will last because
it doesn't have the electronic crap.

I think usage here without either heat or AC is around $70 a month.
If we had an entire month of heatwave like this, my bill would
be ~$180, which seems very reasonable, with about $110 attibutable
to the AC. My summer bills have been
very modest, but usually we only have a real hot day or two, so
I was curious to see how it performs during an exceptional day.
It's definitely using a lot less than the old system, probably
1/2 the electricity. Yipee!

If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

On 8/14/2016 10:43 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:40:50 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 7:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday,

Heatwave?? In the summertime SW desert we generally run daily highs of
106 to 118.

I bet the nights cool down tho

Yup. Just checked. The low this coming AM will be a cool 85...

If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 19:19:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

You are looking for a lot of joules
These days a panel protector like the ones Ditek sells are cheap
enough to put right on your A/C disconnect
Since I was feeding my air handler with 6ga for the toaster wire heat
I extended the #6 ground all the way to the condenser and drove a rod.
If it is not bonded to the service ground, with a #6 minimum, it is
not worth doing (or legal).

You are looking for a lot of joules
These days a panel protector like the ones Ditek sells are cheap
enough to put right on your A/C disconnect
Since I was feeding my air handler with 6ga for the toaster wire heat
I extended the #6 ground all the way to the condenser and drove a rod.
If it is not bonded to the service ground, with a #6 minimum, it is
not worth doing (or legal).

How many Joules is a lot of Joules???

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:08:36 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


You are looking for a lot of joules
These days a panel protector like the ones Ditek sells are cheap
enough to put right on your A/C disconnect
Since I was feeding my air handler with 6ga for the toaster wire heat
I extended the #6 ground all the way to the condenser and drove a rod.
If it is not bonded to the service ground, with a #6 minimum, it is
not worth doing (or legal).

How many Joules is a lot of Joules???

1000 J with a response time in nanoseconds will get the job done.

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 9:28:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 19:19:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

You are looking for a lot of joules
These days a panel protector like the ones Ditek sells are cheap
enough to put right on your A/C disconnect
Since I was feeding my air handler with 6ga for the toaster wire heat
I extended the #6 ground all the way to the condenser and drove a rod.
If it is not bonded to the service ground, with a #6 minimum, it is
not worth doing (or legal).

G Man, I know you're down there in Florida where the main cash crop is lightning but we have it almost as bad up here in central Alabamastan because you guys keep sending us all that thunderstorm inducing hot moist air from the gulf. When I was doing a lot of HVAC work with my late friend GB, our rural customers were having a lot of capacitors blown up in their central air units. We started installing not only caps with higher voltage ratings but hard wired surge arresters right on the condensing units. There was usually a grounding lug inside the control box, if not we'd install one, where we'd run a #6 direct to the ground rod which is usually on the same side of the house with the incoming power and condensing unit. We only had a few customers with ECM equipped AC's back then but we never had another electrical failure due to lightning on systems we installed protection on. We used either the Square D, Grasslin/Intermatic or Supco arresters similar to those in the links. ^_^

https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schnei.../dp/B0052DMIUK

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/stor...ep?pID=G36-494

Back when I was working and had to ground a lot of equipment, it wasn't unusual for me to run a #4 bare copper from the main ground to a telecom backboard and run it around the peripheral edge of the board using split bolts to attach a ground from every piece of equipment, incoming power surge protection and gas tube arresters. I used the #4 bare Cu because it was durable, easy to attach everything to and there was no mistake as to what it was for. Of course those backboards were in the same room as the incoming power so I wasn't using a lot of #4. I ran a lot of #6 to telecom closets which used to be telephone closets before every business installed a computer network. The old phone equipment I removed was huge and left room for the new smaller phone system and computer network equipment together. Now with VoIP, everything is computer network. Those telephone equipment rooms look almost empty now. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Grounded Monster

wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to
install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to
protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but
dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such
a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that
goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I'l give you the one I took off, because it was brought up here about it
being a fire hazard. Burnt a few houses. I think that was last year. I
would recommend one fully encased in metal.

Greg

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection.
You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That should protect
everything that's only connected to AC, ie not also connected to cable,
telephone, etc., from incoming surges. Putting additional surge
protection right at a furnace with electronics and ECM motor can't hurt.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection.
You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That should protect
everything that's only connected to AC, ie not also connected to cable,
telephone, etc., from incoming surges. Putting additional surge
protection right at a furnace with electronics and ECM motor can't hurt.

When I was still working, the ECM motors for consumer AC systems were just coming down in price enough that they were showing up in mid grade equipment so most of what we were installing surge protection on were the older PSC, Permanent Split Capacitor Motor units. The protection still kept the capacitors from getting blow out of them. Of course there were the vulnerable electronic control boards in the heat pumps that also needed protection. The most damage we repaired due to lightning and power surges was out in the rural areas. I wonder if it is the density of ground paths in the cities that protects a lot of equipment in those areas? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Damaged Monster

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 12:34:41 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection.
You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That should protect
everything that's only connected to AC, ie not also connected to cable,
telephone, etc., from incoming surges. Putting additional surge
protection right at a furnace with electronics and ECM motor can't hurt..

When I was still working, the ECM motors for consumer AC systems were just coming down in price enough that they were showing up in mid grade equipment so most of what we were installing surge protection on were the older PSC, Permanent Split Capacitor Motor units. The protection still kept the capacitors from getting blow out of them. Of course there were the vulnerable electronic control boards in the heat pumps that also needed protection. The most damage we repaired due to lightning and power surges was out in the rural areas. I wonder if it is the density of ground paths in the cities that protects a lot of equipment in those areas? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Damaged Monster

I would guess that cities have less exposed overhead distribution wires
that are near the building to get hit. Most cities here have underground
distribution.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection.
You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That should protect
everything that's only connected to AC, ie not also connected to cable,
telephone, etc., from incoming surges. Putting additional surge
protection right at a furnace with electronics and ECM motor can't hurt.

When I was still working, the ECM motors for consumer AC systems were just coming down in price enough that they were showing up in mid grade equipment so most of what we were installing surge protection on were the older PSC, Permanent Split Capacitor Motor units. The protection still kept the capacitors from getting blow out of them. Of course there were the vulnerable electronic control boards in the heat pumps that also needed protection. The most damage we repaired due to lightning and power surges was out in the rural areas. I wonder if it is the density of ground paths in the cities that protects a lot of equipment in those areas? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Damaged Monster

When the fancy motor crapped out in my trane TWE (a few months out of
warranty) I went back with a high efficiency standard motor (4 speed).
The tech said the motor and the card was bad. We replaced the whole
system last year and I saved the whole blower unit. I am not sure what
I am going to do with it but it was too good to throw away. I may use
it for an attic fan or something. It did occur to me that I could have
made my own variable speed air handler with that motor, a timer chip
and a few relays. The actual operation was pretty simple.
I am going with simple these days. I chucked the solid state
programmable thermostat and put a T-87 in ... wife ready.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Girls%20thermostat.jpg

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 11:54:34 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 12:34:41 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 11:58:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor. ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate!
o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC?
What words should I look for?
Do they come as part of a circuit breaker, or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house protection..
You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That should protect
everything that's only connected to AC, ie not also connected to cable,
telephone, etc., from incoming surges. Putting additional surge
protection right at a furnace with electronics and ECM motor can't hurt.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 13:42:49 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 10:43 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:40:50 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 7:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday,

Heatwave?? In the summertime SW desert we generally run daily highs of
106 to 118.

I bet the nights cool down tho

Yup. Just checked. The low this coming AM will be a cool 85...

Yeah, this is by far the hottest summer of my life.

And last summer was one of the coolest, only 4 or maybe 6 days over
90.

this summer 34 so far counting today and one or two more predicted.

Do you remember my plan to blow air from the basement up to the second
floor. I found only one fan the right diameter, but it was perfect,
and it sits in teh mouth of the laundry chute. (When I have laundry,
I take the fan out and through the clothes down the chute. Takes 10
extra seconds to take it out and 20 to put it back in.)

Well the air it blows is very cool, 10 degrees below what's here, but
the chute is right next to the stairwell, which has no doors, so I
think a lot of it falls down the stairs. When I'm in the bathroom
right across the hall from the chute it's really nice.

But in the office, I dont' feel an effect. I looked into getting a
hose, and a 20 foot, 8" hose is guess how much, about 300 dollars!

But a similar hose, 4" diameter, for a clothes dryer is 20. Since
the amount of material is only half, I don't know why the ratio is
1:15. But anyhow, for next summer, I may make an adapter so I can use
the 4" hose with the 8 1/2 " fan. I'm sure that will work well.

I have a "portable" AC in the bedroom and though i'm sure it's not as
efficient as central AC, I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than doing the
whole house, even though the first floor and the basement are still
pretty comfortable. IF the computer will still in the basement and
the loft bed there wasn't making me claustrophobic, which it didn't
used to do, I'd be fine in the basement..

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 12:34:41 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:19:57 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If you get a chance or inclination some time, it would be a
good idea to install a hard wired surge arrester on your air
handler/furnace to protect that expensive ECM blower motor.
ECM's are more efficient but dang they're delicate! o_O

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

I don't mean to go off-topic, but, what should I look for in
buying such a surge arrestor for my (mini split) AC? What words
should I look for? Do they come as part of a circuit breaker,
or are they something that goes in-line with the wire, but
after the main panel?

I used an Intermatic ig1240rc3 at the panel for whole house
protection. You install a new breaker and wire it to that. That
should protect everything that's only connected to AC, ie not
also connected to cable, telephone, etc., from incoming surges.
Putting additional surge protection right at a furnace with
electronics and ECM motor can't hurt.

When I was still working, the ECM motors for consumer AC systems
were just coming down in price enough that they were showing up in
mid grade equipment so most of what we were installing surge
protection on were the older PSC, Permanent Split Capacitor Motor
units. The protection still kept the capacitors from getting blow
out of them. Of course there were the vulnerable electronic control
boards in the heat pumps that also needed protection. The most
damage we repaired due to lightning and power surges was out in the
rural areas. I wonder if it is the density of ground paths in the
cities that protects a lot of equipment in those areas? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Damaged Monster

I would guess that cities have less exposed overhead distribution
wires that are near the building to get hit. Most cities here have
underground distribution.

Melting over head power lines in New York City
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/...heat-humidity/

Micky wrote:

this is by far the hottest summer of my life.

Ours has been hot for us too. Believe the news said it is
the 6th hottest summer on record. IIRC around 26 days over
110 so far. It's killed around 6 local hikers (and 1 dog)
who underestimated the heat danger.

I have a "portable" AC in the bedroom and though i'm sure it's not as
efficient as central AC,

In the 40's when I moved to the SW desert most people here
used swamp coolers. When the humidity is low they can bring
the inside temperature down as much as 30 degrees. However
when the dew point gets above 55 coolers suck. But they were
easy on the electric bill at around 25% the cost of AC.

BTW they also actually had swamp coolers for cars that hung
outside on the window. But most of us just turned the wing
all the way around for more air which helped except when it
swept a bee into the passenger compartment.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 2:39:24 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 13:42:49 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 10:43 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:40:50 -0700, AL wrote:

On 8/14/2016 7:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I just did a test to see how much electricity my house uses in this
heatwave. We had a high of 95 yesterday,

Heatwave?? In the summertime SW desert we generally run daily highs of
106 to 118.

I bet the nights cool down tho

Yup. Just checked. The low this coming AM will be a cool 85...

Yeah, this is by far the hottest summer of my life.

And last summer was one of the coolest, only 4 or maybe 6 days over
90.

this summer 34 so far counting today and one or two more predicted.

Do you remember my plan to blow air from the basement up to the second
floor. I found only one fan the right diameter, but it was perfect,
and it sits in teh mouth of the laundry chute. (When I have laundry,
I take the fan out and through the clothes down the chute. Takes 10
extra seconds to take it out and 20 to put it back in.)

Well the air it blows is very cool, 10 degrees below what's here, but
the chute is right next to the stairwell, which has no doors, so I
think a lot of it falls down the stairs. When I'm in the bathroom
right across the hall from the chute it's really nice.

But in the office, I dont' feel an effect. I looked into getting a
hose, and a 20 foot, 8" hose is guess how much, about 300 dollars!

But a similar hose, 4" diameter, for a clothes dryer is 20. Since
the amount of material is only half, I don't know why the ratio is
1:15. But anyhow, for next summer, I may make an adapter so I can use
the 4" hose with the 8 1/2 " fan. I'm sure that will work well.

I have a "portable" AC in the bedroom and though i'm sure it's not as
efficient as central AC, I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than doing the
whole house, even though the first floor and the basement are still
pretty comfortable. IF the computer will still in the basement and
the loft bed there wasn't making me claustrophobic, which it didn't
used to do, I'd be fine in the basement..

I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

I can wear less in the summer and I can shovel the snow all winter.

You can't dress for floods and you sure can't shovel water.

I feel for those poor souls in Louisiana, Texas, Wisconsin and
on and on.

3 pages of floods in 2016 alone:

http://floodlist.com/america/usa/

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

Heat is uncomfortable. Cold is painful. IMO of course.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 4:14:15 PM UTC-4, AL wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

Heat is uncomfortable. Cold is painful. IMO of course.

The uncomfortableness of heat and the pain from cold is short-lived.

The uncomfortableness and pain from a flood can last a long, long time.

IMO of course.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:56:18 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:



I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

I can wear less in the summer and I can shovel the snow all winter.

You can't dress for floods and you sure can't shovel water.

I feel for those poor souls in Louisiana, Texas, Wisconsin and
on and on.

3 pages of floods in 2016 alone:

http://floodlist.com/america/usa/

Yes, I feel terrible for the people in flood zones.

Although for the first 20 years I lived here, I wondered if I was in
one. The flood people said I was. I live right next to a stream
that can rise from 8" deep to 10' deep within a day, most of that
within 6 hours. On a nice night when the windows were open, the roar
of the water has been so loud it woke me up.

Baltimore has been very interested in flooding since Hurricane Agnes,
I think it is, 1975 maybe, during which a few houses were washed away,
so they have automated solar-powered remote stream level meters on all
the streams, and tried to not issue building permits where flooding
was possible. Though I'm told that during construction here, one
house was damaged by flooding and they ??abandoned that lot, or maybe
hoped it woudn't happen again, or maybe it never happened.

In the last year I found a government webpage which had a drawing of
my n'hood and showed where the water is during flood stage. And I'm
glad to say that the drawing (a prediction I presume) is wrong.
Becausea it has my front yard and that of several houses to the left
of mine flooded, as well as the street in front of these houses. That
has never happened in 37 years and I have reasons to think think it
could not, so the whole rating of my property as a flood zone seems
likely to be in error. I'm very happy to realize that.


Not to compare a flooded basement with what those people have, it's
still related: When the water rises to 10' or a little lower, it
overflows the manholes on the sewer that paralleles the stream, fills
the sewer and backs up through the laundry sinks in my house, the
house next to it at the same height, and the two next to that, only a
llittle higher (The houses next to those two are only a little higher
still but they don't have the problem.) One would think the water in
the sink and on the floor would be disgusting, but since the ratio of
rain-water to sewer water is maybe a million to one, at least 100,000
to one, it hasn't been at all.

But I still don't want the water, getting soaked up by anything that
can.

We had rain just two weeks ago and despite what I told them, all 3 of
my floodable neighbors had flooded basements. My next door n'bor had
big rugs drying on his lawn for two days. I told him what to do, I
even did half of it for him. I told him he needed a stopper in the
sink, with a piece of 1x jambed in between the stopper and a shelf he
has, fortunately, right above the sink, with enough weight on the
shelf, or it screwed well to the wall, that the water can't push out
the stopper. And I measured and cut him the right piece of wood. And
I told him several times, it has to be plugged all the time becuase
you won't be around to plug it when it rains. And I knew he'd mess up
because the girl who lived here before him messed up, and I told her
several times. And he was sleeping when it flooded.

But I am surprised about the other two, who have been here for quite a
while, including previous overflow-level streams**, and I told them
what to do but I guess they didnt' do it. **With one or both, I
showed her how to siphon the water out of the sink, into the sump, the
last time, and I know I talked about plugging it. This time, like
99% of the time, I had my sink plugged and I got no water.

If the water were able to stay at maximum or a little less for long
enough, and the sinks were not plugged, the basements would fill with
water to a height of 6 or 7 feet. But the stream only stays that
high for an hour or two, and the sink is a buffer, and boxes have
soaked up a bunch, but before I learned to keep the sink plugged all
the time, I've only had a quarter inch on the floor, and only once did
it get to the next room.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:42:21 -0700, AL wrote:

Micky wrote:

this is by far the hottest summer of my life.

Ours has been hot for us too. Believe the news said it is
the 6th hottest summer on record. IIRC around 26 days over
110 so far. It's killed around 6 local hikers (and 1 dog)
who underestimated the heat danger.

I have a "portable" AC in the bedroom and though i'm sure it's not as
efficient as central AC,

In the 40's when I moved to the SW desert most people here
used swamp coolers. When the humidity is low they can bring

I stayed someplace for a few days that had a swamp cooler. It was in
the hall and even with my door open, it didn't have much effect on me.
So I went to the back yard to sleep, and it was made out of gravel,
bigger than normal gravel, so it wasn't very pleasant, and it was
still hot.

But FTR, that's not the same as a portable AC, which is a real AC, but
it's not in the window or wall, and the condenser is not outside, but
right in the same device, about the size and shape of a floor radio,
if you know what that is. Then it has usually one, sometimes two, 4"
vinyl hoses, one that vents the heated air through the window to the
outside. The inefficiency is mostly that the warm hose radiates some
of the heat back, and the thing in the window can leak and isn't
insulated at best. And maybe the whole cooling part is not efficient
though it could be.

You need to empty the condensed water periodically, or you can connect
a hose, like I did and I drilled a hole in the floor, in the closet,
where the second floor overhangs the first floor, in the corner in the
rear, so it's not noticeable at all. In fact, I haven't even checked
if water is comign out. It could be that insects clogged the tube
last fall/winter/spring, but the floor is dry so I guess not.

the inside temperature down as much as 30 degrees. However
when the dew point gets above 55 coolers suck. But they were
easy on the electric bill at around 25% the cost of AC.

BTW they also actually had swamp coolers for cars that hung
outside on the window. But most of us just turned the wing
all the way around for more air which helped except when it
swept a bee into the passenger compartment.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:14:14 -0700, AL wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

Heat is uncomfortable. Cold is painful. IMO of course.

There's almost no limit to how much clothes you can put on, but there
is a limit to how much you can take off. Especially if you want to go
shopping.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:30:39 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Baltimore has been very interested in flooding since Hurricane Agnes,
I think it is, 1975 maybe, during which a few houses were washed away,

Agnes was the only time my street in Md flooded. I knew enough to buy
a lot at the top of the hill so I was OK but I had a couple of
neighbors who had 3' of water running through their house. They
actually built a house at the bottom of the hill (next to where the
creek was 12' over the bank) a few years later but I never heard of
another flood like that there. It is certainly not a question of "if"
but when.

On 08/15/2016 03:14 PM, AL wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'll take the heat all summer and I'll take the snow all winter.

Heat is uncomfortable. Cold is painful. IMO of course.

I find heat (especially on sunny days) to be much worse.

BTW, On August 8, between 4PM and 5PM, Texas set a record for
electricity use.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Error! Virus requires a different operating system."

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:30:39 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Baltimore has been very interested in flooding since Hurricane Agnes,
I think it is, 1975 maybe, during which a few houses were washed away,

Agnes was the only time my street in Md flooded. I knew enough to buy
a lot at the top of the hill so I was OK but I had a couple of
neighbors who had 3' of water running through their house. They

Do you remember their address?

actually built a house at the bottom of the hill (next to where the
creek was 12' over the bank) a few years later but I never heard of
another flood like that there. It is certainly not a question of "if"
but when.

I think Ellicott City had big trouble during Agnes, and 2 weeks ago it
had big trouble again but not in the exact same place. It's at the
bottom of a hill too.

And I'm at the bottom of a hill too. I found an online map with
better topograhpy, and I think the hill is 40 feet high which is not
that much but it still gathers a lot of water.

The stream only goes 4 or 5 miles farther upstream, so that limits how
high the flood can be.

On 08/15/2016 04:37 PM, Micky wrote:
I stayed someplace for a few days that had a swamp cooler. It was in
the hall and even with my door open, it didn't have much effect on me.
So I went to the back yard to sleep, and it was made out of gravel,
bigger than normal gravel, so it wasn't very pleasant, and it was
still hot.

Was that a Trump Hotel?