Anyone know how much water to dilute HASA pool chlorine to make household
bleach for the wife?
http://i.cubeupload.com/UqlZLO.jpg

The HASA bottle says 12.5% sodium hypochlorite.
The bleach doesn't say.

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:25:30 -0400, David Jensen
wrote:

Anyone know how much water to dilute HASA pool chlorine to make household
bleach for the wife?
http://i.cubeupload.com/UqlZLO.jpg

The HASA bottle says 12.5% sodium hypochlorite.
The bleach doesn't say.

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?

Chlorox is 5%

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 7:55:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:25:30 -0400, David Jensen
wrote:

Anyone know how much water to dilute HASA pool chlorine to make household
bleach for the wife?
http://i.cubeupload.com/UqlZLO.jpg

The HASA bottle says 12.5% sodium hypochlorite.
The bleach doesn't say.

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?

Chlorox is 5%

Yes, mixing with equal part water will give typical household bleach
concentration.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 17:05:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

mixing with equal part water will give typical household bleach
concentration.

I was diluting 2 parts HASA with 1 part water but I was just guessing based
on a pool calculator which said that 1 gallon of 6% household bleach gave a
given pool 1.6 parts per million free chlorine as compared to a gallon of
HASA 12.5% pool chlorine which gave that same pool 3.2 parts per million of
free chlorine.

Since 1.6 goes into 3.2 twice, I was mixing 2 parts of HASA to one part
water, but I wasn't sure if that was correct.

Do you think it should be 1:1 HASA to water or 2:1 HASA to water to mimic
bleach?

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:55:08 -0400, wrote:

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?
Chlorox is 5%

When I tried to figure out the answer on my own, I found that the percent
is different whether it's a percent by volume or a percent by weight or
even a percent by "trade percent" (whatever that is).

All these different ways of measuring percent are confusing to me which is
why I asked the question.

This reference said the MSDS for "Clorox Regular Bleach" says it's 6.15%
sodium hypochlorite.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/archive...hp/t-5852.html

But that still doesn't tell me which percent that is (by weight? by volume?
by available ppm of sodium hypochlorite?) so the numbers can be off by a
huge amount since I'd be comparing apples to oranges to bananas (weight
versus volume versus reactivity).

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 21:18:17 -0400, David Jensen
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:55:08 -0400, wrote:

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?
Chlorox is 5%

When I tried to figure out the answer on my own, I found that the percent
is different whether it's a percent by volume or a percent by weight or
even a percent by "trade percent" (whatever that is).

All these different ways of measuring percent are confusing to me which is
why I asked the question.

This reference said the MSDS for "Clorox Regular Bleach" says it's 6.15%
sodium hypochlorite.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/archive...hp/t-5852.html

But that still doesn't tell me which percent that is (by weight? by volume?
by available ppm of sodium hypochlorite?) so the numbers can be off by a
huge amount since I'd be comparing apples to oranges to bananas (weight
versus volume versus reactivity).

Then bear in mind it starts losing strength the moment it is made,
based on how it is stored.

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 9:15:26 PM UTC-4, David Jensen wrote:
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 17:05:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

mixing with equal part water will give typical household bleach
concentration.

I was diluting 2 parts HASA with 1 part water but I was just guessing based
on a pool calculator which said that 1 gallon of 6% household bleach gave a
given pool 1.6 parts per million free chlorine as compared to a gallon of
HASA 12.5% pool chlorine which gave that same pool 3.2 parts per million of
free chlorine.

Since 1.6 goes into 3.2 twice, I was mixing 2 parts of HASA to one part
water, but I wasn't sure if that was correct.

Do you think it should be 1:1 HASA to water or 2:1 HASA to water to mimic
bleach?

Look at it this way. Whatever good stuff that is in that gallon,
if you add water so it's two gallons, then you'll have the same
good stuff in twice as much water, making it half the strength
that it was.

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-4, David Jensen wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:55:08 -0400, wrote:

How much do I dilute HASA chlorine to make household bleach?
Chlorox is 5%

When I tried to figure out the answer on my own, I found that the percent
is different whether it's a percent by volume or a percent by weight or
even a percent by "trade percent" (whatever that is).

All these different ways of measuring percent are confusing to me which is
why I asked the question.

This reference said the MSDS for "Clorox Regular Bleach" says it's 6.15%
sodium hypochlorite.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/archive...hp/t-5852.html

But that still doesn't tell me which percent that is (by weight? by volume?
by available ppm of sodium hypochlorite?) so the numbers can be off by a
huge amount since I'd be comparing apples to oranges to bananas (weight
versus volume versus reactivity).

It doesn't really matter for your purposes if it's by weight or by
volume. If you add water by weight to double the amount or by
volume to double the amount, you're going to wind up with bleach
that is half the strength. There are some negligible differences,
but we're talking household bleach here, right?

trader_4 wrote:

Yes, mixing with equal part water will give typical household bleach
concentration.

The traditional gallon household bleach is 5%. The smaller HE containers
frequently have 6.25%.

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 00:29:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

It doesn't really matter for your purposes if it's by weight or by
volume. If you add water by weight to double the amount or by
volume to double the amount, you're going to wind up with bleach
that is half the strength. There are some negligible differences,
but we're talking household bleach here, right?

I took your advice and simply halved it.
http://i.cubeupload.com/dvzair.jpg

Halving the HASA turned 8 gallons of 12.5% "trade percentage" (sodium
hypochlorite by weight I think?) into 16 gallons of household bleach of
roughly 6% to 10% by volume (I think).

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 23:01:09 -0400, wrote:

Then bear in mind it starts losing strength the moment it is made,
based on how it is stored.

The more dilute the sodium hypochlorite is, the *longer* it lasts in the
jug.

How long?

I do not know.

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:16:47 -0300, David Jensen
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 23:01:09 -0400, wrote:

Then bear in mind it starts losing strength the moment it is made,
based on how it is stored.

The more dilute the sodium hypochlorite is, the *longer* it lasts in the
jug.

It just may seem that way because it was pretty weak to start with
;-)

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 22:47:54 -0400, wrote:

It just may seem that way because it was pretty weak to start with

No. It's actually true.
It's a chemistry thing.
But I forget why.

I took chemistry so long ago, that I forget why, but the chem teacher
drilled the decomposition concept into us at the time, just as he did redox
reactions and intimate knowledge of s and p orbitals.

I'll look it up, but, I'm positive that the stronger the hypochlorite
solution, the less stable it is - but I could also be wrong.

Googling, Wikipedia mentions that household bleach has sodium hydroxide
added to make the solution more basic, which also slows down
decomposition...
" Household bleach is, in general, a solution containing 3€“8% sodium
hypochlorite and 0.01€“0.05% sodium hydroxide; the sodium hydroxide is used
to slow the decomposition of sodium hypochlorite into sodium chloride and
sodium chlorate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

Further googling finds this CDC article
https://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/Disinfect...infection.html
which says "Hypochlorite solutions in tap water at a pH 8 stored at room
temperature (23ºC) in closed, opaque plastic containers can lose up to
40%€“50% of their free available chlorine level over 1 month."

Luckily, this stops after 30 days (why, I don't know): "Sodium hypochlorite
solution does not decompose after 30 days when stored in a closed brown
bottle."

But I'll look it up further so that I can back up what I said.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:55:08 -0400, wrote:

Chlorox is 5%

BTW, you are correct.

This says Chlorox is 5.25%:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/larc/sit...fact-sheet.pdf

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:42:55 -0300, David Jensen wrote:

No. It's actually true.
It's a chemistry thing.
But I forget why.

Turns out the keywords were "stability" and "decomposition".
Add those to the search, and the information amount is astounding!

This PDF on stability says outright what I remember from chemistry:
"Sodium hypochlorite at higher concentrations will have a faster
decomposition rate. Conversely sodium hypochlorite at lower concentrations
will have a slower decomposition rate."
http://hillbrothers.com/pdf/Product-...-Stability.pdf

Unfortunately, it also says that the metals in my tap water diluent will
increase the decomposition rate.

Apparently there are five things that affect decomposition rate:
http://www.forceflow.com/hypochlorite/PioneerHypo.pdf
1) Concentration
2) Temperature
3) pH
4) Impurities such as magnesium and calcium
5) Light

Basically:
1. Dilute bleach lasts longer
2. Colder bleach lasts longer
3. Higher pH lasts longer
4. Distilled water helps it last longer
5. Dark areas help it last longer

This one goes into the rate math, which is 4 or 5 times faster:
http://www.powellfab.com/technical_i...on_reason.aspx
"Without salt, 200 gpl available chlorine sodium hypochlorite will
decompose 4 times faster than 100 gpl product when stored at the same
temperature. With the normal amount of salt produced during the reaction,
(Cl2 + 2NaOH = NaOCl + NaCl + H2O), the decomposition rate is a factor of 5
greater for the 200 gpl product versus the 100 gpl product at the same
temperature."

Here's a guy who studied the shelf life of 5% bleach:
http://143.107.206.201/restauradora/soda/sodaingl.html
5,00% at day 0
4,96% at day 30
4,77% at day 60
4,43% at day 90
4,32% at day 120
4,26% at day 150
4,07% at day 180
3,67% at day 210
3,51% at day 240
3,23% at day 270
3,16% at day 300
2,70% at day 330
2,36% at day 360
2,19% at day 390
1,84% at day 420
1,58% at day 450
1,32% at day 480
1,14% at day 510

Roughly, it's half of what it was after a year in storage.
It's still pretty good at about 3 months to 6 months.