GE Profile Side by Side, about 20 yrs old.

It's maintaining temps but it has to run nearly non stop to do so.
Previously when I'd notice long runs it meant the condensor underneath
needed a good vacuuming & brushing. This unit always seemed sensitive to
that. But I've done that.

Also for background info, one time many years ago there seemed to be an
issue with sufficient cooling on the fridge side. (On this machine as with
many others, the freezer side runs the show in terms of the thermostat
directly controlling the refrigeration system while the fridge side is
controlled via a thermostatic bleed air vent.) I found the internal fan to
be sluggish and replaced it and the control board myself. Pretty annoying
to dismantle the evap area at the back of the freezer -- at one point one
must hang the evap on a cable to attend to this.

But I've never messed with the refrigerant circuit itself.

I know it's a sealed system and in theory there is no place for it to leak.
But who knows what 20 years of vibration can do. Also, to tell the truth
while it's a nice looking appliance, I was never impressed with the build
quality as there are refrigerant lines down in back that stick out so much
they are barely covered by the fiber board access & vent panel.

This is an R134a machine so I believe it's legal for me to charge it. The
full charge is VERY small...far less than even one can like I would use on
my car. Obviously there is no service valve.

So the question for you folks is whether it is worth buying a piercing
service valve (probably would put it on the service stub on the compressor)
and shoot in a TINY, TINY amount of gas and see if that helps before
calling a pro. Did I mention TINY?

Ancillary questions:

On HVAC, one can tell a lot about the state of things by measuring temp
drop across the evap coil. Is there any equivalent for a fridge?

What should the low side pressure be on a R134a refrigerator be? This may
be a completely different figure than for an AC system with the same
refrigerant.

Points if you recognize my handle without searching.

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 11:28:34 AM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:
GE Profile Side by Side, about 20 yrs old.

It's maintaining temps but it has to run nearly non stop to do so.
Previously when I'd notice long runs it meant the condensor underneath
needed a good vacuuming & brushing. This unit always seemed sensitive to
that. But I've done that.

Also for background info, one time many years ago there seemed to be an
issue with sufficient cooling on the fridge side. (On this machine as with
many others, the freezer side runs the show in terms of the thermostat
directly controlling the refrigeration system while the fridge side is
controlled via a thermostatic bleed air vent.) I found the internal fan to
be sluggish and replaced it and the control board myself. Pretty annoying
to dismantle the evap area at the back of the freezer -- at one point one
must hang the evap on a cable to attend to this.

But I've never messed with the refrigerant circuit itself.

I know it's a sealed system and in theory there is no place for it to leak.
But who knows what 20 years of vibration can do. Also, to tell the truth
while it's a nice looking appliance, I was never impressed with the build
quality as there are refrigerant lines down in back that stick out so much
they are barely covered by the fiber board access & vent panel.

This is an R134a machine so I believe it's legal for me to charge it. The
full charge is VERY small...far less than even one can like I would use on
my car. Obviously there is no service valve.

So the question for you folks is whether it is worth buying a piercing
service valve (probably would put it on the service stub on the compressor)
and shoot in a TINY, TINY amount of gas and see if that helps before
calling a pro. Did I mention TINY?

Ancillary questions:

On HVAC, one can tell a lot about the state of things by measuring temp
drop across the evap coil. Is there any equivalent for a fridge?

What should the low side pressure be on a R134a refrigerator be? This may
be a completely different figure than for an AC system with the same
refrigerant.

Points if you recognize my handle without searching.

I can see trying to add Freon if you can do it yourself for not much
money. But calling a pro on a 20 year old unit, IMO, is a waste.
If the Freon got out, it must have a leak somewhere. Putting a new
evaporator or whatever into a 20 year old basic fridge doesn't make
sense to me. And putting in Freon will only delay the inevitable.
That assumes the problem is a small leak, could be it's something
else.

If it's any consolation, new ones cost about half to
run compared to that old one. How much you save depends on your
electric rates, but at least $50 a year would be typical. And
that's compared to a properly working one. Given that yours is
running 24/7, it's probably much worse. If you have a KillaWatt
meter you could measure it. The new big side by side I bought a
few years ago only uses 90W when running.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:28:26 -0500, Chet Kincaid
wrote:

GE Profile Side by Side, about 20 yrs old.

It's maintaining temps but it has to run nearly non stop to do so.
Previously when I'd notice long runs it meant the condensor underneath
needed a good vacuuming & brushing. This unit always seemed sensitive to
that. But I've done that.
What is the temp balance between freezer and fridge. It there is a
huge delta (45-50 degrees) it might not be moving enough air into the
fridge side. Be sure those ducts are not iced up.

trader_4 wrote:

I can see trying to add Freon if you can do it yourself for not much
money. But calling a pro on a 20 year old unit, IMO, is a waste.
If the Freon got out, it must have a leak somewhere. Putting a new
evaporator or whatever into a 20 year old basic fridge doesn't make
sense to me. And putting in Freon will only delay the inevitable.
That assumes the problem is a small leak, could be it's something
else.

If it's any consolation, new ones cost about half to
run compared to that old one. How much you save depends on your
electric rates, but at least $50 a year would be typical. And
that's compared to a properly working one. Given that yours is
running 24/7, it's probably much worse. If you have a KillaWatt
meter you could measure it. The new big side by side I bought a
few years ago only uses 90W when running.


I suppose there is no point to speculations as to what the issue could be
besides refrigerant level. Anything from worn out compressor to internal
wear & tear debris causing a clog in a line but none if it matters if it is
not worth fixing.

You make a good point about NOT calling a pro. Because while they would be
much better able to make a diagnosis and COULD (maybe) fix what's wrong,
there is probably little they could do that is WORTH doing other than
shooting in some gas if that's what it is.

On the other hand, if it's a tiny leak that requires gassing it up a few
times a year (or once every twenty) I could live with that.

So I guess that points to proceeding with the experiment.

On 6/25/2016 12:25 PM, Chet Kincaid wrote:


On the other hand, if it's a tiny leak that requires gassing it up a few
times a year (or once every twenty) I could live with that.

So I guess that points to proceeding with the experiment.


Gassing it yourself may not be bad, but to pay a pro to come a few times
a year is more than the cost of a new basic fridge.

After 20 years I'd buy a new one. Just did a few months back replacing
a 22 year old unit.

What is the temp balance between freezer and fridge. It there is a
huge delta (45-50 degrees) it might not be moving enough air into the
fridge side. Be sure those ducts are not iced up.

-2° and 38° with the freezer stat on normal mid range position while the
fridge damper stat is at coldest.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Gassing it yourself may not be bad, but to pay a pro to come a few times
a year is more than the cost of a new basic fridge.

After 20 years I'd buy a new one. Just did a few months back replacing
a 22 year old unit.


Probably though there is a little bit of sentimental value as the unit was
one my late mom selected a year or two after Dad passed on for no other
reason (the prior Amana was and is still functional) than she wanted it.

Is it safe to presume that the stub line coming directly from the
compressor dome (no other connections) represents low side?

On 2016-06-25 11:28 AM, Chet Kincaid wrote:
GE Profile Side by Side, about 20 yrs old.

It's maintaining temps but it has to run nearly non stop to do so.
Previously when I'd notice long runs it meant the condensor underneath
needed a good vacuuming & brushing. This unit always seemed sensitive to
that. But I've done that.

Also for background info, one time many years ago there seemed to be an
issue with sufficient cooling on the fridge side. (On this machine as with
many others, the freezer side runs the show in terms of the thermostat
directly controlling the refrigeration system while the fridge side is
controlled via a thermostatic bleed air vent.) I found the internal fan to
be sluggish and replaced it and the control board myself. Pretty annoying
to dismantle the evap area at the back of the freezer -- at one point one
must hang the evap on a cable to attend to this.

But I've never messed with the refrigerant circuit itself.

I know it's a sealed system and in theory there is no place for it to leak.
But who knows what 20 years of vibration can do. Also, to tell the truth
while it's a nice looking appliance, I was never impressed with the build
quality as there are refrigerant lines down in back that stick out so much
they are barely covered by the fiber board access & vent panel.

This is an R134a machine so I believe it's legal for me to charge it. The
full charge is VERY small...far less than even one can like I would use on
my car. Obviously there is no service valve.

So the question for you folks is whether it is worth buying a piercing
service valve (probably would put it on the service stub on the compressor)
and shoot in a TINY, TINY amount of gas and see if that helps before
calling a pro. Did I mention TINY?

Ancillary questions:

On HVAC, one can tell a lot about the state of things by measuring temp
drop across the evap coil. Is there any equivalent for a fridge?

What should the low side pressure be on a R134a refrigerator be? This may
be a completely different figure than for an AC system with the same
refrigerant.

Points if you recognize my handle without searching.

Make sure the freezer compartment vents are not blocked. i.e. too much
food shoved against them, fridge will run forever and not achieve a thing.

--
Froz....

Chet,
Have you checked the door seals? What you describe could be caused by
leaking seals. Get out a dollar bill and check all around the doors.

Dave M.

On 6/25/2016 11:28 AM, Chet Kincaid wrote:


This is an R134a machine so I believe it's legal for me to charge it. The

I'd suggest you research this, before the
wrath of the EPA visits your home.

I had a look at the EPA web site, and it is
not clear.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 6:11:05 PM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I had a look at the EPA web site, and it is
not clear.

Not clear?
That's probably due to your local smog conditions.
Now watch 'em pass some new regulations.
STG

On 6/25/2016 9:35 PM, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 6:11:05 PM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I had a look at the EPA web site, and it is
not clear.

Not clear?
That's probably due to your local smog conditions.
Now watch 'em pass some new regulations.
STG


Due to smog, HO no longer legal to add refrigerant
to their own machines. Needs EPA certified tech.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

On 6/25/2016 9:35 PM, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 6:11:05 PM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I had a look at the EPA web site, and it is
not clear.

Not clear?
That's probably due to your local smog conditions.
Now watch 'em pass some new regulations.
STG


Due to smog, HO no longer legal to add refrigerant
to their own machines. Needs EPA certified tech.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..The way supreme court dictates you Poker will need certification to have
sex with your wife

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, David L. Martel wrote:
Chet,
Have you checked the door seals? What you describe could be caused by
leaking seals. Get out a dollar bill and check all around the doors.

Dave M.

Another vote for door seals. No way refrigerant is low if you're maintaining the freezer at that temperature. Door seals on a unit that old are almost guaranteed to be leaking.

Replacement is neither cheap nor easy, by the way.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd suggest you research this, before the
wrath of the EPA visits your home.


An additional complication: I am still researching this but from what I
gather, R134a when used in a freezer runs at a partial vacuum on the
suction side which introduces the risk of introducing air into the system.

So IF (still a big IF) I was going to do this, probably best to put the
self-piercer on while the machine is not running and at positive pressure
everywhere. Purge the hose with gas from the can. Apply hose. Open
service valve. Maybe loosen hose at the can end to further blow it out
with gas from the system. (I do it that way with my car.) With the
system not running both the can and the system should be at the same
pressure. Run the system. Open the can and introduce just a wee bit of
gas. Close everything but leave attached. See if any improvement or if
worse.

TimR wrote:
Another vote for door seals. No way refrigerant is low if you're
maintaining the freezer at that temperature. Door seals on a unit
that old are almost guaranteed to be leaking.

Replacement is neither cheap nor easy, by the way.

I am giving this serious consideration. I do not see any gaps (other than
those, on the fridge side) created by the tiny wires for a couple of
temperature probes. The one I have on the freezer side is radio connected.

BUT, I am able to slide a paper around under the seal so there may be
something to this.

So as soon as I won't need access for a while I am going to tape over the
freezer side with plastic packaging tape. The fridge side I can probably
only do three sides. (I've removed the probe wires.) Worth a shot.

Or is the fridge side more important on this? The thermostatic door that
bleeds freezer air into the fridge does not operate with any pressure; I
think it is suction into the freezer side that pulls air in. You don't
feel any air at the vent with door open. So maybe if seals are poor it's
drawing in outside air to the fridge side and dissipating from the freezer
side.

On 6/26/2016 9:04 AM, Chet Kincaid wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd suggest you research this, before the
wrath of the EPA visits your home.


An additional complication: I am still researching this but from what I
gather, R134a when used in a freezer runs at a partial vacuum on the
suction side which introduces the risk of introducing air into the system.

So IF (still a big IF) I was going to do this, probably best to put the
self-piercer on while the machine is not running and at positive pressure


I consider it unwise for me to give advice to uncertified
HO's, on matters that require a certificate.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:28:26 -0500, Chet Kincaid
wrote:


On HVAC, one can tell a lot about the state of things by measuring temp
drop across the evap coil. Is there any equivalent for a fridge?

Why wouldn't there be. For that matter, I'm guessing you can tell
something just by seeing how hot the condensing coils are. Maybe
with your fingers or an IR thermometer.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I consider it unwise for me to give advice to uncertified
HO's, on matters that require a certificate.

Isn't that hilarious? I can dump R134a into the atmosphere by the gallon
if it relates to automotive A/C but if I wanted to do something on a
machine whose entire charge is less than half of a can you get at Walmart,
that would be illegal.

Micky wrote:
Why wouldn't there be. For that matter, I'm guessing you can tell
something just by seeing how hot the condensing coils are. Maybe
with your fingers or an IR thermometer.

Barely warm at all. Air coming off them (it's a fan-blown condenser) is
hardly any warmer than room air being drawn in.

TimR wrote:
Another vote for door seals. No way refrigerant is low if you're
maintaining the freezer at that temperature. Door seals on a unit
that old are almost guaranteed to be leaking.

Replacement is neither cheap nor easy, by the way.

Here's the countervaling point, however. Bad door seals would make the
machine work a lot harder. There should be lots of hot air coming off the
condenser (which is fan-cooled). In fact the condenser is barely warm at
all and the air coming off it barely any warmer than ambient air.

FWIW, the compressor dome is hot but not excessively. I can place my
entire hand on it and hold it there for a dozen seconds before it becomes
uncomfortable. (Real scientific, I know.)

That still doesn't prove low charge as there could be any number of things
wrong such as a poor compressor, an internal clog, etc. None of which is
worth repair on an older unit like this.

And even if the charge was low, there's the question of where it's leaking
and how long will a recharge last.

Taping around the seals as much as I could and leaving it that way all day
seemed to have little effect.

Anyway, that's where things stand.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:12:07 -0400
Stormin Mormon wrote:




I consider it unwise for me to give advice to uncertified
HO's, on matters that require a certificate.


Pathetic little cop out...very weak on your part

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 9:41:54 PM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:
TimR wrote:
Another vote for door seals. No way refrigerant is low if you're
maintaining the freezer at that temperature. Door seals on a unit
that old are almost guaranteed to be leaking.

Replacement is neither cheap nor easy, by the way.

Here's the countervaling point, however. Bad door seals would make the
machine work a lot harder. There should be lots of hot air coming off the
condenser (which is fan-cooled). In fact the condenser is barely warm at
all and the air coming off it barely any warmer than ambient air.

I dunno then.

Door seals would leak a small amount of air, so the amount of heat rejected would be small. But I don't picture a compressor running "just a little." It can't really run slow, can it? And yet without enough charge it shouldn't hold temperature at all, yet it does. A bad thermostat would result in it getting too cold, unless a massive air leak. So, I admit defeat.

When I had my main refrigerator repaired (it needed a new transfer unit between freezer and fridge section) the repair guy noticed the door seals were old. He taped them back together. He said the maintenance agreements never cover door seals, and it would cost about $200. He also said I could buy the seal and try to put it in myself, but it was a pain in the butt even for experienced repair techs, it just doesn't want to fit into the little slot.

I just replaced my small one (18 cu ft) in the basement. Holy crap, it was hard getting the old one out and up the stairs. The new one is much lighter.

TimR wrote in
:

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 9:41:54 PM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:
TimR wrote:

I dunno then.

Door seals would leak a small amount of air, so the amount of heat
rejected would be small. But I don't picture a compressor running
"just a little." It can't really run slow, can it? And yet without
enough charge it shouldn't hold temperature at all, yet it does. A
bad thermostat would result in it getting too cold, unless a massive
air leak. So, I admit defeat.

I don't mean the compressor was running slow. I think the compressor is
doing what it is paid to do but it's running nearly 24/7 to do it.

Air off the condenser used to be very warm; now you can barely tell it's
warmer than ambient. If it was door seals there should be at least as
much heat to pump out as normally plus the added load from the leaky
seals.

It need not be low charge. From what I gather R134a machines can run at
partial vacuum at the temps found in a freezer so if there was a leak on
the low side, the system could be compromised by air getting pulled in.
I could open up things and look around and see if there is any suspicious
joints. Of course that would mean evacuation and charging if the break
can be repaired at all.

Lots of possibilities. Few that would be worth pro repair. So I guess
anything is worth a shot if the alternative is replacing it entirely.

On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 2:18:24 PM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:
TimR wrote in
:

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 9:41:54 PM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:
TimR wrote:

I dunno then.

Door seals would leak a small amount of air, so the amount of heat
rejected would be small. But I don't picture a compressor running
"just a little." It can't really run slow, can it? And yet without
enough charge it shouldn't hold temperature at all, yet it does. A
bad thermostat would result in it getting too cold, unless a massive
air leak. So, I admit defeat.

I don't mean the compressor was running slow. I think the compressor is
doing what it is paid to do but it's running nearly 24/7 to do it.

Air off the condenser used to be very warm; now you can barely tell it's
warmer than ambient. If it was door seals there should be at least as
much heat to pump out as normally plus the added load from the leaky
seals.


I agree with your analysis. I can see leaky door seals making it run
more than usual, but it doesn't fit with it running 24/7 and the
condenser being barely warm.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:33:53 -0500, Chet Kincaid
wrote:

Micky wrote:
Why wouldn't there be. For that matter, I'm guessing you can tell
something just by seeing how hot the condensing coils are. Maybe
with your fingers or an IR thermometer.

Barely warm at all. Air coming off them (it's a fan-blown condenser) is
hardly any warmer than room air being drawn in.

Well I'm no authority, but that sounds like low freon or a bad
compressor. What are compressors like when they are bad? Do they
work at all? Do they make a different noise? I don't know.

A) if adding a little bit helps, why are you calling a repairman next?
Because you don't have a guage.

B) Are you sure you will put the valve where the repairman will accept
it? How did you come up with the location.

Other questions, Is it easier for the compressor to run when it's low
on freon, since it doenst have so much gas to compress? If it is
easier, does that lower the electricty used anywhere near as much as
the fridge cooling goes down. That is, now that it runs almost all
the time, are you using a lot more electricty than before, or only a
little? It would use the same amount if it weren't for overhead in
more than one place, so I don't know how much more it would be using
now. Will the Kill-a Watt meter work with something as big as a
fridge. If so, you could compare your fridge to a good one and see
how much electricity is being used extra.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:40:43 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 6:58:12 PM UTC-4, David L. Martel wrote:
Chet,
Have you checked the door seals? What you describe could be caused by
leaking seals. Get out a dollar bill and check all around the doors.

Dave M.

Another vote for door seals. No way refrigerant is low if you're maintaining the freezer at that temperature. Door seals on a unit that old are almost guaranteed to be leaking.

Replacement is neither cheap nor easy, by the way.

Mine are 37 years old and not leaking afaict but I will try a dollar
bill. What should I do with the dollar bill?

About a foot of the seal is cracked opne on the side, but nothing has
fallen out and when the door is shut, it all compresses and I don't
think that crack means any air is getting out, or that it's conducting
warmth in. Can I use a kll-o-watt meter on something this big.

Yeah, the univeral replacement is over 100 iirc. A lot for a simple
piece of rubber and stuffing. Though I haven't checked very
thoroughly.

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 18:57:26 -0400, Micky
wrote:


Yeah, the univeral replacement is over 100 iirc. A lot for a simple
piece of rubber and stuffing. Though I haven't checked very
thoroughly.

I'm not saying at all that this is the OP's probelm.

But repair clinic should count the number of hits for me, in stead of
making me do it. There are 50!!! though some vary only by color, and
6 are not avaliable. . (I guess the law that they be white has been
repealed. )

Still htey vary from 30 to 145, though most are 70 to 95, and the good
ones are long and require special shpiping. I guess t hey are stiff
and the cheap ones roll up.

I think I remember now that my own fridge doesn't have the oem part
available. I'm glad I can get what I need for less than 100. Maybe
i'll get almond color or pecan color or walnut and pretend I've
remodeled my whole fridge.

BTW, on three occasions soemthing was stuck in the little fan, for
weeks each time, and I thought that would make it run hot and wear out
sooner, but it doens't seem to have happened.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 08:04:14 -0500, Chet Kincaid
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd suggest you research this, before the
wrath of the EPA visits your home.


An additional complication: I am still researching this but from what I
gather, R134a when used in a freezer runs at a partial vacuum on the
suction side which introduces the risk of introducing air into the system.

So IF (still a big IF) I was going to do this, probably best to put the
self-piercer on while the machine is not running and at positive pressure
everywhere. Purge the hose with gas from the can. Apply hose. Open
service valve. Maybe loosen hose at the can end to further blow it out
with gas from the system. (I do it that way with my car.) With the

The instructions I had for a car say the car sould be running, and I
think that included when you first hooked up the can. I'm not sure
why that would matter however, except that you can't get much in when
the car isn't running.

system not running both the can and the system should be at the same
pressure. Run the system. Open the can and introduce just a wee bit of
gas. Close everything but leave attached. See if any improvement or if
worse.

You have a point. The air coming off the condenser should be warmer
almost immediately.

When I had a parathyroid gland removed, they measured my PTH during
the surgery, which was only 30 minutes iirc, and it had already gone
down.

OT, but I had a can I only used part of, and I left it with the
tapping-valve on for I think it was a year or more. It still had
pressure, so I think it hadn't leaked at all.

On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 6:16:36 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

When I had a parathyroid gland removed, they measured my PTH during
the surgery, which was only 30 minutes iirc, and it had already gone
down.

....you're rambling again...meds?

Micky wrote:
The instructions I had for a car say the car sould be running, and I
think that included when you first hooked up the can. I'm not sure
why that would matter however, except that you can't get much in when
the car isn't running.

Just being cautious because the temps involved might have the evap running
at part vacuum. Would run it while adding anything. Don't want air sucked
in.

So I had a dream about this.

In my dream, EPA regs did not apply to this situation.

In my dream, I put a piercer on the compressor stubby (installing while
off).

In my dream I had all sorts of hoses, gauges, and adapters.

In my dream it barely read any pressure and went to near zero when I
started it up.

In my dream I put in a bit of gas from little can.

In my dream, I thought the air coming over the condenser warmed up a
little.

In my dream, a tube in the area where I previously wasn't even sure if it
was high side or low side got cold and started dripping condensation.

However, in my dream, it had little effect on temps or non stop running.

In my dream, the aforementioned tube was iced over by morning. (In my
dream I advanced the timer to put it into a defrost cycle.)

In my dream, I wasn't sure if I accomplished good or evil.

In my dream, as well as in reality, if this really is a level issue and I
just don't know what I'm doing, I would gladly call in a pro.

In general, I'd call for pro help IF there's a chance they can do something
that is worth doing on this machine. In the best of all scenarios, I'd
rather fix than replace.

On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 7:55:02 AM UTC-4, Chet Kincaid wrote:


In general, I'd call for pro help IF there's a chance they can do something
that is worth doing on this machine. In the best of all scenarios, I'd
rather fix than replace.

IDK why you're so fixated on fixing. I'm no expert on fridges, but from
experience with them and other AC like systems, once you have symptoms
like this, it's usually big trouble. With a home central AC or a car,
it could be a Schrader valve, some Freon leaked out, it can be easily
and cost effectively fixed. But other than that, you're down to having
a leak or a bad compressor. If it's a leak, more likely it's a component
like the evaporator, than a leak in a line. But whatever it is, if you
have to call a pro, I see two general outcomes:

A - They diagnose it and its going to cost $400+ to fix.

B - They charge you $125 and tell you it's not worth fixing.

Is A worth it on a 20 year old fridge? If it's a $10K Viking fridge
I can see it. If it's a fridge you can get for $1000? And factor
in that a new fridge is probably going to save you maybe $50 a year
in operating cost, it will look brand new, have new features, etc.

I replaced the 25 year old one here a few years ago. It was still running
fine, but was looking dated and it also stuck out in front of the
cabinets. I started looking around, realized that they have counter
depth ones that are a bit taller, but hold the same capacity and fit
flush to the cabinets. So, I kept my eyes open, was in no hurry
and one day at Best Buy they had a stainless steel KitchenAid floor
model at half price. I got a $2800 fridge for $1400. I had to do
some work on the cabinets to get it to fit, but it was well worth
it. It's now flush, looks like a built-in. It also has crushed ice
and I have to say I like that a lot. Much better than cubes for
putting in glasses. It cools instantly, evenly, and you don't have
to deal with the cubes when you're drinking.

I just bought a replacement one for the basement. It doesn't have to do much more than drinks, leftovers, frozen pizza. It was much lighter than the one it replaced, which was a pain to get up the stairs. I won't say what I paid, it was embarrassingly low.

But weird thing, the coils are all exposed, on the back. Cleaning is a snap. I can't remember ever having a fridge this easy to maintain. It would be easy to damage them moving.

On 6/28/2016 8:41 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A - They diagnose it and its going to cost $400+ to fix.

B - They charge you $125 and tell you it's not worth fixing.

Is A worth it on a 20 year old fridge? If it's a $10K Viking fridge
I can see it. If it's a fridge you can get for $1000? And factor
in that a new fridge is probably going to save you maybe $50 a year
in operating cost, it will look brand new, have new features, etc.


Similar experience with a washing machine. I paid $85 for him to tell
me to buy a new one. That was cheaper than average. Fix would have been
$500.

A while back I replace an old fridge with a newer one that was 40%
larger and electric bell wend down $10 a month.

On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 10:29:13 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 8:41 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A - They diagnose it and its going to cost $400+ to fix.

B - They charge you $125 and tell you it's not worth fixing.

Is A worth it on a 20 year old fridge? If it's a $10K Viking fridge
I can see it. If it's a fridge you can get for $1000? And factor
in that a new fridge is probably going to save you maybe $50 a year
in operating cost, it will look brand new, have new features, etc.


Similar experience with a washing machine. I paid $85 for him to tell
me to buy a new one. That was cheaper than average. Fix would have been
$500.

A while back I replace an old fridge with a newer one that was 40%
larger and electric bell wend down $10 a month.

My new one uses about half the old one. I used a KillaWatt on it.
But I don't think I really measured
it right. I just looked at power in watts when both were running under
normal conditions. All I showed was that it uses half when running.
It could also be that the new one spends more or less time running,
hopefully less .

On 6/28/2016 7:54 AM, Chet Kincaid wrote:
So I had a dream about this.

In my dream, EPA regs did not apply to this situation.

In my dream, I put a piercer on the compressor stubby (installing while
off).

In my dream I had all sorts of hoses, gauges, and adapters.

In my dream it barely read any pressure and went to near zero when I
started it up.

In my dream I put in a bit of gas from little can.

In my dream, I thought the air coming over the condenser warmed up a
little.

In my dream, a tube in the area where I previously wasn't even sure if it
was high side or low side got cold and started dripping condensation.

However, in my dream, it had little effect on temps or non stop running.

In my dream, the aforementioned tube was iced over by morning. (In my
dream I advanced the timer to put it into a defrost cycle.)

In my dream, I wasn't sure if I accomplished good or evil.

In my dream, as well as in reality, if this really is a level issue and I
just don't know what I'm doing, I would gladly call in a pro.

In general, I'd call for pro help IF there's a chance they can do something
that is worth doing on this machine. In the best of all scenarios, I'd
rather fix than replace.


I had a dream, that I was tall and handsome and women
loved me. Then I got up, stood on my three step stool,
and started to brush my one remaining tooth.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:58:08 +0100, David L. Martel wrote:

Chet,
Have you checked the door seals? What you describe could be caused by
leaking seals. Get out a dollar bill and check all around the doors.

Dave M.

Do you guys still use dollar bills? Are they plastic like the Aussie ones? Ours are mostly paper, and the lowest note we have is 5 pounds (about 8 dollars), and they get all worn out as it is. Surely the dollar bills would get worn to nothing?

--
You know you've spent too much time on the computer when you spill milk and the first thing you think is, 'Edit, Undo.'

"James Wilkinson" writes:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:58:08 +0100, David L. Martel wrote:

Chet,
Have you checked the door seals? What you describe could be caused by
leaking seals. Get out a dollar bill and check all around the doors.

Dave M.

Do you guys still use dollar bills? Are they plastic like the Aussie ones? Ours are mostly paper, and the lowest note we have is 5 pounds (about 8 dollars), and they get all worn out as it is. Surely the dollar bills would get worn to nothing?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._dollar_ bill

On 6/28/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._dollar_ bill


We gave up our 1 pound note (the government decided, not us) a decade
ago. It's stupid to use paper for such a small denomination. It's
going to wear out far too quickly.


They tried dollar coins twice and a two dollar bill once. Miserable
failures as people just refused to use them. The paper should just be
eliminated forcing the issue.

Pennies should be eliminated too. Waste of money making the money.