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Default bye-bye land line telephone

Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.

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On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 7:43:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


Yes, one way is to do what you said. Disconnect the house wiring
from the phone company at the box and run a wire from the new hub
to the house phone wiring. Or if there is a house phone jack near the
hub, disconnect the phone company at the box, then run a wire from
the house jack to the hub.

Another way would be to put the hub where you have a cordless phone
base station and just use cordless in the house. That's what I did.
You can get a new 4 phones plus answering machine for $50
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Default bye-bye land line telephone

On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.


frown Your choice. (We keep our land line because it has mandated
availability/reliability guarantees)

The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?


Presumably, all that same "number"?

1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface


You need to see what the VoIP gateway is capable of driving before
you saddle it with 4 loads. At the very least, you will need to
verify how many "REN's" (Ringer Equivalence Numbers) it can drive.
Then, examine each of your "3 or 4 home telephones" to see what sort
of REN's each represents. If your loads exceed the capabilities of
the VoIP gateway, you'll have to take other steps to make them work.

2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your interface
box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the incoming line).
Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the nearest "telephone
jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all of the other, similar,
jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home
(often on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try
to chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.



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Default bye-bye land line telephone

On 5/11/2016 7:04 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the "not
connected" message when used.



[snip]

The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your
interface box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the
incoming line). Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the
nearest "telephone jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all
of the other, similar, jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home (often
on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try to
chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.


Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.



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On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:04:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.


frown Your choice. (We keep our land line because it has mandated
availability/reliability guarantees)

The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?


Presumably, all that same "number"?

1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface


You need to see what the VoIP gateway is capable of driving before
you saddle it with 4 loads. At the very least, you will need to
verify how many "REN's" (Ringer Equivalence Numbers) it can drive.
Then, examine each of your "3 or 4 home telephones" to see what sort
of REN's each represents. If your loads exceed the capabilities of
the VoIP gateway, you'll have to take other steps to make them work.

2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your interface
box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the incoming line).
Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the nearest "telephone
jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all of the other, similar,
jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home
(often on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try
to chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.



Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?
I did keep my phone number. I will lose phone service for power
outages and for internet system outages, and also the 911 will be
less effective. But the Bell bill has been climbing steadily for 20
years - ~ $ 75. per month compared to $ 20. for the internet
phone. I also switched sat TV from Bell Expressvu - to Shaw -
free receiver; install; no contract ; slightly better programming -
for slightly less money .. ~ $ 65. per month.
The "stay with us " phone calls from Bell were quite lame -
they are not interested in keeping the minimal users -
they are looking for the bigger fish.
I suggested that they sell a " 911 only " plan - for people who
cringe at losing this great feature - it would generate a little
income from otherwise lost customers and provide a continued contact
to customers for future business .. and be a feel good thing -
something lacking - I'd pay a few bucks for it.
John T.

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On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 6:43:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


Disconnect the the phone company line at the interface box outside. Then plug a phone cable from your VoIP box to the phone jack on the wall and it will backfeed all the other phones from the outside phone box. You don't need a new wire. You may need a doubler for the jack where you plug in your VoIP box if you are going to use a phone there. K.I.S.S. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Simple Monster
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On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 7:04 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the "not
connected" message when used.



[snip]

The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your
interface box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the
incoming line). Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the
nearest "telephone jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all
of the other, similar, jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home (often
on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try to
chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.


Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.




Thanks for the ideas - much appreciated.
I'm leaning toward the cordless phone option ..
We have a 2-phone cordless now - buy another & a Y-adapter
or replace with a 4 phone set ...
I just hate the idea of scrapping these gadgets every 5 years !
.... my 3 home phones are all 20 years old & working fine.
John T.



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On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 7:29:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:04:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.


frown Your choice. (We keep our land line because it has mandated
availability/reliability guarantees)

The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?


Presumably, all that same "number"?

1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface


You need to see what the VoIP gateway is capable of driving before
you saddle it with 4 loads. At the very least, you will need to
verify how many "REN's" (Ringer Equivalence Numbers) it can drive.
Then, examine each of your "3 or 4 home telephones" to see what sort
of REN's each represents. If your loads exceed the capabilities of
the VoIP gateway, you'll have to take other steps to make them work.

2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your interface
box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the incoming line).
Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the nearest "telephone
jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all of the other, similar,
jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home
(often on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try
to chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.



Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?
I did keep my phone number. I will lose phone service for power
outages and for internet system outages, and also the 911 will be
less effective. But the Bell bill has been climbing steadily for 20
years - ~ $ 75. per month compared to $ 20. for the internet
phone. I also switched sat TV from Bell Expressvu - to Shaw -
free receiver; install; no contract ; slightly better programming -
for slightly less money .. ~ $ 65. per month.
The "stay with us " phone calls from Bell were quite lame -
they are not interested in keeping the minimal users -
they are looking for the bigger fish.
I suggested that they sell a " 911 only " plan - for people who
cringe at losing this great feature - it would generate a little
income from otherwise lost customers and provide a continued contact
to customers for future business .. and be a feel good thing -
something lacking - I'd pay a few bucks for it.
John T.


My brother just got cable Internet only service and the modem has VoIP capability if he wants to purchase it from the cable company. He has his own VoIP adapters already. The modem has a compartment for a backup battery so it will continue to operate during a power outage. He already has APC battery backup units and has plugged the modem into one of those. Check your modem to see if it has a battery or plug it into a backup unit. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Backup Monster
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On 5/11/2016 7:29 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:04:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:



[snip]


Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?
I did keep my phone number. I will lose phone service for power
outages and for internet system outages, and also the 911 will be
less effective. But the Bell bill has been climbing steadily for 20
years - ~ $ 75. per month compared to $ 20. for the internet
phone. I also switched sat TV from Bell Expressvu - to Shaw -
free receiver; install; no contract ; slightly better programming -
for slightly less money .. ~ $ 65. per month.
The "stay with us " phone calls from Bell were quite lame -
they are not interested in keeping the minimal users -
they are looking for the bigger fish.
I suggested that they sell a " 911 only " plan - for people who
cringe at losing this great feature - it would generate a little
income from otherwise lost customers and provide a continued contact
to customers for future business .. and be a feel good thing -
something lacking - I'd pay a few bucks for it.


A good uninterruptible power supply will keep you in business through
MOST power outages. We don't use one with the Gigaset but only because
if we go to fire up the standby generator in a prolonged outage, the
wall warts for the Gigaset and the Panasonic cordless phone is on one of
the "emergency" circuits.

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On 5/11/2016 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 7:04 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM,
wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the "not
connected" message when used.



[snip]

The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your
interface box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the
incoming line). Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the
nearest "telephone jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all
of the other, similar, jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home (often
on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try to
chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.


Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.




Thanks for the ideas - much appreciated.
I'm leaning toward the cordless phone option ..
We have a 2-phone cordless now - buy another & a Y-adapter
or replace with a 4 phone set ...
I just hate the idea of scrapping these gadgets every 5 years !
... my 3 home phones are all 20 years old & working fine.
John T.


John, if you follow through in the manner that Don, I and others suggest
you can pretend that you're still bent over and taking it from Ma
Bell/AT&T and buy what you want to use in the house, when you want to
buy it. That said, the quality of the newer 5ghz cordless phones is
really quite good. As I said, we miss landlines not at all.



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On 5/11/2016 5:29 PM, wrote:
Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?


"Old" phones (i.e., from Western Electric -- the sorts with real
BELLS in them) tend to be 1 REN -- the telco actually had to
deliver the power to move the clapper to strike the bell.

Newer phones tend to have much lower REN's -- they "sense"
the "ring voltage" (90 volts) and tell the little computer
(damn near everything has a computer of some type!) "Hey,
there's an incoming call!".

The little computer than figures out how to "ring A bell"
(cricket chirp, etc.) to alert the user. Often, using
"power" available from a battery pack or wall wart power
adapter (i.e., the phone company is not supplying the "ring
power"!)

By contrast, our "cordless phone set" has a REN of 0.1 and
has to deal with four phones plus the answering machine
(all wrapped in that 0.1 REN).

The takeaway, here, is to consider the *types* of phones that
you have. Anything recent will have a "REN number" printed
on the device, somewhere.

I did keep my phone number. I will lose phone service for power
outages and for internet system outages, and also the 911 will be
less effective. But the Bell bill has been climbing steadily for 20
years - ~ $ 75. per month compared to $ 20. for the internet
phone.


Our land line is about $30 -- most of that being taxes and fees.
We have no fancy features. No long distance service (we use
calling cards or SWMBO's cell phone for that and sidestep those
additional fees). Her cell phone runs a bit less than $10/month.
And, our ISP is $20. No CATV. So, our "communications costs"
are ~$60/month.

I also switched sat TV from Bell Expressvu - to Shaw -
free receiver; install; no contract ; slightly better programming -
for slightly less money .. ~ $ 65. per month.
The "stay with us " phone calls from Bell were quite lame -
they are not interested in keeping the minimal users -
they are looking for the bigger fish.


TPC is making a huge mistake, IMO. They've got all that copper
and CO equipment. They should be "GIVING AWAY" services to keep
eeking value out of it. E.g., instead of trying to ding people $60
for DSL, give it to them for $20 -- let them buy faster speeds
if they are shy on capacity (capacity that is not SOLD is WASTED!)

I suggested that they sell a " 911 only " plan - for people who
cringe at losing this great feature - it would generate a little
income from otherwise lost customers and provide a continued contact
to customers for future business .. and be a feel good thing -
something lacking - I'd pay a few bucks for it.


Here, they have been trying to replace wired land lines with
WIRELESS land lines. It gives them a way around the regulations
that apply to *wired* delivery.

(Why buy a wireless land line that you can't CARRY WITH YOU???)
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On 5/11/2016 5:53 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
A good uninterruptible power supply will keep you in business through MOST
power outages.


We have probably a dozen 1500VA UPS's scattered around the house.
They come in handy in an outage as you can plug a CFL or LED lamp
into one and have LOTS of light (instead of living with flashlights
or candles). Figure 10-15W for a CFL gives you many HOURS on one
of these beasts (battery capacity is ~170WHr; assume 70% efficiency
gives you 120WHr -- so, almost 10 hours for a "60W equivalent" CFL)

[Neighbors always wonder why our house is so brightly lit
when they are in the dark! : ]

We can access our internet provider as this computer and
"modem" are similarly powered.

I keep a handheld UPS on the bookshelf that I can carry to
wherever (very small capacity.

We don't use one with the Gigaset but only because if we go to
fire up the standby generator in a prolonged outage, the wall warts for the
Gigaset and the Panasonic cordless phone is on one of the "emergency" circuits.


The "base station" for our cordless phone uses the battery in the
*phone* (if it is sitting in the cradle) to power the base station
in an outage. So, the answering machine continues to work -- as
do the *other* cordless handsets (you just can't remove the handset
that happens to be *in* the base station!)

This is one of those "Why the hell didn't folks think of this 20 years ago??"

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On 5/11/2016 6:19 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
Other advice is to REALLY MAKE SURE that the cordless units are the same,
i.e. I took great pains to ensure that my 2nd set of cordless Panasonic
phones corresponded to the same electronic 'standard', but the new ones
don't fit into the old charging bases, not even as required to 'mate' the
handset to the radio ID of the base, let alone charge the batteries. So I
have to remember which handsets go into which charging bases. (Actually, I
don't. I just try whatever handset needs charging into a succession of
bases until I find one that fits...)


Even this can go wrong!

My folks picked up two sets of "dual handset" units. In short
order, NONE of them were working! Seems they really wanted to be
recharged in the same place that they were initially "paired".
You couldn't just stick them into any place that *seemed*
appropriate.

I ended up having to put colored dots on each handset and base/charger
so they would know where each one "belonged".

Our current cordless set allows you to type in a name for the
phone (e.g., Kitchen, Living Room, etc.). While not essential, one
of the "speakerphones" has failed (and I am too lazy to take the
flimsy plastic thing apart to figure out why!). So, we are
careful about where we leave that handset "charging".
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On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:59:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 7:43:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


Yes, one way is to do what you said. Disconnect the house wiring
from the phone company at the box and run a wire from the new hub
to the house phone wiring. Or if there is a house phone jack near the
hub, disconnect the phone company at the box, then run a wire from
the house jack to the hub.

Another way would be to put the hub where you have a cordless phone
base station and just use cordless in the house. That's what I did.
You can get a new 4 phones plus answering machine for $50


Why not just unplug "the house" from the Dmark box outside and plug
the output of your VOIP into any empty jack. They are all wired
together. They don't know where the signal comes from.
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On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:43:45 -0400, wrote:

Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


My OOMA has one RJ-11. It's centrally located by my computer.
When I got it the OOMA, I ran a wire from it to where the old Comcast
phone modem wires were attached to the house wiring, and swapped them.
I used two IDEAL 85-950 UY-I, 2-Wire Butt Splice IDC, which fits
common phone wire.
My phone service was changed from Ma Bell to ATandT to Comcast
over the years, so the entrance is sort of a mess of wires. I took
the easy path and just disconnected the Comcast splices, since all my
phones worked with that splicing. And all 4 work with the OOMA.
But this is all in my unfinished basement.
Maybe your best bet is to wire to the nearest jack backside.
Depends on where you feel comfortable running the wire.
You should disconnect the Ma Bell wires and tape them off.



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John,

I'm leaning toward the cordless phone option.


When I first switched to VOIP, I simply disconnected the incoming cable
from the phone company and fed back through the existing phone wiring in
the house. It worked fine.

However, somewhere down the line I had a problem with the phone wiring in
the house. I have numerous cables running indoors and a few to outbuildings
as well. Rather than fuss with tracking down the wiring problem, I just
abandoned the wires and bought a cordless phone system. The base unit
connects directly to my VOIP adapter, and all the other handsets are
wireless. I can move them anywhere in the house, even if there are no phone
jacks.

We have a 2-phone cordless now - buy another & a Y-adapter or replace
with a 4 phone set. I just hate the idea of scrapping these gadgets
every 5 years!


You might check to see if additional handsets are still available for your
existing phone system. I bought an extra handset for my Panasonic so I
could have a phone out in the garage. I got the part number right off one
of the existing handsets.

Otherwise, a new phone system is relatively inexpensive and will bring
everything up to modern standards.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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We have probably a dozen 1500VA UPS's scattered around the house.
They come in handy in an outage as you can plug a CFL or LED lamp
into one and have LOTS of light (instead of living with flashlights
or candles). Figure 10-15W for a CFL gives you many HOURS on one
of these beasts (battery capacity is ~170WHr; assume 70% efficiency
gives you 120WHr -- so, almost 10 hours for a "60W equivalent" CFL)


Novel idea, but that's one expensive flashlight.

We kind of enjoy the rare power outage. It's an excuse to take a break from
technology, build a fire, light some candles, and spend some quality time
together.

That said, my VOIP adapter and phone base unit are connected to my
computer's UPS system.

If the outage lasts more than an hour or two (rare), we can always fall
back to our cell phones. Or, people can just call back later.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 04:47:41 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

We have probably a dozen 1500VA UPS's scattered around the house.
They come in handy in an outage as you can plug a CFL or LED lamp
into one and have LOTS of light (instead of living with flashlights
or candles). Figure 10-15W for a CFL gives you many HOURS on one
of these beasts (battery capacity is ~170WHr; assume 70% efficiency
gives you 120WHr -- so, almost 10 hours for a "60W equivalent" CFL)


Novel idea, but that's one expensive flashlight.

We kind of enjoy the rare power outage. It's an excuse to take a break from
technology, build a fire, light some candles, and spend some quality time
together.

That said, my VOIP adapter and phone base unit are connected to my
computer's UPS system.

If the outage lasts more than an hour or two (rare), we can always fall
back to our cell phones. Or, people can just call back later.


I have enough UPSs here that we may not notice a power failure right
away. My PC is on one and there are 2 in the entertainment center. If
we don't have the light on in the living room and are just watching
TV. not much changes. The real tip off is the dog goes nuts when those
switchers turn on in the UPS. Evidently he can hear the 25kz or so.

As for phones, they will pry my POTS line and my Western Electric
phone out of my cold dead hands. It always works. My AOL dial up line
always works too. I am not going to be streaming Netflix but I can get
out an Email. Actually the DSL is almost as solid as the POTS.
Cable? ... not so much. I had to fire Comcast because they were down
so often and out so long when they went. The drop is swinging in the
air in front of my house.
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On 5/11/2016 9:47 PM, HerHusband wrote:
We have probably a dozen 1500VA UPS's scattered around the house.
They come in handy in an outage as you can plug a CFL or LED lamp
into one and have LOTS of light (instead of living with flashlights
or candles). Figure 10-15W for a CFL gives you many HOURS on one
of these beasts (battery capacity is ~170WHr; assume 70% efficiency
gives you 120WHr -- so, almost 10 hours for a "60W equivalent" CFL)


Novel idea, but that's one expensive flashlight.


Naw, just an extension cord running from a nearby light fixture to
the nearest UPS! I.e., 4 or 5 feet would suffice to connect a nearby
floor lamp to the UPS for this computer!

We kind of enjoy the rare power outage. It's an excuse to take a break from
technology, build a fire, light some candles, and spend some quality time
together.


It depends largely on what we are "trying to get done" when the outage
strikes. E.g., if SWMBO has settled down to watch a movie, it's annoying
not to be able to *finish* that movie. In that case, I'll drag out one
of the larger laptops and let her watch it "in her lap" -- not quite
the same experience as on the big screen but better than having to
come back to the MIDDLE of the story some time later (when she may
want/need to be doing something else). Likewise, if you'd made time to
read a book, you want to continue reading -- not have to return to it
at a later time that's more convenient for the electric company!

If I'm "writing code", I can quickly copy the file(s) onto a thumb drive
and move over to a laptop to continue (none of my systems can stay up
for that long even on the larger UPS's -- can you spell "powerhog"?)

If it's daylight, then, chances are, we're outside or away from home
and don't really care about the outage.

As for "time together", that's already built into our schedules. So,
we each know what time we can expect to address our individual wants/needs
while still ensuring that we don't become "just roommates".

That said, my VOIP adapter and phone base unit are connected to my
computer's UPS system.


The "backup" is important as you may want to USE that phone during
the outage. E.g., to call to REPORT the outage! :

If the outage lasts more than an hour or two (rare), we can always fall
back to our cell phones. Or, people can just call back later.


We *welcome* not hearing from people. But, aren't eager to be
cut off from our ability to phone others! "Why don't we do our
grocery shopping NOW and get it out of the way. Do you think
stores X, Y and Z are suffering outages? Would it be a waste
of time to drive over? Perhaps call first??"
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On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 11:29:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:59:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 7:43:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


Yes, one way is to do what you said. Disconnect the house wiring
from the phone company at the box and run a wire from the new hub
to the house phone wiring. Or if there is a house phone jack near the
hub, disconnect the phone company at the box, then run a wire from
the house jack to the hub.

Another way would be to put the hub where you have a cordless phone
base station and just use cordless in the house. That's what I did.
You can get a new 4 phones plus answering machine for $50


Why not just unplug "the house" from the Dmark box outside and plug
the output of your VOIP into any empty jack. They are all wired
together. They don't know where the signal comes from.


That's what I posted. He doesn't need to run another wire. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Phone Monster
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The real tip off is the dog goes nuts when those switchers turn on
in the UPS. Evidently he can hear the 25kz or so.


When my UPS switches to battery power it clicks a relay and turns on a
fan. So it's easy to tell when it's running off the battery.

It's annoying when the power blips on and off quickly, such as when a
branch is on a powerline or something. Click-click-click-click....

As for phones, they will pry my POTS line and my Western Electric
phone out of my cold dead hands. It always works.


I couldn't wait to ditch our POTS line. They charged $100 a month,
everywhere was a long distance fee, and we had zero features (caller ID,
call blocking, etc.).

I switched to VOIP for $20 a month, free long distance, and a full array
of features. I haven't regretted it for a minute.

My AOL dial up line always works too. I am not going to be streaming
Netflix but I can get out an Email. Actually the DSL is almost as solid
as the POTS.


Dial-up was my only option until Comcast brought their lines out. We
can't get DSL, the forest blocks satellite signals, and our hilly terrain
and distance blocks wireless signals. We can barely even get cell signals
here.

Of course, my only dial-up option back then was long distance, so it got
really expensive.

Cable? ... not so much. I had to fire Comcast because they were down
so often and out so long when they went.


Our Comcast service has been very reliable. We've probably had fewer than
5 outages in the last 10 years, and most of those have lasted less than
30 minutes. Our longest outage was about 4-6 hours.

That said, I did have issues with weak signals when I was splitting the
signal to my cable modem and TV tuners. Comcast tried boosting the signal
slightly, but said it was within "recommended specs". The TV's would
often drop out, my computer tuners would lose the signal and stop
recording, and my cable modem would drop out frequently. Thankfully,
once I dropped cable TV and just use Comcast for internet, I haven't had
any issues. The cable line now runs directly to my cable modem, that's
it.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 05/11/2016 06:59 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

Yes, one way is to do what you said. Disconnect the house wiring
from the phone company at the box and run a wire from the new hub
to the house phone wiring. Or if there is a house phone jack near the
hub, disconnect the phone company at the box, then run a wire from
the house jack to the hub.

Another way would be to put the hub where you have a cordless phone
base station and just use cordless in the house. That's what I did.
You can get a new 4 phones plus answering machine for $50


When I got cable phone, I had a multi-handset cordless phone, and put
the base there their adapter (called a MTA) was going. The company
(Suddenlink) insisted on sending an installer just to plug it in and
that's all I let him do. After the old phone line quit working (it took
almost a day), I disconnected the incoming phone line and used the
existing wiring to connect other phones.

Make sure you never have the new phone adapter connected to the old
phone line.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their
wanton and conscious blasphemy." [Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their
Lies",1543]
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 02:25:37 -0600, Bill wrote:

On 05/11/2016 11:36 PM, wrote:
Actually the DSL is almost as solid as the POTS.
Cable? ... not so much. I had to fire Comcast because they were down
so often and out so long when they went. The drop is swinging in the
air in front of my house.


Way back in 2003 when Comcast launched internet service, reliability was a little sketchy.
But for the last 10 years, Comcast has provided awesome reliability.

At&T U-verse is very reliable as well but all T offers is 6Mb down and less than 1 Mb up. Basically useless for today's web.


My wife still has Comcast at the club and they suck there too
(commercial account)
When she talked to the senior tech (25 years in this area) he said
Comcast bought out all of the mom and pop cable companies in SW
Florida but they have not done much to upgrade the 40 year old
infrastructure and the service sucks at his house too,
Calling customer support is it's own nightmare.
OTOH when Sprint bought out the mom and pop phone company here they
replaced everything with new. The stuff is still pretty old now (20
years) but the backbone is buried fiber and it works very well.
Century link (the latest owner) installed the equipment to allow DSL
to run at 10mb and that seems fast enough for anything I do. It is
very reliable. I would rather have 10m all the time than 50m
intermittently.
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On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:04:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.


frown Your choice. (We keep our land line because it has mandated
availability/reliability guarantees)

The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?


Presumably, all that same "number"?

1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface


You need to see what the VoIP gateway is capable of driving before
you saddle it with 4 loads. At the very least, you will need to
verify how many "REN's" (Ringer Equivalence Numbers) it can drive.
Then, examine each of your "3 or 4 home telephones" to see what sort
of REN's each represents. If your loads exceed the capabilities of
the VoIP gateway, you'll have to take other steps to make them work.

2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your interface
box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the incoming line).
Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the nearest "telephone
jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all of the other, similar,
jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home
(often on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try
to chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.



Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?
I did keep my phone number. I will lose phone service for power
outages and for internet system outages, and also the 911 will be
less effective. But the Bell bill has been climbing steadily for 20
years - ~ $ 75. per month compared to $ 20. for the internet
phone.


Even $20 sounds high to me. I switched to Ooma a year ago. Cost
me $60 for a used unit on Ebay and $4 a month for unlimited US
calling for $4 a month. I only have to pay the taxes each month,
that's the $4. Very happy with it, reliability has been excellent,
voice quality is good too.


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Naw, just an extension cord running from a nearby light fixture to
the nearest UPS! I.e., 4 or 5 feet would suffice to connect a nearby
floor lamp to the UPS for this computer!


I wouldn't have thought to do that, but we don't have any table or floor
lamps. All of our lighting is ceiling or wall mounted.

I do have an LED lantern that runs off of 4 D-cells though. I haven't
changed the batteries in years and it's still going strong. We also have
a few rechargeable lights that come on automatically when the power goes
out.

It depends largely on what we are "trying to get done" when the outage
strikes. E.g., if SWMBO has settled down to watch a movie, it's
annoying not to be able to *finish* that movie. In that case, I'll
drag out one of the larger laptops and let her watch it "in her lap"


Yep, I have a laptop with extra oversized batteries that I use for
similar things. I typically pull it out when the power goes out during
the day when I'm home alone. There's nothing else to do, so I'll fire it
up and watch a movie or something.

Likewise, if you'd made time to read a book, you want to continue
reading -- not have to return to it at a later time that's more
convenient for the electric company!


Book? That's one of those rectangular paper things, right?

If I'm "writing code", I can quickly copy the file(s) onto a thumb
drive and move over to a laptop to continue (none of my systems can
stay up for that long even on the larger UPS's -- can you spell
"powerhog"?)


If I'm writing code, I usually just save what I'm doing and do something
else till the power comes back on. My laptop isn't really set up for
programming, and the interuption kind of ruins my thought process anyway.

Depending on what my computer is doing, I can run between 60 and 90
minutes on my UPS (my computer uses less than 60 watts in normal use).

If it's daylight, then, chances are, we're outside or away from home
and don't really care about the outage.


Around here, it always seems like it's rainy, snowing, or extremely windy
when the power goes out. I'm not about to go outside!

As for "time together", that's already built into our schedules. So,
we each know what time we can expect to address our individual
wants/needs while still ensuring that we don't become "just
roommates".


Sex at 7pm, check.

The "backup" is important as you may want to USE that phone during
the outage. E.g., to call to REPORT the outage! :


I've called to report an outage twice in the past. Both times they said
"we already know". I think it's an automated line these days, but I'm
more likely to use their web site than their phone line anyway.

We *welcome* not hearing from people. But, aren't eager to be
cut off from our ability to phone others! "Why don't we do our
grocery shopping NOW and get it out of the way. Do you think
stores X, Y and Z are suffering outages? Would it be a waste
of time to drive over? Perhaps call first??"


I hate phones and almost never make a call out. We don't get many
incoming calls either, and those that do can wait till later.

We're several miles from town so they usually always have power when ours
is out. Sometimes I do take care of shopping when the power goes out, but
it always seems like the power goes out AFTER we have just gone shopping.
I don't shop unless I have a specific thing I'm already going for.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 14:19:22 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:




As for phones, they will pry my POTS line and my Western Electric
phone out of my cold dead hands. It always works.


I couldn't wait to ditch our POTS line. They charged $100 a month,
everywhere was a long distance fee, and we had zero features (caller ID,
call blocking, etc.).

I switched to VOIP for $20 a month, free long distance, and a full array
of features. I haven't regretted it for a minute.


My landline adds $11 a month to my Century link bill plus another
$10-15 in taxes but I probably pay those taxes, just for having DSL.
That includes free long distance and a bundle of phone options (caller
ID, conferencing, call waiting, voice mail and about a dozen other
options)


Cable? ... not so much. I had to fire Comcast because they were down
so often and out so long when they went.


Our Comcast service has been very reliable. We've probably had fewer than
5 outages in the last 10 years, and most of those have lasted less than
30 minutes. Our longest outage was about 4-6 hours.

That is not what we see here. My weather station logs downtime and I
was filling up the logs when I was on Comcast. After any kind of
little storm, it was down for weeks. Part of the problem is Comcast is
still up on poles and the Telco is buried.
Now days Weather Underground sends me an Email when the station is
down and I get about one or two a year on my DSL, Usually I get the
"it's back up" message a minute or so later. The exception is when it
is on my end.
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 14:42:50 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I do have an LED lantern that runs off of 4 D-cells though. I haven't
changed the batteries in years and it's still going strong. We also have
a few rechargeable lights that come on automatically when the power goes
out.


I have lots of LED portable lights here and we have the standard
"emergency light" you see in commercial installations in the hall. I
swapped out the sealed beams for smaller LED lights and I imagine they
will run for days on those gel batteries. I do have a switch on them
so they can be turned off. That is handy if the power drops at night
and you are suddenly in the dark.
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On 05/12/2016 09:19 AM, HerHusband wrote:

[snip]

Of course, my only dial-up option back then was long distance, so it got
really expensive.


I first got internet in 1995, when the local phone company started
considering a nearby (30 miles) city to be "local".

Cable? ... not so much. I had to fire Comcast because they were down
so often and out so long when they went.


Our Comcast service has been very reliable. We've probably had fewer than
5 outages in the last 10 years, and most of those have lasted less than
30 minutes. Our longest outage was about 4-6 hours.


Here (with Suddenlink) there haven't been many outages. The only one
that lasted more than a few minutes was a 5-day one in May 2015 when we
had a tornado what broke a lot of poles. Power was out for 4 days.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their
wanton and conscious blasphemy." [Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their
Lies",1543]
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wrote in message ...
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.


You can use the existing house telephone wiring.

Last year I disconnected Verizon and went with Time Warner Cable for land line and internet. The TWC modem has a connection for a telephone which I connected to one of the existing wall outlets. That allowed me to use any of the other receptacles in the house.

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Thanks Don - appreciate the input.
I never considered the "loads" of my old telephones ..
maybe someone here has actual experience ?



"Old" phones (i.e., from Western Electric -- the sorts with real
BELLS in them) tend to be 1 REN -- the telco actually had to
deliver the power to move the clapper to strike the bell.
Newer phones tend to have much lower REN's -- they "sense"
the "ring voltage" (90 volts) and tell the little computer
(damn near everything has a computer of some type!) "Hey,
there's an incoming call!".



I got it done this morning - thanks all.
1. disconnected Bell cable at the outside interface box
2. re-routed the internet cable to a better location
modem, hub, router in a central location near a phone jack
3. RJ-11 splitter into the phone jack
4. hub + 1 old phone into splitter
5. 1 other old timey phone in basement
6. 1 cordless pair for main floor and master bedroom
1 old timey phone relegated to spare-dom
Everything seems to work OK - fingers crossed.
.... just need to read-up on the cordless set - it wants to
call out the incoming calls !
... we never knew they could talk !
never had call display before ..
John T.

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On 5/12/2016 7:42 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Naw, just an extension cord running from a nearby light fixture to
the nearest UPS! I.e., 4 or 5 feet would suffice to connect a nearby
floor lamp to the UPS for this computer!


I wouldn't have thought to do that, but we don't have any table or floor
lamps. All of our lighting is ceiling or wall mounted.


No overhead lights in the bedrooms -- all on "bedside tables", etc.
Living room has overhead lights -- but also floor lamps (for reading).
If I need/want a light someplace that doesn't have one handy, I can grab
a table lamp from one of the bedrooms and carry it to wherever.

I do have an LED lantern that runs off of 4 D-cells though. I haven't
changed the batteries in years and it's still going strong. We also have
a few rechargeable lights that come on automatically when the power goes
out.


I don't like buying things for a specific (esp rare) event. E.g.,
our flashlights are not intended for use in the absence of power but,
rather, in teh absence of *light* (e.g., under the hood of the car,
under my workbenches, inside the furnace, etc.).

I have one large "flashlight" that runs off 8 D cells and has a CFL
"bulb":
http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/000/415/926/415926_300.jpg
You can tug on the front bezel to convert it to a "lantern":
http://content.backcountry.com/images/items/large/CMN/CMN0108/ONCO_D1.jpg

But, it eats batteries. Someday, I'll make a wallwart adapter to
use it as a lantern for these occasions. (The idea of installing
rechargeable D cells is almost laughable)

It depends largely on what we are "trying to get done" when the outage
strikes. E.g., if SWMBO has settled down to watch a movie, it's
annoying not to be able to *finish* that movie. In that case, I'll
drag out one of the larger laptops and let her watch it "in her lap"


Yep, I have a laptop with extra oversized batteries that I use for
similar things. I typically pull it out when the power goes out during
the day when I'm home alone. There's nothing else to do, so I'll fire it
up and watch a movie or something.

Likewise, if you'd made time to read a book, you want to continue
reading -- not have to return to it at a later time that's more
convenient for the electric company!


Book? That's one of those rectangular paper things, right?


We read a lot (in my case, ~500pp every week). We both consider it
a "guilty pleasure" as it is a "selfish" act -- totally exclusive of
other people.

If I'm "writing code", I can quickly copy the file(s) onto a thumb
drive and move over to a laptop to continue (none of my systems can
stay up for that long even on the larger UPS's -- can you spell
"powerhog"?)


If I'm writing code, I usually just save what I'm doing and do something
else till the power comes back on. My laptop isn't really set up for
programming, and the interuption kind of ruins my thought process anyway.


All I need is a text editor to write code. I'm not the sort that writes
5 lines and then needs to see (if) it runs. I can write an entire module
before ever seeing a compiler or debugger.

Depending on what my computer is doing, I can run between 60 and 90
minutes on my UPS (my computer uses less than 60 watts in normal use).


Ah, my workstations are big power hogs. I spin 1T on each, have
each configured for 4 monitors (though I only use three), a pair of
SCSI HBA's in each, etc. I have a separate UPS just to power the
monitors...

We could probably save a fair bit in our monthly electric bill if I
moved to a laptop for most of my work. But, getting all the various
I/O devices attached (tablet, motion controller, scanner, etc.)
makes that impractical. Also, I've not found a laptop keyboard that
I'm happy with...

If it's daylight, then, chances are, we're outside or away from home
and don't really care about the outage.


Around here, it always seems like it's rainy, snowing, or extremely windy
when the power goes out. I'm not about to go outside!


As it says in the airport: "360 days of sunshine" I.e., we KNOW when
it is NOT sunny!

As for "time together", that's already built into our schedules. So,
we each know what time we can expect to address our individual
wants/needs while still ensuring that we don't become "just
roommates".


Sex at 7pm, check.


Sorry, I'll be busy. Maybe your wife can take care of that for you??

The "backup" is important as you may want to USE that phone during
the outage. E.g., to call to REPORT the outage! :


I've called to report an outage twice in the past. Both times they said
"we already know". I think it's an automated line these days, but I'm
more likely to use their web site than their phone line anyway.


I tend to be awake at hours that most people are asleep. So,
the neighborhood will be dark -- save my office light. Also,
the way the power feeds this area is wonky. The folks a block
from here are on a different feed -- yet still very much part of
"our neighborhood".

We *welcome* not hearing from people. But, aren't eager to be
cut off from our ability to phone others! "Why don't we do our
grocery shopping NOW and get it out of the way. Do you think
stores X, Y and Z are suffering outages? Would it be a waste
of time to drive over? Perhaps call first??"


I hate phones and almost never make a call out. We don't get many
incoming calls either, and those that do can wait till later.


We keep the phone for contact our "providers" (doctors, dentists,
lawyers, etc.) and for the few random calls to other vendors
(e.g., I ordered replacement rollers for the refrigerator and
we'll get a call when they come in).

We're several miles from town so they usually always have power when ours
is out. Sometimes I do take care of shopping when the power goes out, but
it always seems like the power goes out AFTER we have just gone shopping.
I don't shop unless I have a specific thing I'm already going for.


Shopping is one of our weekly rituals -- always done as a couple (unless
one of us is incapacitated). It lets us plan our menu for the coming week
based on what we encounter in the stores ("Hmmm, asparagus looks good!
We can do that meal Wednesday...")

Our outages tend to be infrequent -- I think in large part due to
below grade services. OTOH, we had a distribution transformer kick
the bucket in the neighborhood, once. Another time, a fire in a cable
vault. But, never "some drunk hit a light pole"...
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