My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

She has two phones - one wired, one DECT - both seem similarly affected.
Both work absolutely fine at every other time. And all the wires have
been taken apart and re-assembled more than once without changing the
issue - including changing the microfilter and splitter.

She (or someone) has contacted the PO and they seem to have run some
tests and declared the line to be fine. I strongly suspect that any
tests were run during the day so we agree they'd be likely to be fine -
the issue only happens in the evenings.

At the moment, I am hypothesising that the issue is on the line rather
than an actual phone.

What DIY testing is possible? Are there any diagnostic numbers available?

It is a fair old drive to get there so the ideal would be something I
can explain to her. If it is simple enough she can do the test when the
line is bad and, hopefully, identify the issue. But if I need to go
over, so be it.

--
Rod

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office

worrying - The Post Office haven't supplied phones since 1980!

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 08/25/2013 11:02 AM, polygonum wrote:
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

That'll be BT then, not the PO.

The simple thing to do is get a known good phone, best borrow one and
eliminate all the existing equipment, then after disconnecting
everything else, plug it into the socket where the line first enters to
house. If the line still sounds distorted, insist on an engineer's
visit. If you'd done this, they'd be hard pressed to prove it was on
your equipment and therefore apply any charge.

Andy C

In article ,
charles writes:
In article ,
polygonum wrote:
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office

worrying - The Post Office haven't supplied phones since 1980!

They have - they provide a separate phone service.
I don't know if they use carrier preselect over BT, or LLU.
If you asked this question on uk.telecom, you would get
people who will know this off the tops of their heads,
and likely know if things like 17070 and/or the BT web
pages can be used to generate a line test on a Post Office
service.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
At the moment, I am hypothesising that the issue is on the line rather
than an actual phone.

What DIY testing is possible? Are there any diagnostic numbers available?

I'd first check the DC volts across the line. During the day when things
are fine - then when the fault is present.

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , polygonum
escribió:

[crossposted to uk.telecom, so quoted in full]

My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

She has two phones - one wired, one DECT - both seem similarly affected.
Both work absolutely fine at every other time. And all the wires have
been taken apart and re-assembled more than once without changing the
issue - including changing the microfilter and splitter.

She (or someone) has contacted the PO and they seem to have run some
tests and declared the line to be fine. I strongly suspect that any
tests were run during the day so we agree they'd be likely to be fine -
the issue only happens in the evenings.

At the moment, I am hypothesising that the issue is on the line rather
than an actual phone.

What DIY testing is possible?

If the first socket on the line (the master socket) is of the type with
the removable faceplate, undo the screws and pull away the lower half.
This will expose a test socket. Plug a *known good* (preferably not one
of hers) working phone into this (without the ADSL splitter and socket
doubler) and see if the problem still exists.

If yes, call the phone suplier and report it as a line fault.

Are there any diagnostic numbers available?

17070 works on BT lines. Try the quiet line test.

You say she has a microfilter, so she has broadband. Is that working
ok? Has the line sync speed changed?

It is a fair old drive to get there so the ideal would be something I
can explain to her. If it is simple enough she can do the test when the
line is bad and, hopefully, identify the issue. But if I need to go
over, so be it.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Don't know about that but increasingly I've been finding that somewhere on a
call its carried in a voip form which degrades when the traffic increases.
this sounds like its in a cupboard and has a sever hf cut off and some
limiting on the sound.

I am wondering if phone companies are using this approach to help with
demand.
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in the
evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking from
inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often but
getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long just
ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

She has two phones - one wired, one DECT - both seem similarly affected.
Both work absolutely fine at every other time. And all the wires have been
taken apart and re-assembled more than once without changing the issue -
including changing the microfilter and splitter.

She (or someone) has contacted the PO and they seem to have run some tests
and declared the line to be fine. I strongly suspect that any tests were
run during the day so we agree they'd be likely to be fine - the issue
only happens in the evenings.

At the moment, I am hypothesising that the issue is on the line rather
than an actual phone.

What DIY testing is possible? Are there any diagnostic numbers available?

It is a fair old drive to get there so the ideal would be something I can
explain to her. If it is simple enough she can do the test when the line
is bad and, hopefully, identify the issue. But if I need to go over, so be
it.

--
Rod

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:02:45 +0100, polygonum
wrote:

It is a fair old drive to get there so the ideal would be something I
can explain to her. If it is simple enough she can do the test when the
line is bad and, hopefully, identify the issue. But if I need to go
over, so be it.

There are well known issues with some DECT phones and ADSL but these
usually show up as noise on the line. The phone system is simple and
fault finding is a matter of being very methodical.

The first test to try when the line appears faulty is simply to unplug
the ADSL filter, splitter and DECT phone and her existing phone and
plug only a known good simple and wired phone directly into the phone
socket on the master box. The simpler the phone the better (Charity
shops and the like are often a good source of appropriate phones).

If that solves the problem leave everything disconnected and replace
the test phone with her normal phone. See if the problem returns.

If it doesn't, plug everything else back in one at a time testing at
each stage.

Is there a Sky box in use?

You might find it useful to make up a simple test sheet for her with a
column for the action (such as unplug everything bar the test phone)
an a space to record the result.

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:18:34 +0100, Andy Cap
wrote:

If the line still sounds distorted, insist on an engineer's
visit. If you'd done this, they'd be hard pressed to prove it was on
your equipment and therefore apply any charge.

I'm afraid these days BT often apply the test of "no fault found on
our equipment" to justify a callout charge. This would be especially
so if when the fitter tested during the day no fault was apparent as
seems to be the case here.

On 25/08/2013 11:02, polygonum wrote:
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

She has two phones - one wired, one DECT - both seem similarly affected.
Both work absolutely fine at every other time. And all the wires have
been taken apart and re-assembled more than once without changing the
issue - including changing the microfilter and splitter.

She (or someone) has contacted the PO and they seem to have run some
tests and declared the line to be fine. I strongly suspect that any
tests were run during the day so we agree they'd be likely to be fine -
the issue only happens in the evenings.

At the moment, I am hypothesising that the issue is on the line rather
than an actual phone.

What DIY testing is possible? Are there any diagnostic numbers available?

It is a fair old drive to get there so the ideal would be something I
can explain to her. If it is simple enough she can do the test when the
line is bad and, hopefully, identify the issue. But if I need to go
over, so be it.


I would suggest getting the PO to test the line in the evening when the
phones are disconnected.

With BT you could request this test either from the phone line itself or
from another phone. I presume the same is true of the PO.

I would also suggest trying the line with a known good phone plugged in
by itself.

If the PO don't see a fault I doubt that there is much that you can do.
Trying to arrange an evening technician visit would be difficult.


--
Michael Chare

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:18:34 +0100, Andy Cap wrote:

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office and it comes in through
an old
single socket. A microfilter and two-line splitter are fitted.

That'll be BT then, not the PO.

Why do you state that so categorically, do you know the OPs mother?

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/home-phone

If the line still sounds distorted, insist on an engineer's visit. If
you'd done this, they'd be hard pressed to prove it was on your
equipment and therefore apply any charge.

The fault is intermittent and in the evenings. The physical local end
is probably supplied and maintained by BT Openreach under contract
from the PO. If BT Openreach come out and don't find a fault they
will charge the PO who will no doubt pass that charge on.

I really can't think of a local end fault that could produce the
described effect. The suggestion of an overloaded link and VOIP is a
possibilty. It might be possible to force calls via another carrier
(via a prefix number) and see if those are similarly affected.

Getting this sort of intermittent thing sorted out can be a real
nightmare. Had a noisey line once BT couldn't find it and kept saying
"no fault found" until I managed to get a call to faults when the
crackles were present...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/08/2013 11:54, Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-25, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:18:34 +0100, Andy Cap
wrote:

If the line still sounds distorted, insist on an engineer's
visit. If you'd done this, they'd be hard pressed to prove it was on
your equipment and therefore apply any charge.

I'm afraid these days BT often apply the test of "no fault found on
our equipment" to justify a callout charge. This would be especially
so if when the fitter tested during the day no fault was apparent as
seems to be the case here.

We've had years of intermittent faults with successions of visits reported
"no fault found". I've never been charged for anything. And wouldn't
pay even if we were.

For about three years the broadband and then the phone packed up whenever
it rained. By the time the BT wireman (I refuse to call them "engineers")
arrived, the fault had always gone away.

One useful thing one of them did tell me was that it is helpful to run a line
test yourself when the fault is active, because they can recover the results
of that when they visit, even if the fault is not extant.


Which test is that? Have just tried 17070 on my own phone and when I
choose option 3 - test, it asks if I am authorised to run it.

--
Rod

In article ,
polygonum writes:
On 25/08/2013 11:54, Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-25, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:18:34 +0100, Andy Cap
wrote:

If the line still sounds distorted, insist on an engineer's
visit. If you'd done this, they'd be hard pressed to prove it was on
your equipment and therefore apply any charge.

I'm afraid these days BT often apply the test of "no fault found on
our equipment" to justify a callout charge. This would be especially
so if when the fitter tested during the day no fault was apparent as
seems to be the case here.

We've had years of intermittent faults with successions of visits reported
"no fault found". I've never been charged for anything. And wouldn't
pay even if we were.

For about three years the broadband and then the phone packed up whenever
it rained. By the time the BT wireman (I refuse to call them "engineers")
arrived, the fault had always gone away.

One useful thing one of them did tell me was that it is helpful to run a line
test yourself when the fault is active, because they can recover the results
of that when they visit, even if the fault is not extant.


Which test is that? Have just tried 17070 on my own phone and when I
choose option 3 - test, it asks if I am authorised to run it.

It's buried somewhere on the bt.com web pages.

Some ISP's (such as Andrews&Arnold) also give you access to do it
via their control pages, and you can see the full results that way.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

rOn 25 Aug 2013 10:54:18 GMT, Huge wrote:


We've had years of intermittent faults with successions of visits reported
"no fault found". I've never been charged for anything. And wouldn't
pay even if we were.

For many years BT only ever charged if the subscriber had done
something really crass and very few callouts resulted in charges being
raised. Since the line and repair element became Openreach and
available to other service suppliers than BT that has changed
considerably. Especially so in the last 12 months where "no fault
found" visits now often generate a charge.

On 25/08/2013 11:37, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , polygonum
escribió:

17070 works on BT lines. Try the quiet line test.

You say she has a microfilter, so she has broadband. Is that working
ok? Has the line sync speed changed?


If she *does* have broadband you could perhaps set up "JDs Auto Speed
Tester" or one of the other testers which log ADSL data. Logging say
every quarter of an hour for a few days should show up if there is noise
which varies as you describe, which gives you physical evidence. You
might also chase the ISP if the performance is outside what they claim
for your postcode in the advertised link.

On 25/08/2013 13:22, newshound wrote:
On 25/08/2013 11:37, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , polygonum
escribió:

17070 works on BT lines. Try the quiet line test.

You say she has a microfilter, so she has broadband. Is that working
ok? Has the line sync speed changed?


If she *does* have broadband you could perhaps set up "JDs Auto Speed
Tester" or one of the other testers which log ADSL data. Logging say
every quarter of an hour for a few days should show up if there is noise
which varies as you describe, which gives you physical evidence. You
might also chase the ISP if the performance is outside what they claim
for your postcode in the advertised link.


Difficulties in that direction at the moment - not technical ones, human
ones.

It has been working excellently.

--
Rod

On 25/08/2013 11:02, polygonum wrote:
My mother's phone has developed a habit of deteriorating in quality in
the evenings. It seems to get markedly quieter and has an odd "talking
from inside a cardboard box" quality. This seems to happen quite often
but getting a proper analysis of exactly which days and for how long
just ain't going to happen.

Her phone is supplied by the Post Office

does it have a dial on the front ?