On 5/12/2016 9:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 11:30:55 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 05/12/2016 11:02 AM, wrote:

[snip]

I have lots of LED portable lights here and we have the standard
"emergency light" you see in commercial installations in the hall. I
swapped out the sealed beams for smaller LED lights and I imagine they
will run for days on those gel batteries. I do have a switch on them
so they can be turned off. That is handy if the power drops at night
and you are suddenly in the dark.


I have an old UPS that won't put out enough current for a PC, but works
OK with a string of LED holiday lights I have in the hall.

I call these "Lilly's lights" after a cat I used to have who slept in
the hall and didn't want to be stepped on. That cat is gone now, but
they make good emergency lights. There was a short (44 min.) power
outage this morning and they worked.

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries.

I have a couple of these:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6
Which take the battery pack:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-1500-Replacement-Battery/dp/B001MHPYUG/

I took a pass on a pair of these:
http://thumbs1.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/121934285472_/APC-SUA3000i-SMART-UPS-SUA-3000-VA-TOWER-UPS.jpg
because they require *two* of the above battery packs (the bottom
compartment is all battery)

The unit I've set aside for my network switch uses this:
http://img0123.psstatic.com/180371194_apc-smart-ups-1500-battery.jpg

I'm not keen on throwing lots of money into batteries in the hope that
they'll NOT be needed!

(APC is also notorious for floating the batteries at too high of a cell
voltage and prematurely cooking them! But, that appears to be their
business model -- sort of like toilet paper salesmen giving out
free prune juice samples...)

On 5/12/2016 10:51 AM, wrote:
I got it done this morning - thanks all.

Great! Now, the windows in the car desperately need a washing...

1. disconnected Bell cable at the outside interface box
2. re-routed the internet cable to a better location
modem, hub, router in a central location near a phone jack
3. RJ-11 splitter into the phone jack
4. hub + 1 old phone into splitter
5. 1 other old timey phone in basement
6. 1 cordless pair for main floor and master bedroom
1 old timey phone relegated to spare-dom
Everything seems to work OK - fingers crossed.
.... just need to read-up on the cordless set - it wants to
call out the incoming calls !
... we never knew they could talk !
never had call display before ..

Did you manage to find a "maximum REN" rating listed anywhere?

On Thu, 12 May 2016 12:56:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries.

I have a couple of these:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6
Which take the battery pack:

I have one just like that on my TV and sat box and you can replace
that "battery pack" with 2 batteries of equal AH that end up being
about $40 less if you shop around.

Did you manage to find a "maximum REN" rating listed anywhere?


Nope - not on the hub. link below.
One of my 3 old phones had it 1.2 I think.
"load number" was specified on one, as 29.
Dunno ...

http://enterprise.zte.com.cn/en/prod...18_422573.html

John T.

On 05/12/2016 11:39 AM, wrote:

[snip

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

This UPS is one of those APC units that look like a fat power strip. It
could be a bad battery, that drops the voltage too much with more than a
little load. It's something to consider when I need a new UPS for a
computer.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their
wanton and conscious blasphemy." [Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their
Lies",1543]

Did you manage to find a "maximum REN" rating listed anywhere?


Nope - not on the hub. link below.
One of my 3 old phones had it 1.2 I think.
"load number" was specified on one, as 29.
Dunno ...

http://enterprise.zte.com.cn/en/prod...18_422573.html

John T.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 16:16:38 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 05/12/2016 11:39 AM, wrote:

[snip

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

This UPS is one of those APC units that look like a fat power strip. It
could be a bad battery, that drops the voltage too much with more than a
little load. It's something to consider when I need a new UPS for a
computer.

The 550-600 type? They have one battery and you don't even have to
take it apart to get the battery out, There is a door in the back.
Those are fairly cheap but be aware there are lots of model numbers
for essentially the same battery. Watch the size and amp hour rating.

On 5/12/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 12:56:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries.

I have a couple of these:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6
Which take the battery pack:

I have one just like that on my TV and sat box and you can replace
that "battery pack" with 2 batteries of equal AH that end up being
about $40 less if you shop around.

I don't care about the price. My point is that there are far
more variations in batteries -- battery sizes and numbers thereof.
I have a UPS that takes *one* battery. Some two. Others 4.
At one point, I had one that took *10* of the 12V 7.2AHr units
(it was the size of a dishwasher).

On Thu, 12 May 2016 15:51:45 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/12/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 12:56:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries.

I have a couple of these:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6
Which take the battery pack:

I have one just like that on my TV and sat box and you can replace
that "battery pack" with 2 batteries of equal AH that end up being
about $40 less if you shop around.

I don't care about the price. My point is that there are far
more variations in batteries -- battery sizes and numbers thereof.
I have a UPS that takes *one* battery. Some two. Others 4.
At one point, I had one that took *10* of the 12V 7.2AHr units
(it was the size of a dishwasher).

I have worked in places with a room full of group 27 deep cycle
batteries stacked 3 high in racks to power the UPS but this is not
what we are talking about.
APC uses 2 basic batteries in the half dozen or so units I have here.
In some units they just glue a couple together to create a "battery
pack" that they charge handsomely for, I suppose people who can't read
specs and do a little shopping appreciate the simplicity so APC does
it. There are plenty of customers who just throw the UPS away when the
battery is dead.
These are industry standard parts and I want to get them at the best
available price. I certainly have not noticed that much difference
between the life of a APC sourced part and one I get from a battery
wholesaler. The wholesaler actually tends to have fresher ones.

On 5/12/2016 2:04 PM, wrote:


Did you manage to find a "maximum REN" rating listed anywhere?

Nope - not on the hub. link below.
One of my 3 old phones had it 1.2 I think.
"load number" was specified on one, as 29.

"29" sounds wonky.

Dunno ...

frown No mention in any of the literature, either! Scarey!
You might want to try calling yourself to see if it *can*
ring all your phones. And possibly consider turning off the
ringers on any that you can (old WE phones require you to disconnect
the ringer leads internally)

APC uses 2 basic batteries in the half dozen or so units I have here.
In some units they just glue a couple together to create a "battery
pack" that they charge handsomely for, I suppose people who can't read
specs and do a little shopping appreciate the simplicity so APC does
it. There are plenty of customers who just throw the UPS away when the
battery is dead.
These are industry standard parts and I want to get them at the best
available price. I certainly have not noticed that much difference
between the life of a APC sourced part and one I get from a battery
wholesaler. The wholesaler actually tends to have fresher ones.

My Cyberpower UPS has two batteries assembled into a single unit. Remove
the cover, slide out the old battery unit, slide in the new one, replace
the cover.

I made the mistake of buying inexpensive aftermarket batteries a couple
years ago. The UPS claimed it would run over 70 minutes on the batteries,
but when the power went out I was lucky to get 5 minutes from them (after
three days of charging). They drained way too fast.

I recently bought the "genuine" Cyberpower batteries and now I really do
get more than 70 minutes when the power goes out.

I'm sure the first set were just low quality as I've purchased many
aftermarket batteries over the years. As you said, they're usually better
than the official batteries.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 5/12/2016 4:56 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 15:51:45 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/12/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 12:56:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

A battery will usually fix those "Bad" UPSs. They are not horribly
expensive online. That is why I have so many units around here. They
all came with bad batteries for free. I still have a few dead soldiers
back in my shop but I am UPSed out here. ;-)
There only seems to be 2 basic sizes with either 1 or 2 in each UPS
(APC).

That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries.

I have a couple of these:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6
Which take the battery pack:

I have one just like that on my TV and sat box and you can replace
that "battery pack" with 2 batteries of equal AH that end up being
about $40 less if you shop around.

I don't care about the price. My point is that there are far
more variations in batteries -- battery sizes and numbers thereof.
I have a UPS that takes *one* battery. Some two. Others 4.
At one point, I had one that took *10* of the 12V 7.2AHr units
(it was the size of a dishwasher).

I have worked in places with a room full of group 27 deep cycle
batteries stacked 3 high in racks to power the UPS but this is not
what we are talking about.
APC uses 2 basic batteries in the half dozen or so units I have here.

As I said upthread:
"That's only for the smaller, consumer-ish units -- 12V 7.2AHr batteries."

Over the years:
http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/e4/d/apc-bp500uc-500-va-pro-500-back-ups-0fd.jpg
originally used to power my "24/7/365" box. Discarded as it didn't have
much capacity (peak power as well as runtime) and was too tall to be of
practical use (I wanted to wedge it under a dresser in the bedroom). It
has *one* 7.2AHr battery in its belly.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/content/images/product/large/439162.jpg
also discarded for similar reasons (though it was lower profile and
I could slide it under one of my dressers -- not possible with the
previous unit)

I had a similar shape unit (but with a METAL skin) that also got
discarded because it took a *different* battery (shorter and fatter)
and I didn't want to have to buy two different styles of similar
capacity batteries (I buy batteries in bulk -- 10 at a time). Also,
it only had four outlets on the back and two of them were "pigtails".
This was OK when the 24/7 box and switch were the only "local
loads" but I now have a tablet PC and mouse charger plugged into
the same UPS (immediately below).

Yet another similar version (different shape):
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Bd9kNCU%2BL._SY355_.jpg
is what currently powers the 24/7 box and the small 16port
switch adjacent. Again, one 12V 7.2Ahr battery underneath.

I have one of these powering the set of three monitors shared
by my two primary workstations:
http://excessups.com/images/products/BX1500LCD.jpg
I have another that powers my "personal stereo" and "PROM programmer"
(doesn't like to lose power when it is programming an EPROM!). They
take two of the 12V 7.2AHr batteries arranged side by side.

I have eight of these:
http://www.upsforless.com/ProductImages/apcfrom20060601/br1500-FL.jpg
(or the 1200VA variants thereof) powering individual computers around
the house. They also serve as handy "extension cords" and "outlet
multipliers" -- allowing me to plug any specific peripherals that are
associated with that particular computer into the same device so
everything goes on/off with one switch. They take two of the 7.2AHr
batteries but stacked one atop each other.

[You can buy the "12V 7.2AHr" battery in different claimed capacities;
some as high as 9AHr. But, they're all the same physical size]

http://emachinespk.com/upload/images/APC%20Smart-UPS%202200VA%20Usb%20&%20Serial%20230V.jpg
took a pass on a pair of these as they are really heavy (the bottom half
is "all battery") and too big to slide "under" anything. It has a *pair*
of these battery packs in it:
http://www.champion-battery-sales.com/media/catalog/product/r/b/rbc7.jpg
each "pack" is roughly the size of a car battery (though actually two
12V batteries glued together)

I currently have three of these to power my automation system:
http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/291234523038_/APC-SUA1000-SMART-UPS-TOWER-BACKUP-1000VA-670W-120V.jpg
though mine are the 1500VA size and equipped with network interfaces
(so the automation system can query the state of the UPS's). They
take *one* of the above battery packs.
http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/390337662650_/APC-1500-tower-UPS-SUA1500i-refurbished.jpg

I'm looking to replace these with something like the 3000VA version of:
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImage/42-101-176-03.jpg
mainly because it is powered by a 48V battery pack:
http://excessups.ca/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/r/b/rbc43_3_2_1_1_1_1.jpg
but entirely different size/shape batteries therein.

The 48V DC supply would allow me to directly power the PoE PSE without
requiring a separate 3000VA 48V power supply! I.e., the AC capabilities
of the UPS are largely ignored and it is treated as a big 48V battery.

But, a friend is suggesting addressing these needs separately; a tiny
100VA UPS to power the database server "PC" and a separate 48V battery
with charger -- noting that the charger need not RUSH to recharge
the battery pack after an outage (as is the problem with many UPS's).
If so, using flooded cells for the battery could give me a much lower
maintenance cost (lower the specific gravity)

In some units they just glue a couple together to create a "battery
pack" that they charge handsomely for, I suppose people who can't read
specs and do a little shopping appreciate the simplicity so APC does
it. There are plenty of customers who just throw the UPS away when the
battery is dead.

Exactly. Buying a UPS is almost silly, nowadays. If you can't find
someone EAGER to have you take theirs off their hands, you haven't
tried!

Unfortunately, the larger devices (2000VA+) tend to see use in data centers.
And, the folks there have budgets for battery replacements. So, discards
are harder to come by (and often rack mount forms)

These are industry standard parts and I want to get them at the best
available price. I certainly have not noticed that much difference
between the life of a APC sourced part and one I get from a battery
wholesaler. The wholesaler actually tends to have fresher ones.

I buy the "7.2AHr" batteries in lots of 10 or 12. This usually gives
me a 20% discount -- just for the quantity.

However, the larger UPS's need higher capacity batteries. So, this
means keeping two different types of batteries on hand. And, given
that batteries in THESE applications are intended NOT to be used/needed,
it's a huge bit of cash tied up "just in case".

So, I'm now looking for cheaper/lower capacity batteries with a goal
of just providing brownout protection and very short uptimes. The
individual computers talk to their specific UPS's so they can shut down
if the UPS tells them its failing. And, if I'm in the middle of something,
I can always save my work and come back to it at another time
(being able to "continue working" for long periods of time on any
of 8 or 10 computers "at random" is a hefty "support" requirement
for a UPS!). The *real* backup need is the automation system and
a single LONG TERM solution, there, can pay off handsomely -- WITH
the right UPS!

On 5/12/2016 9:01 PM, HerHusband wrote:
APC uses 2 basic batteries in the half dozen or so units I have here.
In some units they just glue a couple together to create a "battery
pack" that they charge handsomely for, I suppose people who can't read
specs and do a little shopping appreciate the simplicity so APC does
it. There are plenty of customers who just throw the UPS away when the
battery is dead.
These are industry standard parts and I want to get them at the best
available price. I certainly have not noticed that much difference
between the life of a APC sourced part and one I get from a battery
wholesaler. The wholesaler actually tends to have fresher ones.

My Cyberpower UPS has two batteries assembled into a single unit. Remove
the cover, slide out the old battery unit, slide in the new one, replace
the cover.

That's true of most UPS's in the 600-1500VA capacity. At lower
capacities, the cost of the second battery tends to drive a lower
(DC) voltage design -- higher relative switching losses. Batteries
are mounted side-to-side or top-to-top and held together with
(effectively) "thick tape".

There's usually very little "extra" room in the battery compartment so
a UPS that cooks its batteries can leave you with a mess -- trying
to pull a "swollen" battery out of an already tight spot.

The larger capacity (2000+ VA) units tend to move up to 48V packs
for increased efficiency. And, the packs tend to be genuine entities
(not just batteries taped together but actual "enclosed cartridges")
Part of this is due to the increased weight of a set of four, LARGER
batteries as a replaceable unit.

I made the mistake of buying inexpensive aftermarket batteries a couple
years ago. The UPS claimed it would run over 70 minutes on the batteries,
but when the power went out I was lucky to get 5 minutes from them (after
three days of charging). They drained way too fast.

IME, the UPS is the bigger problem than the batteries. I.e., you can
easily change battery supplier (screw me once, shame on you; screw
me twice, shame on me!). But, a misbehaving UPS will eat good batteries
just as happily as bad batteries!

APC UPS's tend to overcharge their batteries. What's worse is the
charging circuit seems to degrade over time. So, a UPS that is
targeting an "ideal" cell float voltage can slowly creep up to
an unhealthy level... and this isn't noticed until your "battery"
is toast!

I recently bought the "genuine" Cyberpower batteries and now I really do
get more than 70 minutes when the power goes out.

I'm sure the first set were just low quality as I've purchased many
aftermarket batteries over the years. As you said, they're usually better
than the official batteries.

A better solution is a better charger. You'll note that the
batteries in electric vehicles aren't naively charged (based solely
on their two endpoints!). But, this adds to the cost of the UPS
and requires changes to the batteries chosen. I.e., you'd want
access to individual cells (or pairs of cells) instead of
"groups of 6 cells". This would also cut maintenance costs as
you could detect and replace bad cells instead of losing a set
of 6 due to one of those 6 failing (and cooking the others).

On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 7:04 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the "not
connected" message when used.


[snip]

The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your
interface box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the
incoming line). Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the
nearest "telephone jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all
of the other, similar, jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home (often
on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try to
chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.

Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.

So iiuc, you end up using your cell phone to tallk on your voip line,
for no extra charge.

Or do you end up using your voip phones to talk on your cell phone
line, paying whatever the cell phone charges, for international calls
for example?

Or both?

On Wed, 11 May 2016 20:39:15 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 7:04 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the "not
connected" message when used.


[snip]

The obvious other option is just to disconnect TPC from your
interface box (so YOU aren't trying to push signal OUT onto the
incoming line). Then, run a RJ11 cable from the VoIP gateway to the
nearest "telephone jack" inside your home. It will be wired to all
of the other, similar, jacks throughout your home.

If they made provisions for TWO lines to come into your home (often
on an unused pair of a 2-6 pair cable), then you can also try to
chase down the uncommitted end of that cable and use it as a vector
onto the "used" pair).

Again, disconnecting the phone company from your home AT the network
interface for the reason outlined above.

Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.




Thanks for the ideas - much appreciated.
I'm leaning toward the cordless phone option ..
We have a 2-phone cordless now - buy another & a Y-adapter
or replace with a 4 phone set ...

Sometimes you can buy more extensions for the current phone. In my
case it was cheaper to buy a whole second phone with a base station
and a cordless phone, or maybe I bought that one first, but at least 3
extensions work with either base station (which has either a corded or
non-cordedd phone.)

One of the buttons to answer the phone is taking a little extra
pressure and I should buy a spare before they're all gone from ebay.

I just hate the idea of scrapping these gadgets every 5 years !

Absolutelyh

... my 3 home phones are all 20 years old & working fine.
John T.

I haved one phone that is 50 years old and working fine, though it's
hard to get to and rarely used, and another phone that's 60 or 70
years old and works fine. I'd put it in the living room but there's
no jack and hard to ilnstall. ...Wait, that must be why I bought the
wireless jack. But the phones I use are about 10 y.o.

On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:55:05 -0500, philo wrote:

On 05/11/2016 06:43 PM, wrote:
Today I got connected to internet telephone service for my home -
the old land line still has dial tone but only gets the
"not connected" message when used.
The hub that the internet company provides has only one RJ-11 phone
port - but four 3 unused RJ-45 LAN ports.
What is my easiest route to connect my 3 or 4 home telephones
to the new system ?
1. go to the interface box on the outside wall of my house and
disconnect the incoming Bell line ; then run a new phone line from
here to the hub ? the hub needs to be located centrally in the
house - not near the Bell interface
2. other ideas ?
Thanks in advance. John T.



No , don't mess with the incoming lines, there should be a phone out put
jack on your gateway router...that's what you use.

I always wondered what would happen if I switched all my phones to VOIP,
on my dialup internet service, and then had my phone service
disconnected.....

On 5/13/2016 1:45 AM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:



[snip]
Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.

So iiuc, you end up using your cell phone to tallk on your voip line,
for no extra charge.

Or do you end up using your voip phones to talk on your cell phone
line, paying whatever the cell phone charges, for international calls
for example?

Neither, actually. We had the traditional POTS - no VOIP, Cable, etc.

We found that we RARELY got any calls on the land line. They all went
to the cellular phones. We simply told AT&T to take a hike and went
total cellular but added the Siemens Gigaset for convenience of not
having to carry the cells around with us at home.

The transition was more or less seamless. We have our cells, we have
our cordless and wired phones. Only difference is we now have TWO
separate lines at home and no long distance or local charges.

Don,

Batteries are mounted side-to-side or top-to-top and held together with
(effectively) "thick tape".

Yep, mine has the top-to-top arrangement with a little wiring block in-
between and the "thick tape" to hold it all together.

The larger capacity (2000+ VA) units tend to move up to 48V packs
for increased efficiency. And, the packs tend to be genuine entities
(not just batteries taped together but actual "enclosed cartridges")
Part of this is due to the increased weight of a set of four, LARGER
batteries as a replaceable unit.

It's a shame UPS's haven't switched to lithium batteries. They're smaller,
lighter weight, and they hold their charge longer. My power tools all use
20V lithium battery packs, and my string trimmer and leaf blower use 56V
lithium battery packs. Laptops and electric cars use lithium batteries too.

The only downside is that potential of catching fire.

A better solution is a better charger.

My previous replacement batteries wouldn't hold a charge from the day I
installed them. They seemed to charge up normally and the control panel
said I would get 70 minutes of run time. Unfortunately, when the power went
out the batteries drained very quickly and the UPS shut off after just 5
minutes.

The new batteries are working like they're supposed to. I get at least 70
minutes with them.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Hi Anthony,

On 5/13/2016 7:13 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Batteries are mounted side-to-side or top-to-top and held together with
(effectively) "thick tape".

Yep, mine has the top-to-top arrangement with a little wiring block in-
between and the "thick tape" to hold it all together.

For the side-by-side arrangement, the tape is double-sided and sits
between the batteries. Often a PITA to get them apart (as you
don't want to pry them apart with a sharp object and risk cracking
the cases). The top-to-top are easier to manage.

When you (eventually) have to replace them, save the "wiring block"
(I'm glad YOU gave it a name; I'd have just called it a "plastic
thingy that goes between them" : ). You need to *slide* it
ALONG the top of each battery to disengage the FastOn's from the
battery.

Then, 2" packing tape works great to tape the new batteries together.

The larger capacity (2000+ VA) units tend to move up to 48V packs
for increased efficiency. And, the packs tend to be genuine entities
(not just batteries taped together but actual "enclosed cartridges")
Part of this is due to the increased weight of a set of four, LARGER
batteries as a replaceable unit.

It's a shame UPS's haven't switched to lithium batteries. They're smaller,
lighter weight, and they hold their charge longer. My power tools all use
20V lithium battery packs, and my string trimmer and leaf blower use 56V
lithium battery packs. Laptops and electric cars use lithium batteries too.

The only downside is that potential of catching fire.

They're also more expensive -- almost double the price of SLA/AGM.

A better solution is a better charger.

My previous replacement batteries wouldn't hold a charge from the day I
installed them. They seemed to charge up normally and the control panel
said I would get 70 minutes of run time. Unfortunately, when the power went
out the batteries drained very quickly and the UPS shut off after just 5
minutes.

The new batteries are working like they're supposed to. I get at least 70
minutes with them.

Of course, depends on your load. E.g., the XS1500 that powers my monitors
will keep them running for almost a DAY -- if they are in StandBy mode! :
But, once lit up, the runtime estimate drops to ~20 minutes (200W).

As an "expensive flashlight (powering a 13W CFL), it will run for several
HOURS!

On Fri, 13 May 2016 05:52:48 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 1:45 AM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 19:14:10 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:



[snip]
Taking into account the REN situation that Don mentions, his second
option is exactly what I did when we gave up our landline in favor of
our cellular phones. We bought a Siemens Gigaset which connects via
Bluetooth to our cell phones whenever we are in range (our model will
accept up to three cell phones and port them to the hardwired home phone
system. All we do is plug in a single RJ11 cable from the Gigaset to
the nearest telephone jack and we were done. The Gigaset gives us
incoming and outgoing call capabilities on all three lines through a
Panasonic cordless phone with FOUR extensions and an POTS or two
scattered throughout the house. We do not miss the landline at all.

So iiuc, you end up using your cell phone to tallk on your voip line,
for no extra charge.

Or do you end up using your voip phones to talk on your cell phone
line, paying whatever the cell phone charges, for international calls
for example?

Neither, actually. We had the traditional POTS - no VOIP, Cable, etc.

We found that we RARELY got any calls on the land line. They all went
to the cellular phones. We simply told AT&T to take a hike and went
total cellular but added the Siemens Gigaset for convenience of not
having to carry the cells around with us at home.

The transition was more or less seamless. We have our cells, we have
our cordless and wired phones. Only difference is we now have TWO
separate lines at home and no long distance or local charges.


Very interesting. Copy to MissA, who might have some use for this
information.

On 05/12/2016 05:22 PM, wrote:

[snip]

The 550-600 type? They have one battery and you don't even have to
take it apart to get the battery out, There is a door in the back.
Those are fairly cheap but be aware there are lots of model numbers
for essentially the same battery. Watch the size and amp hour rating.


One battery, labeled "Genuine RBC" with no capacity markings.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God,
for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because
they are spiritually discerned." Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:14

On 05/12/2016 08:08 PM, Don Y wrote:

[snip]

frown No mention in any of the literature, either! Scarey!
You might want to try calling yourself to see if it *can*
ring all your phones. And possibly consider turning off the
ringers on any that you can (old WE phones require you to disconnect
the ringer leads internally)


I used to have a "ring control cord" (fro Radio Shack) that would add a
ringer switch to any phone. It was just a switch across a full-wave
rectifier.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God,
for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because
they are spiritually discerned." Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:14

On 05/13/2016 01:51 AM, Micky wrote:

[snip]

Sometimes you can buy more extensions for the current phone. In my
case it was cheaper to buy a whole second phone with a base station
and a cordless phone, or maybe I bought that one first, but at least 3
extensions work with either base station (which has either a corded or
non-cordedd phone.)

I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I
looked on the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was
better off buying another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).


[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God,
for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because
they are spiritually discerned." Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:14

On 5/13/2016 9:55 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I looked on
the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was better off buying
another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).

I think the reasoning is that:
- not many people (relatively speaking) want extra bases (so, quantities
are lower, shelf space gets wasted on products with low turnover, etc.)
- people who want more, can *afford* to pay more (for the convenience
of having interchangeable handsets)

Be careful running multiple bases concurrently. Some may not like this.

On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:25:28 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 9:55 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I looked on
the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was better off buying
another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).

I think the reasoning is that:
- not many people (relatively speaking) want extra bases (so, quantities
are lower, shelf space gets wasted on products with low turnover, etc.)
- people who want more, can *afford* to pay more (for the convenience
of having interchangeable handsets)

Be careful running multiple bases concurrently. Some may not like this.

You also want to be careful what frequency they are on. One of my
neighbors is on 900mz and I get them on my wireless headset. I had to
move my audio to another channel.

On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:25:28 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 9:55 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I looked on
the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was better off buying

I'm figuring by now, several years later, base stations have broken or
they've upgraded, so Ebay would be the place for extra handesets.

another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).

I think the reasoning is that:
- not many people (relatively speaking) want extra bases (so, quantities
are lower, shelf space gets wasted on products with low turnover, etc.)
- people who want more, can *afford* to pay more (for the convenience
of having interchangeable handsets)

Be careful running multiple bases concurrently. Some may not like this.

I figured he meant it was a spare, for when the first one breaks, like
I have it.

When you (eventually) have to replace them

I'm on my third set of batteries now...

save the "wiring block" (I'm glad YOU gave it a name; I'd have just
called it a "plastic thingy that goes between them" : ).

Yeah, I didn't know what else to call it.

You need to *slide* it ALONG the top of each battery to disengage
the FastOn's from the battery.

Mine has short jumper wires inside the wiring block. When I remove the tape
holding the batteries together, I can seperate the batteries enough to
reach in and disconnect the terminals.

Thankfully, my new batteries came assembled as a unit with a new wiring
block.

Of course, depends on your load. E.g., the XS1500 that powers my
monitors will keep them running for almost a DAY -- if they are in
StandBy mode! : But, once lit up, the runtime estimate drops to ~20
minutes (200W).

When I replaced my UPS batteries, my computer setup was using about 90
watts (CPU, monitor, cable modem, router, and phone adapter). I was able to
run a bit over 70 minutes on battery power.

A couple weeks ago I bought a new monitor and the total power draw dropped
to about 70 watts. My UPS claims I can run 90 minutes now, but I haven't
tested it since changing monitors.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 5/13/2016 10:03 PM, HerHusband wrote:
You need to *slide* it ALONG the top of each battery to disengage
the FastOn's from the battery.

Mine has short jumper wires inside the wiring block. When I remove the tape
holding the batteries together, I can seperate the batteries enough to
reach in and disconnect the terminals.

If you, instead, just slide the block "away" from (one of the) battery's
connectors, you'll see that the jumper wires are held captive *in* the
block and it's just like you are slipping a two-wire connector off the
battery. Repeat for the other battery (usually sliding the opposite
direction).

It's also handy when you want to assemble a battery pack: make sure the
jumper wires are in place, then slide the block onto one battery, hold
it in place and slide the second battery on. Apply tape.

Thankfully, my new batteries came assembled as a unit with a new wiring
block.

Of course, depends on your load. E.g., the XS1500 that powers my
monitors will keep them running for almost a DAY -- if they are in
StandBy mode! : But, once lit up, the runtime estimate drops to ~20
minutes (200W).

When I replaced my UPS batteries, my computer setup was using about 90
watts (CPU, monitor, cable modem, router, and phone adapter). I was able to
run a bit over 70 minutes on battery power.

Yeah, my power requirements are considerably higher; one of my primary
workstations has a 4-head video card, the other has two dual-head cards.
Plus SCSI HBA's. Plus any other I/O's (tablet, motion controller, etc.)
that I may be using to interact with the application(s).

Of course, having *just* the computer (and monitors) backed up is often
not enough. E.g., if the 24 port switch in the office glitches, then
anything happening there (or whatever I'm talking to) is suspect.
Likewise for NAS boxes, etc.

Like NOT being "just a little" pregnant!

A couple weeks ago I bought a new monitor and the total power draw dropped
to about 70 watts. My UPS claims I can run 90 minutes now, but I haven't
tested it since changing monitors.

I mainly want protection from dropouts, brownouts, etc. If the power is
going to fail, I can drag out a laptop. But, I'd hate to lose what I
am working on just because the lights flickered... It's also amusing
how easy it is to FORGET what (exactly) you were doing when the screen
unexpectedly goes black!

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 12:55:45 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/13/2016 01:51 AM, Micky wrote:

[snip]

Sometimes you can buy more extensions for the current phone. In my
case it was cheaper to buy a whole second phone with a base station
and a cordless phone, or maybe I bought that one first, but at least 3
extensions work with either base station (which has either a corded or
non-cordedd phone.)

I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I
looked on the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was
better off buying another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).



Exactly. As I pointed out, new ones can be had for ~$50, for a base
with answering machine and 3 or 4 handsets. Plus then you get all new
batteries, the new ones are better, etc. I'm about ready myself. On
my 15 year old Panasonic, one of the handsets, the LCD display is shot,
on another it's getting less visible.

I mainly want protection from dropouts, brownouts, etc. If the power
is going to fail, I can drag out a laptop. But, I'd hate to lose what
I am working on just because the lights flickered... It's also
amusing how easy it is to FORGET what (exactly) you were doing when
the screen unexpectedly goes black!

Ironically, when the power does go out I know I can still keep working on
the UPS power for a while. So, I'm usually in no hurry to shut things down
and stop working. Of course, at some point the battery power runs out and
the system shuts down automatically. It's my own fault for not stopping
gracefully when I had warning, but I get a false sense of endless power and
just keep working.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 5/14/2016 7:27 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I mainly want protection from dropouts, brownouts, etc. If the power
is going to fail, I can drag out a laptop. But, I'd hate to lose what
I am working on just because the lights flickered... It's also
amusing how easy it is to FORGET what (exactly) you were doing when
the screen unexpectedly goes black!

Ironically, when the power does go out I know I can still keep working on
the UPS power for a while. So, I'm usually in no hurry to shut things down
and stop working. Of course, at some point the battery power runs out and
the system shuts down automatically. It's my own fault for not stopping
gracefully when I had warning, but I get a false sense of endless power and
just keep working.

If I'm doing something interactive, I can just remember to "save" often...
until the floor falls out from under me. But, I have to make a point of
remembering what "set of things" I was trying to accomplish at the time.
So, if I got A, B and F done, I will remember to come back and tackle
C, D and E, later!

E.g., I'm presently reconfiguring BIND9 on my 24/7 box. The configuration
file is several hundred lines of "settings" -- in no particular order
(well, there's an order, of course, but not one that you can easily
remember your place: "I got through the G's..."). So, I know to leave
breadcrumbs for myself -- a line of "*********" that I cut and paste
into the general place I'm working from time to time (in case my
telnet(1) session abends, power fails or I get careless and close the
session or editor prematurely)

The real ****er is when I'm rendering a 3D animation or something
that the machine just crunches on for a *really* long time -- it
usually can't be "resumed" if the power drops out in the middle.

On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
I mainly want protection from dropouts, brownouts, etc. If the power
is going to fail, I can drag out a laptop. But, I'd hate to lose what
I am working on just because the lights flickered... It's also
amusing how easy it is to FORGET what (exactly) you were doing when
the screen unexpectedly goes black!

Ironically, when the power does go out I know I can still keep working on
the UPS power for a while. So, I'm usually in no hurry to shut things down
and stop working. Of course, at some point the battery power runs out and
the system shuts down automatically. It's my own fault for not stopping
gracefully when I had warning, but I get a false sense of endless power and
just keep working.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

When the power goes out, the cellphone works for me. I'm sure people
will say it's not as reliable as copper, etc, but IMO, not worth all
the worrying about extreme hypothetical situations. Each has it's
advantages and disadvantages.

On Sat, 14 May 2016 08:57:03 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
I mainly want protection from dropouts, brownouts, etc. If the power
is going to fail, I can drag out a laptop. But, I'd hate to lose what
I am working on just because the lights flickered... It's also
amusing how easy it is to FORGET what (exactly) you were doing when
the screen unexpectedly goes black!

Ironically, when the power does go out I know I can still keep working on
the UPS power for a while. So, I'm usually in no hurry to shut things down
and stop working. Of course, at some point the battery power runs out and
the system shuts down automatically. It's my own fault for not stopping
gracefully when I had warning, but I get a false sense of endless power and
just keep working.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

When the power goes out, the cellphone works for me. I'm sure people
will say it's not as reliable as copper, etc, but IMO, not worth all
the worrying about extreme hypothetical situations. Each has it's
advantages and disadvantages.

I have been through several hurricanes here in Florida. Internet is
the first thing to go. Power failures will take that out, even if it
is not bad where you are. Anything up on a pole is going to go early
too so power is at risk. Cell phones are going to be spotty and cable
TV is worse.
Phone infrastructure is buried in my area and I have never lost my
POTS phone and my DBS satellite comes back as soon as the sky clears.
Broadcast TV was still there in the storm.

On 5/14/2016 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 08:57:03 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
When the power goes out, the cellphone works for me. I'm sure people
will say it's not as reliable as copper, etc, but IMO, not worth all
the worrying about extreme hypothetical situations. Each has it's
advantages and disadvantages.

I have been through several hurricanes here in Florida. Internet is
the first thing to go. Power failures will take that out, even if it
is not bad where you are. Anything up on a pole is going to go early
too so power is at risk. Cell phones are going to be spotty and cable
TV is worse.
Phone infrastructure is buried in my area and I have never lost my
POTS phone and my DBS satellite comes back as soon as the sky clears.
Broadcast TV was still there in the storm.

Thanks for the real world report. I've kept my POTS
line for the power cuts that happen now and again.
I suspect the cell phone would go down after a while,
as the backup batteries discharge. Well, same for
POTS, but some time later. During the 2003 ice storm,
I was without power four days. Cell and POTS kept
working.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 05/13/2016 12:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 9:55 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I have a 3-handset cordless phone that allows up to 10 handsets. I
looked on
the internet for extra handsets and they cost so much I was better off
buying
another system (and that comes with an extra base, too).

I think the reasoning is that:
- not many people (relatively speaking) want extra bases (so, quantities
are lower, shelf space gets wasted on products with low turnover, etc.)

The extra base was very useful when the first one failed.

- people who want more, can *afford* to pay more (for the convenience
of having interchangeable handsets)


These ARE interchangeable. I bought another set of the same model.

Be careful running multiple bases concurrently. Some may not like this.


I never did. The second base was to replace the first one when it failed.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." --
Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899), "Some Mistakes Of Moses"

On 05/13/2016 01:09 PM, wrote:

[snip]

You also want to be careful what frequency they are on. One of my
neighbors is on 900mz and I get them on my wireless headset. I had to
move my audio to another channel.


With some of the older (pre-900MHz?) cordless phones, you had to
exchange it with one that used a different channel if you had
interference. IIRC, 900MHz devices let you change the channel. Later
ones should automatically find a clear channel.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." --
Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899), "Some Mistakes Of Moses"

On 05/13/2016 09:07 PM, Micky wrote:

[snip]

Be careful running multiple bases concurrently. Some may not like this.

I figured he meant it was a spare, for when the first one breaks, like
I have it.


That's right. And I needed it too, when the answering machine in the
first base failed.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." --
Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899), "Some Mistakes Of Moses"

On 05/14/2016 10:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

When the power goes out, the cellphone works for me. I'm sure people
will say it's not as reliable as copper, etc, but IMO, not worth all
the worrying about extreme hypothetical situations. Each has it's
advantages and disadvantages.


When we had a tornado last year, cell phone service was unreliable
(probably overloaded and dropping calls), but was working OK in less
than an hour. Wired phone was out for 5 days.

In the previous major outage (hurricane Ike), wired phone was out for a
couple of days. Cell worked all that time.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." --
Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899), "Some Mistakes Of Moses"

On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 2:11:22 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 05/14/2016 10:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

When the power goes out, the cellphone works for me. I'm sure people
will say it's not as reliable as copper, etc, but IMO, not worth all
the worrying about extreme hypothetical situations. Each has it's
advantages and disadvantages.


When we had a tornado last year, cell phone service was unreliable
(probably overloaded and dropping calls), but was working OK in less
than an hour. Wired phone was out for 5 days.

In the previous major outage (hurricane Ike), wired phone was out for a
couple of days. Cell worked all that time.

It was the same here in NJ after Sandy. I had cell service the whole
time. Landline in my specific area, I can't say, because I don't have
it, but given the extent of lines down all over and that many shore
towns the poles and everything were kaput, I think a lot of landline
service was out. In many of those badly damaged shore towns, Verizon
will not be putting copper back in, it's gone for good.

On Sat, 14 May 2016 12:18:33 -0400, wrote:

I have been through several hurricanes here in Florida. Internet is
the first thing to go. Power failures will take that out, even if it
is not bad where you are. Anything up on a pole is going to go early
too so power is at risk. Cell phones are going to be spotty and cable
TV is worse.
Phone infrastructure is buried in my area and I have never lost my
POTS phone and my DBS satellite comes back as soon as the sky clears.
Broadcast TV was still there in the storm.

Went through Donna in '60 (and others). We had power until the
neighbor's carport roof landed in our back yard and took out the power
line to the house.

At the end, more than 30 people survived at our home.