On 2/17/2016 8:54 AM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 9:45:53 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/17/2016 6:22 AM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 1:07:06 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/16/2016 9:10 PM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 7:06:58 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
(many tanks are glass lined; metal into glass is a big FAIL)


I think "glass" is most likely "fiberglas." Can't imagine transporting a real glass tank without breaking it.

No, it's real glass (fused to the metal tank).

Huh, you may be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyIjwMdD1JY

Now, imagine trying to remove -- for the purpose of repair -- something that
screws *into* a hole MANUFACTURED in that "glass bowl"... without cracking
the glass (which won't cause it to leak, in itself, but *will* eventually

Did you look at the video?

Is your water heater tank several thousand gallons? :

It's not a glass bowl.

Would you rather I'd said "glass lined, formed sheet metal"? :

It's a glassy coating equivalent to a powder coat. Huge tanks are routinely
assembled by bolting them together. Cracking the glass is not an issue.

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.

Note that the manufacturer has undoubtedly tweaked his "process" to economize
on the amount of glass fused to the tank structure (both to save on material
costs as well as energy costs). He's also tweaked the related components
to save there as well as minimizing any losses that he might incur
assembling the units!

You can bet your *ss that he hasn't factored the homeowner's (unskilled)
actions into this, down the road. And, plumbing professionals would
sooner recommend replacing the entire tank than fitting a new valve
("Mr Smith, I could replace the valve for $250 -- which might get a few
more years out of this tank -- or, get you a whole new tank for $400")

I.e., there is no incentive for the manufacturer to make the unit
"robust" and "repairable". They *know* the TPR will only be activated
rarely -- and, the tank probably replaced when that happens. Likewise,
they *know* you won't be regularly draining the tank so they also
know you won't be replacing that crappy valve!

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 05:10:24 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:51:24 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Cut it open and found only a tablespoon of sediment in the bottom.
Only 1/4" high. Since the heating element was a few inches higher
than the bottom, it would have taken over 250 years before the
sediment reached the element. If it does't reach the element, it
causes no harm.

* INCORRECT *

Nothing you have below makes what I said incorrect.

If the element becomes encased in sediment, it develops hot spots, which
causes it to fail, as well as distort and deform. I've seen it more than
once. Sometimes you cant even remove them, because the element is so
stuck in the sediment, as well as deformed, that it wont come out of the
tank.

In YOUR case it might take 250 years, but I know one nearby town on
"city water" where a water heater becomes half full of lime sediment
(sludge) in about 3 years. I have helped several people replace their WH
and it's almost shocking how bad they are. The plumbers in that town
make a lot of money just replacing WHs.

So, I told her to check with neighbors with similar water and water
softeners.

Actually, my WH came from a house that was being demolished. The guy
doing the demo needed help and posted an ad. I inquired and got hired.
The pay was lousy, but he said I could have any lumber I wanted to
salvage. I stocked up on lumber, took down the whole garage and saved
all of it, and got quite a bit from the house too. I noticed an electric
water heater which was dated and only 2 years old. He told me to take it
if I wanted it. I did. When I got it home, it was 1/3 full of lime. But

Are you saying a 4 foot water heater had 16" of lime in the bottom?
How come they kept using it after the lime covered the heating
element?

I was in need of a WH, so I removed the elements, the drain valve,
relief valve, and of course the pipes were removed. I laid it on it's
side (on my lawn), with some 4x4s under it, and with the element holes
down. I stuck my garden hose in it and rocked it back and forth. That
lime just fell out in chunks, and when I was done, I had to rake it up
from my lawn. I filled 1 - 1/2 five gallon pails with that lime.

I replaced the deformed lower element, and put it back together and had
a good (almost new) WH, for the price of one element. I've been using it
for 3 or 4 years now, and it works fine.

I have a well, so I dont have that lousy city water with all it's lime.

Apparently there's something wrong with the city water near you. I
never said all city water was the same. In fact I pointed out that I
had city water to let the OP know that my results might be different
from his with a well. But now iiuyc you're saying that you're well
water doesn't have a lime (or other sediment) problem. He'll be happy
to hear that.

My water is kind of hard and leaves an orange ring in the toilet (iron),
but aside from a little extra scrubbing of the toilet, it's not a
problem.

On 2/17/2016 8:46 AM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:

I have not been following the thread - so this may have been mentioned -
but the "drain valve" on MOST water heaters is so pitiful that even if you
drained it monthly it would never last the life of the water heater. Many
fail the first time they are used. Cheap chinese plastic crap. That is one
more difference between cheap and better quality heaters. The good ones
get rebuildable brass drain valves.

Ditto to that. A neighbor had a leaking water heater a few years ago. I
remember having a hard time opening the plastic valve without risking
breaking it. Mfr probably saved $10 cost.

I'm sure they saved *much* less than $10!

People would be amazed to know what things actually cost.
And, in most cases, unable to understand why the *price*
was so much higher ("Wow! Look at all that PROFIT!")

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.

Don Y wrote:
On 2/17/2016 6:22 AM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 1:07:06 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 2/16/2016 9:10 PM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 7:06:58 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
(many tanks are glass lined; metal into glass is a big FAIL)


I think "glass" is most likely "fiberglas." Can't imagine
transporting a real glass tank without breaking it.

No, it's real glass (fused to the metal tank).

Huh, you may be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyIjwMdD1JY

Now, imagine trying to remove -- for the purpose of repair --
something that screws *into* a hole MANUFACTURED in that "glass
bowl"... without cracking the glass (which won't cause it to leak, in
itself, but *will* eventually defeat the purpose of the glass
(preventing corrosion of the supporting metal) and cause a premature
failure.
The same is true of the temperature/pressure relief valve on the top
of the tank (and the sacrificial anode which screws in from above).

I.e., the SUGGESTED maintenance activities all pose significant risk.

I doubt if removing a plastic valve is any risk, other than the valve breaking.
Use a plastic nipple when installing the new valve if you're worried. I doubt if
the glass gets into the threaded area much, so brass should be fine. The anode
protects the small part of exposed steel in the thread.

i'm going to look up my Model #

and see if there are any instructions, about draining...


marc

I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.


I recently had a new water heater installed. The manual says to drain the tank every six months.

On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

On 02/16/2016 06:09 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

[snip]

We're on a well so all of our water is softened. No hard water here.

The water heater is heavily insulated.

Some people have a water hardener in the kitchen. It's also called an
icemaker.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 06:09 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

[snip]

We're on a well so all of our water is softened. No hard water here.

The water heater is heavily insulated.

Some people have a water hardener in the kitchen. It's also called an
icemaker.

Speaking of a water heater our Kenmore 9 year warrantied one on it's
16th year quit this morning(massive leak). Tomorrow one is being
intalled and I was given a choice between A.O. Smith or Bradford White
NG burning 50 Gal. unit. One is better than the other? I am wondering.

bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

On 2/16/2016 5:28 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses. This place can be a
literal fountain of good information.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you already had hot water!

On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.

--
Maggie

Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.

NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 4:07:18 PM UTC-6, Muggles wrote:

We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.

--
Maggie

....now you'll get all theorists chiming-in, good God!

On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.
--
Maggie

On 2/17/2016 4:12 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 4:07:18 PM UTC-6, Muggles wrote:

We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.



...now you'll get all theorists chiming-in, good God!


Well, at least it's a home repair topic! LOL Maybe someone with more
experience than the guy who installed our water heater has heard of this
before.

I haven't touched the thermostat because I'm afraid if I change it,
it'll start having that gas smell again.

--
Maggie

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 07:46:15 -0800, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"
wrote:

wrote in message ...
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 05:16:40 -0600, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 02:30:35 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote in

Why so complicated? Hook a hose from the
spigot to a drain. Open the valve, let
the water pressure blow some sediment out.
Don't touch the power or TP valve.

+1. No need to drain-to-empty. All you need to be doing is flushing
a few gallons out the bottom to remove the sediment.

Depends a lot on the water heater. I might consider draining an
electric heater, but have found it a total waste of time on gas - but
then I buy the better heater with the "turbulator tube" that does not
allow any sediment to build up.

I have not been following the thread - so this may have been mentioned
- but the "drain valve" on MOST water heaters is so pitiful that even
if you drained it monthly it would never last the life of the water
heater. Many fail the first time they are used. Cheap chinese plastic
crap. That is one more difference between cheap and better quality
heaters. The good ones get rebuildable brass drain valves.

Ditto to that. A neighbor had a leaking water heater a few years ago. I remember having a hard time opening the plastic valve without risking breaking it. Mfr probably saved $10 cost.

Would you believe less than a dollar at manufacturer's cost??? Mabee
as much as $2 on a real good day.

Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:28:10 -0600, SeaNymph
wrote:

I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.

Did anyone ever ask you if you had a gas or electric water heater?
With many questions it makes a difference. You could have volunteered
it.

On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less
energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came
back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell
issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.


ok So, if the temp is lower it's not high enough to burn all the gas
feeding it?

--
Maggie

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 20:14:32 -0500, wrote:


I have not been following the thread - so this may have been mentioned
- but the "drain valve" on MOST water heaters is so pitiful that even
if you drained it monthly it would never last the life of the water
heater. Many fail the first time they are used. Cheap chinese plastic
crap. That is one more difference between cheap and better quality
heaters. The good ones get rebuildable brass drain valves.

Ditto to that. A neighbor had a leaking water heater a few years ago.
I remember having a hard time opening the plastic valve without risking b
reaking it. Mfr probably saved $10 cost.

Would you believe less than a dollar at manufacturer's cost??? Mabee
as much as $2 on a real good day.

When they break or leak, I just replace them with a solid brass spigot.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:06:19 -0600, Muggles
wrote:

On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less
energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came
back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell
issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.


ok So, if the temp is lower it's not high enough to burn all the gas
feeding it?
I'm suspicious he adjusted the air regulator, not the thermostat. Not
all water heaters have an adjustable shutter, but on those that do, a
bad air adjustment can cause incomplete combustion, resulting in a
mercapitan smell.

The thermostat doesn't affect the flame at all - all it does is turn
the fire on and off depending on water temperature.

On 2/17/2016 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:06:19 -0600, Muggles
wrote:

On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less
energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came
back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell
issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.


ok So, if the temp is lower it's not high enough to burn all the gas
feeding it?

I'm suspicious he adjusted the air regulator, not the thermostat. Not
all water heaters have an adjustable shutter, but on those that do, a
bad air adjustment can cause incomplete combustion, resulting in a
mercapitan smell.

The thermostat doesn't affect the flame at all - all it does is turn
the fire on and off depending on water temperature.


I'm not sure about any shutter, but it's possible he could have done
that. I was just glad the gas smell stopped.

--
Maggie

On 2/17/2016 11:06 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]
||
|| [christmas presents]

On 2/17/2016 9:30 PM, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:28:10 -0600, SeaNymph
wrote:

I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.

Did anyone ever ask you if you had a gas or electric water heater?
With many questions it makes a difference. You could have volunteered
it.

I don't remember, but if someone had asked, I would have told them.
It's actually an electric Marathon.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.

Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less
energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came
back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell
issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.


ok So, if the temp is lower it's not high enough to burn all the gas
feeding it?

Remember old cars with choke? Cold engine uses more gasoline. Same idea.
NG when burning normally flame tips look blue in color. Yellowish color
means poor combustion due to lack of fresh air or too much gas. In the
case of car you can smell gasoline or black smoke(unburned gasoline) out
of tail pipe. Also gas pressure feeding water heater or furnace have to
be correct. Your gas meter has a pressure regulator. Your gas BBQ has a
pressure regulator, etc. My house is built on R2000 specs back then. If
I don't bring in outside fresh air, furnace and water heater will be
starving for combustion air causing danger of CO level rising indoor.

Micky wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.

I pass a tank with plastic drain valve. After not having hot water over
night they just replaced one with Bradford White 50 Gal. one this
morning. For some reason most of new tanks are tall ones now. Not many
short ones around. Had to cut off copper pipes to accommodate new one.

On 2/18/2016 11:14 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 8:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 2/17/2016 4:01 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 3:51:48 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang
wrote:
bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-6, hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 05:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Why do you heat hot water? Most folks have cold
water heaters.


"Heating hot water" is preferable since it takes much less
energy and
time than heating cold water.

It might be preferable...but more than likely, unnecessary!

I'd think cold water coming into tank will mix with heated water.

That happens at the mixer, remember...you wouldn't need a tank if
you
already had hot water!


We had a new water heater installed a couple of years ago, but it
had a
problem with a gas smell around it, off and on. The installer came
back
several times looking for leaks in the gas line and couldn't find
any,
but still there was the smell of gas. At one point he adjusted the
thermostat a bit higher so the water would be just a little bit
hotter
than previously, and no more gas smell after that adjustment was
made.

I never understood how that adjustment would affect the gas smell
issue,
but the tank has worked well since then.


NG smell is artificially added to the gas so we can detect gas leak.
Same smell can come from Sulphur rich water(often well water) Do you
use well water?

No, we use city water.

It took the installer 3 visits over about a weeks time looking for
leaks
before he adjusted the heating temperature on the tank. After he did
that there was no gas smell at all.

Maybe raising temp. increased the combustion of NG then.


ok So, if the temp is lower it's not high enough to burn all the gas
feeding it?

Remember old cars with choke? Cold engine uses more gasoline. Same idea.
NG when burning normally flame tips look blue in color. Yellowish color
means poor combustion due to lack of fresh air or too much gas. In the
case of car you can smell gasoline or black smoke(unburned gasoline) out
of tail pipe. Also gas pressure feeding water heater or furnace have to
be correct. Your gas meter has a pressure regulator. Your gas BBQ has a
pressure regulator, etc. My house is built on R2000 specs back then. If
I don't bring in outside fresh air, furnace and water heater will be
starving for combustion air causing danger of CO level rising indoor.

Ok I understand. Thanks!

--
Maggie

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 1:50:23 PM UTC-8, Tony Hwang wrote:
hah wrote:
On 02/16/2016 06:09 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

[snip]

We're on a well so all of our water is softened. No hard water here.

The water heater is heavily insulated.

Some people have a water hardener in the kitchen. It's also called an
icemaker.

Speaking of a water heater our Kenmore 9 year warrantied one on it's
16th year quit this morning(massive leak). Tomorrow one is being
intalled and I was given a choice between A.O. Smith or Bradford White
NG burning 50 Gal. unit. One is better than the other? I am wondering.

i currently have an A.O Smith,

and i think it works fine, just like a real water heater

marc

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:55:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.
Sears doesn't make their own water heaters. The last sears I
installed was a white something-or-other with a sears sticker on it.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 20:39:27 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:55:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.
Sears doesn't make their own water heaters. The last sears I
installed was a white something-or-other with a sears sticker on it.

These seem identical to the one by AOSmith that came with the house.
FWIW I did mention that brand in an earlier post.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 02:18:05 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 20:39:27 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:55:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.
Sears doesn't make their own water heaters. The last sears I
installed was a white something-or-other with a sears sticker on it.

These seem identical to the one by AOSmith that came with the house.
FWIW I did mention that brand in an earlier post.
The one I installed in the neighbour's house about 15 years ago was
Bradford White with the sears name. A few years earlier they were
GSW. It all depends who responds to the supply tenders, with what
feature list and cost.

wrote in message ...
On Fri, 19 Feb 2016 02:18:05 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 20:39:27 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:55:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 10:31:04 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Sure it is! When you break the drain or TPR, you're going to wander down
to HD/Lowes and probably end up buying a BRASS replacement part. Then,
you're going to screw this into the existing hole -- making sure it's
a good, tight fit.

This puts strains on the metal and the glass fused to it.


Uh, have you ever put a wrench on a water heater fitting? Ever take the anode out? Takes serious muscle. It doesn't distort the tank. Obviously the fittings are designed to take a load.

My point about the bolted tank is you really have to snug a bolt down tight, holding a plate and several thousand gallons (biggest tank we have at work is 420,000 gallons). If the glass coating can tolerate that, a homeowner with an 8 inch crescent isn't even noise.

FWIW, the last time I bought a Sears water heater, I opened the box
and the water inlet or outlet was at a small angle. and the top of the
WH, the sheet metal, was dented. They must have put something heavy
on box.

My ex-gf said to take it back, but that would all be on me. Dragging
it up the stairs, having to drive 3 miles, wait around, 3 miles back.
(I put it on the back of my LeBaron convertible, so that requires
tying in on both going and coming.)

Anyhow, i hooked it up and it's been fine for 5 years now.

Of course it's Sears, which uses a sheet of vinyl and not actual
glass.

I still don't drain a tank because I'm wary of the valve not closing. But if I started with a new tank I wouldn't be afraid to put a decent valve on it.
Sears doesn't make their own water heaters. The last sears I
installed was a white something-or-other with a sears sticker on it.

These seem identical to the one by AOSmith that came with the house.
FWIW I did mention that brand in an earlier post.
The one I installed in the neighbour's house about 15 years ago was
Bradford White with the sears name. A few years earlier they were
GSW. It all depends who responds to the supply tenders, with what
feature list and cost.

Last water heater I bought was 3-4 years ago, one of Sears' brands from Orchard Supply Hardware, which was a subsidiary of Sears now closed. There was a problem starting it up. Because it was brand new, I didn't pay much attention and Sears sent a tech out. He order a new electrical assy (can't even remember what that was) and then came back and installed it all under warranty. Since then it has run perfectly. I check it from time to time, flame color, etc. and not problems so far knock on wood.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 19:28:56 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:26:19 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:


I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.


I used to drain mine but it didn't seem to make any difference in how
long they lasted. What I found works best is to buy the cheapest tank
you can get, then turn the temperature down to about 125. At lower
temperatures it seems that far less sediment precipitates out and the
tank lasts much longer. The "six year" tanks typically last 10 years
or more at the lower temperature. With all the time you saved over

TIME?
How much time does it take to connect a garden hose, run it to a floor
drain, shut off the flame or electric, and the cold water valve. The
draining itself can happen while you cook supper or watch a movie. Then
you close that drain valve, remove the hose and turn back on the heating
source and cold water.

10 minutes worth of time at most....

Perhaps it depends on the water quality where you live. When I kept
the temperature set at "normal" there would be so much sediment after
a year that water would not drain from the drain. I would have to use
a screwdriver and jam it up into the drain and break up the sediment
to get the water flowing. Then put the hose on, let it drain for a
couple minutes, then it would plug with sediment again and I'd have to
disconnect the hose, poke it with the screwdriver again and do that a
dozen or more times. With electric water heaters I have more then
once had the bottom electrode burn out due to the sediment building up
over it and preventing enough water to get to it to keep it from
boiling off the water and then burning up and blowing the fuse. I had
one where I almost couldn't get the electrode out it was so badly
trapped with sediment.

After that happening a few times I tried to get to draining them each
year and discovered it was NOT a 10 minute job but the arduous task I
described. That was when I started turning the temp down and just
ignoring draining them and found they lasted at least 10 years.

So my final answer Alex is to set the temp at 125 and ignore it till
it starts to leak, probably between year 10 and 15.



You probably spend at least 10 minutes daily brushing your teeth and
shaving!

the years not bothering to drain them you have saved up enough time to
spend the half day just replacing it once a decade.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:30:51 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:28:10 -0600, SeaNymph
wrote:

I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.

Did anyone ever ask you if you had a gas or electric water heater?
With many questions it makes a difference. You could have volunteered
it.

BTW, my last two WH, maybe all 3, do have the thing that swirls the
water when fresh water enters, but I'm not sure if or how that lessens
sediment, despite the vendor's claims. The plastic input tube goes
almost to the bottom of the WH and then goes to the outside and turns
to be parallel to the outside of the circle.

How would that lessen sediment.

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:46:37 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:30:51 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:28:10 -0600, SeaNymph
wrote:

I apologize if this was discussed before my time.

We have an 85 gallon Marathon water heater, which I really like. I've
read different things about periodically training water heaters and I
don't know what to believe.

I'm not sure if its necessary, just wondering what others think.

Did anyone ever ask you if you had a gas or electric water heater?
With many questions it makes a difference. You could have volunteered
it.

BTW, my last two WH, maybe all 3, do have the thing that swirls the
water when fresh water enters, but I'm not sure if or how that lessens
sediment, despite the vendor's claims. The plastic input tube goes
almost to the bottom of the WH and then goes to the outside and turns
to be parallel to the outside of the circle.

How would that lessen sediment.
It causes the water to swirl whenever it enters, keeping sediment
from "settling" so you don't get an accumulation in the bottom. They
work. (turbulator tube)