My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 1:02:59 AM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy

Are we talking real potholes or small surface defects where small
shells once were? In any case, seal coating that's applied has
minimal filling capability. It's to make the surface look nice
and give it some protection against deterioration, but not a lot.
If you do a driveway with it periodically it makes it look nice
and uniform, dark black, etc. But I doubt it adds a lot to the
life of the driveway. How long it lasts depends a lot on the
amount of traffic on it.

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

trader_4 wrote:

In any case, seal coating that's applied has
minimal filling capability. It's to make the surface look nice
and give it some protection against deterioration, but not a lot.
If you do a driveway with it periodically it makes it look nice
and uniform, dark black, etc. But I doubt it adds a lot to the
life of the driveway. How long it lasts depends a lot on the
amount of traffic on it.

Seat coating does two things: it makes the surface look good and it fills the
microcracks. Microcracks allow water to penetrate. In warmer climates, that
doesn't matter a whole lot. In cold climates, it prevents water from freezing,
which preserves the integrity of the asphalt and definietly extends the life.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:02:48 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy


Depends what coating he used and where you are. There are coal-tar
emulsion coatings, asphault coatings, and several different asrylic
coatings Some stand up well, some not at all - and it depends when and
how they are applied. They all work best on perfectly clean (well
swept) surfaces with no oil contamination - applied to a dry surface
within a specific temperature range, and not rained on for 24 or more
hours.

The coating will do nothing for potholes - they need to be "properly"
filled first.

On 01/29/2016 11:02 PM, Andy wrote:
Will that coating really last ?

How do you define 'last'? I haven't been paying strict attention but
around here commercial parking lots and so forth are resealed every few
years.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 11:34:29 AM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 01/29/2016 11:02 PM, Andy wrote:
Will that coating really last ?

How do you define 'last'? I haven't been paying strict attention but
around here commercial parking lots and so forth are resealed every few
years.

Thanks for all the responses.

Andy

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:53:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down.

Oil is the generic term for petroleum products used in the paving
industry. The industry calls what is in the AC mixes and what's
sprayed on roads "oil" all the time. Often people talk about "oil
content" even though the more correct term is "asphalt cement
content", etc.

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 7:58:28 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:53:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down.

Oil is the generic term for petroleum products used in the paving
industry. The industry calls what is in the AC mixes and what's
sprayed on roads "oil" all the time. Often people talk about "oil
content" even though the more correct term is "asphalt cement
content", etc.

Maybe in your world, but not mine. I've dealt with seal coating companies
for condo complexes, home driveways, etc. Never heard them call it oil. It's
like calling plastic, or epoxy or similar oil, because it's made from it.

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 9:36:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 7:58:28 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:53:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down.

Oil is the generic term for petroleum products used in the paving
industry. The industry calls what is in the AC mixes and what's
sprayed on roads "oil" all the time. Often people talk about "oil
content" even though the more correct term is "asphalt cement
content", etc.

Maybe in your world, but not mine. I've dealt with seal coating companies
for condo complexes, home driveways, etc. Never heard them call it oil. It's
like calling plastic, or epoxy or similar oil, because it's made from it.

This page discusses three types of asphalt sealcoating materials:

Coal Tar Emulsion
Asphalt Emulsion
Oil Based sealers.

It specifically notes that the oil based sealer "is primarily used by
asphalt paving contractors because it is located at the asphalt plants.
Not many professional sealcoating companies use this type of sealer due
to the inherent limitations.

http://www.justsealit.net/materials_explained.html

Is it possible that you have been dealing with "professional sealcoating
companies" as opposed to "asphalt paving contractors" which would have meant
that the oil based sealer was left out of the mix?

(Granted, I doubt all sealcoating options are generically referred to as
"oil" since it appears to be a specific type of sealcoating material.)

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 11:37:21 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 9:36:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 7:58:28 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:53:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down..

Oil is the generic term for petroleum products used in the paving
industry. The industry calls what is in the AC mixes and what's
sprayed on roads "oil" all the time. Often people talk about "oil
content" even though the more correct term is "asphalt cement
content", etc.

Maybe in your world, but not mine. I've dealt with seal coating companies
for condo complexes, home driveways, etc. Never heard them call it oil.. It's
like calling plastic, or epoxy or similar oil, because it's made from it.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:36:05 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 7:58:28 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:53:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 07:37:46 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 1/30/2016 1:02 AM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

Just curious,

Andy



I can't tell how long it may last but know that asphalt is a mixture of
sand, rocks and tar. The resin/tar binder content is low, maybe 10% and
material has voids where moisture can seep in and freezing and thawing
degrade the asphalt.

When I had my driveway repaved a couple of years ago, rain would just
seep right through. Coating helps seal these voids and its efficiency
depends on how much is used. Guy that put mine in wanted to come back
and coat it every year and I let him do it the first year but it was
chincy and now I do it myself with coatings that can last several years.

I read some advantages of shells in asphalt, apparently increasing the
wetting of sand and rocks but I would think that shells being calcium
carbonate would erode faster.

They absorb oil well which is good for keeping the whole thing stuck
together but it's bad in the sense that it costs more for the extra
asphalt that soaks into them. And they are not very hard so they wear
faster on highways but in a parking lot it may not be a big deal. If
they are still shells the odd shape may have made it more difficult
for them to get fully coated so they stick well in the original mix
but I wouldn't think it would make much difference when you are
spraying a seal on the top. The life is going to depend on how much
oil was sprayed on, what type of oil, etc. as well as what's under it.
It's unlikely it will last more then 5 years in terms of effectiveness
and might only last 1 or 2.

Typical sealant used on parking lots, driveways, etc is not oil.
I've never seen oil used, except on dirt roads to keep the dust down.

Oil is the generic term for petroleum products used in the paving
industry. The industry calls what is in the AC mixes and what's
sprayed on roads "oil" all the time. Often people talk about "oil
content" even though the more correct term is "asphalt cement
content", etc.

Maybe in your world, but not mine. I've dealt with seal coating companies
for condo complexes, home driveways, etc. Never heard them call it oil. It's
like calling plastic, or epoxy or similar oil, because it's made from it.

My world is 37 years in the Highway construction industry as a
professional engineer and manager specializing in paving, materials
design and management, both asphalt and concrete, laboratory testing
of liquid petroleum products and AC and PCC mixes with presentations
at international conferences and consulting with local, national and
international groups on their paving problems. "oil" is a very common
term used in the industry for the many and various forms of petroleum
products. Perhaps your local experience with seal coating driveways
may not encompass as broad a view of the totality of the industry.

On 1/29/2016 11:02 PM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

While not intending to hijack your thread, this is probably the best
place to ask:

What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

A local organization is looking at purchasing a modest sized building
with a large parking lot -- primarily for the off-street parking
that it provides.

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

I've tried to point this out to the interested parties but I
suspect they are so enamored with the AMOUNT of parking space
that they are too eagerly overlooking the cost, down-the-road,
of making that space truly usable!

It would be nice to have some general idea as to whether this
is tens of thousands of dollars or *hundreds* of thousands!

Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 2:17:19 PM UTC-5, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

Check back with me in a year or so.

My street was a mess of patches and cracked asphalt. My town was going
to mill the surface and then lay asphalt. They changed their minds and
milled only the ends where my street meets the cross streets and then
"raised" the rest of the street with about 3 inches of fresh asphalt.
They then came back and added aprons at each of our driveways to eliminate
the lip.

We'll have to see how this works out as time goes by. The reason it may
work is that there are only 7 houses on my street and it is rarely used
as a through route - usually only when someone is lost. For now, I'm
loving the new road.

On 2/3/2016 12:16 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

Isn't that what I said:
One would almost think it easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade
it and then lay *new* asphalt!

Which leaves the original questions:
What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Check back with me in a year or so.

My street was a mess of patches and cracked asphalt. My town was going
to mill the surface and then lay asphalt. They changed their minds and
milled only the ends where my street meets the cross streets and then
"raised" the rest of the street with about 3 inches of fresh asphalt.
They then came back and added aprons at each of our driveways to eliminate
the lip.

We'll have to see how this works out as time goes by. The reason it may
work is that there are only 7 houses on my street and it is rarely used
as a through route - usually only when someone is lost. For now, I'm
loving the new road.

It depends on what the problem was. If the only problem was that the original
asphalt had broken down and looked like croc skin, then you may get away with it
for a while. The problem is that unstable asphalt doesn't make the best base.

If there are lots of large cracks and potholes, those will show through the new
surface quite quickly. Same principle as painting without prep.

Don Y wrote:

Isn't that what I said:
One would almost think it easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade
it and then lay *new* asphalt!

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

Which leaves the original questions:
What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

I would expect any reputable paving contractor (not sealcoat company) would
handle the whole job.

Cost such a local thing, you are going to have to talk to a couple of local
contractors to get quotes. Does have the equipment and crew or does he have to
sub out some of the work? How hungry is he?

How he comes up with his number is kind of immaterial. You don't know if he has
a large nut to cover or brings on crew and equipment as needed. He's also not
going to give you a quote without looking at the site. There's all sorts of
things that need to go into the quote - access, drains, curbs, light poles, off
site parking for crew and equipment, easments, permits...

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:39:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/29/2016 11:02 PM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

While not intending to hijack your thread, this is probably the best
place to ask:

What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

A local organization is looking at purchasing a modest sized building
with a large parking lot -- primarily for the off-street parking
that it provides.

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

I've tried to point this out to the interested parties but I
suspect they are so enamored with the AMOUNT of parking space
that they are too eagerly overlooking the cost, down-the-road,
of making that space truly usable!

It would be nice to have some general idea as to whether this
is tens of thousands of dollars or *hundreds* of thousands!
Think $2-$4 per square foot for the paving, plus removal and
renovation costs. I'd suspect the hundred thousand dollar guess
would be on the low side.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:16:52 -0700, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.
Only a total fool would repave over a non-stable pavement.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:32:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 2:17:19 PM UTC-5, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

Check back with me in a year or so.

My street was a mess of patches and cracked asphalt. My town was going
to mill the surface and then lay asphalt. They changed their minds and
milled only the ends where my street meets the cross streets and then
"raised" the rest of the street with about 3 inches of fresh asphalt.
They then came back and added aprons at each of our driveways to eliminate
the lip.

We'll have to see how this works out as time goes by. The reason it may
work is that there are only 7 houses on my street and it is rarely used
as a through route - usually only when someone is lost. For now, I'm
loving the new road.
We were without pavement for a few weeks last summer as the city
tore out all the (breaking up but not terrible) 40 year old asphalt
paving on the streets in our subdivision, repairing the underying
roadbed (excavating and relaying and tamping the gravel ro a depth of
about 4 feet) then repaving.It'll be another 40 years before they have
to do it again - even being on a bus route.

A patch job would have cost about 1/4, and they'd have been back at it
in 5 or 6 years.....and likely have to do the "whole job" the second
or third time anyway - at a higher cost.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:55:46 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/3/2016 12:16 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

Isn't that what I said:
One would almost think it easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade
it and then lay *new* asphalt!

Which leaves the original questions:
What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

Following up to my answer - re cost per square foot - yes the paving
contractor generally does the removal and excavation.
Any company that does not have that capability should stick to
residential driveways - which require less equipment .

On 2/3/2016 4:13 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

Isn't that what I said:
One would almost think it easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade
it and then lay *new* asphalt!

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

Which leaves the original questions:
What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

I would expect any reputable paving contractor (not sealcoat company) would
handle the whole job.

Cost such a local thing, you are going to have to talk to a couple of local
contractors to get quotes. Does have the equipment and crew or does he have to
sub out some of the work? How hungry is he?

How he comes up with his number is kind of immaterial. You don't know if he has
a large nut to cover or brings on crew and equipment as needed. He's also not
going to give you a quote without looking at the site. There's all sorts of
things that need to go into the quote - access, drains, curbs, light poles, off
site parking for crew and equipment, easments, permits...


Is any soil testing required or being done?

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 6:00:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:32:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 2:17:19 PM UTC-5, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Don Y wrote:

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

Paving over a subsurface that needs repair is throwing money away. Every crack
and pothole will reflect right through the new asphalt. Far less labor and cheap
material to rake up the old surface, roll down new roadbase and cover.

Check back with me in a year or so.

My street was a mess of patches and cracked asphalt. My town was going
to mill the surface and then lay asphalt. They changed their minds and
milled only the ends where my street meets the cross streets and then
"raised" the rest of the street with about 3 inches of fresh asphalt.
They then came back and added aprons at each of our driveways to eliminate
the lip.

We'll have to see how this works out as time goes by. The reason it may
work is that there are only 7 houses on my street and it is rarely used
as a through route - usually only when someone is lost. For now, I'm
loving the new road.
We were without pavement for a few weeks last summer as the city
tore out all the (breaking up but not terrible) 40 year old asphalt
paving on the streets in our subdivision, repairing the underying
roadbed (excavating and relaying and tamping the gravel ro a depth of
about 4 feet) then repaving.It'll be another 40 years before they have
to do it again - even being on a bus route.

A patch job would have cost about 1/4, and they'd have been back at it
in 5 or 6 years.....and likely have to do the "whole job" the second
or third time anyway - at a higher cost.

They had patched various spots on my road over the years, mostly around
the 2 man hole covers where the plows bust up the road, plus a few pot holes.

When a neighbor and I went to the town 2 or 3 years ago to complain,
we were told that there were no plans to do anything to our road for the
foreseeable future, as in not for many years. Maybe they would consider a
large patch to encompass a number of smaller degraded patches "next spring".
Come the following spring all they did was repatch the patches that got
damaged by the plow.

Then out of nowhere, we get a letter last August saying not to park on the
street during a specific week because they would be milling the road in
preparation for laying a new surface.

Well, that week comes and goes and we saw no action. When I called I was told
that they decided not to mill the entire street, just the ends, and then to
lay new asphalt over the old. "It wasn't as bad as we originally thought."

Sure, OK. I guess we'll see.

On 2/3/2016 3:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:39:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/29/2016 11:02 PM, Andy wrote:
My apartment owner has resurfaced the parking lot.

It is some kind of black coating that was sprayed on.

The original parking lot was made using beach sand instead of normal sand.

So, it included a lot of shells.

I noticed that the shells deteriorated much faster than sand.

It resulted in many potholes.

Will that coating really last ?

While not intending to hijack your thread, this is probably the best
place to ask:

What sort of monies ($US) are involved in "repaving" a parking lot?
And, is this expressed as some_fixed_cost + cost_per_unit_area?
Does the asphalt contractor also take on the demo and regrading?

A local organization is looking at purchasing a modest sized building
with a large parking lot -- primarily for the off-street parking
that it provides.

However, the lot is in terrible shape -- lots of deep pot holes,
torn sections of pavement, etc. One would almost think it
easier to rip up the existing asphalt, regrade it and then
lay *new* asphalt!

I've tried to point this out to the interested parties but I
suspect they are so enamored with the AMOUNT of parking space
that they are too eagerly overlooking the cost, down-the-road,
of making that space truly usable!

It would be nice to have some general idea as to whether this
is tens of thousands of dollars or *hundreds* of thousands!
Think $2-$4 per square foot for the paving, plus removal and
renovation costs. I'd suspect the hundred thousand dollar guess
would be on the low side.

I'd SWAG'ed $250K. I think there's about 30K sq ft involved (though
they could "cheap out" and leave a portion of the parking lot unpaved).
I figure the old has to be removed. The site then regraded (city code
requires all rainfall on a property to be handled *on* that property
so you can't just let it run out through the curb cuts into the street).
A gravel underlayment put in place (to keep water that would seep through
inevitable cracks to the hard-pan beneath from heaving the asphalt).
Then, paved and finally painted/signage. Of course, all the while ensuring
compliance with any *new* city codes/inspection (ADA, etc.).

When I offered my guesstimate, they dismissed it as TOTALLY RIDICULOUS:
"It *can't* cost that much just for a parking lot!"

As *I* have no skin in the game, I just shrugged and left them to their
own devices -- "I told you so" works quite well! (except for the
party hearing said comment : )