We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:49:45 -0500, George
wrote:

We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

Check into "KILZ®" - covers them all. Both water and oil base primers.

http://www.kilz.com/

| Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?
|

I wouldn't prime it at all. If it's glossy you might
want to wash it with hot solution of TSP. Then
use some joint compound to even out the peeled
areas. I usually prime if I'm doing new drywall, but
not for small areas of joint compound. You can
just spot-prime the compound spots, if necessary,
with the finish paint. (Assuming you're using water-
base paint this time.)

On 12/29/2015 11:49 AM, George wrote:
We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

*3* layers of paint? I'd be looking to sand or otherwise "fill"
some of those voids so they don't "bleed through" (texturally)
the final paint job.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

George submitted this idea :
We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

REAL plaster walls? Redwood lath? Love it!

George presented the following explanation :
We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
smooth the wall.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROBERTS-10-2...EAAOSwwE5WYpK-

| Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
| the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
| smooth the wall.
|

Are you serious? He said most of it's stuck. What
you're proposing probably means several *days* of
scraping work, then skim coating the entire wall
with joint compound after getting it hacked up.
All for no good reason. Anyone who had to do such
a thing for some reason would be better off drywalling
over it.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:40:30 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
smooth the wall.

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

Mayayana submitted this idea :
Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
smooth the wall.


Are you serious? He said most of it's stuck. What
you're proposing probably means several *days* of
scraping work, then skim coating the entire wall
with joint compound after getting it hacked up.
All for no good reason. Anyone who had to do such
a thing for some reason would be better off drywalling
over it.

I never said it would be easy. Are you afraid of a little work? ^^

Oren was thinking very hard :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:40:30 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
smooth the wall.

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:55:59 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

Mayayana submitted this idea :
Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to
smooth the wall.


Are you serious? He said most of it's stuck. What
you're proposing probably means several *days* of
scraping work, then skim coating the entire wall
with joint compound after getting it hacked up.
All for no good reason. Anyone who had to do such
a thing for some reason would be better off drywalling
over it.

I never said it would be easy. Are you afraid of a little work? ^^

OP asked about primer. Not how to do the work.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

On 2015-12-29 6:09 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

It depends on the existing paint, oil or water based, most new paints
are water based, you need a primer if switching between the two. I like
Fresh Start primer.


--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:09:49 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

I'd probably just prime the bare areas. Since the paint has peeled from
those areas. easiest thing to do is probably apply some joint compound or
spackle, then sand and prime. I've used Kilz too with good results.

| Are you serious? He said most of it's stuck. What
| you're proposing probably means several *days* of
| scraping work, then skim coating the entire wall
| with joint compound after getting it hacked up.
| All for no good reason. Anyone who had to do such
| a thing for some reason would be better off drywalling
| over it.
|
| I never said it would be easy. Are you afraid of a little work? ^^

Because a job is difficult and strenuous
that makes it useful? You're not making
any sense. It's a cruel practical joke to
suggest what you suggested. Unless you
really don't know any better. In that case
you shouldn't be giving people advice.

Mayayana was thinking very hard :
Are you serious? He said most of it's stuck. What
you're proposing probably means several *days* of
scraping work, then skim coating the entire wall
with joint compound after getting it hacked up.
All for no good reason. Anyone who had to do such
a thing for some reason would be better off drywalling
over it.

I never said it would be easy. Are you afraid of a little work? ^^

Because a job is difficult and strenuous
that makes it useful? You're not making
any sense. It's a cruel practical joke to
suggest what you suggested. Unless you
really don't know any better. In that case
you shouldn't be giving people advice.

That is how I would prepare a plaster wall. Your milage may vary.

Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and
plaster very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall
plaster, not thinwall plaster.

It happens that trader_4 formulated :
On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:09:49 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A
bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

I'd probably just prime the bare areas. Since the paint has peeled from
those areas. easiest thing to do is probably apply some joint compound or
spackle, then sand and prime. I've used Kilz too with good results.

Kilz is a good product. I used it several times on popcorn ceilings and
water stained driwall and ceilings.

On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a
wire mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the
right tools are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise
expect blood.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

| I'd probably just prime the bare areas. Since the paint has peeled from
| those areas. easiest thing to do is probably apply some joint compound
or
| spackle, then sand and prime. I've used Kilz too with good results.
|
| Kilz is a good product. I used it several times on popcorn ceilings and
| water stained driwall and ceilings.

The oil base version is pretty good for sealing,
but for compound the only reason to prime would
be to have a first coat that soaks in well, so that
the top coat sticks. Kilz is not good for that.
Sealers, by design, don't soak in well.

Hi George,

We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

We repainted my in-laws 100+ year old house a few years ago. Like you, it
had the original plaster and lath.

We used TSP to clean the accumulated grease and grime from the walls, then
patched up holes and whatnot with drywall joint compound. The plaster was
cracked and separating from the lath in places, so I drove in some drywall
screws to secure it. I added mesh drywall tape over the cracks and skim
coated over the top for a nice smooth surface.

We applied a coat of "Kilz" brand primer on the walls, then two coats of
our top coat paint.

Turned out great and still looks nice today.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

| The plaster was
| cracked and separating from the lath in places, so I drove in some drywall
| screws to secure it.

One note: There are stainless steel disks available,
usually called ceiling washers or ceiling buttons. They
get attached to lath or stud with a drywall screw
and have holes in them for plaster/compound to go
through. Putting those over loose areas works much
better than screws alone, which will often just drive
right through.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:29:08 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

George submitted this idea :
We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

REAL plaster walls? Redwood lath? Love it!

Try not to get too excited. This is kind of old-school (1920's?) skim
coat, about 1/4" thick. In the right light, the lath telegraphs
through. (We prefer not to notice.)

| REAL plaster walls? Redwood lath? Love it!
|
| Try not to get too excited. This is kind of old-school (1920's?) skim
| coat, about 1/4" thick. In the right light, the lath telegraphs
| through. (We prefer not to notice.)

I think it may depend on where one lives. I
deal with mostly horsehair plaster and lath. I
occasionally deal with plaster on concrete on
metal lath -- the stuff that came after horsehair.
That's much worse to work with. When I come
across drywall it's a treat. So much less dust
and work involved in the demo.

From the sounds of it you might want to
consider putting drywall over your walls.
(Which may be fairly easy or very involved,
depending on how you have to deal with
the trim.)

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:52:26 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
| The plaster was
| cracked and separating from the lath in places, so I drove in some drywall
| screws to secure it.

One note: There are stainless steel disks available,
usually called ceiling washers or ceiling buttons. They
get attached to lath or stud with a drywall screw
and have holes in them for plaster/compound to go
through. Putting those over loose areas works much
better than screws alone, which will often just drive
right through.

There are plastic plaster washers as well as steel.

http://www.oldhouseonline.com/patch-plaster-walls/

It seems like they have lots of names:

Ceiling buttons
Plaster buttons
Plaster washers

The plaster was cracked and separating from the lath in
places, so I drove in some drywall screws to secure it.

One note: There are stainless steel disks available,
usually called ceiling washers or ceiling buttons. They
get attached to lath or stud with a drywall screw
and have holes in them for plaster/compound to go
through. Putting those over loose areas works much
better than screws alone, which will often just drive
right through.

I would have opted for the washers if I had some available at the time, but
it was a last minute repair before we started painting. I had the screws
with me, so I carefully drove several around the loose areas which seemed
to snug everything up nicely. Not ideal, but it hasn't cracked or pulled
away in the last 10+ years.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

George used his keyboard to write :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:29:08 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

George submitted this idea :
We want to re-paint a room. Walls are old plaster (presumably original,
so ~90 yo), with what looks like 3 layers of paint. Based on age, the
paint is likely oil-base. Some of the paint has pealed to bare plaster;
the rest seems well-bonded. So, primer has to bond to both plaster and
old paint.

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?

Thanks

REAL plaster walls? Redwood lath? Love it!

Try not to get too excited. This is kind of old-school (1920's?) skim
coat, about 1/4" thick. In the right light, the lath telegraphs
through. (We prefer not to notice.)

Do you want to preserve the plaster or make a solid wall with as little
labor and expense possible?

FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall. Thin wall is spread over
gypsum green board with fiberglass mesh tape on all joints and inside
corners resulting in a VERY HARD plaster wall to paint over. Sometimes
pigment is added to the mud so no painting is required.
Today, most homes are driwall and spray textured.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners,
it extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in sheets,
it is all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any reno, causes
massive amounts of dust, and curse words.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On 12/29/2015 3:59 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren was thinking very hard :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:40:30 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?
Thanks

Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get the
old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to smooth the
wall.

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer,

Frenchman?

I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A bit of
work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

I'd like to learn how to do "smooth" -- folks here won't touch it;
always opting for aggressive textures (to hide their sins!). Any
pointers besides "practice, practice, practice" (joint taping)?

We're also debating ceiling treatment. Popcorn had to go -- nasty
and dirt magnet. Not particularly fond of the various "knockdown"
textures as they are common on most walls, here. Grew up with
brush swirl but I'm not sure even that would fare well, here.

Might opt for something like a slapbrush as it would be a bit more
forgiving without being as "noisey" as the knockdowns.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:57:27 AM UTC-5, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners,
it extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in sheets,
it is all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any reno, causes
massive amounts of dust, and curse words.

Ouch...I feel your pain.

I may not have been clear in my post. I have the paper covered gypsum boards
on the studs (~3/8") and then hand-layered plaster over that, to the tune
of another ~3/8". I actually like the slightly wavy surface of the plaster
walls and ceilings.

DerbyDad03 formulated the question :
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right
tools are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

The pic shows the gypsum board lath with gypsum 'hardwall' squeezing
between the joints. That's normal. Did you tape measure the width and
length of the gyp board lath? The normal size is 2'X4'X 1/2" thick for
walls, and 3/4" thick for partition firewalls between the house and
garage, or in other areas where fire is a hazard. The building codes in
your area may vary. The other interior plastering method is called
'THINWALL' and is mixed wet and spread on 4'X8'X1/2" GREENBOARD lath.
It looks very much like regular driwall board, but the paper is green
instead of grey. Fiberglass mesh 2" wide tape is either stapled to the
joints, or has a impregnated glue so there is no need for staples.
Some of the gyp board may be cut to size and that is why you see
smaller gyp board?
There is a driwall product that comes in a sac dry and you mix it with
water and hawk and trowel the material over the repair areas. You can
go up to 1" thick with this material, but you may get cracks after
drying and have to use topping compound to fill in the cracks. Yes, the
material mentioned has a 'set' time, so mix it and get it on the wall
before it sets up.
HTH

On 2015-12-30 12:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:57:27 AM UTC-5, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners,
it extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in sheets,
it is all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any reno, causes
massive amounts of dust, and curse words.

Ouch...I feel your pain.

I may not have been clear in my post. I have the paper covered gypsum boards
on the studs (~3/8") and then hand-layered plaster over that, to the tune
of another ~3/8". I actually like the slightly wavy surface of the plaster
walls and ceilings.

Mine is not all that wavy, while I hated tearing out parts of it for a
few jobs, new kitchen,bathroom and expanding the front hall closet, at
the same time it really made me admire the craftsmanship and skill that
must have been required to do it.

Any slob, including me can put up drywall, but this stuff took a lot of
skill to do. Even the lumber in my walls is actual rough cut 2x stock,
that actually measures 2 inches.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

FrozenNorth brought next idea :
On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right
tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners, it
extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in sheets, it is
all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any reno, causes massive
amounts of dust, and curse words.

Is this on exterior walls or interior? Can you post a shot of what you
are referring?

On 2015-12-30 1:02 PM, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth brought next idea :
On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years
as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and
exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and
plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall
plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is
a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the
right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a
while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or
renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners,
it extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in
sheets, it is all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any
reno, causes massive amounts of dust, and curse words.

Is this on exterior walls or interior? Can you post a shot of what you
are referring?

Interior, no shot, didn't take pictures when I was mid-destruction the
last time, and not planning to take a wall down to show you what is
behind it as then I would have to fix it, and deal with my wife. "Well
honey, some guy on the internet wanted me to destroy a wall so I could
take a picture for him." :-)

I assume it was the next step up after the wood lathe of old, getting
the wire mesh lathe installed was probably less labour intensive than
all the wooden strips.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

Don Y formulated the question :
On 12/29/2015 3:59 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren was thinking very hard :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:40:30 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

Question: is there a preferrable primer to use? Or ones to avoid?
Thanks

Try scraping off the paint and use a stone or metal wall scraper to get
the
old paint off, then use driwall topping compound and a trowel to smooth
the
wall.

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer,

Frenchman?

Lakota.

I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior. A bit of
work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

I'd like to learn how to do "smooth" -- folks here won't touch it;
always opting for aggressive textures (to hide their sins!). Any
pointers besides "practice, practice, practice" (joint taping)?

I like smoooth as well!
Start with a fairly smooth wall and use a hawk and Trowel to spread the
driwall topping compound on the work area. Smooth the area with the
trowel, and if needed, wet the trowel face and keep smoothing the work
area till you are a happy camper.

We're also debating ceiling treatment. Popcorn had to go -- nasty
and dirt magnet. Not particularly fond of the various "knockdown"
textures as they are common on most walls, here. Grew up with
brush swirl but I'm not sure even that would fare well, here.

Might opt for something like a slapbrush as it would be a bit more
forgiving without being as "noisey" as the knockdowns.

Scrape off the popcorn, it will be messy so cover everything with thin
sheet plastic first so you can fold the mess into the sheet plastic and
dump it. Use driwall topping to 'fix' any divits and holes. Use Kilz to
seal the lid and spread topping smooth, or do a 'skip trowel' method of
texuring. There are several types of texturing walls and lids, so
consult a driwall pro, or better yet, a journeyman plasterer in your
area. [What state are you in?]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 1:00:49 PM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
DerbyDad03 formulated the question :
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the right
tools are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

The pic shows the gypsum board lath with gypsum 'hardwall' squeezing
between the joints. That's normal. Did you tape measure the width and
length of the gyp board lath? The normal size is 2'X4'X 1/2" thick for
walls, and 3/4" thick for partition firewalls between the house and
garage, or in other areas where fire is a hazard.

I never put a tape to the gypsum board lath, but I have torn out a few walls.

I'm trying to think of a place where I can see the back of a wall, perhaps
in the plumbing access area for the shower. The wall that I might be able
to see will be the back of a bedroom wall, extending into the closet. I'll
take a look when I get home. I'm just about 100% sure that the lath is not
2' wide, but we'll see.

As far as I recall, all original walls, internal and ex, are 3/4" thick.


The building codes in
your area may vary. The other interior plastering method is called
'THINWALL' and is mixed wet and spread on 4'X8'X1/2" GREENBOARD lath.
It looks very much like regular driwall board, but the paper is green
instead of grey.

The paper on my lath board is more brown than grey, leaning towards the
brown color of paper grocery bags.

Fiberglass mesh 2" wide tape is either stapled to the
joints, or has a impregnated glue so there is no need for staples.
Some of the gyp board may be cut to size and that is why you see
smaller gyp board?

I don't think so, but I'll check tonight, if I can.

There is a driwall product that comes in a sac dry and you mix it with
water and hawk and trowel the material over the repair areas. You can
go up to 1" thick with this material, but you may get cracks after
drying and have to use topping compound to fill in the cracks. Yes, the
material mentioned has a 'set' time, so mix it and get it on the wall
before it sets up.
HTH

I may have a scrap of wall that I cut out and saved as a reminder. If I
can find it, I'll take a picture.

On 12/30/2015 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
....

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

"Plaster lath" system...

www.tsib.org/pdf/technical/70-101-Gypsum-Lath-Behind-Gypsum-Plaster.pdf

We used it quite a lot doing reno's of the old Federal-era mansions in
Lynchburg, VA, back when a young pup and were refurb'ing many of these
with friends moving in just out of school. They had been converted to
rooms and terribly cut up an all, but one could get a whole lot of house
for almost nothing as compared to new construction if one was willing to
do the necessary refurbishing. We as a group of new hires (roughly 1000
over about three years) basically did a major revitalization of a
significant area in older part of Lynchburg.

There were about a half-dozen of us who made the renovation business a
sideline occupation serving the purpose. I mostly concentrated on the
interior architectural woodwork but these systems were used extensively
as opposed to original lath and plaster as faster and cheaper but still
able to match surface thicknesses and such that were extremely variable
in those old houses.

They were 16" systems then as the above mentions; I never ran into
anything narrower than that; I suppose there were likely local
manufacturers as well with other products.

--

FrozenNorth brought next idea :
On 2015-12-30 1:02 PM, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth brought next idea :
On 2015-12-30 11:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 11:00:30 AM UTC-5, Eagle wrote:
FrozenNorth pretended :
On 2015-12-29 6:48 PM, Eagle wrote:
Oren wrote on 12/29/2015 :
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:59:28 -0800, "Eagle"
wrote:

The question is about paint primers. Don't let facts interfere.

I don't believe in painting over primed plaster. After 30+ years
as a
plasterer, I avoid priming plaster walls, both interior and
exterior.
A bit of work and you avoid old paint lifting after priming.

Good for you. Primers do help and paint adheres and looked just
wonderful. I'd even prime a 90 year old pastier wall.
Would you save the plaster?

If it were savable, yes. You don't see original redwood lath and
plaster
very often. If it's crumbly and falling off, no.
There are other types of plaster and I'm assuming it's hardwall
plaster,
not thinwall plaster.

Try the crap in my house, renovations are a pain in the ass, it is
a wire
mesh lath with the plaster over the top of that. Gloves and the
right tools
are a key for the parts of it I have redone, otherwise expect blood.

I worked in California, so there are no basements to speak of, and most
of the interior plaster walls are 2'X4' 1/2" wall board with metal mesh
used in inside corners and fiberglass tape on joints. Gypsum plaster is
spread over that lath and when cured and dry, "puttycoat" is spread
over the gypsum resulting in a very hard wall.

I have very similar walls in my 1956-era house in the northeast US. The
"2'X4' 1/2" wall board" that you mention is gypsum board, laid
perpendicular to the studs (i.e. horizontal).

The insides of the walls look similar to this, although my gypsum boards
are 6" (8"?) wide, not 2'. I'm not sure about the length. It's been a
while
since I tore any walls down, so the exact width and length of the gypsum
board has been forgotten, but I'm confident that it is not 2', not even
1' wide.

http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/P...Board31DFs.jpg

My walls measure about 3/4" thick. The metal mesh in the corners and
at the ceiling junctions make certain types of repairs and/or
renovations
a real PITA. Patches in the open field need to be shimmed out to become
flush with the rest of the wall/ceiling.

My house was built in 1952, the wire lathe is not just in the corners,
it extends floor to ceiling, wall to wall, the plaster is not in
sheets, it is all built up in several layers and hand applied. Any
reno, causes massive amounts of dust, and curse words.

Is this on exterior walls or interior? Can you post a shot of what you
are referring?

Interior, no shot, didn't take pictures when I was mid-destruction the last
time, and not planning to take a wall down to show you what is behind it as
then I would have to fix it, and deal with my wife. "Well honey, some guy on
the internet wanted me to destroy a wall so I could take a picture for him."
:-)

Aw why not... lol

I assume it was the next step up after the wood lathe of old, getting the
wire mesh lathe installed was probably less labour intensive than all the
wooden strips.

In your area, I don't know what the norm is for plastered interiors.
Using metal mesh lath is usually done on comercial projects and screwed
onto metal studs. here in Calif. Redwood lath is no longer used, only
gyp board and metal mesh sheets and screws.
There were a few tracts of homes built here in Temecula that use metal
stud framing. I saw this going on while driving up I-15 and had to stop
and check it out. After chatting with the Sup, I found out it was an
experiment to see what the cost would be between wood framing and beer
can stud framing. I never got a financial study, so I guess I should
ask the sub contractor and builder what the cost comparison was.