Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Bill

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Are you the same poster who was using food coloring to indicate a
leak? If you are, why no mention of it this time?
Maybe you're just losing it to evaporation.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Check that bowl refill tube has airgap above water full level to prevent
siphon.
If this is ok, you may have a leak in the flush valve tank assembly seal
where it leaves the tank.
Dye in tank will not show a bowl refill tube siphon but will show a
flush valve assembly leak.
HTH
--
Mr.E

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 10:29:49 -0500, Mr.E wrote:

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Check that bowl refill tube has airgap above water full level to prevent
siphon.
If this is ok, you may have a leak in the flush valve tank assembly seal
where it leaves the tank.
Dye in tank will not show a bowl refill tube siphon but will show a
flush valve assembly leak.
HTH
Should have said "will not always show" but some type valves do show dye
on a drip siphon.
--
Mr.E

Mr.E wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Check that bowl refill tube has airgap above water full level to prevent
siphon.
If this is ok, you may have a leak in the flush valve tank assembly seal
where it leaves the tank.
Dye in tank will not show a bowl refill tube siphon but will show a
flush valve assembly leak.
HTH

Could catch the moment water is leaking? Exercise(test) all moving parts
after emptying the tank?

Mr.E wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Check that bowl refill tube has airgap above water full level to prevent
siphon.
If this is ok, you may have a leak in the flush valve tank assembly seal
where it leaves the tank.
Dye in tank will not show a bowl refill tube siphon but will show a
flush valve assembly leak.
HTH

That tube problem got me.

Greg

Call a plumber and get the job done right, doofus.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Bill

I'm beginning to wonder if the tank has a hairline crack near the tank
gasket?

On 12/20/2015 9:17 AM, Oren wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if the tank has a hairline crack near the tank
gasket?


Oren knows about hairline cracks, having ****ed all those mothers.
LOL

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:53:08 -0500, Bill Baxter
wrote:

Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!

Bill
You might want to start over with OEM parts and the factory setup. I
had a kohler one piece that was never right until I put all kohler
parts in it and had a tech tell me how many links on the chain you had
to hook

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:33:39 -0500, wrote:

You might want to start over with OEM parts and the factory setup. I
had a kohler one piece that was never right until I put all kohler
parts in it and had a tech tell me how many links on the chain you had
to hook

After reading this thread, I think before the OP wastes yet more money
on parts, it's time to CALL A PLUMBER!

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 16:50:11 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:33:39 -0500, wrote:

You might want to start over with OEM parts and the factory setup. I
had a kohler one piece that was never right until I put all kohler
parts in it and had a tech tell me how many links on the chain you had
to hook

After reading this thread, I think before the OP wastes yet more money
on parts, it's time to CALL A PLUMBER!


Why a plumber? The **** is going down the pipe and the water is coming
to fill the tank.
He needs tech rep who knows about that toilet ... and he is probably
on line.

On 12/20/2015 6:05 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 16:50:11 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:33:39 -0500, wrote:

You might want to start over with OEM parts and the factory setup. I
had a kohler one piece that was never right until I put all kohler
parts in it and had a tech tell me how many links on the chain you had
to hook

After reading this thread, I think before the OP wastes yet more money
on parts, it's time to CALL A PLUMBER!


Why a plumber? The **** is going down the pipe and the water is coming
to fill the tank.
He needs tech rep who knows about that toilet ... and he is probably
on line.


May be time for a new toilet it it is older. Comfort height is nice.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:10:45 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


May be time for a new toilet it it is older. Comfort height is nice.

I had a toilet that was a constant problem. Not only flushing issues,
but it seemed to back up far too often and no amount of snaking it would
help. One day I decided I had enough, and bought a new toilet. Problem
solved!

Toilets are not complicated like cars or electronics, but some of them
seem to just "wear out" over time, and no matter how many parts are
replaced they remain a pain in the ass. Life is too short to waste hours
screwing with a bad toilet, when a new toilet is not all the costly.
From what the OP said, he probably already spent half the cost of a new
toilet on flappers and other parts, and that dont include his time....

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:10:45 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Why a plumber? The **** is going down the pipe and the water is coming
to fill the tank.
He needs tech rep who knows about that toilet ... and he is probably
on line.


May be time for a new toilet it it is older. Comfort height is nice.

My bet is this is a "new" toilet. At least since the government
started mandating standards

On 12/20/2015 7:53 AM, Bill Baxter wrote:
Ok, this one is getting to be a real pita! Have been at it for 3 weeks.
Started getting occasional running of commode a month ago, presumably
due to leaky flapper. Replaced flapper, still running, so replaced both
fill and flush valves. For fill, went with Fluidmaster plastic; for
flush a Douglas brass valve. I decided at the time to try using the
ball and rods for flush valve seal instead of flapper. In one case, I
was able to get a fairly good seal, but the darned rod would want to
stick sometimes after flushing and wouldn't seal the valve. Tried
readjusting alignment of rod, but still would occasionally stick. So,
getting fed up yesterday, I decided to go with a Korky flapper of the
kind that slides down over the brass overflow tube.

Despite all efforts, which has included so far, continual adjusting and
readjusting of ball alignment, a "reseating" kit for the flush valve,
and now switching to a Korky flapper, I am still seeing about 1/2 inch
of water loss over an 8 hour period. This isn't enough to trigger the
fill valve, but if I went away for a day it certainly would be.

I'd appreciate any ideas at this point. I'm about pulling my hair out
on this one. The best seal I seemed to have was with the ball seal but
I couldn't get the rod to stop sticking going down sometimes. I even
added more weight to the rod and readjusted the rod guide, but to no
avail. I would have thought going back to the traditional flapper would
have solved all of this, but it hasn't.

Any ideas would be welcome. I never thought I'd have this much trouble
getting a proper seal at the flush valve seat!


I'm by no means good at fixing anything like this, but my husband talks
about similar issues a lot and has fixed similar issues.

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?


--
Maggie

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?

The OP has already replaced parts that would be "pitted". Something
else is going on. He hasn't addressed a "possible" hairline crack in
the tank or bowl, at the gasket.

On 12/21/2015 1:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?

The OP has already replaced parts that would be "pitted". Something
else is going on. He hasn't addressed a "possible" hairline crack in
the tank or bowl, at the gasket.


ahh I was trying to describe the seal/gasket area that goes from the
tank to the bowl, but just didn't remember what it was called. I wasn't
thinking of a crack like you were... but more like a tiny pitted area there.

--
Maggie

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 16:31:19 -0600, Muggles wrote:

On 12/21/2015 1:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?

The OP has already replaced parts that would be "pitted". Something
else is going on. He hasn't addressed a "possible" hairline crack in
the tank or bowl, at the gasket.


ahh I was trying to describe the seal/gasket area that goes from the
tank to the bowl, but just didn't remember what it was called. I wasn't
thinking of a crack like you were... but more like a tiny pitted area there.

Some things are just not immediately obvious.

"Throw it against the wall and soon something will stick"

On 12/21/2015 4:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 16:31:19 -0600, Muggles wrote:

On 12/21/2015 1:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?

The OP has already replaced parts that would be "pitted". Something
else is going on. He hasn't addressed a "possible" hairline crack in
the tank or bowl, at the gasket.


ahh I was trying to describe the seal/gasket area that goes from the
tank to the bowl, but just didn't remember what it was called. I wasn't
thinking of a crack like you were... but more like a tiny pitted area there.

Some things are just not immediately obvious.

"Throw it against the wall and soon something will stick"


"Toss it in the air and see if it flies".

--
Maggie

On 12/21/2015 05:31 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 12/21/2015 1:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?


I actually thought about doing that, using some of that underwater stick
epoxy some time back when I was also considering a reseating gasket, but
I went with the Korky reseating kit that includes gasket and silicone.

Well, what I finally ended up doing I did today: I went with a
flapperless system:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...uctId=29001096

This was a tight fit in my older toilet, but I'm hopeful that it finally
solves the problem. Installation today and then leaving the water off
for 6 hours showed just a slight decrease in tank water, less than
anything else tried. It may be evaporation at this level. Not sure how
much escapes due to evaporation. I have a 10 gal fish tank and I
usually have to add like 1/2 gallon of water every couple of weeks due
to evaporation, so the small amount of drop I'm seeing now may just be
from that.

Only time will tell if the device holds up. I did add the hose clamp
securing it to the overflow tube, as customer reviews suggested, and I
was able to get the silicone seal it has quite tight up against the
existing seat. I could then start filling the tank just past this seal
to check for leaks and I didn't see any, so then pushed and turned the
top section into place. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Bill



The OP has already replaced parts that would be "pitted". Something
else is going on. He hasn't addressed a "possible" hairline crack in
the tank or bowl, at the gasket.


ahh I was trying to describe the seal/gasket area that goes from the
tank to the bowl, but just didn't remember what it was called. I wasn't
thinking of a crack like you were... but more like a tiny pitted area there.

On 12/21/2015 9:27 PM, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 12/21/2015 05:31 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 12/21/2015 1:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:18:55 -0600, Muggles wrote:

My first and only idea is the area where your trying to get the seal is
slightly pitted somewhere, and won't seal because of where it's pitted.
Maybe it can be sanded down where the seal is supposed to be at? Is
that possible to do? Like someone would put a bondo on a car and sand
it down to smooth it out, put some material around the hole, let it
dry,
sand it down and then it might make a seal?


I actually thought about doing that, using some of that underwater stick
epoxy some time back when I was also considering a reseating gasket, but
I went with the Korky reseating kit that includes gasket and silicone.

Well, what I finally ended up doing I did today: I went with a
flapperless system:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...uctId=29001096

This was a tight fit in my older toilet, but I'm hopeful that it finally
solves the problem. Installation today and then leaving the water off
for 6 hours showed just a slight decrease in tank water, less than
anything else tried. It may be evaporation at this level. Not sure how
much escapes due to evaporation. I have a 10 gal fish tank and I
usually have to add like 1/2 gallon of water every couple of weeks due
to evaporation, so the small amount of drop I'm seeing now may just be
from that.

Only time will tell if the device holds up. I did add the hose clamp
securing it to the overflow tube, as customer reviews suggested, and I
was able to get the silicone seal it has quite tight up against the
existing seat. I could then start filling the tank just past this seal
to check for leaks and I didn't see any, so then pushed and turned the
top section into place. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed! X X
--
Maggie