A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.


Based on what you write, the repair people were totally
up front and honest. The customer was totally agreeable,
and approved the whole thing. Customer needs to pay for
what customer asked, agreed, and signed off.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:12:29 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.


Based on what you write, the repair people were totally
up front and honest. The customer was totally agreeable,
and approved the whole thing. Customer needs to pay for
what customer asked, agreed, and signed off.

It seemed that way to me too. I should have included that she won.

She said that she used to work in finance, but she gave that up and
customers are a lot more appreciative than her boss ever was. (plus
I'm sure she makes more money, although having one's own business is
always a risk. Her father was in the stove repair business and after
he died, she quit her job, re-opened his business, learned how to do
the parts she didn't know, and has trained 3 other guys, she says.

She says her renovated stoves may last another 30 years. I would say
60!

On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.



But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there.

Hey, I'm from 1945 and yes, some think I'm an antique.
So, what was the outcome? Seems like they should be able to get the
money as they did the work. Customer sounds like an asshole though, bad
case of buyer's remorse. Could have bought a new stove for that money.

Sounds a bit high though. Travel time and one hour is $410m so, WTF did
they do for the other $390?

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:55:25 AM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

The big mistake was not getting an agreed to price for the conversion
upfront. It's not like it's an unknown problem where the service person
doesn't know what's required. The bill was $800 with $320 of it for
travel time. That leaves $480 for the propane conversion. Unless
something unusual was required, that sounds like a lot of money to me.
The kit he was referring to would likely be from the manufacturer
and might include new orifices, knobs, pressure regulator, hose, etc.
Without knowing what was actually done, what parts were supplied, no
way to know what a fair charge would be. But if you're dumb enough
not to figure it out before, it's easy to get hosed.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:37:12 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.



But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there.

Hey, I'm from 1945 and yes, some think I'm an antique.
So, what was the outcome? Seems like they should be able to get the

She won. She brought all three of her employees to "court", even
though only one was there. That compares to a lot of bosses who don't
bring any employees, even the one who was the only one to talk to the
customer. (Then there are all those people who don't have pictures
or texts because, they say, they lost or broke the phone, or just got
a new one. Apparently they just make that excuse up or no one thinks
to transfer photos and texts from one phone to the next.)

money as they did the work. Customer sounds like an asshole though, bad
case of buyer's remorse. Could have bought a new stove for that money.

Sounds a bit high though. Travel time and one hour is $410m so, WTF did
they do for the other $390?

Good question. Most cases take 20 minutes minus maybe 4 minutes for
advertising, to show, but they're longer than that before editing.

In their renovation, I think a lot of what they do is clean. Maybe
they cleaned?

They also paint, but I'm sure they didn't paint. ;-)

This page has pictures of a bunch of the stoves they did. Skip past
the moving part at the top. There was a better page with more stoves
but I can't find it again.
http://www.belgroveappliance.com/testimonials.php


The web page also cites www.stovelist.com an unrelated page that has
parts for stoves and whole stoves.

On 12/19/2015 11:01 AM, Micky wrote:


This page has pictures of a bunch of the stoves they did. Skip past
the moving part at the top. There was a better page with more stoves
but I can't find it again.
http://www.belgroveappliance.com/testimonials.php


The web page also cites www.stovelist.com an unrelated page that has
parts for stoves and whole stoves.


The old stove really look sharp! I can see restoring some of them.
Ovens may not have the controls, but a good burner just makes a flame
and gets things hot. Not a lot of fancy technology needed to fry and egg.

"Micky" wrote in message news
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

If I was judge I would have add couple hours to original bill,
that was totally ridicules' you sign contract work is done
people like that deserve fine not just paying bill, I know that
first handed, some people are total "MORONS"

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 10:38:23 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:55:25 AM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

It was about repairs to an "antique stove". A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it. He was wearing a tie and I
think she had on a dress. . I like antique machinery so I was esp.
interested. It turned out the so-called antique was from 1965. For
me that's just a stove, and a pretty modern one, since our firrst gas
stove was from 1945, and other than a timer, I don't see much
difference, between 1945 and now.

But he wanted it changed from natural gas to propane, and apparently
there is only one company in 5 states that concentrated on stuff like
this. (I thought she said 5 states but her webpage only says she
does business in 3 states. I guess both could be true, if there's no
one to do this in the other two states!)

He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there. Then he keeps saying that
he thought she woudl use a kit, but she didn't. He calls his wife
and she says not to go through with it (though she may not know about
the 410 he already owes). The stove lady tells him, in his words,
that she can't take responsibility for the repair unless she does the
whole thing***, and he says that meant he was scared and forced into
having her do it. ***Well, duh.

I"m not sure what all she did, probably cleaned it, and surely
replaced 3? 5 jets for a 4 burner/1 oven stove. What kit did the guy
want her to use? Something they sell online I think, with jets and a
brush?? And other things she already owns?

She writes up an invoice that totals 800, he signs it and gives her a
check, she uses her phone to take video of the invoice and his check
and of his saying "good job", then she goes back home and straight to
the bank, since they have the same bank, and checks if payment is
good, and by then, 2 hours later, it's already been stopped.

Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

The big mistake was not getting an agreed to price for the conversion
upfront. It's not like it's an unknown problem where the service person
doesn't know what's required. The bill was $800 with $320 of it for
travel time. That leaves $480 for the propane conversion. Unless
something unusual was required, that sounds like a lot of money to me.
The kit he was referring to would likely be from the manufacturer
and might include new orifices, knobs, pressure regulator, hose, etc.
Without knowing what was actually done, what parts were supplied, no
way to know what a fair charge would be. But if you're dumb enough
not to figure it out before, it's easy to get hosed.

Another way of looking at it would be that a big factor was the 4 hours
of travel time. If you had some local guy come over and it's just a
$100 min charge, you could take the risk that after he shows up, if you
can't agree to a price, you're only out $100. But in this case the
min charge was $410. To agree to that, with no way to control the final
price, was just nuts. At that point, the service guy has you at a
serious disadvantage, can jack up the remaining price and you're damned
if you do and damned if you don't. Hard to imagine that he couldn't
have found a local service guy. Gas stoves aren't that special.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there.

Hey, I'm from 1945 and yes, some think I'm an antique.
So, what was the outcome? Seems like they should be able to get the money
as they did the work. Customer sounds like an asshole though, bad case of
buyer's remorse. Could have bought a new stove for that money.

Sounds a bit high though. Travel time and one hour is $410m so, WTF did
they do for the other $390?

Sounds bad it would take 2 people, but that was what was agreed on. The
extra money sounds sort of like the way I got ripped off this summer.

The heat pump quit and I called a place and they said it would be $ 90 to
come out. That was fine and the fellow was here for about 10 minuits or
less and said a capacitor was bad. Then he said that capacitor was $ 340
for it and to install it, the companies standard charge for that. As it was
an outside unit and it takes all of 5 minuits to install a $ 50 part ( the
most at retail it should cost and about $ 15 on line) I thought it was a
ripoff, but paid anyway. While he was here, he talked me into a cleaning
job for $ 100 which seemed reasonable to me and I learned a lot while he
was doing it.

This is not a high dollar area as many jobs pay from $ 10 to $ 20 an hour
with $ 20 being on the high end. Most are $ 15 or less.

On 12/19/2015 07:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it.

Amazingly, Google translated that without even blinking. They must have
an algorithm based on adjacent keys to construct a match.

On 12/19/2015 11:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 10:38:23 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:55:25 AM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A case on the people's court TV show was interesting.

[snip]

The big mistake was not getting an agreed to price for the conversion
upfront. It's not like it's an unknown problem where the service person
doesn't know what's required. The bill was $800 with $320 of it for
travel time. That leaves $480 for the propane conversion. Unless
something unusual was required, that sounds like a lot of money to me.
The kit he was referring to would likely be from the manufacturer
and might include new orifices, knobs, pressure regulator, hose, etc.
Without knowing what was actually done, what parts were supplied, no
way to know what a fair charge would be. But if you're dumb enough
not to figure it out before, it's easy to get hosed.

Another way of looking at it would be that a big factor was the 4 hours
of travel time. If you had some local guy come over and it's just a
$100 min charge, you could take the risk that after he shows up, if you
can't agree to a price, you're only out $100. But in this case the
min charge was $410. To agree to that, with no way to control the final
price, was just nuts. At that point, the service guy has you at a
serious disadvantage, can jack up the remaining price and you're damned
if you do and damned if you don't. Hard to imagine that he couldn't
have found a local service guy. Gas stoves aren't that special.

We're not fully apprised of what actually went on here. What Micky saw,
what Micky remembers, only provide a partial set of facts. I'm sure
that Micky would agree.

However, based upon what we HAVE heard, I agree that there could be some
questions about the mental competency or integrity of the customer. It
matters not if there are fifteen qualified tradesman locally who could
do the job for $100. The customer hired the gal from over the hill and
far away for whatever reason. Is that her fault? He knew the expense
going in for travel and, I suspect he knew more than there would be a
$90 minimum charge once on site. There must have been some sort of
estimate provided based upon what he told her he had. He should never
have agreed to bring her out knowing he's have to cough up the travel
money and $90 without knowing more (again, I suspect that he did but we
haven't heard about it), but again, he did. It's all on him.

If she has a good reputation and following, that may be the sole reason
he hired her. From what we've seen she did what she was hired to do and
did it to his satisfaction. If SWMBO is upset, that's HIS problem, not
the tradesman's.

rbowman wrote:
"On 12/19/2015 07:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it.

Amazingly, Google translated that without even blinking. They must have
an algorithm based on adjacent keys to construct a match. "

Hard for some to find the home keys - especially
on these newfangled tablets and phewns(!)

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:38:32 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 12/19/2015 9:55 AM, Micky wrote:
He lives two hours from her shop. She tells him on the phone that
it's $80 / hour travel time (for two people) x 4 hours = 320 dollars
right off the bat, and $90 minimum when she's there, but for some
reason he has doubts AFTER she gets there.

Hey, I'm from 1945 and yes, some think I'm an antique.
So, what was the outcome? Seems like they should be able to get the money
as they did the work. Customer sounds like an asshole though, bad case of
buyer's remorse. Could have bought a new stove for that money.

Sounds a bit high though. Travel time and one hour is $410m so, WTF did
they do for the other $390?

Sounds bad it would take 2 people, but that was what was agreed on. The
extra money sounds sort of like the way I got ripped off this summer.

The heat pump quit and I called a place and they said it would be $ 90 to
come out. That was fine and the fellow was here for about 10 minuits or
less and said a capacitor was bad. Then he said that capacitor was $ 340
for it and to install it, the companies standard charge for that. As it was

I was in a similar situation when I was 18 y.o. I'd been in college,
out of town, for 4 months when the clock radio started humming. It
was about 6 years old. Made in 1958, tubes of course. (Telechron
clock iirc.)

I took it to the only guy I knew of, even in bicycle range. He
wanted 10 dollars for the part and 10 dollars for labor, in 1964. What
would that be in today's money, $100 at least.

I was totally sincere and naive when I asked if I could buy the part
from him and install it myself (since I could solder). He got angry,
I think he complained about college boys, I think he slammed his hand
on the counter, and I scurried out of there. Home a while later, I
had a car and found a store that actually had self-service capacitors,
two stage, for about a dollar. I didn't know it was the capacitor
until he used the word. So I did better than you but only because I
really didn't have $20 AND he got angry. Maybe if he'd just calmly
said No, I won't sell you the part, I would have found the money to
pay him.


an outside unit and it takes all of 5 minuits to install a $ 50 part ( the
most at retail it should cost and about $ 15 on line) I thought it was a
ripoff, but paid anyway. While he was here, he talked me into a cleaning
job for $ 100 which seemed reasonable to me and I learned a lot while he
was doing it.

This is not a high dollar area as many jobs pay from $ 10 to $ 20 an hour
with $ 20 being on the high end. Most are $ 15 or less.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 09:43:31 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:


Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

If I was judge I would have add couple hours to original bill,

They never do this. Apparently the law doesn't cover it. I got the
feeling she was making a day of it, bringing all 3 employees, instead
of just the one who was there. Probably going to take them out for
lunch in Times Square (Sardi's or more likely Nathan's or the Stage
Deli.) and then do something in the afternoon. She probably spent
100's on the train and lunch and whatever they did next.

You can possbily get punitive damages in cases of fraud, oppression,
or malice. But being a cheapskate is not malice.

that was totally ridicules' you sign contract work is done
people like that deserve fine not just paying bill, I know that
first handed, some people are total "MORONS"

True.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:23:56 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

We're not fully apprised of what actually went on here. What Micky saw,
what Micky remembers, only provide a partial set of facts. I'm sure
that Micky would agree.

+11

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 7:00:18 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 09:43:31 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:


Westchester County has some lower middle-income and middle
middle-income areas, but all in all it's one of the richest counties
in the country. No wonder she's expensive. Get a price before you
let someone come out.

If I was judge I would have add couple hours to original bill,

They never do this. Apparently the law doesn't cover it. I got the
feeling she was making a day of it, bringing all 3 employees, instead
of just the one who was there. Probably going to take them out for
lunch in Times Square (Sardi's or more likely Nathan's or the Stage
Deli.) and then do something in the afternoon. She probably spent
100's on the train and lunch and whatever they did next.


It wouldn't be Stage Deli, they closed a couple years ago. I guess even
at $25 for a sandwich it's tough to make a buck in NYC.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:41:55 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
"On 12/19/2015 07:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it.

Amazingly, Google translated that without even blinking.

What do you mean translated? It still says nuddke.

Did you read it in Google separately?

They must have
an algorithm based on adjacent keys to construct a match. "

Hard for some to find the home keys - especially
on these newfangled tablets and phewns(!)

OGEWB {JEWM Phewns?

Actually, I have a regular desktop keyboard, but I added that word
later, in the middle of the sentence, that is, the nuddke of the
sentence.

On 12/19/2015 5:54 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 12/19/2015 07:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it.

Amazingly, Google translated that without even blinking. They must have
an algorithm based on adjacent keys to construct a match.


Did you bring some clothes for the nuddke,
aged couple?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/19/2015 04:41 PM, wrote:
Hard for some to find the home keys - especially
on these newfangled tablets and phewns(!)

When it comes to tablets, I'm all thumbs and not in a good way. They're
read only devices as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not a touch typist and I've done the same thing as Micky -- happily
typed away in my five or six finger style and be offset one key to the
left or right.

On 12/19/2015 05:36 PM, Micky wrote:
Actually, I have a regular desktop keyboard, but I added that word
later, in the middle of the sentence, that is, the nuddke of the
sentence.

What threw me momentarily was thinking it was a Yiddishism like nudnik.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:29:18 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/19/2015 04:41 PM, wrote:
Hard for some to find the home keys - especially
on these newfangled tablets and phewns(!)

When it comes to tablets, I'm all thumbs and not in a good way. They're
read only devices as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not a touch typist and I've done the same thing as Micky -- happily
typed away in my five or six finger style and be offset one key to the
left or right.

I AM a touch typist and pretty good too**, but I see this Dell
keyboard doesn't have the inverted dimples on keys G and H, likek it's
supposed to.

**6 errors per minute.

On 12/19/2015 09:22 PM, Micky wrote:
I AM a touch typist and pretty good too**, but I see this Dell
keyboard doesn't have the inverted dimples on keys G and H, likek it's
supposed to.

**6 errors per minute.

I get about six errors a minute. Unfortunately I also only type about
six words per minute.

When I was in high school only the business kids took typing. Nobody
ever thought engineers would have anything to do with a typewriter;
that's what the secretaries are for. My brother was older enough that it
worked in his career, but it didn't in mine.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 23:54:13 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/19/2015 09:22 PM, Micky wrote:
I AM a touch typist and pretty good too**, but I see this Dell
keyboard doesn't have the inverted dimples on keys G and H, likek it's
supposed to.

**6 errors per minute.

I get about six errors a minute. Unfortunately I also only type about
six words per minute.

When I was in high school only the business kids took typing. Nobody

I wasn't an engineer in high school. Or a business kid. I went to
probably the richest public school in Indiana, I think 80% went to
college, but they also taught typing. I think I took it in summer
school.

I had watched my mother type my brother's papers in college -- he's 7
years older -- and maybe med school, and I didn't want to depend on
someone else. But I agree that it surprised me when I typed for a
living, as a computer programmer.

I make a lot of errors when I play the piano, too.

ever thought engineers would have anything to do with a typewriter;
that's what the secretaries are for. My brother was older enough that it
worked in his career, but it didn't in mine.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...

When I was in high school only the business kids took typing. Nobody ever
thought engineers would have anything to do with a typewriter; that's what
the secretaries are for. My brother was older enough that it worked in his
career, but it didn't in mine.


In the 8 th grade about 1964 most everyone had to take a semester of typing.
The room had a lot of typewriters and the keys did not have any leters or
numbers on them so we had to learn to touch type. My mother had a typewriter
just like them but had the leters on the keys. I used it some to type up
papers.

It did help some when in college I had to take a semester of computer
programing in PL/1 which was sort of like the BASIC programming. Just
enough to learn what computer programming was about.

Move up to about 3 years before the computers came out (the old Radio Shack
and Apples) I started playing around with some ham radio that used the
Teletype machines. The typing started to come back to me. Then enter the
computers and a slightly different keyboards . Letters are in the same
place, but have to look for some of the symbles.

On 12/20/2015 04:30 AM, Micky wrote:
I had watched my mother type my brother's papers in college -- he's 7
years older -- and maybe med school, and I didn't want to depend on
someone else. But I agree that it surprised me when I typed for a
living, as a computer programmer.

I did a seque into programming as the world changed but I started out in
the machine tool industry. There was drafting involved, mostly
schematics and panel layouts, but no typing. More likely you would find
me with a screwdriver and a Simpson debugging a control circuit.

I found I enjoyed programming, which I did not in my college days when
it was FORTRAN IV and System 360's. Still, by the last '80s I was
starting to wonder if a man really should make a living in front of a
glorified typewriter. I sort of retired/dropped out and spent the next
ten years doing more physical work. Then I wandered back into the field.
I've enjoyed it, which is why I'm still doing it.

Of all the programmers in my group I think there are a couple who can
actually type by any accepted definition of typing.

On 12/20/2015 08:07 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In the 8 th grade about 1964 most everyone had to take a semester of typing.
The room had a lot of typewriters and the keys did not have any leters or
numbers on them so we had to learn to touch type. My mother had a typewriter
just like them but had the leters on the keys. I used it some to type up
papers.

There wasn't a typewriter in sight in my 8th grade in 1960. I can't
remember when my parents bought a typewriter for me but it was an
inexpensive, manual portable job and a joy to use.

It did help some when in college I had to take a semester of computer
programing in PL/1 which was sort of like the BASIC programming. Just
enough to learn what computer programming was about.

My college programming courses were FORTRAN IV and the closest we got to
a typewriter was a keypunch. The theory was you did your programming on
a coding form and then went over to the computer center to punch it in.
In the real (paying job) world it was expected you would give the form
to a keypunch operator.


Move up to about 3 years before the computers came out (the old Radio Shack
and Apples) I started playing around with some ham radio that used the
Teletype machines. The typing started to come back to me. Then enter the
computers and a slightly different keyboards . Letters are in the same
place, but have to look for some of the symbles.

iirc, the early Apples were lacking a key that was sort of important to
a C programmer so you had to fudge it with key mappings. I never had an
Apple but I remember a friend whining about it.

The keys still migrate. I was at the library today and had to hunt
around for Delete. Their keyboards are neither the standard full size
with the numeric part nor the laptop condensed model.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...

My college programming courses were FORTRAN IV and the closest we got to a
typewriter was a keypunch. The theory was you did your programming on a
coding form and then went over to the computer center to punch it in. In
the real (paying job) world it was expected you would give the form to a
keypunch operator.


I was taking an electronics engineering course in college. We just had a
semester of programming. It was just enough to learn what it was. Most of
what we wrote was only about 30 to 50 lines.

We usually wrote the code by pencil and they went to the only model 33
Teletype. Punched it in and made a tape of it. Then used a dial on the 33
to call a computer somewhere off campus. Then started the paper tape and
sent the program. Later in the day we had to call up the computer and it
would print out the results.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:54:07 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/19/2015 07:55 AM, Micky wrote:
A nuddke-aged couple
bought a house and the stove came with it.

Amazingly, Google translated that without even blinking. They must have
an algorithm based on adjacent keys to construct a match.

I asked in the wrong spot. What do you mean that Google translated.
They translated it to middle? Where did it do that?

The best all around page, though no pictures on this page.

Anyone who charges prices like this is not going to be cheap on a
house call. The guy was at least 60 years old, he should know that
already.

She also does partial restoration and cleaning only.

http://www.belgroveappliance.com/faqs.php

What is the cost?
The cost for full restoration depends on the range being restored. It
may start at $3,500 for a small range, but the average starting price
is about $5,500 - 6,000 for a standard size range. Most Chambers
ranges start at $6,600 and go up from there. Roper stoves are more
expensive and cost upwards of $8,000 for full restoration. O'Keefe &
Merritt is a west coast stove but we do sell them when available and
they start at $9,000 plus the cost of the stove. Commercial ranges
usually cost more to fully restore, but most people only need a
cleaning and partial restoration on their commercial range. Note: you
can't buy a "new" commercial range for your home.


I didn't know there was such a thing as a west coast stove, since I
didnt' think there was any heavy industry west of Minnesota. I wonder
if the Beach Boys havd a song about them.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 21:01:03 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...

My college programming courses were FORTRAN IV and the closest we got to a
typewriter was a keypunch. The theory was you did your programming on a
coding form and then went over to the computer center to punch it in. In
the real (paying job) world it was expected you would give the form to a
keypunch operator.


I was taking an electronics engineering course in college. We just had a
semester of programming. It was just enough to learn what it was. Most of
what we wrote was only about 30 to 50 lines.

We usually wrote the code by pencil and they went to the only model 33
Teletype. Punched it in and made a tape of it. Then used a dial on the 33
to call a computer somewhere off campus. Then started the paper tape and
sent the program. Later in the day we had to call up the computer and it
would print out the results.

Hard to believe we all have our own now. Few of us do programming,
but we could. (I don't count setting values for 4th generation
"languages".)

Went to Cape Kennedy ~20 years ago and was told that the PC I had at
home in 1995 was as powerful as what launched the Mercury astronauts.

What I have now must be more than enough to go to the moon and back.

"Micky" wrote in message
...

Went to Cape Kennedy ~20 years ago and was told that the PC I had at
home in 1995 was as powerful as what launched the Mercury astronauts.

What I have now must be more than enough to go to the moon and back.

A smart phone is more than the moon landing computers. I think they used
some KIM 1 computers on the space craft. They had less memory than what it
would take to boot up a smart phone now.

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 9:30:55 PM UTC-6, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Micky" wrote in message
...

Went to Cape Kennedy ~20 years ago and was told that the PC I had at
home in 1995 was as powerful as what launched the Mercury astronauts.

What I have now must be more than enough to go to the moon and back.

A smart phone is more than the moon landing computers. I think they used
some KIM 1 computers on the space craft. They had less memory than what it
would take to boot up a smart phone now.

If you have some time, check out this YouTube video of a film made in the 60's about the manufacture of the Apollo Guidance Computer. When I was a kid, I had some of that stuff that the government surplus depot sold to schools. It was fun to take apart and play with. I wish I still had some of that stuff intact. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBhPsyYCiM

[8~{} Uncle Computer Monster

On 12/20/2015 08:15 PM, Micky wrote:
I asked in the wrong spot. What do you mean that Google translated.
They translated it to middle? Where did it do that?

I just put 'nuddke-aged' in the search box and it came back with

Showing results for middle-aged
Search instead for nuddke-aged


with its usual 'here's what you really meant, stupid' subtlety. Usually
they get it right but it can be annoying when you're really searching
for what you typed in.

On 12/20/2015 08:21 PM, Micky wrote:
Hard to believe we all have our own now. Few of us do programming,
but we could. (I don't count setting values for 4th generation
"languages".)

You haven't lived until you've programmed in FORTH...

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 23:50:45 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/20/2015 08:15 PM, Micky wrote:
I asked in the wrong spot. What do you mean that Google translated.
They translated it to middle? Where did it do that?

I just put 'nuddke-aged' in the search box and it came back with

Showing results for middle-aged
Search instead for nuddke-aged

Oh, I get it. Maybe I should have thought of that.

Yeah, they definitely must have a finger displacement filter!

with its usual 'here's what you really meant, stupid' subtlety. Usually
they get it right but it can be annoying when you're really searching
for what you typed in.

LOL

On 12/20/2015 12:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 12/19/2015 09:22 PM, Micky wrote:
I AM a touch typist and pretty good too**, but I see this Dell
keyboard doesn't have the inverted dimples on keys G and H, likek it's
supposed to.

**6 errors per minute.

I get about six errors a minute. Unfortunately I also only type about
six words per minute.

When I was in high school only the business kids took typing. Nobody
ever thought engineers would have anything to do with a typewriter;
that's what the secretaries are for. My brother was older enough that it
worked in his career, but it didn't in mine.


My top typing speed was around 78wpm with the average errors any normal
typist would make. I hated manual typewriters because if you had to
make copies you had to use that blue/black carbon paper between papers
and type 2 to 3 copies at a time. If you made a mistake you had to
correct it on multiple copies. When word processors and pc text
applications (word) came out I was in heaven because an error only meant
you had to backspace/delete/edit and keep going, which, got very easy to
do and didn't lower typing speed all that much. The only thing that
would slow me down was typing numbers because they are on the top row of
the keyboard and I had short fingers, so I couldn't reach the numbers
accurately with any sort of speed. Usually, I ended up slowing down
enough to look at what I was typing and verify I hit the correct numbers.

When I started out typing I only got up to about 35wpm because manual
typewriters were just difficult to press the keys, even the electric
ones slowed me down. When chat rooms and internet typing came along my
speed doubled!

--
Maggie

"Muggles" wrote in message
...
On 12/20/2015 12:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 12/19/2015 09:22 PM, Micky wrote:
I AM a touch typist and pretty good too**, but I see
this Dell
keyboard doesn't have the inverted dimples on keys G and
H, likek it's
supposed to.

**6 errors per minute.

I get about six errors a minute. Unfortunately I also
only type about
six words per minute.

When I was in high school only the business kids took
typing. Nobody
ever thought engineers would have anything to do with a
typewriter;
that's what the secretaries are for. My brother was older
enough that it
worked in his career, but it didn't in mine.


My top typing speed was around 78wpm with the average
errors any normal
typist would make. I hated manual typewriters because if
you had to
make copies you had to use that blue/black carbon paper
between papers
and type 2 to 3 copies at a time. If you made a mistake
you had to
correct it on multiple copies. When word processors and
pc text
applications (word) came out I was in heaven because an
error only meant
you had to backspace/delete/edit and keep going, which,
got very easy to
do and didn't lower typing speed all that much. The only
thing that
would slow me down was typing numbers because they are on
the top row of
the keyboard and I had short fingers, so I couldn't reach
the numbers
accurately with any sort of speed. Usually, I ended up
slowing down
enough to look at what I was typing and verify I hit the
correct numbers.

When I started out typing I only got up to about 35wpm
because manual
typewriters were just difficult to press the keys, even
the electric
ones slowed me down. When chat rooms and internet typing
came along my
speed doubled!

--
Maggie

I find it totally ridiculous that the qwerty keyboard still
exists! The dovorak
layout is so much better and easier to use it is a quantum
leap forward. And
to change to a dovorak is an adventure in itself to find it
on most operating
systems. Another pet peeve of mine is the use of the term
'centrifugal force'
as it simply does not exist no matter how you view it. The
correct term
would be 'centrifugal reaction' to an applied force field.
Gonna sit down now...

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 10:15:50 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:


I didn't know there was such a thing as a west coast stove, since I
didnt' think there was any heavy industry west of Minnesota. I wonder
if the Beach Boys have a song about them.

The closest relationship that I can find between stoves and The Beach Boys
is this:

The Beach Boys have an album named "All Summer Long"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuj6LEZaIo

Ashley Stove has an album named "All Summer Long"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Wr...ZmOgx-pfYMuraX

Ashley is the brand name of a line of wood/coal burning stoves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCabj1kBW-M

Ashley is now part of The United States Stove Company

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheUSStove

The Beach Boys performed a song named Surfin' USA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNypbmPPDco

What goes around, comes around.

On 12/20/2015 7:22 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 12/20/2015 04:30 AM, Micky wrote:
I had watched my mother type my brother's papers in college -- he's 7
years older -- and maybe med school, and I didn't want to depend on
someone else. But I agree that it surprised me when I typed for a
living, as a computer programmer.

I did a seque into programming as the world changed but I started out in
the machine tool industry. There was drafting involved, mostly
schematics and panel layouts, but no typing. More likely you would find
me with a screwdriver and a Simpson debugging a control circuit.

I found I enjoyed programming, which I did not in my college days when
it was FORTRAN IV and System 360's. Still, by the last '80s I was
starting to wonder if a man really should make a living in front of a
glorified typewriter. I sort of retired/dropped out and spent the next
ten years doing more physical work. Then I wandered back into the field.
I've enjoyed it, which is why I'm still doing it.

Of all the programmers in my group I think there are a couple who can
actually type by any accepted definition of typing.

Do you think programming is a mans world job?

--
Maggie

On 12/21/2015 3:53 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 12/20/2015 7:22 PM, rbowman wrote:
Of all the programmers in my group I think there are a couple who can
actually type by any accepted definition of typing.

Do you think programming is a mans world job?


You're both pretty quick on that thread drift.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..