VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On 11/11/2015 5:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:


VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

The "$1000 gift" VW announced recently seems ridiculous -- esp if
it truly is "no strings attached"! Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:33:33 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:



VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:33:33 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:



VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.

Personally I never bought domestic brand. Drove new company every 3
years. GM, Ford, Chrysler, they were all same. My family always had
couple Subaru vehicles specially for kids. We keep buying them, they
keep making same way. My BIL just picked up a Nissan Rogue. Widn shield
wiper motor problem causing intermittent operation, passenger side door
is working erratic. Hope it is not a lemon. Most mechanics are at a loss
when they come to electrical problems. I have zero issue with my MDX
since new. Wife's Suzuki SX4 AWD is fun car to drive. Bought it coz it
has timing chain. I hate the job replacing timing belt.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 05:58:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/11/2015 5:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:


VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

The "$1000 gift" VW announced recently seems ridiculous -- esp if
it truly is "no strings attached"!

VW says that the offer they made is "no strings attached" but others
say that anyone who accepts the offer will give up some of the rights
he has now for having been cheated on his current car.

If someone A pays money with a check and writes on it, "In full
payment" and the other person B signs it, B has acknowledged full
payment. If A doesn't write that and B writes "Under protest" above
his endorsement, B doesn't give up his right for added payment.

In NYS, if both A and B write their words, B prevails and retains his
rights.

But how do you write "Under Protest" when you get this $1000, and
there may well be no statute or case law for in-kind payments.


Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]

Don Y wrote:

Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

My guess is that few VW owners truly want a "real solution" because it
would reduce the performance and fuel economy of their vehicles. Like
most people, they may care about air quality but don't want to be the
ones to pay for it.

On 11/11/2015 10:14 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
Don Y wrote:

Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

My guess is that few VW owners truly want a "real solution" because it
would reduce the performance and fuel economy of their vehicles. Like
most people, they may care about air quality but don't want to be the
ones to pay for it.

The Seinfeld "Low Fat Frozen Yogurt" episode? :

But, this (probably) isn't a case where folks can "avoid" any
eventual fix and just "settle" for the bribe^H^H^H payoff.
When VW comes out with a fix, neglecting to take advantage
of it could very probably leave them with undriveable vehicles.
I'm sure someone will come up with a testing strategy that defeats
the "cheating device" so vehicles that still have that in place
will find themselves failing emissions tests.

And, as this is now a widely publicized problem, only the completely
clueless will fail to check potential "used car" purchases for
whether or not they have been successfully "recalled" (fixed).
I suspect VW will be required to produce a web site that allows
a VIN to be entered and the update status verified.

I.e., I don't see the value to VW for the "giveaway" -- except to
possibly shore up an eroding public image and bolster resale
values in the interim?

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 09:20:19 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:33:33 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:



VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.
You mean they actually OFFERED a solution???

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:32:17 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 05:58:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/11/2015 5:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:


VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

The "$1000 gift" VW announced recently seems ridiculous -- esp if
it truly is "no strings attached"!

VW says that the offer they made is "no strings attached" but others
say that anyone who accepts the offer will give up some of the rights
he has now for having been cheated on his current car.

If someone A pays money with a check and writes on it, "In full
payment" and the other person B signs it, B has acknowledged full
payment. If A doesn't write that and B writes "Under protest" above
his endorsement, B doesn't give up his right for added payment.

In NYS, if both A and B write their words, B prevails and retains his
rights.

But how do you write "Under Protest" when you get this $1000, and
there may well be no statute or case law for in-kind payments.


Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:52:00 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/11/2015 10:14 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
Don Y wrote:

Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

My guess is that few VW owners truly want a "real solution" because it
would reduce the performance and fuel economy of their vehicles. Like
most people, they may care about air quality but don't want to be the
ones to pay for it.

The Seinfeld "Low Fat Frozen Yogurt" episode? :

But, this (probably) isn't a case where folks can "avoid" any
eventual fix and just "settle" for the bribe^H^H^H payoff.
When VW comes out with a fix, neglecting to take advantage
of it could very probably leave them with undriveable vehicles.
I'm sure someone will come up with a testing strategy that defeats
the "cheating device" so vehicles that still have that in place
will find themselves failing emissions tests.

And, as this is now a widely publicized problem, only the completely
clueless will fail to check potential "used car" purchases for
whether or not they have been successfully "recalled" (fixed).
I suspect VW will be required to produce a web site that allows
a VIN to be entered and the update status verified.

I.e., I don't see the value to VW for the "giveaway" -- except to
possibly shore up an eroding public image and bolster resale
values in the interim?


The "giveaway" is tied to a trade? If it gets the subject cars out of
the hands of owners, it limits their liability to the owners - when
the penalty is assessed only "current owners" may be able to claim the
higher awards??? Sounds like a real good idea to "buy them off cheap"
if that is the case.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:27:17 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:33:33 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:



VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.

Personally I never bought domestic brand. Drove new company every 3
years. GM, Ford, Chrysler, they were all same. My family always had
couple Subaru vehicles specially for kids. We keep buying them, they
keep making same way. My BIL just picked up a Nissan Rogue. Widn shield
wiper motor problem causing intermittent operation, passenger side door
is working erratic. Hope it is not a lemon. Most mechanics are at a loss
when they come to electrical problems. I have zero issue with my MDX
since new. Wife's Suzuki SX4 AWD is fun car to drive. Bought it coz it
has timing chain. I hate the job replacing timing belt.
Never been a fan of Nissan since the 510 and the 240Z - and less so
since their marriage to Renault. I rallied a renault for 3 years -
successfully, ane without any breakdowns - but certainly not my
favorite cars.

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .

On 11/11/2015 3:40 PM, wrote:


Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.
You mean they actually OFFERED a solution???


Sure, just buy another one of our crappy cars. Nope, that was my last
one. Every GM car I ever had needed warranty work. I just bought my
4th Hyundai and only had one minor problem that was covered. Three
Sonata Limited and just got a Genesis with Ultra package. Nice car.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:27:17 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one.


This technique has made Bill Gates what he is today.

On 11/11/2015 1:47 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:52:00 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/11/2015 10:14 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
Don Y wrote:

Why not put that money towards a
real solution instead of just giving it away?

My guess is that few VW owners truly want a "real solution" because it
would reduce the performance and fuel economy of their vehicles. Like
most people, they may care about air quality but don't want to be the
ones to pay for it.

The Seinfeld "Low Fat Frozen Yogurt" episode? :

But, this (probably) isn't a case where folks can "avoid" any
eventual fix and just "settle" for the bribe^H^H^H payoff.
When VW comes out with a fix, neglecting to take advantage
of it could very probably leave them with undriveable vehicles.
I'm sure someone will come up with a testing strategy that defeats
the "cheating device" so vehicles that still have that in place
will find themselves failing emissions tests.

And, as this is now a widely publicized problem, only the completely
clueless will fail to check potential "used car" purchases for
whether or not they have been successfully "recalled" (fixed).
I suspect VW will be required to produce a web site that allows
a VIN to be entered and the update status verified.

I.e., I don't see the value to VW for the "giveaway" -- except to
possibly shore up an eroding public image and bolster resale
values in the interim?


The "giveaway" is tied to a trade? If it gets the subject cars out of
the hands of owners, it limits their liability to the owners - when
the penalty is assessed only "current owners" may be able to claim the
higher awards??? Sounds like a real good idea to "buy them off cheap"
if that is the case.

AFAICT, the giveaway has "no strings attached". I.e., if you currently
*own* one of the afflicted vehicles, VW wants to give you some money
(and NOT impact your ability to make claims against them in the future)!

I.e., the vehicles don't "change" as a result of this action. The
company's liability doesn't change. It's just a "gift".

Sure seems like it would be more prudent for VW to apply those re$ource$ to
the actual INEVITABLE fix ("inevitable" because the vehicles will undoubtedly
never be "registerable" once the emissions testing folks sort out how to
address their subterfuge -- which may be something as simple as verifying VINs
of "fixed" vehicles via some VW maintained website to ensure that normal
testing procedures WILL yield accurate results)

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .


I guess the thread heading threw me off - it says "for trade". (it
also says $3000)

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:12:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/11/2015 3:40 PM, wrote:


Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one. I won't
buy GM cars any more after their lame solution to a problem I had with
my Buick.
You mean they actually OFFERED a solution???


Sure, just buy another one of our crappy cars. Nope, that was my last
one. Every GM car I ever had needed warranty work. I just bought my
4th Hyundai and only had one minor problem that was covered. Three
Sonata Limited and just got a Genesis with Ultra package. Nice car.

I've sure not had any positive experience dealing with late model GMs.
My 1928 Chevy National was likely the best CXhevy experience I've had
- and that's not saying much!!!

On 11/11/2015 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .

I guess the thread heading threw me off - it says "for trade". (it
also says $3000)

Two different issues -- my fault for conflating them in my post.

I've not looked at the "trade" offer. But, the $1K offer has seen
a fair bit of press, lately.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:01:14 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .


I guess the thread heading threw me off - it says "for trade". (it
also says $3000)

I should've included this paragraph from the article.

"Volkswagen already is offering $2,000 to current VW owners to trade in
their cars for new vehicles, and the gift cards and vouchers would add
$1,000 to that."




--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit.

That's what I was saying, that despite what the news stories say
accepting the offer would mean, that it actually means that rights are
lost. Whoever wrote the news stories is almost certainly going by a
press release by VW, the same company that programmed the cars to
cheat in the first place. What matters is the [release] form that
the person signs when he gets his $1000, a form that probably hasn't
even been written yet. And what also matters is the legal
significance of signing the check or accepting whatever is given.

One should not be taking legal advice from the other party to a
contract. That VW says there is no impact does not mean there isn't.
Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .

On 11/11/2015 04:13 PM, taxed and spent wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:27:17 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Any time I visit a dealer I feel like I need a shower afterwards. The
best of them are still on the sleazy side. The solution to any
automotive problem seems to be the same. Buy another one.


This technique has made Bill Gates what he is today.



The assholes running Microsoft today make Bill Gates look like a saint.

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:33:38 AM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
--

I had a thought that VW diesel owners could get a boy from the hood to steal their unacceptable VW then strip it or burn it so their auto insurance company can buy them another vehicle. I doubt I'm the only person who's thought of it because there is a county here in the state that had a deep flooded quarry and a cottage industry evolved around paying boys from the county to dump cars into the quarry for insurance fraud or to get rid of an otherwise troublesome vehicle. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Quarry Monster

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:07:42 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:01:14 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .


I guess the thread heading threw me off - it says "for trade". (it
also says $3000)

I should've included this paragraph from the article.

"Volkswagen already is offering $2,000 to current VW owners to trade in
their cars for new vehicles, and the gift cards and vouchers would add
$1,000 to that."
Gift cards and vouchers for what?? Service on the VW? Dinner at a
fancy restaurant? or cold hard cash to spend as the recipient desires?
And from the wording of that paragraph it sounds like the $1000 "gift
cards and vouchers" were on top of the $2000 trade in bonus.
You are saying the $1000 is available regardless if the owner trades
the car or not. I'm not reading the whole thing - so I'll take your
word for it.

Bad move on VW's part in my opinion.

In Uncle Monster writes:

I had a thought that VW diesel owners could get a boy from the hood to stea=
l their unacceptable VW then strip it or burn it so their auto insurance co=
mpany can buy them another vehicle. I doubt I'm the only person who's thoug=
ht of it because there is a county here in the state that had a deep floode=
d quarry and a cottage industry evolved around paying boys from the county =
to dump cars into the quarry for insurance fraud or to get rid of an otherw=
ise troublesome vehicle. ^_^

with or without the troublesome drivers left inside...?


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:19:34 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:33:38 AM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
--

I had a thought that VW diesel owners could get a boy from the hood to steal their unacceptable VW then strip it or burn it so their auto insurance company can buy them another vehicle. I doubt I'm the only person who's thought of it because there is a county here in the state that had a deep flooded quarry and a cottage industry evolved around paying boys from the county to dump cars into the quarry for insurance fraud or to get rid of an otherwise troublesome vehicle. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Quarry Monster
I've only purchaced one new car, and only a few from new car dealers.
Most have been from auto brokers or directly from private owners, the
odd one from a used car lot.

On 11/11/2015 5:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:07:42 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:01:14 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:09:21 -0500, "Kurt V. Ullman"
wrote:

On 11/11/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

[Of course, considering it's not $1000 *CASH*...]
Accepting that $1000 is NOT no strings attached if, as it seams, it
means you wave the right to any other remedies the law may impose on
VW. You take the $1000 and no longer own the vehicle with the problem,
and have signed off any rights former owners may be entitled to as
well as any rights you will have as an owner.

I'd say "shove it VW" and buy something else.

At least the original news stories said VW made the offer and
explicitly stated that it wouldn't impact on any other remedies
including the results of any class action suit. Seems as though their
crisis management people have learned from the mistakes others .


I guess the thread heading threw me off - it says "for trade". (it
also says $3000)

I should've included this paragraph from the article.

"Volkswagen already is offering $2,000 to current VW owners to trade in
their cars for new vehicles, and the gift cards and vouchers would add
$1,000 to that."
Gift cards and vouchers for what?? Service on the VW? Dinner at a
fancy restaurant? or cold hard cash to spend as the recipient desires?

AIUI, $500 is in the form of vouchers to be used at (VW) dealers.
The other $500 is a prepaid credit card. So, it's a throwback to
dealers for overpriced services and $500 to spend for the holidays
(etc.)

And from the wording of that paragraph it sounds like the $1000 "gift
cards and vouchers" were on top of the $2000 trade in bonus.
You are saying the $1000 is available regardless if the owner trades
the car or not.

Exactly. It's a *gift*! It does nothing to fix the "problem" that
YOUR CAR will still have after the money is gone. It just buys good will
(and "time") for dealers and customers: "Trust us, here's some money"

I'm not reading the whole thing - so I'll take your
word for it.

Bad move on VW's part in my opinion.

Which was *my* point up-thread! Put that $1K towards a *real* solution
that doesn't result in your vehicles looking like crap!

there may be no real solution for this problem.........

if it had been a easy or cost effective solution they wouldnt of cheated.....

On 11/11/2015 9:21 PM, bob haller wrote:
there may be no real solution for this problem.........

if it had been a easy or cost effective solution they wouldnt of cheated.....

Of *course* there's a solution! But, like all engineering problems,
you have to decide to "squeeze the balloon" in a different place.
E.g., price vs. performance.

I'm sure they can get emissions in line with just a software tweek (this
is undoubtedly the cheapest solution) -- but, fuel economy *and/or*
performance (e.g., acceleration) may well suffer. Or, they may have to
add considerable "chemical processing" to the exhaust chain which
might be more labor intensive (installing a "thing") and/or harder
to design ("Hmmm... where do we *put* the THING? And, what about all
these other CAR MODELS??")

How much would you feel cheated if you ended up with a car that
got N fewer MPG? I.e., that put it on a par with some other
vehicle that you RULED OUT in your purchasing decision. Or,
that took much of the "pep" out of the drivetrain? Hell, you
could drive a Prius if your primary concern was emissions
and fuel economy (yet, you chose not to!)

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:30:02 PM UTC-6, danny burstein wrote:
In Uncle Monster writes:

I had a thought that VW diesel owners could get a boy from the hood to stea=
l their unacceptable VW then strip it or burn it so their auto insurance co=
mpany can buy them another vehicle. I doubt I'm the only person who's thoug=
ht of it because there is a county here in the state that had a deep floode=
d quarry and a cottage industry evolved around paying boys from the county =
to dump cars into the quarry for insurance fraud or to get rid of an otherw=
ise troublesome vehicle. ^_^

with or without the troublesome drivers left inside...?
--
If the troublesome drivers were caught, they wound up in jail but there have been instances where divers have discovered cars in the bottom of lakes with the body or bodies of missing persons still inside. Unfortunately, Ted Kennedy has passed away or you could ask him. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Lake Monster

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:42:49 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:19:34 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:33:38 AM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW owners can get a total $3000 if they trade their vehicles
involved in the emissions cheating scandal.
Article here at ABC News 4: http://alturl.com/tsvou
That reminds me of the GM offer back in the 70s or so. GM
was offering an extra $1000 to trade the pickups with the
gas tanks outside of the rails.
What a deal. That auto purchasing thing always leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
--

I had a thought that VW diesel owners could get a boy from the hood to steal their unacceptable VW then strip it or burn it so their auto insurance company can buy them another vehicle. I doubt I'm the only person who's thought of it because there is a county here in the state that had a deep flooded quarry and a cottage industry evolved around paying boys from the county to dump cars into the quarry for insurance fraud or to get rid of an otherwise troublesome vehicle. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Quarry Monster
I've only purchaced one new car, and only a few from new car dealers.
Most have been from auto brokers or directly from private owners, the
odd one from a used car lot.

I've never owned a new car but it seems like every time I get a nice one, something bad happens to it. I've had nice cars totaled when they were parked or had a tree fall on them. My beat up cars were rarely hit. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Nice Monster

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 11:12:16 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
On 11/11/2015 9:21 PM, bob haller wrote:
there may be no real solution for this problem.........

if it had been a easy or cost effective solution they wouldnt of cheated.....

Of *course* there's a solution! But, like all engineering problems,
you have to decide to "squeeze the balloon" in a different place.
E.g., price vs. performance.

I'm sure they can get emissions in line with just a software tweek (this
is undoubtedly the cheapest solution) -- but, fuel economy *and/or*
performance (e.g., acceleration) may well suffer. Or, they may have to
add considerable "chemical processing" to the exhaust chain which
might be more labor intensive (installing a "thing") and/or harder
to design ("Hmmm... where do we *put* the THING? And, what about all
these other CAR MODELS??")

How much would you feel cheated if you ended up with a car that
got N fewer MPG? I.e., that put it on a par with some other
vehicle that you RULED OUT in your purchasing decision. Or,
that took much of the "pep" out of the drivetrain? Hell, you
could drive a Prius if your primary concern was emissions
and fuel economy (yet, you chose not to!)

Give each owner a module to plug into the computer that adjusts the engines to act like they do during the tests. Have the dealer install the module and test the ECM. Of course, there will be customers who will remove the module because the emissions control degrades performance but it would put the onus on the vehicle owner and not the manufacturer. People have modified their computer controlled vehicles since they came on the market. As I recall, there are performance roms that can be plugged into the ECM on older GM vehicles, I don't know about the newer ones. o_O

[8~{} Uncle ECM Monster

On 11/11/2015 11:21 PM, bob haller wrote:
there may be no real solution for this problem.........

if it had been a easy or cost effective solution they wouldnt of cheated.....


The solution was a $360 urea injector that was nixed as being too
expensive. Looks cheap right about now.

On 2015-11-12, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The solution was a $360 urea injector that was nixed as being too
expensive. Looks cheap right about now.

Which do you think is more/less attractive to car buyers, lower mileage or
a pee pumpin' package (DEF)?

nb

On 11/12/2015 12:50 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I've never owned a new car but it seems like every time I get a nice one, something bad happens to it. I've had nice cars totaled when they were parked or had a tree fall on them. My beat up cars were rarely hit. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Nice Monster


I was the third (and last) owner of a 1970 Karmen Ghia coupe. The car
was hit 7 times before being totaled and it was not moving any of the 7
times. I bought the car while it had two wheels on the sidewalk where
it was pushed by a student driver in the other car. It had just been
painted a few days earlier from previous damage.

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...



On 11/11/2015 11:21 PM, bob haller wrote:
there may be no real solution for this problem.........

if it had been a easy or cost effective solution they wouldnt of cheated.....


The solution was a $360 urea injector that was nixed as being too
expensive. Looks cheap right about now.

Isn't urea a component of ****? So just pee in the injector. I'm sure
someone will get ****ed off.

--
Tekkie