~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors
suggest "just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the
underlying blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated
the structural block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Since the cracks are there because of movement, I would not use a
cementatious material to patch them. I want something that allows for a bit
of movement. I caulk and paint them. For hairline up to maybe 1/8 I use
acrylic caulk, I had a joint between a free standing wall and the house
that had opened up to 1/4 - 1/2, used polyurethane caulk.

The norm IME for stucco cracks is on block joint lines, easily visible. I
haven't worried about whether the cracks penetrate into the block joints as
there is nothing I could do to repair same without major effort and expense
and I view some joint cracks rather the same way as I would in wood; i.e.,
minor local damage does not impair the whole.

On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

When I lived in Florida, our condo assn. got some estimates for painting
stucco/concrete block bldg. with loads of mold and lots of hairline
cracks. I worked on getting estimates...first, for 2 coats elastomeric
paint and all the usual prep, was for $27K. Last, and the one we used,
was a tad under $7K. Contractor rec. 2 coats paint, but board wanted
cheap. I am not a lowest-bid fan, but this contractor was good. They
used brushable caulk, which I had never heard of before, and it turned
out to be a flawless job....they spent first week just on pressure
washing, as the old paint job was in horrible shape and there was loads
of paint that blasted off the bldg. Paint job looked great 6 years
later when I left.

On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I would start out by looking at websites for a couple of paint companies
and look at the technical stuff for particular conditions. Read the
recommendations for product and application. Then, so you have an idea
of how one SHOULD approach the problem, get a couple of estimated from
reputable paint contractors. The better prepared you are, the less they
will try to over-sell and you might get additional good recommendations.

On 10/2/2015 6:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

Buy a new house without any cracks.
While yer at it, did you check out any crack houses in the hood?

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:14:58 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I use this. Works very well. Made by DAP. Comes pre-mixed in quarts or
gallons. Work it into cracks by hand, then paint with elastomeric
paint when cured. Larger cracks or patches my required you to build-up
in layers.

- It creates a hard durable patch which when painted blends evenly
with the original stucco
- It is mildew and weather resistant
- Can be textured to match surrounding stucco
- Durable and flexible
- Ready to use

HD has it or Amazon

https://tinyurl.com/orlzbx4

On 10/3/2015 8:30 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:14:58 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I use this. Works very well. Made by DAP. Comes pre-mixed in quarts or
gallons. Work it into cracks by hand, then paint with elastomeric
paint when cured. Larger cracks or patches my required you to build-up
in layers.

- It creates a hard durable patch which when painted blends evenly
with the original stucco
- It is mildew and weather resistant
- Can be textured to match surrounding stucco
- Durable and flexible
- Ready to use

HD has it or Amazon

https://lemonparty.org


LOL

Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!
Patching is good except matching color. Small fine cracks I, use colored
silicon sealant smeared in with fingers. When kid was young used to hit
the wall with hockey pucks playing street hockey causing some chips, etc.
In my neighborhood all houses are Stucco walled. Lately painting is
getting popular into darker earth colors. I one day I asked a painter
doing the job, pointing my house which has lighter mirage color. He
said,"You know, if I were you I wouldn't bother. It's like a fashion,
in about few years your house color will be fine. Your walls are in
pretty good shape."

Norminn wrote:
On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I would start out by looking at websites for a couple of paint companies
and look at the technical stuff for particular conditions. Read the
recommendations for product and application. Then, so you have an idea
of how one SHOULD approach the problem, get a couple of estimated from
reputable paint contractors. The better prepared you are, the less they
will try to over-sell and you might get additional good recommendations.

Some time ago, wasn't it discussed here about stucco painting vs. fogging?
I asked around about fogging here and no one seems to know what it is.

Colonel Edmund Burke wrote:
On 10/2/2015 6:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

Buy a new house without any cracks.
While yer at it, did you check out any crack houses in the hood?

Yup, sell the crack house and buy a new house w/o crack.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:37:28 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Some time ago, wasn't it discussed here about stucco painting vs. fogging?
I asked around about fogging here and no one seems to know what it is.

Yes. Painting stucco came up here a few times and people said not to
do it. Tell that to the millions of home owners with painted stucco.
If you dye the stucco before it's applied the mixture fluctuates, poor
matching of batches so it looks bad. Then it gets painted with
elsastomeric paint (Behr) anyway.

I've seen ads wanting to sell you a ceramic coating. Is that
"fogging"? I'll pass. One clown wanted me to install aluminum siding
in my neighborhood with _all_ stucco homes. I told him no thanks, my
neighbors would kill me

Patch, texture to match, paint -- done.

Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:37:28 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Some time ago, wasn't it discussed here about stucco painting vs. fogging?
I asked around about fogging here and no one seems to know what it is.

Yes. Painting stucco came up here a few times and people said not to
do it. Tell that to the millions of home owners with painted stucco.
If you dye the stucco before it's applied the mixture fluctuates, poor
matching of batches so it looks bad. Then it gets painted with
elsastomeric paint (Behr) anyway.

I've seen ads wanting to sell you a ceramic coating. Is that
"fogging"? I'll pass. One clown wanted me to install aluminum siding
in my neighborhood with _all_ stucco homes. I told him no thanks, my
neighbors would kill me

Patch, texture to match, paint -- done.

Stucco costs lot more than Al. siding.
I never had house with Al. siding but cedar siding,
prefinished hardy boards(out at 4 season cabin).
Our neighborhood was architect controoled when built.
Walls are only stucco and only certain colors were approved.
5 years after commnity was finished control expired. Now new
folks moving in change colors, black garage door, green house, Yike!
When I painted garage door with luminous dark purple I got friendly
flaks from close knit neighbors in 7 house Cul-de-Sac.

On 10/3/2015 3:37 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Norminn wrote:
On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the
underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I would start out by looking at websites for a couple of paint companies
and look at the technical stuff for particular conditions. Read the
recommendations for product and application. Then, so you have an idea
of how one SHOULD approach the problem, get a couple of estimated from
reputable paint contractors. The better prepared you are, the less they
will try to over-sell and you might get additional good recommendations.

Some time ago, wasn't it discussed here about stucco painting vs. fogging?
I asked around about fogging here and no one seems to know what it is.
I think people get confused about different types of
stucco....stucco/concrete block is almost only thing used in Florida.
Stucco on lath, IDK. In Florida, it is also almost universal to use
semi-gloss acryllic paint. Semi to discourage mildew from clinging.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 08:05:57 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

I think people get confused about different types of
stucco....stucco/concrete block is almost only thing used in Florida.
Stucco on lath, IDK. In Florida, it is also almost universal to use
semi-gloss acryllic paint. Semi to discourage mildew from clinging.

Out west many homes resemble a Taco Bell (my coined phrase). Wood
2X6 exterior wall framing, felt paper, foam and chicken wire. Three
coat stucco (gray, scratch and finish). With a weep screed at the
concrete foundation. Elastomeric paint. Here we get little rain, ~4
inches a year.

http://buildingscience.com.678elmp02.blackmesh.com/sites/default/files/migrate/jpg/BSI-032_Photo_03.jpg

Finish:

http://buildingscience.com.678elmp02.blackmesh.com/sites/default/files/migrate/jpg/BSI-032_Photo_01.jpg

[apologies, this thread slipped out of my display "window" -- out of sight...]

On 10/3/2015 2:45 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors
suggest "just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the
underlying blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated
the structural block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Since the cracks are there because of movement, I would not use a
cementatious material to patch them.

Why? What do you see as the downside? If the building is still "settling",
wouldn't any new mortar lines open themselves under the continued strain?

I.e., how would such a repair differ from the way it *was*? Or, the
way the rest of the joints that *haven't slipped?

I want something that allows for a bit
of movement. I caulk and paint them.

So, you only deal with the cosmetic aspect of the stucco (surface)
and don't sweat any structural consequences?

For hairline up to maybe 1/8 I use
acrylic caulk, I had a joint between a free standing wall and the house
that had opened up to 1/4 - 1/2, used polyurethane caulk.

We have a similar issue with a wall that adjoins the house and supports
the back/side gate. The closing of the gate inevitably causes the wall to
"move" wrt the house, opening a large crack. I plan on sinking some
bolts into the house and tying the wall to them. Then, fill with mortar.

The norm IME for stucco cracks is on block joint lines, easily visible. I

Yes. Very apparent (for masonry homes). Stucco on wood frame seems to
generate arbitrary cracks -- typically more vertical than running
along horizontal mortar lines as with block.

haven't worried about whether the cracks penetrate into the block joints as
there is nothing I could do to repair same without major effort and expense
and I view some joint cracks rather the same way as I would in wood; i.e.,
minor local damage does not impair the whole.

I was considering opening the stucco and seeing if there was a substance
that could be "squirted" into any cracks in the mortar lines. Then,
repairing the stucco (house is due to be painted, hence the reason
for addressing it now)

On 10/3/2015 7:33 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

When I lived in Florida, our condo assn. got some estimates for painting
stucco/concrete block bldg. with loads of mold and lots of hairline cracks. I
worked on getting estimates...first, for 2 coats elastomeric paint and all the
usual prep, was for $27K. Last, and the one we used, was a tad under $7K.
Contractor rec. 2 coats paint, but board wanted cheap. I am not a lowest-bid
fan, but this contractor was good. They used brushable caulk, which I had
never heard of before, and it turned out to be a flawless job....

Yes, and "wet brushing" can make the caulk not stand out as a "line"
under the paint.

they spent
first week just on pressure washing, as the old paint job was in horrible shape
and there was loads of paint that blasted off the bldg. Paint job looked great
6 years later when I left.

My concerns are the structural consequences of any underlying cracks.
And, sealing things up so water infiltration during winter months
doesn't lead to these growing (when freeze).

On 10/3/2015 7:38 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 10/2/2015 9:14 PM, Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I would start out by looking at websites for a couple of paint companies and
look at the technical stuff for particular conditions. Read the
recommendations for product and application. Then, so you have an idea of how
one SHOULD approach the problem, get a couple of estimated from reputable paint
contractors. The better prepared you are, the less they will try to over-sell
and you might get additional good recommendations.

We'll do the work ourselves. The issue has been trying to get an
answer that doesn't just sound like "addressing the cosmetics".

On 10/3/2015 1:33 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
When I painted garage door with luminous dark purple I got friendly flaks from
close knit neighbors in 7 house Cul-de-Sac.

A neighbor was planning on painting their home blue. Their neighbor
made such a stink -- as if all homes should be uniform "sand" colored.
"Lower the value of the other houses in the neighborhood". First
neighbor was cowed into NOT painting blue.

Other neighbor of the "stinker" then painted their house "metallic brown"
(no other way to describe this). Another painted bright *yellow*. Etc.

As to "house values", the stinker's home is the one (if any) that is
the culprit as he doesn't maintain it! Weeds, needs paint, etc.

Amusing how big some folks' balls can be!

Don Y wrote:
[apologies, this thread slipped out of my display "window" -- out of
sight...]
On 10/3/2015 2:45 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places)
and slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco
suggesting some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here).
Neighbors suggest "just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the
underlying blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated
the structural block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs.
(cement) "stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on
mortar lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything
"injectable"? (fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Since the cracks are there because of movement, I would not use a
cementatious material to patch them.

Why? What do you see as the downside? If the building is still
"settling", wouldn't any new mortar lines open themselves under the
continued strain?

**********************
That's why I don't use cementatious material...it cracks. Caulk stretches
to a point; if it later stretches to the point of breaking, THEN I would
worry about WHY things were moving and - possibly - comsider methods of
prevernting it.

Concrete/mortar just doesn't like any movement. My house is block on slab.
The slab did its cracking long ago, settled down after it did. I don't
recall any stucco cracks on the house walls save one lanai that has two end
walls that are stucco over ply over studs; there were a few hairline cracks
early on, caulked almost 20 years ago, still good.

There is a knee wall around a courtyard; it developed some cracks following
joint lines, a playing card size piece of stucco sloughed off too. All were
repaired with polyurethane caulk maybe five years afo, all are good.

A hose bib in the courtyard on a house wall started leaking inside the wall
maybe 8-10 years ago. After cutting out the stucco and block around it, the
problem turned out to be a nipple that had rusted out at the threads. After
replacing the nipple, the cavity was filled with foam up to about 1/4" from
the outside wall. I the used thinset to stucco the remaining 1/4". Still
good.

I have a seven foot high wall around a garden off the master bedroom. I
didn't have it stuccoed when I built the house, got tired of looking at the
joints so I used thinset to stucco the 30' of wall. I notice it has
developed cracks on the block joints in an area about 2' x 3' and will push
some caulk into the cracks someday soon.

**********************
I.e., how would such a repair differ from the way it *was*? Or, the
way the rest of the joints that *haven't slipped?

I don't understand what you are asking.

**********************

I want something that allows for a bit
of movement. I caulk and paint them.

So, you only deal with the cosmetic aspect of the stucco (surface)
and don't sweat any structural consequences?

**********************
For the cracks I am talking about - hairline to maybe 1/8" - I can't foresee
any structural consequences.

**********************
For hairline up to maybe 1/8 I use
acrylic caulk, I had a joint between a free standing wall and the
house that had opened up to 1/4 - 1/2, used polyurethane caulk.

We have a similar issue with a wall that adjoins the house and
supports the back/side gate. The closing of the gate inevitably causes
the
wall to "move" wrt the house, opening a large crack. I plan on
sinking some bolts into the house and tying the wall to them. Then, fill
with
mortar.

**********************
I think that would be a mistake unless the footer and block for the wall
were tied into those for the house when built. If not, and if you tie them
together, movement in one will affect the other. If they are separate, the
norm is a "cold" joint...one that allows for independent movement.

**********************

The norm IME for stucco cracks is on block joint lines, easily
visible. I

Yes. Very apparent (for masonry homes). Stucco on wood frame seems
to generate arbitrary cracks -- typically more vertical than running
along horizontal mortar lines as with block.

IME, the cracks are as likely to go on vertical block joints as horizontal;
usually, both.

haven't worried about whether the cracks penetrate into the block
joints as there is nothing I could do to repair same without major
effort and expense and I view some joint cracks rather the same way
as I would in wood; i.e., minor local damage does not impair the
whole.

I was considering opening the stucco and seeing if there was a
substance that could be "squirted" into any cracks in the mortar lines.
Then,
repairing the stucco (house is due to be painted, hence the reason
for addressing it now)

**********************
Well, I guess you could run some epoxy in but what good would it do? If
there is movement again either it would fail or new cracks would open up
elsewhere.

Keep in mind that block walls are very strong in compression but quite weak
in shear; very easy to push down a block wall. Also, a tiny, almost
imperceptible bit of movement can open a crack farther away that is many
times the size of the movement. Rather like a lever and a fulcrum...move
the long part of the fulcrum and that movement is amplified at the short
end.

I'm not saying that cracks are a good thing, just that they are pretty much
inevitable, depending on the geology of the area. My house is sitting on
sand, 60' to rock. Stuff moves here - especially newly built stuff - and I
don't consider a few stucco cracks to be a structural worry. YMMV

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:27:48 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

We'll do the work ourselves. The issue has been trying to get an
answer that doesn't just sound like "addressing the cosmetics".

How wide are these cracks? If you are worried about cracks in the
blocks, you could use an angle grinder and a 4" diamond blade to open
them wider following the crack direction, to see under the stucco
without removing large section of stucco.

How thick and what type of texture is the stucco (curious)?

On 10/3/2015 2:45 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Don Y wrote:
~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

Stucco on the north wall here at the old Haney place is bubbling up. Not all over - just enough to spend a half day. I scraped off a few of them and patched them OK -- does the job, but doesn't exactly match the texture. Original pattern was swirls in the first layer and then the usual throw on and smooth out the 2nd layer.

Looks like this only the first layer on mine has a dragged brush texture.
http://www.myphotoshopsite.com/tutor...tucco_orig.jpg

Stucco with these 3D patterns is a stupid idea if you ask me, but the lovely miseries Snuffy likes it. So... it was either hire a swirler or learn myself. It collects dirt on the rough surface, and water hang on it. It's not a good idea to wash this stuff off as I found out, so there no real easy way to keep it clean. I like stucco in general - it has been over 20 years and most of the walls are still like new. But I would never do the fancy 3D look again.

I watched a few youtube videos and then experiemented with various make shift tools. I found that using the brush piece of a push broom gives a pretty close match. So I've got the swirling down pat. Still can't figure out how to throw the 2nd coat up on the wall without scooping it up in my hands. I guess the hand-scooping will have to do.

Also mixing color is a waste of time for me. I got the stucco color where the sample matched exactly in the store and mixed a small batch using a 5 pound package scale. I figured it would be off, but it turned out to be like night and day. Got the exact mix. Then added the exact amount of water. When it dried is was so far off the original color that I figured I would just use plain stucco and then paint the whole wall. Add another day on the ladder....

I knew it would be a hard job, but, man, this is worse than digging a ditch. Stucco artists are definitely "artists." They deserve every nickel they get for this kind of work. Unfortunately my nickel supply is low, so I'll be out there again next weekend and end up cover head to toe in stucco drips.

And that's the way it is way out west.

Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:

I watched a few youtube videos and then experiemented with various
make shift tools. I found that using the brush piece of a push broom
gives a pretty close match. So I've got the swirling down pat.
Still can't figure out how to throw the 2nd coat up on the wall
without scooping it up in my hands. I guess the hand-scooping will
have to do.

Google "skip trowel"

On 10/5/2015 10:31 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Don Y wrote:

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on
mortar lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything
"injectable"? (fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Since the cracks are there because of movement, I would not use a
cementatious material to patch them.

Why? What do you see as the downside? If the building is still
"settling", wouldn't any new mortar lines open themselves under the
continued strain?

That's why I don't use cementatious material...it cracks.

Again, so what? It gives way -- it doesn't force the adjoining *blocks*
to crack. I.e., worst case, I end up with a similar crack in a similar
location at some time in the future. Or, if the settling has stopped,
no crack.

Caulk stretches
to a point; if it later stretches to the point of breaking, THEN I would
worry about WHY things were moving and - possibly - comsider methods of
prevernting it.

But caulk just "plug the holes" (gaps) it has no structural value.
A thick layer of paint would similarly "hide" the cracks -- and do little
else.

Concrete/mortar just doesn't like any movement. My house is block on slab.

Ditto.

The slab did its cracking long ago, settled down after it did. I don't
recall any stucco cracks on the house walls save one lanai that has two end
walls that are stucco over ply over studs; there were a few hairline cracks
early on, caulked almost 20 years ago, still good.

The largest/most noticeable of these is located above any load bearing points.
OTOH, there are others that appear from stress/strain.

There is a knee wall around a courtyard; it developed some cracks following
joint lines, a playing card size piece of stucco sloughed off too. All were
repaired with polyurethane caulk maybe five years afo, all are good.

A hose bib in the courtyard on a house wall started leaking inside the wall
maybe 8-10 years ago. After cutting out the stucco and block around it, the
problem turned out to be a nipple that had rusted out at the threads. After

We had a similar problem on the back wall. I removed the galv nipple
and fitting into which it was fastened and replumbed with copper and brass
from there out (I now have a good understanding of what doctors must
deal with when doing laproscopic surgery! :-/ OTOH, I suspect they aren't
trying to sweat joints 6 inches inside a masonary wall through a 3 inch
opening!). A bit of mortar and a scruff finish leaves the spot
indistinguishable from the original stucco that I removed to access the
plumbing.

replacing the nipple, the cavity was filled with foam up to about 1/4" from
the outside wall. I the used thinset to stucco the remaining 1/4". Still
good.

I have a seven foot high wall around a garden off the master bedroom. I
didn't have it stuccoed when I built the house, got tired of looking at the
joints so I used thinset to stucco the 30' of wall. I notice it has
developed cracks on the block joints in an area about 2' x 3' and will push
some caulk into the cracks someday soon.

Cosmetics don't worry me (much). Paint covers many sins. I am more
concerned with the structural consequences leading up to the cracks
and subsequent (as water infiltration and inevitable freezing expansion work
to further weaken those areas).

I.e., how would such a repair differ from the way it *was*? Or, the
way the rest of the joints that *haven't slipped?

I don't understand what you are asking.

I.e., replacing the failed mortar with more mortar is no worse than it
was *before* the cracks developed, right?

I want something that allows for a bit
of movement. I caulk and paint them.

So, you only deal with the cosmetic aspect of the stucco (surface)
and don't sweat any structural consequences?

For the cracks I am talking about - hairline to maybe 1/8" - I can't foresee
any structural consequences.

OK.

For hairline up to maybe 1/8 I use
acrylic caulk, I had a joint between a free standing wall and the
house that had opened up to 1/4 - 1/2, used polyurethane caulk.

We have a similar issue with a wall that adjoins the house and
supports the back/side gate. The closing of the gate inevitably causes
the
wall to "move" wrt the house, opening a large crack. I plan on
sinking some bolts into the house and tying the wall to them. Then, fill
with
mortar.

I think that would be a mistake unless the footer and block for the wall
were tied into those for the house when built. If not, and if you tie them
together, movement in one will affect the other. If they are separate, the
norm is a "cold" joint...one that allows for independent movement.

The separation is a result of the ~16" wide stack of cinderblock supported
*solely* at the footer being "slammed" by the spring loaded gate wanting
to close against it forcefully. The pile of blocks is much more willing to
"move" than the house against which it abuts.

A similar gate that is not springloaded has no evidence of this sort
of problem (the problem gate wants to be spring loaded to ensure it
remains closed even if not latched -- so pets can't escape; the other
gate has no "pet access")

The norm IME for stucco cracks is on block joint lines, easily
visible. I

Yes. Very apparent (for masonry homes). Stucco on wood frame seems
to generate arbitrary cracks -- typically more vertical than running
along horizontal mortar lines as with block.

IME, the cracks are as likely to go on vertical block joints as horizontal;
usually, both.

Yes. But on WOOD FRAME, there are no vertical block joints. So, instead
of a vertical crack terminating (or "turning") at the next course of
blocks, it continues to propagate downward following whatever stress line
the underlying construction yields.

It's not uncommon to see fairly new (stucco over wood) homes a year
later with long veins of caulk appied to try to "fix" the cracks that
have developed in that first year or so.

haven't worried about whether the cracks penetrate into the block
joints as there is nothing I could do to repair same without major
effort and expense and I view some joint cracks rather the same way
as I would in wood; i.e., minor local damage does not impair the
whole.

I was considering opening the stucco and seeing if there was a
substance that could be "squirted" into any cracks in the mortar lines.
Then,
repairing the stucco (house is due to be painted, hence the reason
for addressing it now)

Well, I guess you could run some epoxy in but what good would it do? If
there is movement again either it would fail or new cracks would open up
elsewhere.

If there is going to be movement, then there is nothing I *can* do -- the
house has enough mass to have "a mind of its own". OTOH, if it has
settled into this configuration, then bridging the cracks with something
structurally sound adds strength to the wall (instead of just covering up
a blemish)

Keep in mind that block walls are very strong in compression but quite weak
in shear; very easy to push down a block wall. Also, a tiny, almost
imperceptible bit of movement can open a crack farther away that is many
times the size of the movement. Rather like a lever and a fulcrum...move
the long part of the fulcrum and that movement is amplified at the short
end.

I'm not saying that cracks are a good thing, just that they are pretty much
inevitable, depending on the geology of the area. My house is sitting on
sand, 60' to rock. Stuff moves here - especially newly built stuff - and I
don't consider a few stucco cracks to be a structural worry. YMMV

Our problem is from groundwater pumping. Gradual subsidance. Nothing
that can be done to reverse it. No way to know if/when it will stop.
Nor any way to know that it *hasn't* stopped, already!

If its going to continue, then anything I do is going to be undone
by "mother nature". But, unlikely to cause BIGGER problems. OTOH,
if it has stopped, then anything I do is a permanent fix going forward.

(should I, instead, wait 10 more years and see if the cracks have become
larger? : )

On 10/3/2015 8:30 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:14:58 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

~1980 house is built of stucco over cinder block (in some places) and
slump block (in others).

There are long, narrow, noticeable cracks in the exterior stucco suggesting
some subsidence (water is all ground sourced, here). Neighbors suggest
"just slather some paint over it". frown

Is it OK to just patch these cracks? Or, should we expose the underlying
blocks to get an idea as to how much they've penetrated the structural
block?

If *just* superficial, any advantage to polymeric patches vs. (cement)
"stucco patch"?

And, if the cracks permeate the underlying block (presumably on mortar
lines), what's the recommended remedy? Anything "injectable"?
(fine mortar, cement adhesive, etc.)

Thx!

I use this. Works very well. Made by DAP. Comes pre-mixed in quarts or
gallons. Work it into cracks by hand, then paint with elastomeric
paint when cured. Larger cracks or patches my required you to build-up
in layers.

- It creates a hard durable patch which when painted blends evenly
with the original stucco
- It is mildew and weather resistant
- Can be textured to match surrounding stucco
- Durable and flexible
- Ready to use

HD has it or Amazon

So, you're just dealing with the "skin" and not worrying about what lies below?

(for other "stucco patching", I've just used cement with a bit of time
and trowel to approximately texture/scratch it -- paint hides a lot of sins
unless you know EXACTLY where to look)

On 10/5/2015 11:17 AM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:27:48 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

We'll do the work ourselves. The issue has been trying to get an
answer that doesn't just sound like "addressing the cosmetics".

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

If you are worried about cracks in the
blocks, you could use an angle grinder and a 4" diamond blade to open
them wider following the crack direction, to see under the stucco
without removing large section of stucco.

How thick and what type of texture is the stucco (curious)?

No idea as to thickness. It's a coarse lace (scratch+knockdown) texture.
Actually makes it easy *and* hard to match -- depending on where the
crack travels.

On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:31:34 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

Post a URL link to a free hosting site with photos. How could "we"
offer the best solution, without knowing the depth or width of
"cracks"?

"My car won't start. What is wrong?"

Personally, I think you my need an expert. Fixing cracks in stucco
isn't brain surgery.

On 10/9/2015 1:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:31:34 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

Post a URL link to a free hosting site with photos. How could "we"
offer the best solution, without knowing the depth or width of
"cracks"?

"My car won't start. What is wrong?"

Personally, I think you my need an expert. Fixing cracks in stucco
isn't brain surgery.

Have a guy coming to look at it. But, I'd like NOT to sit there
slack-jawed having to unconditionally accept everything he says!

On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:04:16 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/9/2015 1:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:31:34 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

Post a URL link to a free hosting site with photos. How could "we"
offer the best solution, without knowing the depth or width of
"cracks"?

"My car won't start. What is wrong?"

Personally, I think you my need an expert. Fixing cracks in stucco
isn't brain surgery.

Have a guy coming to look at it. But, I'd like NOT to sit there
slack-jawed having to unconditionally accept everything he says!

Good for you. You asked, I offered ideas or possible solutions. The
visitor will at least see what I and others can't see. Let us know how
things turn out.

Maybe you can nit-pic his opinion.

On 10/9/2015 2:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:04:16 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/9/2015 1:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:31:34 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

Post a URL link to a free hosting site with photos. How could "we"
offer the best solution, without knowing the depth or width of
"cracks"?

"My car won't start. What is wrong?"

Personally, I think you my need an expert. Fixing cracks in stucco
isn't brain surgery.

Have a guy coming to look at it. But, I'd like NOT to sit there
slack-jawed having to unconditionally accept everything he says!

Good for you. You asked, I offered ideas or possible solutions. The
visitor will at least see what I and others can't see. Let us know how
things turn out.

Maybe you can nit-pic his opinion.

Will do! And, I suspect I'm in for a lengthy lecture/explanation as to
why the breaks occur, why in *these* places, things the original builder
neglected, why they are in different places in the same house design
but different lot orientations, etc. So, it would be nice to have a
basic understanding before being overwhelmed with all that detail...

But, for the price of a dinner (well, probably *two* as I suspect he won't
fix them on his initial visit) it's a cheap education -- and an even cheaper
*fix*!

On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:56:44 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/9/2015 2:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 14:04:16 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/9/2015 1:54 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:31:34 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

How wide are these cracks?

I'd have to get on a ladder to tell for sure. But, the fact that I can easily
see them from the ground suggests they aren't *fine*! :

Post a URL link to a free hosting site with photos. How could "we"
offer the best solution, without knowing the depth or width of
"cracks"?

"My car won't start. What is wrong?"

Personally, I think you my need an expert. Fixing cracks in stucco
isn't brain surgery.

Have a guy coming to look at it. But, I'd like NOT to sit there
slack-jawed having to unconditionally accept everything he says!

Good for you. You asked, I offered ideas or possible solutions. The
visitor will at least see what I and others can't see. Let us know how
things turn out.

Maybe you can nit-pic his opinion.

Will do! And, I suspect I'm in for a lengthy lecture/explanation as to
why the breaks occur, why in *these* places, things the original builder
neglected, why they are in different places in the same house design
but different lot orientations, etc. So, it would be nice to have a
basic understanding before being overwhelmed with all that detail...

But, for the price of a dinner (well, probably *two* as I suspect he won't
fix them on his initial visit) it's a cheap education -- and an even cheaper
*fix*!


Is your home single or two story? Mine is single, wood framed built
on a cable tensioned concrete foundation. I have only experienced very
minor spider hairline stucco cracks around window & door frames
(stress). For a stucco guy, look in the phone book for "plastering"
(expert) or visit a construction site with Messians on the job