On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating experiences"!

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow
eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to
eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as
possible.

But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain"
for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns
and give them pleasant surprises.

I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of
this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake,
I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down
never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive
find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something"
but its gone before they can identify what it was.

For them, the experience is much more memorable.

[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish"
a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]

I've been in love with Oreos on and off for years. I had to breakup with them during a period of required weight loss. It was heart wrenching. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cookie Monster

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 5:55:34 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 5:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating
experiences"!

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow
eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to
eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as
possible.

But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain"
for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns
and give them pleasant surprises.

I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of
this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake,
I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down
never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive
find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something"
but its gone before they can identify what it was.

For them, the experience is much more memorable.

[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish"
a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]


When I make scalloped potatoes I use real butter and sweet milk along
with fresh chopped onions. The difference in the taste just by adding
real butter for me is the difference between enjoying the dish and
giving it to someone else who doesn't give a flip. If it doesn't taste
good there's no point in eating it for me, anyway.

--
Maggie

Can I come to your house and eat? Pleeeezz! ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hungry Monster

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 6:57:07 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 5:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating
experiences"!

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow
eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to
eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as
possible.

But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain"
for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns
and give them pleasant surprises.

I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of
this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake,
I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down
never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive
find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something"=
but its gone before they can identify what it was.

For them, the experience is much more memorable.

[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish"
a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]


When I make scalloped potatoes I use real butter and sweet milk along
with fresh chopped onions. The difference in the taste just by adding
real butter for me is the difference between enjoying the dish and
giving it to someone else who doesn't give a flip. If it doesn't taste
good there's no point in eating it for me, anyway.

Potatoes = mucous causing acid causing food, Rememeber how to figure out
+ and - lead using potato? Milk = acid causing mucous causing, Onion =
good. I eat to live. One close friend of mine who used to enjoy good
food always who knew all the good eating place in town died from stomach
cancer almost 20 years ago.

I remember reading about a study done of Japanese men who ate pickled foods that showed an increased incidence of stomach cancer. So I looked it up and found that everything I eat can and will kill me. o_O

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/top...er-risk.html/1

[8~{} Uncle Cancer Monster

On 10/07/2015 10:37 PM, Don Y wrote:

SOAP was a spoof on soap operas in approximately the same timeframe
that "Dallas" was popular. I find the series immensely funny and
watch it every year or so (to give me a chance to forget some of
the details between viewings).

Shows that my mind is in the gutter. For me SOAP is the Simple Object
Access Protocol. I prefer a more RESTful approach.

On 10/08/2015 04:35 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 9:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 10/07/2015 08:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
Most of my meals (for myself) are "checkoff items" -- how quickly and
effortlessly can I get the right mix of nutrients into my body without
making an "event" out of it.

Sounds like a customer for Soylent 2.0.

It take a lot of discipline for me NOT to get into the junk food
rut -- simply because it is so convenient (zero prep time). If
it was as simple as a "tablet"...

The guy that came up with Soylent couldn't jam it all into a tablet.
I've been curious but they've suspended shipping due to some mold found
on a couple of bottles.

On 10/08/2015 03:58 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Two weeks later, did we ever hear what kind of car the senior bought?

If it's a senior like me, it might be a couple of years. An observer
might think I make impulse purchases but generally it's something I've
been thinking over for quite a while.

On 10/7/2015 11:37 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 9:22 PM, Muggles wrote:

Time to resume my SOAP marathon...

I've seen that word SOAP used in a couple of posts, but not sure what it
is unless you're into watching day time soap operas.

SOAP was a spoof on soap operas in approximately the same timeframe
that "Dallas" was popular. I find the series immensely funny and
watch it every year or so (to give me a chance to forget some of
the details between viewings).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_%28TV_series%29

IIRC, it was the starting point for folks like Richard Mulligan,
Billy Crystal, Katherine Helmond, Robert Guillaume, etc. It
pokes fun at soap operas by its sheer outrageousness!

There are so many amusing scenes (for me) that I look forward
to stumbling upon them, again, with each re-watching. Many of
the punch-lines quickly evoke laughs when offered up out of context
as they are so easily reminiscent of the actual scenes in the show.

"It doesn't work when you're wet!"
"Peeeeterrrrr"
"(knock knock) Come in!"
"Oh! You wear that BELTED!"
"... how they know there's tomato plants up here? eh?"

hmmm I seem to remember the show, but don't think I've every actually
watched it.

--
Maggie

On 10/8/2015 5:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:11:30 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 2:04 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:23:22 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/6/2015 1:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:

Whoopee!! I just received my new knee brace and I was able to stand for a while and take some steps. Later I'll do some more walking. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Happy Monster


It's about time you got that new knee brace!!

--
Maggie

It was supposedly delivered Sunday but the mail carrier left a note instead and I didn't get the package until Tuesday afternoon. The brace I got last month was one size too small for my right knee but fits my left knee so I was able to put on both braces Tuesday afternoon and stand up a lot easier. Later today, I'll be up again but I must take it slow because I'm very weak from laying in bed for so long. Dammit it's frustrating but I don't give up and if I can convince the orthopedic surgeon that the circulation in my legs is good, I may be able to get knee joint replacement surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Gimpy Monster


Great news! It'll take a few weeks, probably, to get your legs back.
When I had that problem I started drinking Boost with protein and it
actually speeded up that process, I think.
--
Maggie

Along with the medications I'm getting, I'm also given a medicine cup full of a syrupy protein supplement which is supposed to promote the healing of damaged muscle and tissue. I was moved out of the TCU to another wing of the facility yesterday and I'm kind of worn out and in a lot of pain from the exertion of moving. The new room is larger but there was no phone or TV. My roommates sister and nephew brought one of his TV's from home but I don't care about TV because I have my computer but no phone concerns me because I have no cell service in this wing and could barely get a signal in the TCU. My goal today is to get up in my walker and shuffle as far as I can. It won't be easy but I refuse to give up. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Gimpy Monster


You can do it!

--
Maggie

On 10/8/2015 5:35 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 9:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 10/07/2015 08:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
Most of my meals (for myself) are "checkoff items" -- how quickly and
effortlessly can I get the right mix of nutrients into my body without
making an "event" out of it.

Sounds like a customer for Soylent 2.0.

It take a lot of discipline for me NOT to get into the junk food
rut -- simply because it is so convenient (zero prep time). If
it was as simple as a "tablet"...



When I went to elementary school my mom used to make sandwiches by the
loaf. She'd make maybe 10 at a time, put them into sandwich bags, and
then put all the sandwiches back into the bread wrapper. The whole thing
would be put into the freezer and every morning she'd grab a sandwich
for my lunch and it'd be thawed out by the time we went to lunch in the
cafeteria.

--
Maggie

On 10/8/2015 7:20 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 3:18:33 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 3:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 23:21:48 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On 10/6/2015 10:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2015 7:11 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Instead, its wide-eyed "look at this neat feature I added!" ("Mommy,
I made a poops!")

Yeow, you really have a thing for FOSS writers that's pretty hostile.
Some
of the best software I have ever seen came from 17 year old FOSS
developers.

No, I'm disappointed in the efforts of my peers.

Talk to a "professional" software writer about the quality of
the code that he produces (number of bugs, lack of documentation,
stilted user interfaces, etc.) and he'll quickly blame it on
his boss/work environment:
- boss never gives us TIME to test things properly
- the bozos in Marketing that come up with these requirements are idiots
- the Sales folks who designed the interfaces listened to too many users
and didn't impose any consistency on their suggestions
- the documentation folks are all English-lit majors and completely
clueless as to technology
etc.

I.e., the *implication* is that, left to his/her own devices, you'd get
a MUCH better product! It's all the OTHER bozos on the bus that are
compromising HIS/HER product!

Then, when they are in an environment (FOSS) where there *are* no other
bozos *imposing* their will on their efforts, they produce the same crappy,
untested, undocumented, poorly defined code! And, when you call them
to task about it, they shrug and say, "No one was PAYING me for it,
so why should I do those things (that I don't WANT to do)?"

It's like looking at a house that a "professional" painter recently
finished painting and commenting on how sloppily he cut in the
trim around the windows, the fact that there is paint on the
glass, paint on the ground, the mismatch of colors on two adjacent
walls, etc. And, when questioning him, he replies "homeowner wanted
it done 'on the cheap' so I didn't bother with all the prep work,
cleanup, color matching, etc."

OK. But, then, when you visit him at his folks' house (or his own)
you notice the same slip-shod workmanship! But, now his "excuse" is
"I did the job for free; why should I bother with those annoying details
that take so much time to do properly?"

I.e., you've got an opportunity to *shine*; to create something
with no "arbitrary" constraints beyond what your own abilities
impose. And, instead of rising to that occasion, you *sink* to
your typical level of performance.

I like the idea of producing quality work/products. It makes more sense
to do it better the first time, I think.
It's the old, old question. "Why is there always enough time and
money to do it twice, but never enough to do it right?"


Exactly! I like to design various things, and usually create a
prototype first to work out the kinks before I create something for a
client. Solving design problems is fun and seeing the solution in the
finished product is really satisfying especially when the feedback is
what I was expecting from a good design.
--
Maggie

"That's too expensive. You shouldn't make it so good, it won't be used that much and we are going to produce a lot of them."......later on,"Hey! Why the frak did this thing come apart while I was using it?! What's the matter with you, I thought you knew what you were doing?!" BTDT ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Design Monster


I like to test my own products first and I'm pretty critical of how I
want things to work, and especially STAY together!

--
Maggie

On 10/8/2015 8:14 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 5:55:34 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 5:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating
experiences"!

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow
eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to
eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as
possible.

But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain"
for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns
and give them pleasant surprises.

I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of
this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake,
I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down
never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive
find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something"
but its gone before they can identify what it was.

For them, the experience is much more memorable.

[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish"
a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]


When I make scalloped potatoes I use real butter and sweet milk along
with fresh chopped onions. The difference in the taste just by adding
real butter for me is the difference between enjoying the dish and
giving it to someone else who doesn't give a flip. If it doesn't taste
good there's no point in eating it for me, anyway.

--
Maggie

Can I come to your house and eat? Pleeeezz! ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hungry Monster


Sure, but I need a couple days notice so I can buy the ingredients and
prepare the 'tators.

--
Maggie

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 10:13:41 AM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/8/2015 8:14 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 5:55:34 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 10/7/2015 5:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating
experiences"!

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow
eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to
eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as
possible.

But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain"
for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns
and give them pleasant surprises.

I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of
this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake,
I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down
never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive
find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something"
but its gone before they can identify what it was.

For them, the experience is much more memorable.

[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish"
a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]


When I make scalloped potatoes I use real butter and sweet milk along
with fresh chopped onions. The difference in the taste just by adding
real butter for me is the difference between enjoying the dish and
giving it to someone else who doesn't give a flip. If it doesn't taste
good there's no point in eating it for me, anyway.

--
Maggie

Can I come to your house and eat? Pleeeezz! ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hungry Monster


Sure, but I need a couple days notice so I can buy the ingredients and
prepare the 'tators.

--
Maggie

I have a little red haired girlfriend who's grandfather called her "Tater". ^_^

http://www.cafepress.com/barneysnuffy/6897013

[8~{} Uncle Butter Monster

On 10/8/2015 11:07 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 10/8/2015 5:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was moved out of the TCU to another wing of the facility yesterday and I'm kind of worn out and in a lot of pain from the exertion of moving. The new room is larger but there was no phone or TV. My roommates sister and nephew brought one of his TV's from home but I don't care about TV because I have my computer but no phone concerns me because I have no cell service in this wing and could barely get a signal in the TCU. My goal today is to get up in my walker and shuffle as far as I can. It won't be easy but I refuse to give up. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Gimpy Monster


You can do it!


Best wishes, on your recovery. Hope you get some
of your old self back.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 6:47:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/8/2015 11:07 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 10/8/2015 5:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was moved out of the TCU to another wing of the facility yesterday and I'm kind of worn out and in a lot of pain from the exertion of moving. The new room is larger but there was no phone or TV. My roommates sister and nephew brought one of his TV's from home but I don't care about TV because I have my computer but no phone concerns me because I have no cell service in this wing and could barely get a signal in the TCU. My goal today is to get up in my walker and shuffle as far as I can. It won't be easy but I refuse to give up. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Gimpy Monster


You can do it!


Best wishes, on your recovery. Hope you get some
of your old self back.
-
.

Old self my ass, I wanna get some of my young self back. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Ancient Monster

On 10/8/2015 8:00 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 6:47:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Best wishes, on your recovery. Hope you get some
of your old self back.
-
.

Old self my ass, I wanna get some of my young self back. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Ancient Monster


Dear sir, we are pleased to report that your
cantankerous blood levels are back to normal.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

[snippperth]

Not sure if this is a new thread or an oldie that's resurfaced.
Usenet, espcially with the postings from Google, ain't
very reliable.

Anyway, just in case it's still relevant:

The original poster (at least as per one of the responses)
doesn't have cellular service but does have good
wireless internet.

So... one option: Many of the "cellular phone networks"
(in quotes because... bear with me) work with phones
that can run with the cellular radio signal, BUT/AND
can ALSO hook up via WiFi.

In the latter case they send their "telephone" signal
over to the WiFi base, then through the internet,
and over to the cellular company's "switch". From there
it's handled exactly the same as a regular cellular call.

Check your phone/call your carrier and see if that's
an option.

(it used to be just Omnipoint with their "UMA" units,
but now plenty of others do as well).


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

"Don Y" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Ditto for hating phones. I don't think I would use an iPhone for
anything that I can't already do with a PDA -- just more horses under
the hood!

Are you really sure you know enough about the newest iPhones to make such a
statement? With 128Gb of memory, fingerprint sensors, variable pressure
touch sensors and a world of peripherals I can't imagine a PDA keeping up
(do people really use those anymore? - I thought they had pretty much died
out with the Apple Newton g ?)

For what I am interested in doing next (telemedicine) I don't think very
many PDAs come equipped with all the bio, motion and position sensors built
into the iPhone. Plus they don't fit so easily in your pocket. I like the
idea of being able to simple spec HW: "You need at least an iPhone six to
run my apps" and I am done specifying. It's really just a variation of the
KISS principle: "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"

The IOS software has proved to be more resilent against hacking than Windows
because of the tight control Apple exercises over product design and
production. Apple is the ONLY cell phone maker that makes any significant
profit so they must be doing something right to keep such a powerful lead
over their competitors. The secret, according the to the article I posted
elsewhere, is that they are not only a status symbol, they are also
incredibly functional.

If you knew how much I used to despise Apple, you'd know this is quite a
change in my thinking. However it's Apple's "closed shop" that confers a
lot of advantages in today's modern virus/hack ridden world.

The iPhone platform has to be one of the most stable in the world because of
the control Apple exerts over design and implementation. That's important
to me as a developer because I see what happens in the Windows, Android and
browser world. So many variations in software, firmware, OS's, peripherals
and more. In that environment a developer could spend a LOT of time just
addressing all the little incompatibility quirks. Those quirks are bound to
crop up in a platform comprised of so many pieces developed and built by so
many different corporations and programmers.

BTDT and frankly, I want to develop new ideas, not fix someone else's
problems. As they said so succinctly in Aliens: "Is this a stand-up fight
or a bug-hunt?" Obviously I like the stand-up fight better.

--
Bobby G.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 10/01/2015 09:30 AM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

We had a few with the old AT form factor that had a few embellishments.
You definitely didn't want to put the tin back on.

One of the neatest clone cases I had was hinged so that you could just pop
open the hood to swap cards, change DIP settings, etc. One day I opened it
forgetting I had a $500 Seagate 40MB drive on it which I heard sliding along
the top on its way to the concrete floor. Thunk. Turn out to be not
practical because it leaked a ton of RF. But the clones didn't have to be
FCC certified like the real deals.

Vapor phase cooling, that's where it's at. It wasn't a computer but the
first company I worked for made industrial dielectric preheaters for the
plastics industry. The largest model was 15KW. Then there was the chief
engineer's pet project. He wanted to squeeze 50KW out of a big Eimac
triode and figured vapor phase was the way to go. The condenser had a
striking resemblance to a Falcon radiator. What could go wrong with a
50KW Colpitts oscillator / steam kettle?

Yeah, what? (-:

Hey, even I am considering getting an iPhone because I was unimpressed
by
the Android "industry's" reaction to the StageFright bug. It also
torques
me up to see that every damn version of Android is slightly different.

I wasn't even thinking about the iPhones, just the Apple
desktop/laptops. My phone technology is stuck at the $19.95 LG flip
phone level.

Hey, that's what I've carried (unactivated, no less) for years and years.
Now I think telemedicine will be taking off and the iPhone is the natural
platform. There's just too much chaos in the Android phone world although
it often results in progress that Apple will either have to pay, steal or
litigate (are the last two really different?) to acquire.

I did get an Android tablet when the company decided we needed a tablet
product. As a developer I can attest Google throws a few curves with
every new release. Fortunately I can still build and run the app on my
old 4.0 and it mostly works. From our viewpoint, Android is much handier
since we can just load up the apk and never go anywhere near the Google
store.

I was scanning through the Android Apps store on Amazon looking for a good
barcode scanner app and it's a little scary. Lots of bad reviews that
accuse app makers of "stealing" personal data. Even the Apple Apps store
got a load of bad apps. So how DO you tell which apps to trust?

Apple controls their whole eco-system and generally delivers a more
uniform
experience. When the StageFright bug was found, Google, Samsung and
others
appeared to stall, pointing fingers at others while trying to decide who
should fix what. Apple just mostly fixes the stuff without the
corporate
drama.

That definitely helps.

For telemed apps, data security will be a very important consideration
because of the various privacy laws. Oddly enough, the initial research
shows a serious problem outside of anything I can do (within fiscal reason)
to repair. There still is no universal data exchange possible because each
and every different medical practice software package uses different data
elements and names. Different field sizes, types, etc. The promise of
electronic health records actually saving time and money has, IMHO, been
completed thwarted by the lack of interchange standards. Initiatives are
afoot, however . . . I once worked on the committee that developed the
National Drug Code (NDC) because pharma companies were forever changing
their formulations and packaging, partly in an effort to defraud DoD by
providing what look like the same dosage, quantity and price as last time
but only the price stayed the same. The other two decreased, sometimes
substantially, often without adequate notice.

The reason is partly snob appeal but it's also because Apples seem to be
very well-liked by the people that use them. Far more so than Android
users
like their phones.

I hear a lot of Android users cursing at their phones. At least once a day.
I don't think the iPhone is really so much better, but people who have paid
that much for them have a cognitive dissonance issue going: "If I paid SO
much for this damn phone, it's GOT to be good!"

They do have a dedicated customer base. The only Apple product I've ever
owned is an iShuffle my boss gave out on Christmas. I didn't really
appreciate the iTunes part of it. I have nothing against Apple but
nobody ever wanted to pay me to develop Apple software. The closest I
ever got was one DoD project where there were some of the 1st gen Macs.
They were crap but they did meet the TEMPEST requirements.\

I always wondered how Macs got certified but perhaps that's another hidden
benefit of Apple's closed eco-system. I worked in a place where the
classified PC room had active network jacks on the wall and network cards in
the PC. I think the deal was as long as they were not actually connected,
it was OK. It took the entire Federal data world a long time to realize
that you not only have to order diskless workstations, you have to order
ones without USB, network or serial ports, either. Chelsea Manning and
Edward Snowden explained it to them.

As for politics, my wife, a retired Army colonel somewhere to the right
of
Atilla the Hun, loves her iPhone. I've always been on the PC/clone side
of
the Apple/Wintel war, but I will probably end up getting an iPhone. If
it's
going to become the hub of my computer operations, I want it to come
from a
company that's on the ball.

I pretty much hate phones in general. I guess an iPhone could be okay if
I never had to talk on it.

Oh, I'll bet if you starting banging on one, especially with an expert
around to explain all the "secret squirrel" gestures and features, and
you'll change your mind. I know I did when I dictated my first e-mail and
it was nearly flawless. We've come a long way, baby, from the Sperry-Univac
1100 I learned to program on. It was liquid cooled, IIRC and was about
1/000 the machine an iPhone is, computing-wise.

--
Bobby G.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 10/01/2015 09:16 PM, Don Y wrote:
Apple products remind me too much of B&O. Too much emphasis on "glitz"
over function. My iPods are tedious to use -- a *mechanical* wheel
(or even a four way navigation bar) would be far more reliable as
an input device than the capacitive "dial" that it employs. Try
using it without WATCHING what you are doing! Ditto for every other
Apple product.

The iShuffle is so simple it isn't difficult to use. However the MP3
players I use most often are Sansas. Plug them into the USB port and
they look like any other mass storage device. iirc I had to use iTunes
to load the iShuffle and iTunes has to be the most complicated,
counter-intuitive software I've ever used.

Amazon was selling a whole busload of refurbed Sansa Clips. What a great
deal and they do flawless voice recording, too. I think they top out with a
32Gb TF card (some have 4 some have 8GB of internal memory). Great audio
quality, built-in FM radio, good search and sort capabilities and only one
fatal flaw. The batteries are soldered in and HELL to replace when they
day. All but one of the refurbs have performed as well as new and I was
paying only $20 each for them.

While lots of people **** and moan about how "bad" things are, when I look
at my wall of CDs and realize that it all fits on one little Sansa Clip I
think "wow" - what a brave new world we live in. Same with phones and
tablets that take instant movies and photos, some with amazing quality (new
iPhones do 4K video). For a guy that ran a color darkroom for decades, it's
an unbelievable leap forward.

Same with TVs where you can now get resolution that looks just like a
projected Kodachrome 25 slide. We've lived through some amazing times and
progress. My old LTD with a 429 got 7 miles to the gallon but it was worth
every drop when you floored it.

--
Bobby G.

"Don Y" wrote in message

MS did something similar with the Zune -- which *could* have
been an interesting device (but for being locked into MS's little world).

Dunno if you ever watch "Robot Chicken" but they spoofed Zune in a segment
about how Steve Jobs made so much preceding technology obsolete. In the
end, the Zune Man begs Steve to make his execution quick but Jobs replies "I
wouldn't waste a bullet on you."

The Zune lingered on for an embarrassing long time. At least when Amazon's
"Fire Phone" tanked, they dragged the corpse off the battlefield pretty
quickly.

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:08:17 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 10/01/2015 09:30 AM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

We had a few with the old AT form factor that had a few embellishments.
You definitely didn't want to put the tin back on.

One of the neatest clone cases I had was hinged so that you could just pop
open the hood to swap cards, change DIP settings, etc. One day I opened it
forgetting I had a $500 Seagate 40MB drive on it which I heard sliding along
the top on its way to the concrete floor. Thunk. Turn out to be not
practical because it leaked a ton of RF. But the clones didn't have to be
FCC certified like the real deals.

Actually, by law they did. Just another law that was selectively
ignored.

Vapor phase cooling, that's where it's at. It wasn't a computer but the
first company I worked for made industrial dielectric preheaters for the
plastics industry. The largest model was 15KW. Then there was the chief
engineer's pet project. He wanted to squeeze 50KW out of a big Eimac
triode and figured vapor phase was the way to go. The condenser had a
striking resemblance to a Falcon radiator. What could go wrong with a
50KW Colpitts oscillator / steam kettle?

Yeah, what? (-:

Hey, even I am considering getting an iPhone because I was unimpressed
by
the Android "industry's" reaction to the StageFright bug. It also
torques
me up to see that every damn version of Android is slightly different.

I wasn't even thinking about the iPhones, just the Apple
desktop/laptops. My phone technology is stuck at the $19.95 LG flip
phone level.

Hey, that's what I've carried (unactivated, no less) for years and years.
Now I think telemedicine will be taking off and the iPhone is the natural
platform. There's just too much chaos in the Android phone world although
it often results in progress that Apple will either have to pay, steal or
litigate (are the last two really different?) to acquire.

I did get an Android tablet when the company decided we needed a tablet
product. As a developer I can attest Google throws a few curves with
every new release. Fortunately I can still build and run the app on my
old 4.0 and it mostly works. From our viewpoint, Android is much handier
since we can just load up the apk and never go anywhere near the Google
store.

I was scanning through the Android Apps store on Amazon looking for a good
barcode scanner app and it's a little scary. Lots of bad reviews that
accuse app makers of "stealing" personal data. Even the Apple Apps store
got a load of bad apps. So how DO you tell which apps to trust?

Apple controls their whole eco-system and generally delivers a more
uniform
experience. When the StageFright bug was found, Google, Samsung and
others
appeared to stall, pointing fingers at others while trying to decide who
should fix what. Apple just mostly fixes the stuff without the
corporate
drama.

That definitely helps.

For telemed apps, data security will be a very important consideration
because of the various privacy laws. Oddly enough, the initial research
shows a serious problem outside of anything I can do (within fiscal reason)
to repair. There still is no universal data exchange possible because each
and every different medical practice software package uses different data
elements and names. Different field sizes, types, etc. The promise of
electronic health records actually saving time and money has, IMHO, been
completed thwarted by the lack of interchange standards. Initiatives are
afoot, however . . . I once worked on the committee that developed the
National Drug Code (NDC) because pharma companies were forever changing
their formulations and packaging, partly in an effort to defraud DoD by
providing what look like the same dosage, quantity and price as last time
but only the price stayed the same. The other two decreased, sometimes
substantially, often without adequate notice.

The reason is partly snob appeal but it's also because Apples seem to be
very well-liked by the people that use them. Far more so than Android
users
like their phones.

I hear a lot of Android users cursing at their phones. At least once a day.
I don't think the iPhone is really so much better, but people who have paid
that much for them have a cognitive dissonance issue going: "If I paid SO
much for this damn phone, it's GOT to be good!"

They do have a dedicated customer base. The only Apple product I've ever
owned is an iShuffle my boss gave out on Christmas. I didn't really
appreciate the iTunes part of it. I have nothing against Apple but
nobody ever wanted to pay me to develop Apple software. The closest I
ever got was one DoD project where there were some of the 1st gen Macs.
They were crap but they did meet the TEMPEST requirements.\

I always wondered how Macs got certified but perhaps that's another hidden
benefit of Apple's closed eco-system. I worked in a place where the
classified PC room had active network jacks on the wall and network cards in
the PC. I think the deal was as long as they were not actually connected,
it was OK. It took the entire Federal data world a long time to realize
that you not only have to order diskless workstations, you have to order
ones without USB, network or serial ports, either. Chelsea Manning and
Edward Snowden explained it to them.

As for politics, my wife, a retired Army colonel somewhere to the right
of
Atilla the Hun, loves her iPhone. I've always been on the PC/clone side
of
the Apple/Wintel war, but I will probably end up getting an iPhone. If
it's
going to become the hub of my computer operations, I want it to come
from a
company that's on the ball.

I pretty much hate phones in general. I guess an iPhone could be okay if
I never had to talk on it.

Oh, I'll bet if you starting banging on one, especially with an expert
around to explain all the "secret squirrel" gestures and features, and
you'll change your mind. I know I did when I dictated my first e-mail and
it was nearly flawless. We've come a long way, baby, from the Sperry-Univac
1100 I learned to program on. It was liquid cooled, IIRC and was about
1/000 the machine an iPhone is, computing-wise.

Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 6:47:51 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/8/2015 11:07 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 10/8/2015 5:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was moved out of the TCU to another wing of the facility yesterday and I'm kind of worn out and in a lot of pain from the exertion of moving. The new room is larger but there was no phone or TV. My roommates sister and nephew brought one of his TV's from home but I don't care about TV because I have my computer but no phone concerns me because I have no cell service in this wing and could barely get a signal in the TCU. My goal today is to get up in my walker and shuffle as far as I can. It won't be easy but I refuse to give up. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Gimpy Monster


You can do it!


Best wishes, on your recovery. Hope you get some
of your old self back.
-
.

Old self my ass, I wanna get some of my young self back. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Ancient Monster

Any how you are moving positive. Never lose will to fight.
When I was being knocked off getting ready for x-plant operation
I was praying "God I tried to do my best, now it's your turn"
When I came around, it was all over, I felt so cold, I was asking
for more warm blankets. That was 20 years ago already. I am still
doing good. Thanksgiving long week end up here. Kids gone out of town
for short trips. Just two of us will eat turkey dinner. Gorgeous
weather. Thanks to El Nino. Age is state of mind. I don't think I am
old at 75.

Robert Green wrote:
"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 10/01/2015 09:16 PM, Don Y wrote:



Same with TVs where you can now get resolution that looks just like a
projected Kodachrome 25 slide. We've lived through some amazing times and
progress. My old LTD with a 429 got 7 miles to the gallon but it was worth
every drop when you floored it.

Yes, indeed we're. From vacuum tubes to Nano-tech. Living thru with them
yet.

On 10/9/2015 3:50 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Age is state of mind. I don't think I am old at 75.

To *some* extent, it's a state of mind. But, sadly, many people
aren't fortunate enough to have a body that will afford them
that discretion.

I *do* think "old" has moved to a higher absolute age -- probably
a consequence of medical advances, also better education as to the
consequences of "unhealthy living" (whatever THAT is).

I can recall how *old* my grandparents were when I was a young
kid. And, how "young" (relatively speaking) they died.

Now, I know many people who are already older than they *were*
who are still very alert, spry, active, etc.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

One of the neatest clone cases I had was hinged so that you could just
pop
open the hood to swap cards, change DIP settings, etc. One day I opened
it
forgetting I had a $500 Seagate 40MB drive on it which I heard sliding
along
the top on its way to the concrete floor. Thunk. Turned out to be not
practical because it leaked a ton of RF. But the clones didn't have to
be
FCC certified like the real deals.

Actually, by law they did. Just another law that was selectively
ignored.

The loophole, IIRC, was that I was buying parts and assembling them, and
using them myself, not selling them to end-users as completed machines. So
I wasn't technically breaking the law. At least that's what my vendor said
when I asked him why he sold only components, not finished machines.

I always had to have at least three machines up and running when I was
developing and testing software so I was always building the latest and
greatest. I still have most of them lining a wall in the basement. It was
interesting to watch the industry mature. Eventually the holes in cases
actually lined up with the holes in the motherboards.

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 21:41:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

One of the neatest clone cases I had was hinged so that you could just
pop
open the hood to swap cards, change DIP settings, etc. One day I opened
it
forgetting I had a $500 Seagate 40MB drive on it which I heard sliding
along
the top on its way to the concrete floor. Thunk. Turned out to be not
practical because it leaked a ton of RF. But the clones didn't have to
be
FCC certified like the real deals.

Actually, by law they did. Just another law that was selectively
ignored.

The loophole, IIRC, was that I was buying parts and assembling them, and
using them myself, not selling them to end-users as completed machines. So
I wasn't technically breaking the law. At least that's what my vendor said
when I asked him why he sold only components, not finished machines.

I always had to have at least three machines up and running when I was
developing and testing software so I was always building the latest and
greatest. I still have most of them lining a wall in the basement. It was
interesting to watch the industry mature. Eventually the holes in cases
actually lined up with the holes in the motherboards.
Actually, to LEGALLY sell the case, the case had to be FCC approved.
So did the power supply, and the motherboard, and the hard drive
controller, and the video card, etc.

And even a system assembled from ALL fcc certified parts could not
LEGALLY be sold, because the whole system needed to be approved. EVERY
combination a company wanted to sell nneeded to be tested and
approved.
I know, because the company I was part of for 5 years spent 10s of
thousands of dollars getting the systems we built approved - and then
on top of that we spent another hundred grand or more getting ISO9000
certification so we could sell to government agencies.

The idiot MBA who "took over" the company started substituting parts
on builds to "save money" - rendering the DOC (canadian) and CSA
certifications void -------.

On 10/09/2015 11:08 AM, Robert Green wrote:
I always wondered how Macs got certified but perhaps that's another hidden
benefit of Apple's closed eco-system. I worked in a place where the
classified PC room had active network jacks on the wall and network cards in
the PC. I think the deal was as long as they were not actually connected,
it was OK. It took the entire Federal data world a long time to realize
that you not only have to order diskless workstations, you have to order
ones without USB, network or serial ports, either. Chelsea Manning and
Edward Snowden explained it to them.

Back then if the IBM CE had to have access to the secure area we had to
remove the printer ribbons just in case he was a Russkie spy with a lot
of time on his hands to try to patch together the ribbon strikes.

iirc, the Iranians learned if you let people with thumb drives near your
air-gapped system your centrifuges tend to rev up to 9 million rpm and
go boom.

On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:11:39 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 10/09/2015 11:08 AM, Robert Green wrote:
I always wondered how Macs got certified but perhaps that's another hidden
benefit of Apple's closed eco-system. I worked in a place where the
classified PC room had active network jacks on the wall and network cards in
the PC. I think the deal was as long as they were not actually connected,
it was OK. It took the entire Federal data world a long time to realize
that you not only have to order diskless workstations, you have to order
ones without USB, network or serial ports, either. Chelsea Manning and
Edward Snowden explained it to them.

Back then if the IBM CE had to have access to the secure area we had to
remove the printer ribbons just in case he was a Russkie spy with a lot
of time on his hands to try to patch together the ribbon strikes.

iirc, the Iranians learned if you let people with thumb drives near your
air-gapped system your centrifuges tend to rev up to 9 million rpm and
go boom.

I have to wonder about any of our military equipment that uses Chinese made computer chips. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Chip Monster

Robert Green posted for all of us...


Now I think telemedicine will be taking off and the iPhone is the natural
platform.


That is already extensively in use by the VA don't know the platform. I
wonder if a "concierge" doc would have more info.

--
Tekkie

"rbowman" wrote in message
On 10/09/2015 11:08 AM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

It took the entire Federal data world a long time to realize
that you not only have to order diskless workstations, you have to order
ones without USB, network or serial ports, either. Chelsea Manning and
Edward Snowden explained it to them.

Back then if the IBM CE had to have access to the secure area we had to
remove the printer ribbons just in case he was a Russkie spy with a lot
of time on his hands to try to patch together the ribbon strikes.

As I recall the Sovs built a device that allowed them to drop a used IBM
Selectric ribbon in the machine and get a printout of everything that had
been typed. The only problem is that spaces weren't recorded on the ribbon
and had to be guessed at.

Soinalineoftypelikethisyouhadtofigureoutwheretoput thespaces.

iirc, the Iranians learned if you let people with thumb drives near your
air-gapped system your centrifuges tend to rev up to 9 million rpm and
go boom.

The Sovs learned something like that when one of their oil refineries
exploded after they had stolen refinery control software that had been
specially modified by the CIA to allow one of the holding tanks to be stoked
to an 'impossible to contain' pressure. It was a huge explosion.

I saw a piece about how easy it is to get a company employee to insert a
compromised CD or USB stick into the company's network. The people running
the test just left them in sealed envelopes around the building at tables
and in the restrooms that were marked: "Salary information for Company X
executives."

Nearly ALL CDs and USB sticks so marked found their way to the company's
network. It was well above 90%. Such information was apparently just too
much for curious minds to ignore given the way some companies treat their
exec salaries like State Secrets. My wife has to take classes every year
now about how to recognize social engineering attacks because they have been
used so successfully. It's thought the recent huge breach that exposed the
personal data of so many Federal workers began as a social engineering
attack.

The game just keeps goingm, though. It turns out that when they closed off
the USB ports, snoopers just inserted keystroke recorders and picked them up
later.

I'm always amazed at how many PCs I come across in the business and medical
world that are incredible insecure and vulnerable to all sorts of attack
vectors. I have to overcome my temptation to unplug card readers, printer
ports, network ports, etc. Most PCs are not designed to offer any way to
lock down input and output cables. I suspect somewhere in the country at
any given time, a lot of information is being siphoned off by skimmers,
recorders and various forms of vampire taps.

Speaking of recovering things from carbon ribbons, my Brother Fax uses a
huge, page-wide roll of carbon film upon which every fax ever sent or
received is immortalized in negative form on the ribbon. No (not very)
complex reconstruction of keystrokes is required. Just holding the ribbon
to the light will do.

--
Bobby G.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message newsDXRx.7

We've lived through some amazing times and
progress. My old LTD with a 429 got 7 miles to the gallon but it was
worth
every drop when you floored it.

Yes, indeed we're. From vacuum tubes to Nano-tech. Living thru with them
yet.

I really can't remember the world before Google and the Internet. Where did
we look things up? I know I used to go to the library at least once a week
before the Internet and I haven't been back in years.

Today I bought a little body cam. It's a clip on camera that records in HD
to a 32Gb micro SD card that makes very professional looking videos and it's
no bigger than my thumb. I remember the summer I interned for WABC TV that
the cameras we used were the size of cinder blocks and weighed nearly as
much and they couldn't even record in HD.

That's progress in my book!

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 21:41:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:
wrote in message

stuff snipped
It was interesting to watch the industry mature.
Eventually the holes in cases
actually lined up with the holes in the motherboards.
Actually, to LEGALLY sell the case, the case had to be FCC approved.
So did the power supply, and the motherboard, and the hard drive
controller, and the video card, etc.

I never saw FCC certifications on anything but parts that were clearly used
for RF transmission or attachment to the POTS lines.

And even a system assembled from ALL fcc certified parts could not
LEGALLY be sold, because the whole system needed to be approved. EVERY
combination a company wanted to sell nneeded to be tested and
approved.
I know, because the company I was part of for 5 years spent 10s of
thousands of dollars getting the systems we built approved - and then
on top of that we spent another hundred grand or more getting ISO9000
certification so we could sell to government agencies.

So in your case, it's the buyers that really ran the show and who probably
wouldn't have bought your machines without certification. Lots of customers
weren't so picky.

For me the simple equation was that selling clones them made it a business
but assembling them for personal use made me a hobbyist.

Besides, in those days of people using illegal amplifiers on their CB
radios, it was clear the FCC didn't (and probably still doesn't) have the
resources to investigate, fine and confiscate the illegally boosted CB
radios. So they weren't going after clone builders like me and IIRC, they
didn't go after ANY clone makers that I ever heard of.

The same clone builders around the DC area advertised for years and years
and only one, the guy I got my parts from, didn't sell assembled machines
for the reasons you mentioned. But he did always have a line on the latest
and greatest video card.

I find it amusing how much progress was made in the PC world because of
gamers and overclockers. I knew gamers that got the new, latest and
greatest video cards every few months and even brand new PC's when the new
video cards required a new type of slot their machines lacked.

The idiot MBA who "took over" the company started substituting parts
on builds to "save money" - rendering the DOC (canadian) and CSA
certifications void -------.

That's called "leadership" and your MBA was leading your company to the
promised land of Bankruptcy just east of the River Jordan. (-"

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:16:18 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 21:41:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:
wrote in message

stuff snipped
It was interesting to watch the industry mature.
Eventually the holes in cases
actually lined up with the holes in the motherboards.
Actually, to LEGALLY sell the case, the case had to be FCC approved.
So did the power supply, and the motherboard, and the hard drive
controller, and the video card, etc.

I never saw FCC certifications on anything but parts that were clearly used
for RF transmission or attachment to the POTS lines.


Used to be FCC or DOC on all computer compnents. I've got CD drives
with FCC certs on them
I haven't built a clone in almost 10 years, and it.s been 26 years
since I was in the computer "manufacturing" business.
And even a system assembled from ALL fcc certified parts could not
LEGALLY be sold, because the whole system needed to be approved. EVERY
combination a company wanted to sell nneeded to be tested and
approved.
I know, because the company I was part of for 5 years spent 10s of
thousands of dollars getting the systems we built approved - and then
on top of that we spent another hundred grand or more getting ISO9000
certification so we could sell to government agencies.

So in your case, it's the buyers that really ran the show and who probably
wouldn't have bought your machines without certification. Lots of customers
weren't so picky.

For me the simple equation was that selling clones them made it a business
but assembling them for personal use made me a hobbyist.

Besides, in those days of people using illegal amplifiers on their CB
radios, it was clear the FCC didn't (and probably still doesn't) have the
resources to investigate, fine and confiscate the illegally boosted CB
radios. So they weren't going after clone builders like me and IIRC, they
didn't go after ANY clone makers that I ever heard of.

The same clone builders around the DC area advertised for years and years
and only one, the guy I got my parts from, didn't sell assembled machines
for the reasons you mentioned. But he did always have a line on the latest
and greatest video card.

I find it amusing how much progress was made in the PC world because of
gamers and overclockers. I knew gamers that got the new, latest and
greatest video cards every few months and even brand new PC's when the new
video cards required a new type of slot their machines lacked.

The idiot MBA who "took over" the company started substituting parts
on builds to "save money" - rendering the DOC (canadian) and CSA
certifications void -------.

That's called "leadership" and your MBA was leading your company to the
promised land of Bankruptcy just east of the River Jordan. (-"

On 10/10/2015 06:02 PM, Robert Green wrote:
I really can't remember the world before Google and the Internet. Where did
we look things up? I know I used to go to the library at least once a week
before the Internet and I haven't been back in years.

I still hit the library regularly to pick up mind rot but I haven't done
any serious researching there in years unless I was bumming the wifi.

I take that back. Last week I was looking for a book by Celine. I was
having a senior moment and couldn't come up with a first name. A search
of the catalog turned up about 40 pages of Celine Dion who I was pretty
sure wasn't who I was looking for. So I wandered over to the reference
section and eventually found an encyclopedia of literature that soon
informed me I was looking for Louis-Ferdinand, the pen name of Louis
Destouches. Back to the catalog search. No Louis-Ferdinand in the entire
system so I bought the damn thing from Amazon. They only had the one I
wanted in paperback, not Kindle, so I had to wait two days for it.

It's not only looking things up, it's getting things. I try to buy local
but this town isn't a huge market and the merchants can't afford to have
every odd gadget in stock. I've even had people tell me 'No we don't
have so and so but we can order it. Or you probably can use your
computer just as well as we can.' In one case, I was trying to buy a car
radio for a new model. They couldn't come up with a dash kit even after
I gave them the part number. Back to Amazon, and I had the dash kit and
radio in a couple of days. Then there was the web site with photos and
detailed instructions on how to rip apart a Toyota dash to install the
radio.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Any way I never put him in any kinda jam
on technical issues causing customer irritation.

There's nothing more important than keeping the customer satisfied. Even if
you've got a jerk of a boss that doesn't understand how important customer
satisfaction is, you can't lose sight of it. I had a boss who inherited me
(didn't hire me and came along long after I was hired) and really worked
hard to get me to leave.

Fortunately one of my clients knew his direct supervisor and told him how
happy they were with my work. I had converted a system of nearly 100 complex
Lotus spreadsheets to dBaseIII database that didn't mix data with formulas.

In huge spreadsheets people were always inserting rows and columns and
deleting or seriously compromising formulas linked to those cells. I don't
think a single sheet came with any sort of comments or documentation. It
took quite some time to figure out what was happening. It had evolved over
5 years and the original "designers" were nowhere to be found.

Converting spreadsheet "systems" to databases was a lucrative business for a
long time because so many small companies started out using spreadsheets
when they should have set up databases. They all reached a point where the
puny PCs of the time just ran out of memory. That spurred a lot of people
to change over from Lotus 123 to dBaseIII.

Then dBaseIV came out, got killed by FoxPro which was eventually chopped up,
folded into Access and killed. *Despite* MS's frequent promises to FoxPro
user groups not to kill it. I still have quite a few FoxPro installations
still running smoothly.

--
Bobby G.

On 10/10/2015 7:40 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 10/10/2015 06:02 PM, Robert Green wrote:
I really can't remember the world before Google and the Internet. Where did
we look things up? I know I used to go to the library at least once a week
before the Internet and I haven't been back in years.

I still hit the library regularly to pick up mind rot but I haven't done any
serious researching there in years unless I was bumming the wifi.

I use the public library:
- as a source for "free" rental DVD's
(we don't watch broadcast/CATV; just "movies" or "series" off DVD)
- reference city/county data
(researching property taxes, etc.)
- reference texts available via ILL
(some titles: _Pai Gow Poker_, _From text to speech: The MITalk System_)
- research papers usually only available through "subscription" services
("A Simple Method of Computing the Input Quantization and Multiplication
Roundoff Errors in a Digital Filter")
- scant few titles that I'd never want to have to keep on my own shelves
(we've been actively ridding ourselves of books/paper for the past 20
years -- let the *library* keep a copy of the latest NEC, CRC, etc.)

"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 10/5/2015 7:14 PM, Robert Green wrote:

The fact that Excel (unprotected) buried 123 tells us something about
people's tolerance for copy-protected software that could fail them at
the
worst time possible - after a network crash. We bought licenses for
every
seat but even so, we could NOT afford to spend the inordinate amount of
time
we did trying to restore 123 from a tape backup of the HD.

No, Excel buried Lotus because MS marketed/bundled it far more
aggressively. Why did MSWord bury WordPerfect?

Lots of people think it was marketing BUT others feel differently:

But another reader countered with a chronology of WordPerfect's
self-inflicted wounds. "Frankly, WinWord 2.x was a great program, well ahead
of its time, especially if you ran it on Windows 3.0/3.0a as opposed to
3.1x. WordPerfect 5.1 for Windows (Q4-1991) was a dismal failure -- totally
unstable, not feature-laden, and it even used a DOS-based installation
program! WordPerfect 5.2 (Q1-1992) was a massive bug-fix, albeit small &
fast. WordPerfect 6.0 (Q4-1993) was another buggy piece of crap, but it
showed potential. Only when WordPerfect 6.0a (April, 1994) came out was
there something worthwhile on the Windows front. By mid-1994, 2 1/2 years
after the first version of WordPerfect for Windows came out, was there
something reasonably stable. But by then, the damage was done and MS-Office
4.2/4.3 was available." source:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/263...go-wrong-.html

a.. In 1990, Microsoft started selling Microsoft Office, a suite that
combined the very popular Excel with Word and PowerPoint. Anyone who wanted
Excel (and lots of people did) could get Word for only a little bit more
money.
a.. WordPerfect was popular because it supported so many printers. Its huge
driver library was a "moat" that prevented competitors from displacing it.
But once Microsoft Windows became popular, printer manufacturers began
creating drivers for Windows and its driver library grew faster. Source:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Micros...ut-WordPerfect

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:38:26 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 10/5/2015 7:14 PM, Robert Green wrote:

The fact that Excel (unprotected) buried 123 tells us something about
people's tolerance for copy-protected software that could fail them at
the
worst time possible - after a network crash. We bought licenses for
every
seat but even so, we could NOT afford to spend the inordinate amount of
time
we did trying to restore 123 from a tape backup of the HD.

No, Excel buried Lotus because MS marketed/bundled it far more
aggressively. Why did MSWord bury WordPerfect?

Lots of people think it was marketing BUT others feel differently:

But another reader countered with a chronology of WordPerfect's
self-inflicted wounds. "Frankly, WinWord 2.x was a great program, well ahead
of its time, especially if you ran it on Windows 3.0/3.0a as opposed to
3.1x. WordPerfect 5.1 for Windows (Q4-1991) was a dismal failure -- totally
unstable, not feature-laden, and it even used a DOS-based installation
program! WordPerfect 5.2 (Q1-1992) was a massive bug-fix, albeit small &
fast. WordPerfect 6.0 (Q4-1993) was another buggy piece of crap, but it
showed potential. Only when WordPerfect 6.0a (April, 1994) came out was
there something worthwhile on the Windows front. By mid-1994, 2 1/2 years
after the first version of WordPerfect for Windows came out, was there
something reasonably stable. But by then, the damage was done and MS-Office
4.2/4.3 was available." source:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/263...go-wrong-.html

a.. In 1990, Microsoft started selling Microsoft Office, a suite that
combined the very popular Excel with Word and PowerPoint. Anyone who wanted
Excel (and lots of people did) could get Word for only a little bit more
money.
a.. WordPerfect was popular because it supported so many printers. Its huge
driver library was a "moat" that prevented competitors from displacing it.
But once Microsoft Windows became popular, printer manufacturers began
creating drivers for Windows and its driver library grew faster. Source:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Micros...ut-WordPerfect
We just called it "WORD IMPERFECT" and "DATA IMPERFECT" was even
worse!!!

wrote in message
wrote:

stuff snipped

I never saw FCC certifications on anything but parts that were clearly
used
for RF transmission or attachment to the POTS lines.


Used to be FCC or DOC on all computer compnents. I've got CD drives
with FCC certs on them
I haven't built a clone in almost 10 years, and it.s been 26 years
since I was in the computer "manufacturing" business.

It's been a while for me too. I switched to all laptops because a) the
power savings were substantial and b) the laptops are all the same
configuration meaning I can take a Ghost backup from a dead laptop and
easily reload it onto another machine. When I was using clones, each was
subtly different from the other making restores to anything but the drive
the backup was made on would fail.

I'll be going through all my old XT/AT parts to trash them this week so I
will be able to review which items have FCC certs. I would suspect that
hard drives, CDs and other items from name manufacturers have FCC IDs but I
would be surprised if I see their mark on anything else.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

IIRC, the ultimate test of a PC's compatibility was:

"Can it run flight simulator?"
We has 20Mhz PCs using Harris chips - and we built 12mhz ATs whenIBM
was doing good to get 8 - and soon had 24s running stable, and selling
for less than "Big Blue" sold their 8.
We also had CDRom long before IBM did - as well as providing larger
hard drives. Lots of features that pushed "big Blue" ahead. The Tier 2
mfgs were also technically "clones" - including AST, Packard Bell,
Compaq, HP, Sanyo, etc.

All Trillium clones passed ALL compatability tests.

That's a good point. Eventually there were lots of programs like MemTest
and SANDRA that could give you a pretty good idea of how compatible a clone
was likely to be. We switched from IBM to Compaq when Compaq pulled ahead
in the MHz race. Compaq machines were built like tanks. Not anymore. )-:
Thank Carly for that.

--
Bobby G.