Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:23:57 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?



A cell phone.

On 9/15/2015 8:33 AM, trader_4 wrote:
What ideas do we have for Scott?



A cell phone.


Scott's wife had a cell phone, might still have.
Running struggle to buy minutes for it. Cell phones
rely on towers, which might or might not have
backup power.

Their residential phone number comes over the
internet cable which goes dead with the power
failure. They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

The last couple power cuts, my residential phone
worked fine. And the cell phone also worked.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:45:32 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

....pointless statement because there would be no power to the phone modem.

"bob_villa" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:45:32 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

...pointless statement because there would be no power to the phone modem.

all my home telco/ISP/WIFI equipment is on a UPS.

On 09/15/2015 07:22 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
"bob_villa" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:45:32 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

...pointless statement because there would be no power to the phone modem.

all my home telco/ISP/WIFI equipment is on a UPS.

How big is your battery bank? We had a problem this summer where about
10,000 were without power for over three days. Can you operate that long
after the lights go out?

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:27:43 AM UTC-5, taxed and spent wrote:
"bob_villa" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:45:32 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

...pointless statement because there would be no power to the phone modem.

all my home telco/ISP/WIFI equipment is on a UPS.

....happy for you! ( ͡ʘ•*͜ʖ•®Í¡Ê˜)

On 09/15/2015 08:22 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
"bob_villa" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:45:32 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They also use cordless phones, which
go dead with the power failure.

...pointless statement because there would be no power to the phone modem.

all my home telco/ISP/WIFI equipment is on a UPS.



A tornado passed by here in May. Wired phone was out for several days.
UPS didn't matter. No problems with water (city has a generator).

BTW, cell phones still worked (I had Verizon and Sprint phones, so I
know those worked).

--
101 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Is reading in the bathroom considered as multi-tasking?"

On 9/15/2015 7:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.


Flags, Smoke signals, tin cans and string, bike, carrier pigeons ....
telawoman probably the fastest

On 9/15/2015 8:34 AM, Since You Axed wrote:

Flags, Smoke signals, tin cans and string, bike, carrier pigeons ....
telawoman probably the fastest

Reminds me of the old one about three
ways to communicate at the speed of light.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?


Why do you introduce the additional criteria "grid power". Scott only says
power.

It is impossible to communicate without power. Even "by foot, horse,
runner, shouting" all take power.

Scott needs to better define his question.

On 9/15/2015 8:37 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
Why do you introduce the additional criteria "grid power". Scott only says
power.

It is impossible to communicate without power. Even "by foot, horse,
runner, shouting" all take power.

Scott needs to better define his question.


That's a big picture, attention to detail
way to look at it.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:37:22 AM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?


Why do you introduce the additional criteria "grid power". Scott only says
power.

It is impossible to communicate without power. Even "by foot, horse,
runner, shouting" all take power.

Scott needs to better define his question.

+1

We don't know if without power means from a physics sense,
in which case even a cell phone or battery operated radio is out,
or if it just means when the electric utility service is out.

And then be able to communicate with whom, where are they
located and for what purpose?

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 7:23:57 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?
-


Holy crap Stormy! You knew darn well your post would bring the squirrels out of the trees.... I'm gonna go play with my nuts now. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Tree Monster

On 9/15/2015 8:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================


hilltop signal fires,
drums,
semaphore flags on hilltops,
light reflecting from mirrors on hilltops.
tin cans and string.
dry garden hose (for short distances), think of the tubes used to
communicate between decks in old ships.
pigeons

On 09/15/2015 08:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

You fire up the amateur radio transceiver in your car -- or the one at
home for which you have well-maintained standby batteries.

"When all else fails... There's Amateur Radio."

Amateur Radio was used when the cell-phone towers on top of the World
Trade Center were put out of action. Amateur Radio was used in the
search for the debris from the space shuttle that was scattered over
remote areas of Texas with no cell-phone service.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 09/15/2015 08:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

You fire up the amateur radio transceiver in your car -- or the one at
home for which you have well-maintained standby batteries.

"When all else fails... There's Amateur Radio."

Amateur Radio was used when the cell-phone towers on top of the World
Trade Center were put out of action. Amateur Radio was used in the search
for the debris from the space shuttle that was scattered over remote
areas of Texas with no cell-phone service.

Perce

CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not work on
battery for long without solar backup.

Greg

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:12:36 -0500, gregz wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 09/15/2015 08:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

You fire up the amateur radio transceiver in your car -- or the one at
home for which you have well-maintained standby batteries.

"When all else fails... There's Amateur Radio."

Amateur Radio was used when the cell-phone towers on top of the World
Trade Center were put out of action. Amateur Radio was used in the
search
for the debris from the space shuttle that was scattered over remote
areas of Texas with no cell-phone service.

Perce

CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not work
on
battery for long without solar backup.

Greg


We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On 9/16/2015 8:36 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:12:36 -0500, gregz wrote:

CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not
work on
battery for long without solar backup.

Greg


We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?


Sadly, most stores are computer operated. Need
the computer to resupply, based on computer
recorded sales.

Years ago, I heard of one family owned store doing
shopping by flash light, pad, and cash only. During
a power cut. Made sense, to me.

Last power cut, the convenience store near me had
two candles, and a very weak 2D Never Ready flash
light in the place. I chatted a few minutes, and
he didn't sell much during that time.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:24:07 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Sadly, most stores are computer operated. Need
the computer to resupply, based on computer
recorded sales.

Years ago, I heard of one family owned store doing
shopping by flash light, pad, and cash only. During
a power cut. Made sense, to me.

We maintained a lot of "point of sale" and it was always funny to
watch them try to run the store without the registers. Older workers
seem to do fine but the "kids" (up to 30 sumpin) needed a calculator,
just to make change. They were still slow and confused by the process.
The fact that nothing was priced made it even harder.
I have seen grocery stores where they had a manager just stand there
and dicker with the customer, guessing how much a cart of groceries
was worth. The customer usually had a better idea than the manager but
they usually started low.

On 09/16/2015 08:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

Last power cut, the convenience store near me had
two candles, and a very weak 2D Never Ready flash
light in the place. I chatted a few minutes, and
he didn't sell much during that time.

After Hurricane Ike, I was with a neighbour who went to Walgreen's
looking for a battery-operated radio. The only one they had took C
cells, which they were out of (and I didn't have any either). I let him
borrow one of my wind-up radios.

--
99 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." [Carl Sagan]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:36:20 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?

It is law in Florida. If they are on an evacuation route, they need
backup power.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:36:20 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?

It is law in Florida. If they are on an evacuation route, they need
backup power.

Is it the law that they have to stay open and not evacuate themselves?

On 9/16/2015 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:36:20 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?

It is law in Florida. If they are on an evacuation route, they need
backup power.


Before price gouging laws, people could charge
the fair market value for products. Gasoline
right after a hurricane? Value goes up, price
goes up. They passed the price gouging law, so
there is no incentive to install a generator.
Why drop many thousands of dollars to make a few
pennies?

And, what's the government answer? Pass more laws
to require people to do what they don't get paid
to do. Your government in action.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 09/16/2015 06:36 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

We can't even buy a candy bar at the local stores
without grid power.
Has anyone seen a backup generator at the local gas station?


I only overheard the conversation and don't know the details but during
a power outage last month the guy tried to get gas. The pumps worked but
the charge cards didn't. Of course, a true survivalist, the guy had
about as much real money in his pocket as he had gas in his car when the
lights went out.

Per rbowman:
Of course, a true survivalist, the guy had
about as much real money in his pocket as he had gas in his car when the
lights went out.

They're probably all dead by now, but 20-30 years ago in the NYC area
there were at least a few survivors of The Holocaust that had food and
about $10,000 in the trunks of their cars at all times.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 9/15/2015 11:12 PM, gregz wrote:
CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not work on
battery for long without solar backup.

Greg


Which opens the question. Suppose the ham radio repeaters
have batteries. How do those batteries get recharged?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 09/16/2015 05:59 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not
work on
battery for long without solar backup.

*Legal* CB radio equipment is by design a low-power short-range
communication facility.

Which opens the question. Suppose the ham radio repeaters
have batteries. How do those batteries get recharged?

They get charged from house current or from a generator. Of course the
batteries last only a while, depending on their capacity. I have two 6V
golf-cart batteries in series that are float-charged from house current.
I also have a generator, and I usually have two 6-gallon cans of gas for
it on hand.

I don't have solar charging capabilities, but some amateur radio
operators do.

"Field Day" is a nationwide exercise held each June, in which amateur
radio operators communicate from temporary installations in parks,
schools, etc., so there should be a pool of experienced communicators
available in emergencies.

Perce

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:00:25 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 09/16/2015 05:59 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not
work on
battery for long without solar backup.

*Legal* CB radio equipment is by design a low-power short-range
communication facility.

Which opens the question. Suppose the ham radio repeaters
have batteries. How do those batteries get recharged?

They get charged from house current or from a generator. Of course the
batteries last only a while, depending on their capacity. I have two 6V
golf-cart batteries in series that are float-charged from house current.
I also have a generator, and I usually have two 6-gallon cans of gas for
it on hand.

I don't have solar charging capabilities, but some amateur radio
operators do.

"Field Day" is a nationwide exercise held each June, in which amateur
radio operators communicate from temporary installations in parks,
schools, etc., so there should be a pool of experienced communicators
available in emergencies.

Perce


If you have a Rural King near you, it seems to be the best place to
get cheap golf cart batteries. ($60 on sale plus all of the bullspit
fees).
That is $20 less than Costco/Sam etc
They are nice deep cycle batteries for various backup projects.
I have an old cart here I use for driving around the neighborhood and
as a tractor for dragging stuff around the yard.
It also gives me a good source of DC volts in an emergency. I am still
looking for a deal on a 36v 120 inverter.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 17:59:25 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/15/2015 11:12 PM, gregz wrote:
CB radio too, batteries, solar charging. Amateur repeaters will not work on
battery for long without solar backup.

Greg


Which opens the question. Suppose the ham radio repeaters
have batteries. How do those batteries get recharged?

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

It really depends on the band you are on. The vhf stuff usually needs
a repeater to get very far because it is largely line of sight (near
the old TV frequencies) but the longer wave lengths can skip around
the world, just using the power you sent it with.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 08:23:52 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

Bear in mind, we had telegraph systems in the US 50 years before there
was a power grid. The POTS phone system seems to work fairly well when
the grid is down too.
It is only the very late 20th century systems that are so reliant on
grid power.
As another poster pointed out, radio systems can be completely
separate from all traditional infrastructure. With solar charged
batteries, they can go on indefinitely with no central infrastructure
at all. Combining radio with digital transmission could increase the
effective bandwidth far beyond the limitations of voice communication.
The only reason why we consider grid power to be absolutely essential
to communication is because it was cheap and reliable when our current
systems were developed. There are certainly alternatives.

Per :
As another poster pointed out, radio systems can be completely
separate from all traditional infrastructure. With solar charged
batteries, they can go on indefinitely with no central infrastructure
at all. Combining radio with digital transmission could increase the
effective bandwidth far beyond the limitations of voice communication.
The only reason why we consider grid power to be absolutely essential
to communication is because it was cheap and reliable when our current
systems were developed. There are certainly alternatives.

I always thought that it would be useful to have a standard for power
sources on cell phone towers, repeaters, and so-forth so that, in a
disaster, a given tower/node can be powered using the omnipresent
12-volt automobile battery.
--
Pete Cresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
Per :
As another poster pointed out, radio systems can be completely
separate from all traditional infrastructure. With solar charged
batteries, they can go on indefinitely with no central infrastructure
at all. Combining radio with digital transmission could increase the
effective bandwidth far beyond the limitations of voice communication.
The only reason why we consider grid power to be absolutely essential
to communication is because it was cheap and reliable when our current
systems were developed. There are certainly alternatives.

I always thought that it would be useful to have a standard for power
sources on cell phone towers, repeaters, and so-forth so that, in a
disaster, a given tower/node can be powered using the omnipresent
12-volt automobile battery.
--

Not enough power. The cell sites I have seen have a line voltage socket for
a temporary generator, and a transfer switch. (as well as a bank of
batteries always charged and at the ready).

I have to wonder how many generators will be available in an emergency to
power such facilities not equipped with their own dedicated generator.

On 9/15/2015 11:24 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message

I always thought that it would be useful to have a standard for power
sources on cell phone towers, repeaters, and so-forth so that, in a
disaster, a given tower/node can be powered using the omnipresent
12-volt automobile battery.
--

Not enough power. The cell sites I have seen have a line voltage socket for
a temporary generator, and a transfer switch. (as well as a bank of
batteries always charged and at the ready).

I have to wonder how many generators will be available in an emergency to
power such facilities not equipped with their own dedicated generator.


Can't remember where I read, might been here. Anyhow,
a phone company decided to save expenses by using
mobile generators, and shuttle them from cell site
to site. One of the local workers reminded them that
during ice storms, it's near to impossible to drive
any where, much less up cell phone hills to get to
the towers.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 9/15/2015 11:24 AM, taxed and spent wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message

I always thought that it would be useful to have a standard for power
sources on cell phone towers, repeaters, and so-forth so that, in a
disaster, a given tower/node can be powered using the omnipresent
12-volt automobile battery.
--

Not enough power. The cell sites I have seen have a line voltage socket
for
a temporary generator, and a transfer switch. (as well as a bank of
batteries always charged and at the ready).

I have to wonder how many generators will be available in an emergency to
power such facilities not equipped with their own dedicated generator.


Can't remember where I read, might been here. Anyhow,
a phone company decided to save expenses by using
mobile generators, and shuttle them from cell site
to site. One of the local workers reminded them that
during ice storms, it's near to impossible to drive
any where, much less up cell phone hills to get to
the towers.

Most cell towers are down in the flatlands, with the cell phones. But, a
good point.

Can't remember where I read, might been here. Anyhow,
a phone company decided to save expenses by using
mobile generators, and shuttle them from cell site
to site. One of the local workers reminded them that
during ice storms, it's near to impossible to drive
any where, much less up cell phone hills to get to
the towers.


A local ham radio club has a few repeaters co sited at friendly
cellphone tower sites.
Those with stationary diesel generators usually only have enough fuel to
last 3 days.

Steve

writes:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 08:23:52 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

First idea would be to study history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon...communications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_signal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 08:23:52 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

Aboriginal message sticks
Aboriginal sign languages
Pencil & Paper
Rumor Mill
Pony Express
Long distance runners
Psychic Mediums
Ouija Board
Voodoo

Stormin Mormon wrote:


Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

Amateur Radio powered by generator and solar power. I have
HF/VHF/UHF. We also have multiple solar powered VHF repeaters here.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
My local Weather http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KOKMUSTA4

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:23:57 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Got this from a friend:
=======================================
Chris, without power the only way that I understand
that you could communicate is by foot, horse,
bicycle, runner other than that you could shout,
maybe you can give me other Idea's.
Scott
=======================================

What ideas do we have for Scott?

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

Does anyone use CB radio anymore? I guess I could plug one of those into my generator and talk until the gas ran out. Maybe I should add a CB radio to my emergency supplies; we're right near an Interstate highway so we might be able to connect to a truck passing by.

Paul