How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz,
or both?

I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.

My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism) because USA
phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent 15.6-inch
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html

The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac", there's
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

But, we can fix that at the HP web site.

If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what Costco doesn't
have (and get free shipping).
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...&TabName=specs

0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much memory as
Costco's (4GB - 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only $20 more
than the Costco price.
1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra $140 (either
boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier re-use later).
https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...tNumber=QM4342
2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band, 2.4GHz and
5GHz or not?
3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30 (because my sis
wants that).
https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...=LV290AA%23ABA
The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).

For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an hour with the HP
sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop has both
2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.

HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n" don't have to be dual
band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2 or 4x4 just means
the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which says absolutely
nothing about the frequency.
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...or-dummies.pdf

My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 06:15:37 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz,
or both?

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

Looks at the specs. If it says 802.11 followed by:
b/g = 2.4 GHz only
b/g/n = 2.4 GHz only
a = 5 GHz only
a/b/g/n = 2.4 and 5 GHz
The key is the "a" as in 802.11a, which is 5 GHz only.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent 15.6-inch
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html

Broken link. Try:
http://reviews.costco.com/2070/100085182/hewlett-packard-hp-envy-15z-laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm
which says:
802.11b/g/n WLAN
which is 2.4 GHz only. You might want to read the reviews.

The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac", there's
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

A BlueGoof dongle can be plugged into the a USB port.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321216764033
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171217973745
Buy a few spares as I've been shipped defective receivers.

Office 2013 is usually extra. If you must have Microsoft Office, look
at Office 365 or the various Office Mutations available. Or, use free
open source software such as Libre Office or Open Office. There are
also Office alternatives:
http://www.informationweek.com/software/productivity-collaboration-apps/8-microsoft-office-alternatives/d/d-id/1320386
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/best-microsoft-office-alternatives/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010005/5-free-open-source-alternatives-to-microsoft-office.html

Still nym shifting?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 3:42:55 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Like Jeff says, the specs should say if it supports B/G or not.
If it does, then it has 2.4 ghz. The one thing that wasn't posted
was the link to the actual HP card so we could look.

I don't see a problem with getting MSFT Office Home for $140.
When I bought my HP I got the starter version of Excel and
Word for an additional fee, might have been $100. Boxed or not,
is up to you. But these PCs typically ship with a complete
backup image on a separate partition and they tell you and
encourage you with some nagging to make a further complete
backup image on CDs, from which you can also restore the whole
thing if necessary.

trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 3:42:55 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Like Jeff says, the specs should say if it supports B/G or not.
If it does, then it has 2.4 ghz. The one thing that wasn't posted
was the link to the actual HP card so we could look.

I don't see a problem with getting MSFT Office Home for $140.
When I bought my HP I got the starter version of Excel and
Word for an additional fee, might have been $100. Boxed or not,
is up to you. But these PCs typically ship with a complete
backup image on a separate partition and they tell you and
encourage you with some nagging to make a further complete
backup image on CDs, from which you can also restore the whole
thing if necessary.

Keep in mind some WiFi card in HP laptops are white listed. You can't
install(or upgrade) with any WiFi card. BIOS won't allow it. I use
OpenOffice and it is free. Don't have to use word or excel.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 11:06:16 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

OpenOffice and it is free.
Don't have to use word or excel.

You have to realize what you're saying, & that your suggestion can't work.

If you were suggesting to "me" to use openoffice or staroffice or
libreoffice or framemaker or numbers-pages-keynote or polaris office or
kingston office or wps office or any number of freeware office look-alike
apps, then your suggestion might actually make a lot of sense.

But, you can't take the average extremely non-technical grade-school
teacher, and seriously suggest they use a free office-like equivalent,
when they have enough trouble just getting used to the ribbon changing
from one Microsoft office version to another.

They complain when they have to open an office 2013 doc in office 2007,
and they fail at that, half the time, without help.

They can't even print something as simples as a protected PDF without my
help.

So, if you're suggesting that free office-look-alikes are "equivalent" to
office for such a person, then you fundamentally don't understand people.

It's just not gonna happen.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 04:56:58 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Like Jeff says, the specs should say if it supports B/G or not. If it
does, then it has 2.4 ghz. The one thing that wasn't posted was the
link to the actual HP card so we could look.

I apologize and agree.
I had posted a screen shot of all the information that HP provides:
But that's all I have.

The problem is, if I look at a DELL or Toshiba or Lenovo laptop, I'll
still have the SAME PROBLEM of figuring out whether it has 5GHz or 2.4GHz
or both, from the specs.

So, it behooves us to be able to read the specs.

From what Jeff said, all I can tell is (is this correct?):
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz only
802.11 n == 2.4GHz only?
802.11 ac == 5GHz only

Basically, if it has an "a" in the description, then it's 5GHz.
Otherwise, it's 2.4GHz.

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 12:35:07 PM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 04:56:58 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Like Jeff says, the specs should say if it supports B/G or not. If it
does, then it has 2.4 ghz. The one thing that wasn't posted was the
link to the actual HP card so we could look.

I apologize and agree.
I had posted a screen shot of all the information that HP provides:
But that's all I have.

The problem is, if I look at a DELL or Toshiba or Lenovo laptop, I'll
still have the SAME PROBLEM of figuring out whether it has 5GHz or 2.4GHz
or both, from the specs.

So, it behooves us to be able to read the specs.

From what Jeff said, all I can tell is (is this correct?):
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz only
802.11 n == 2.4GHz only?
802.11 ac == 5GHz only

Basically, if it has an "a" in the description, then it's 5GHz.
Otherwise, it's 2.4GHz.

Have it your way, you gonna buy the thing or not?

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 09:42:31 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Have it your way, you gonna buy the thing or not?

You missed the point.

I'm trying to *recommend* a laptop for a teacher who is not technical.
I started at Costco, but the Costco laptop wasn't dual band.
I went to the HP site and can't figure out if it's dual band.

If it's dual band, I'll recommend the teacher buys it.
If not, I will choose another laptop.

I don't actually care what laptop she gets.
I'm just trying to help her.

The laptop has to be about the right size & shape.
It has to be within her price range (around $500 out the door).
It has to have MS Office on it.
It has to be Windows.

Everything else, she's leaving up to me.
One thing I'm requiring is dual band 2.4GHz & 5GHz simultaneously
(with backward compatibility).

All I'm trying to find out is if this HP 15z laptop is dual band.
It's amazingly difficult to find this out.

I'm online right now with a supposedly-special HP customer support sales
hotline (888-999-4747), and they STILL don't know the answer.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 16:35:02 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

From what Jeff said, all I can tell is (is this correct?):

Nope. It should be:
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz only
802.11 n == 2.4GHz or 5GHz === changed
802.11 ac == 5GHz only

Basically, if it has an "a" in the description, then it's 5GHz.
Otherwise, it's 2.4GHz.

Yes, but the "a" and "ac" are a concidence. The IEEE 802.11
committee(s) ran out of letters when they hit "z", so the started
using two letter suffixes as in "as", "ab", "ac", etc. There fact
that "a" and "ac" are both "5GHz only" is purely coincidental and
should not be relied upon to determine if something operates on 5GHz.

As I mentioned before, if it does "ac", it should be able to do "a".
Nobody makes a 5GHz only radio these days, so if it does 5GHz in any
form, it should also be able to do 2.4GHz. However, these are logical
deduction and assumptions which should not be relied upon. To be
sure, you need to pry the Intel product number out of HP and lookup
the specs on the Intel web site, which should have a better
description of the products capabilities.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 10:17:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Nope. It should be:
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz
only 802.11 n == 2.4GHz or 5GHz === changed 802.11
ac == 5GHz only

Thank you Jeff for clarifying this spec:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

After a half hour on three separate HP calls, I learned something (I
think) that nobody told me yet...
1. HP Tech Support 888-222-0029
2. Advanced HP Tech Support 866-221-4553
3. HP Shopping Team 888-999-4747

HP: They first told me the ac card was just ac.
ME: I told them that this was unlikely, so I asked them to doublecheck.

HP: After a long wait, they told me the "ac" card was backwards
compatible, but it was only 5GHz.
ME: I told them that was impossible.

HP: Then, after another long wait, they told me it was NOT dual band, but
that it had both bands.
ME: I told them that this confused me, and I asked them to clarify.

HP: Finally, they came back and said that the "ac" card was backwards
compatible, so that it had two frequencies, but they don't operate at the
same time, so it's not dual band.
ME: I said thank you but I would like to ask you, Jeff, to clarify.

Does that HP answer make sense?
The "ac" card is backwards compatible, so, it has both frequencies, but
it doesn't do both frequencies at the same time?

What does that really mean?

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 10:17:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Nope. It should be:
802.11 a == 5GHz only 802.11 b == 2.4GHz only 802.11 g == 2.4GHz
only 802.11 n == 2.4GHz or 5GHz === changed 802.11 ac == 5GHz only

This should be correct, by now, where I appreciate Jeff's patience:
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz only
802.11 n == 2.4GHz or 5GHz (or both?)
802.11 ac == 5GHz only

Jeff: Notice the question mark in the "n" spec.
Is "n" always just *either* frequency (i.e., one or the other).
Or can "n" be either one or the other or *both* frequencies?

On 09/08/2015 12:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 16:35:02 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

From what Jeff said, all I can tell is (is this correct?):

Nope. It should be:
802.11 a == 5GHz only
802.11 b == 2.4GHz only
802.11 g == 2.4GHz only
802.11 n == 2.4GHz or 5GHz === changed
802.11 ac == 5GHz only

For completeness, there is the original 802.11 (with no suffix) that is
also on 2.4GHz. IIRC, maximum speed for that is 2Mbps.

[snip]


--
107 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

"Nobody has ever taken notable pains to locate the legendary heaven; but
probably that is because nobody ever thought seriously of going to a
heaven." [E. Haldeman-Julius, "The Meaning Of Atheism"]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

b/g = 2.4 GHz only
b/g/n = 2.4 GHz
only a = 5 GHz only
a/b/g/n = 2.4 and 5 GHz
The key is the "a" as in 802.11a, which is 5 GHz only.

So, if it doesn't have "a" (all by itself and not with "ac"),
then it's not 5GHz? Is that correct?

Broken link. Try:
http://reviews.costco.com/2070/10008...d-hp-envy-15z-
laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm
which says:
802.11b/g/n WLAN
which is 2.4 GHz only.

This link worked for me just now:
http://www.costco.com/CTOConfigureCm...1&prodtype= 2

If you must have Microsoft Office, look
at Office 365 or the various Office Mutations available.

Sad story. Long story. Experience. Nothing else is Microsoft Office.
You and I can handle any office lookalike program, but teachers can't.
Office 365 is stupid, for anyone buying only 1 copy of Home & Student,
and who is still using Office 2007, which means they'd pay for Office
ten times over with the subscription than with the one price.

Back to the "a", which is 5GHz and "g" which is 2.4GHz.
What if it's 802.11 b/g/n/ac ?

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 02:57:35 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

b/g = 2.4 GHz only
b/g/n = 2.4 GHz
only a = 5 GHz only
a/b/g/n = 2.4 and 5 GHz
The key is the "a" as in 802.11a, which is 5 GHz only.

So, if it doesn't have "a" (all by itself and not with "ac"),
then it's not 5GHz? Is that correct?

No. Both 802.11a and 802.11ac are 5 GHz only. Just look for the "a"
and it should be able to do 5 GHz in some manner.

Broken link. Try:
http://reviews.costco.com/2070/10008...d-hp-envy-15z-
laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm
which says:
802.11b/g/n WLAN
which is 2.4 GHz only.

This link worked for me just now:
http://www.costco.com/CTOConfigureCm...1&prodtype= 2

The WLAN card is listed as "802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]" which will NOT do
5 GHz.

If you must have Microsoft Office, look
at Office 365 or the various Office Mutations available.

Sad story. Long story. Experience. Nothing else is Microsoft Office.
You and I can handle any office lookalike program, but teachers can't.
Office 365 is stupid, for anyone buying only 1 copy of Home & Student,
and who is still using Office 2007, which means they'd pay for Office
ten times over with the subscription than with the one price.

Are you sure? Office 365 can be installed on 5 machines. If the
skool has 5 machines of any type, which makes the price for each
machine about $20/year.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Office-365-Home/productID.286395000
Meanwhile, Home and Student is $140 and should last about 5 to 7 years
before it become too old to use. At an optimistic 7 years, that's the
same $20/year per machine as Office 365.

Back to the "a", which is 5GHz and "g" which is 2.4GHz.
What if it's 802.11 b/g/n/ac ?

No such thing. In order to do "ac", it will need to also do "a". So
the typical designation will be:
802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:32:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

What if it's 802.11 b/g/n/ac ?

No such thing. In order to do "ac", it will need to also do "a".
So the typical designation will be: 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

Unfortunately, the "typical" designation doesn't help us here.
The HP spec, as you have seen, just says "ac" for the high end card.
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:32:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Are you sure? Office 365 can be installed on 5 machines. If the skool
has 5 machines of any type, which makes the price for each machine about
$20/year.
Meanwhile, Home and Student is $140 and should last about 5 to 7 years
before it become too old to use. At an optimistic 7 years, that's the
same $20/year per machine as Office 365.

I'm sure, but only because of arithmetic.

She's a teacher. Not a school.

She only has an ancient WinXP desktop that has Office 2007 on it.
When she gets a new laptop, she needs a new Office anyway.

1. Renting Office 365 for a laptop costs $100/year and can be put on 4
more non WinXP machines that don't actually exist. After 7 years, renting
cost her $700 for Office for that one laptop, which is more than the
laptop costs.

2. Buying Office 2013 costs her $140, and can be put on one desktop and
one laptop. Since the desktop is WinXP, the additional license is moot,
so, it costs her $140 for 7 years (or 10% less with the teacher discount).

It's a no brainer, to me; but this isn't the question in the OP, so it's
just an offshoot discussion which isn't at all confusing to me.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 08:54:00 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:32:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Are you sure? Office 365 can be installed on 5 machines. If the skool
has 5 machines of any type, which makes the price for each machine about
$20/year.
Meanwhile, Home and Student is $140 and should last about 5 to 7 years
before it become too old to use. At an optimistic 7 years, that's the
same $20/year per machine as Office 365.

I'm sure, but only because of arithmetic.

If you don't believe the numbers, then what do you believe?

She's a teacher. Not a school.
She only has an ancient WinXP desktop that has Office 2007 on it.
When she gets a new laptop, she needs a new Office anyway.

Nope. Office 2007 will run on Win 10:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-in/windows/compatibility/CompatCenter/ProductViewerWithDefaultFilters?TempOsid=Windows%2 010&Locale=en-in&Architecture=X64&TextSearch=microsoft%2Boffice% 2B2007%2Bstandard&Type=Both&CurrentPage=0&TotalPag es=1&ShowCriteria=0&SortCriteria=Relevance&Compati bility=Unknown&LastRequested=14
Grab Belarc Advisor, run it on the XP machine, and PRINT the results.
Somewhere in there, it will have the various serial numbers needed for
the installation. If the ancient XP machine crashes without a backup
or a list of serial numbers, she will not be able to reinstall Office
2007 on a new machine:
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

1. Renting Office 365 for a laptop costs $100/year and can be put on 4
more non WinXP machines that don't actually exist. After 7 years, renting
cost her $700 for Office for that one laptop, which is more than the
laptop costs.

2. Buying Office 2013 costs her $140, and can be put on one desktop and
one laptop. Since the desktop is WinXP, the additional license is moot,
so, it costs her $140 for 7 years (or 10% less with the teacher discount).

It's a no brainer, to me; but this isn't the question in the OP, so it's
just an offshoot discussion which isn't at all confusing to me.

Right. With only one machine, Office 365 doesn't make economic sense.
I was thinking of a skool, not an individual user. I still think the
various alternatives (Google Office, LibreOffice, etc) are worth
investigating.

Good luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

b/g = 2.4 GHz only
b/g/n = 2.4 GHz
only a = 5 GHz only
a/b/g/n = 2.4 and 5 GHz
The key is the "a" as in 802.11a, which is 5 GHz only.

So, if it doesn't have "a" (all by itself and not with "ac"),
then it's not 5GHz? Is that correct?

Broken link. Try:
http://reviews.costco.com/2070/10008...d-hp-envy-15z-
laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm
which says:
802.11b/g/n WLAN
which is 2.4 GHz only.

This link worked for me just now:
http://www.costco.com/CTOConfigureCm...1&prodtype= 2

If you must have Microsoft Office, look
at Office 365 or the various Office Mutations available.

Sad story. Long story. Experience. Nothing else is Microsoft Office.
You and I can handle any office lookalike program, but teachers can't.
Office 365 is stupid, for anyone buying only 1 copy of Home & Student,
and who is still using Office 2007, which means they'd pay for Office
ten times over with the subscription than with the one price.

Back to the "a", which is 5GHz and "g" which is 2.4GHz.
What if it's 802.11 b/g/n/ac ?

Who cares about -b ancient slowest mode. G, N, AC. If it is AC card or
router AC is downward compatible with slower modes.Student version lacks
some features and miscellaneous things. Why do you think it is cheaper?
WiFi is 2 way street one laptop has AC card does not mean it'll be
faster, corresponding device at the other end should be AC
capable too. If AC card talks to N card speed will be that of N.

On 9/7/2015 10:57 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:


Sad story. Long story. Experience. Nothing else is Microsoft Office.
You and I can handle any office lookalike program, but teachers can't.
Office 365 is stupid, for anyone buying only 1 copy of Home & Student,
and who is still using Office 2007, which means they'd pay for Office
ten times over with the subscription than with the one price.

There is one advantage. The dog eating the homework it too old to be
believed these days. Now the excuse is, "My mother didn't pay this
month's Word rent so it won't let me print"

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Broken link.

Does this link work for you?
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...ptop-m7d88av-1

Look at this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

If I press the customize button, I have three WiFi card choices.

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz?
How do I know?

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 03:05:56 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Broken link.

Does this link work for you?
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...ptop-m7d88av-1

Yes, it works, after about 90 seconds of loading content from all over
the web.

Look at this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

If I press the customize button, I have three WiFi card choices.

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz?
How do I know?

I would guess the number 3 will certainly do 5 GHz. However, the web
designers truncated the letters that designate the all the protocols,
listing only the highest (fastest) 802.11ac. Presumably, that would
include all the lesser protocols, including 802.11 a/b/g/n. However,
I can't be certain without knowing the Intel model number of the
wireless card.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Broken link.

Does this link work for you?
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...ptop-m7d88av-1

Look at this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

If I press the customize button, I have three WiFi card choices.

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz?
How do I know?

Again No. 3 Looks like basic dual band being 1x1, not 2x2 or 3x3.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 22:48:56 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and
Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz? How do I know?

Again No. 3 Looks like basic dual band being 1x1, not 2x2 or 3x3.

I'm still confused.

Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]".
So, what does that tell us?

Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 22:48:56 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and
Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz? How do I know?

Again No. 3 Looks like basic dual band being 1x1, not 2x2 or 3x3.

I'm still confused.

Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]".
So, what does that tell us?

Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?

No. But if you google "Intel 802.11 ac wifi Bluetooth" you'll see
it says the Intel product supports dual band. All the similar products
I've seen do too and I'd say you're 99% certain the product you're buying
does too. Notebooks have to work everywhere and it would be pretty
dumb to have some unusual card that doesn't support the older standards.

Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 22:48:56 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and
Bluetooth(R) [1x1]

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz? How do I know?

Again No. 3 Looks like basic dual band being 1x1, not 2x2 or 3x3.

I'm still confused.

Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]".
So, what does that tell us?

Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?

I am out of this thread. You are impossible.
When e say it is dual band it is. If you can't believe why don't you ask
HP? So much hassle buying a laptop.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 08:40:06 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote:

Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]".
So, what does that tell us?

Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?

It tells me that HP marketing is clueless. The assumption is that
anything that does "ac" will also do the lesser protocol of "a". Since
"ac" only works on 5GHz, and nobody today makes a 5GHz only radio,
it's a fair assumption that anything with "ac" will be dual band.
However, that's an assumption. I tried to find the Intel card used in
the 15z and failed. You'll probably have to ask HP pre-sales, this I
predict will be clueless. You might try the HP support forums.
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Laptop-and-Notebook-Computers/ct-p/Notebook

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting.
I never hear of different WiFi to me all are universal speed depend
on your OS system, and the host and router if in use. as much I know all
laptops
have capability to hook to WiFi but you will need password unless system is
open.
no to many of those around but you can be lucky.

"EwaldBöhm" wrote in message ...

How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz,
or both?

I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.

My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism) because
USA
phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent
15.6-inch
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html

The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac",
there's
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

But, we can fix that at the HP web site.

If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what Costco
doesn't
have (and get free shipping).
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...&TabName=specs

0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much memory
as
Costco's (4GB - 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only $20
more
than the Costco price.
1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra $140
(either
boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier
re-use later).
https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...tNumber=QM4342
2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band,
2.4GHz and
5GHz or not?
3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30 (because
my sis
wants that).
https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...=LV290AA%23ABA
The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).

For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an hour
with the HP
sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop has
both
2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.

HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n" don't
have to be dual
band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2 or
4x4 just means
the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which says
absolutely
nothing about the frequency.
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...or-dummies.pdf

My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz, or both?

tony944 wrote:
I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting.
I never hear of different WiFi to me all are universal speed depend
on your OS system, and the host and router if in use. as much I know
all laptops
have capability to hook to WiFi but you will need password unless system
is open.
no to many of those around but you can be lucky.

"EwaldBöhm" wrote in message ...

How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz,
or both?

I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.

My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism)
because USA
phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent
15.6-inch
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html


The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac",
there's
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

But, we can fix that at the HP web site.

If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what
Costco doesn't
have (and get free shipping).
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...&TabName=specs


0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much
memory as
Costco's (4GB - 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only
$20 more
than the Costco price.
1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra
$140 (either
boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier
re-use later).

https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...tNumber=QM4342

2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band,
2.4GHz and
5GHz or not?
3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30
(because my sis
wants that).

https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...=LV290AA%23ABA

The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).

For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an
hour with the HP
sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop
has both
2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.

HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n"
don't have to be dual
band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2
or 4x4 just means
the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which
says absolutely
nothing about the frequency.
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...or-dummies.pdf


My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz, or both?

Tony Hwang wrote:
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...or-dummies.pdf




My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz, or both?

Hi,
-AC mode runs on 5GHz band, -N can run on either.
So, it'll be dual band card, 2 stream one(2 antennas)
Full -AC needs 4 antennas and there are almost no such thing
yet for users. Of course it'll have Gbit Ethernet controller too.
Does it have Bluetooth? Bluetooth mouse and keyboard?
8 GB memory is good. You don't have to spend 140.00 on MS Office.
Freeware Openoffice is compatible with MS Office. Let her try it and
you can buy MS later on student discount. And what cpu, and Video
controller?(what is native resolution?) I am sure the laptop will have
HDMI port and sufficient no. of USB port. And my(very robust game
machine with enough cpu and video controller power) daily use laptop is
14", i7 quad cpu, 8GB memory Nvidia 740M video card and DVD r/w drive,
etc. gotten for ~500.00 on eBay. Built-like tank. Never let me down. I
never owned HP laptop. Personally I just don't like it. But I used many
different Enterprise grade HP work stations or server.
Most people use Intel 7260 dual band WiFi card. I have it in all our
laptop except my wife's Asus GX60 which has Bigfoot Killer N card.
I seldom use desktop any more. At home I use 17" Asus ROG with SSDs,
16GB memory, Nvidia 840m video card, i7 quad cpu, Blue ray R/W drive,
etc. I use this for my real work. triple boot, W7 x64, Ultimate, W10 Pro
and Ubuntu. (What real work? I am retired old fart, LOL!)

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:51:42 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

-AC mode runs on 5GHz band, -N can run on either.
So, it'll be dual band card, 2 stream one(2 antennas)

Maybe. Maybe not.
Jeff just explained that only "a" has 5GHz.
The rest can be 2.4 GHz.

Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:51:42 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

-AC mode runs on 5GHz band, -N can run on either.
So, it'll be dual band card, 2 stream one(2 antennas)

Maybe. Maybe not.
Jeff just explained that only "a" has 5GHz.
The rest can be 2.4 GHz.

I know who Jeff is. -a is another mode consumers do not bother.
I can buy a legit key for MS Office 2015 for 30.00 or so.
Download it and use that key to activate. Always worked for me.
I even bought keys for my surveillance camera use on Synology NAS.
Real =AC mode, 80MHz wide is full -AC with 4 MIMO(4 antennas) and some
will work on MU-MIMO(yet to come by Qualcom, Quantenna, etc.)
You just specify dual band card as an option. Some HP laptops don't
like any card. HP has white list of WiFi card.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:51:42 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

-AC mode runs on 5GHz band, -N can run on either.

So, if 'n' can run on either, when a spec only says 'b/g/n',
how do you know whether the 'n' is 2.4GHz or 5GHz?

tony944 wrote:
I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting.
I never hear of different WiFi to me all are universal speed depend
on your OS system, and the host and router if in use. as much I know
all laptops
have capability to hook to WiFi but you will need password unless system
is open.
no to many of those around but you can be lucky.

"EwaldBöhm" wrote in message ...

How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz,
or both?

I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.

My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism)
because USA
phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent
15.6-inch
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html


The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac",
there's
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

But, we can fix that at the HP web site.

If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what
Costco doesn't
have (and get free shipping).
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...&TabName=specs


0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much
memory as
Costco's (4GB - 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only
$20 more
than the Costco price.
1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra
$140 (either
boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier
re-use later).

https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...tNumber=QM4342

2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band,
2.4GHz and
5GHz or not?
3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30
(because my sis
wants that).

https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stor...=LV290AA%23ABA

The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).

For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an
hour with the HP
sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop
has both
2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.

HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n"
don't have to be dual
band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2
or 4x4 just means
the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which
says absolutely
nothing about the frequency.
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...or-dummies.pdf


My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or
5GHz, or both?

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:29:10 -0700, tony944 wrote:

I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting.

Basically, the WiFi cards for the Costco & HP web pages, do NOT list
the frequency. I won't recommend a laptop that does not have *both*
2.4GHz and 5GHz.

I just want to know how I can be sure of that, when they don't bother
to list the frequencies in the WiFi specs!

Here is the HP spec for that laptop:
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...ptop-m7d88av-1

I can't tell which WiFi card has *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:29:10 -0700, tony944 wrote:

I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting.

Basically, the WiFi cards for the Costco & HP web pages, do NOT list
the frequency. I won't recommend a laptop that does not have *both*
2.4GHz and 5GHz.

I just want to know how I can be sure of that, when they don't bother
to list the frequencies in the WiFi specs!

Here is the HP spec for that laptop:
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptop...ptop-m7d88av-1

I can't tell which WiFi card has *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

The option Intel -AC card with Bluetooth is what you want then.
This one is dual band(2.4GHz, 5GHz) This is AMD cpu based laptop.
A10 is the top end one. Video card... Rxxxx. xxxx at higher number is
better one. Any more questions? Don't forget to read reviews on this
model to see whether buyers are happy or not.

On 09/07/2015 02:15 AM, Ewald Böhm wrote:

My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


FWIW, this Lenovo ThinkPad W550s has two cards listed as options:

-- Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0"

-- Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0"
..

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...tab-tech_specs

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 04:36:43 -0400, noname wrote:

FWIW, this Lenovo ThinkPad W550s has two cards listed as options:

-- Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0"

-- Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0"

Since this thread is really about INTERPRETING specs, is this
interpretation correct?

1. Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Would it be safe to assume this has *only* 2.4GHz?

2. Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Is it safe to assume this has *both* 2.4GHz & 5GHz?

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 12:36:59 PM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 04:36:43 -0400, noname wrote:

FWIW, this Lenovo ThinkPad W550s has two cards listed as options:

-- Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0"

-- Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0"

Since this thread is really about INTERPRETING specs, is this
interpretation correct?

1. Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Would it be safe to assume this has *only* 2.4GHz?

2. Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Is it safe to assume this has *both* 2.4GHz & 5GHz?

No, because they are obviously the same Intel card, the same part #
and Intel isn't dumb enough to have a wifi AC card that can't also
connect to older networks. That card is dual band, period.

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 09:45:19 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Since this thread is really about INTERPRETING specs, is this
interpretation correct?

1. Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Would it be safe to assume this has *only* 2.4GHz?

2. Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Is it safe to assume this has *both* 2.4GHz & 5GHz?

No, because they are obviously the same Intel card, the same part #
and Intel isn't dumb enough to have a wifi AC card that can't also
connect to older networks. That card is dual band, period.

After my conversation with HP today, I found out that their "ac" card has
both 2.4GHz and 5GHz because it is backward compatible, but they said
that backwards-compatible-ac-card is *not* a "dual band" card.

Apparently they defined "dual band" in a specific way, that excludes the
fact that it has "two" bands.

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 3:06:14 PM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 09:45:19 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Since this thread is really about INTERPRETING specs, is this
interpretation correct?

1. Intel 7265 BGN + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Would it be safe to assume this has *only* 2.4GHz?

2. Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0
Is it safe to assume this has *both* 2.4GHz & 5GHz?

No, because they are obviously the same Intel card, the same part #
and Intel isn't dumb enough to have a wifi AC card that can't also
connect to older networks. That card is dual band, period.

After my conversation with HP today, I found out that their "ac" card has
both 2.4GHz and 5GHz because it is backward compatible, but they said
that backwards-compatible-ac-card is *not* a "dual band" card.

Apparently they defined "dual band" in a specific way, that excludes the
fact that it has "two" bands.

HP obviously has people that don't know WTF they are talking about.
But keep calling them, if you like.