On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 12:27:21 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 13/08/2015 22:27, NEMO wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:38:30 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 13/08/2015 12:57, Edmund J. Burke wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33773868
et al.

As a driver, this seems perfectly reasonable to me

Although it's being billed as being revolutionary, in the USA it's been
a fairly common feature for decades at many junctions (for all traffic).

Not everywhere in the States.

One obvious exception is in New York City (though it's OK elsewhere in
New York State).

The NYC exception arises out of the grid-pattern of the streets.

Actually, it doesn't. Most US cities have a grid pattern. It's
because NYC, unlike other cities, has pedestrians.

I agree that NYC, almost alone of USA cities, has European levels of
pedestrian traffic (SF is another), but the tight pattern of "the Grid",
coupled with the exceptional pedestrian traffic is what requires the "no
right turn on red" rule. Every crossroad is subject to high ped traffic
(not the case in SF and hardly likely elsewhere other than - perhaps -
Boston, which I have no visited).

Pedestrians, by the way, are generally and admirably compliant with the
traffic signals at crossroads with avenues, though less so half-way
along the east-west street routes.

I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

On 14/08/2015 15:21, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 12:27:21 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 13/08/2015 22:27, NEMO wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:38:30 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 13/08/2015 12:57, Edmund J. Burke wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33773868
et al.

As a driver, this seems perfectly reasonable to me

Although it's being billed as being revolutionary, in the USA it's been
a fairly common feature for decades at many junctions (for all traffic).

Not everywhere in the States.

One obvious exception is in New York City (though it's OK elsewhere in
New York State).

The NYC exception arises out of the grid-pattern of the streets.

Actually, it doesn't. Most US cities have a grid pattern. It's
because NYC, unlike other cities, has pedestrians.

I agree that NYC, almost alone of USA cities, has European levels of
pedestrian traffic (SF is another), but the tight pattern of "the Grid",
coupled with the exceptional pedestrian traffic is what requires the "no
right turn on red" rule. Every crossroad is subject to high ped traffic
(not the case in SF and hardly likely elsewhere other than - perhaps -
Boston, which I have no visited).

Pedestrians, by the way, are generally and admirably compliant with the
traffic signals at crossroads with avenues, though less so half-way
along the east-west street routes.

I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

At a guess, because the City doesn't want drivers to be confused as to
which locations allow RTOR.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

"NEMO" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.


Miss Recktum, nobuddy wants to visit yer ****ty little island.
LOL

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:30:17 -0700, "Colon Edmud Jackass Burchese of
Ladyboise, Idaho" wrote:

"NEMO" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.


Miss Recktum, nobuddy wants to visit yer ****ty little island.
LOL

Manhattan is not my ****ty little island, KKKoloon...it's in the Great
Satan...it's YERS. LOLOK

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:02:51 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

People coming over from the UKraine would be reluctant to turn right
on a red light, even when it IS allowed :----------------)


“I don't want to live in a city where the only cultural advantage is
that you can make a right turn on a red light.”
- Woody Allen (1935 - ), 'Annie Hall' (1977), in reference to LA

On 14/08/2015 23:22, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:02:51 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

People coming over from the UKraine would be reluctant to turn right
on a red light, even when it IS allowed :----------------)


“I don't want to live in a city where the only cultural advantage is
that you can make a right turn on a red light.”
- Woody Allen (1935 - ), 'Annie Hall' (1977), in reference to LA

That's a native New Yorker talking territorially and understandably so.

But Los Angeles has many other cultural advantages.

JNugent posted for all of us...


I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

At a guess, because the City doesn't want drivers to be confused as to
which locations allow RTOR.

I presume that cyclists have to obey the vehicle code. In PA that is true
but seldom cited. Stop signs, lanes, traffic lights all mean nothing-they
yield because they don't want to get wiped out but actually stopping; not
gonna happen.

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:04:18 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

JNugent posted for all of us...


I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

At a guess, because the City doesn't want drivers to be confused as to
which locations allow RTOR.

I presume that cyclists have to obey the vehicle code. In PA that is true
but seldom cited. Stop signs, lanes, traffic lights all mean nothing-they
yield because they don't want to get wiped out but actually stopping; not
gonna happen.

The law basically treats cyclists as honorary pedestrians instead of
vehicles (which they are): a diversity-enhancing protected species.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:46:22 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 23:22, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:02:51 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

People coming over from the UKraine would be reluctant to turn right
on a red light, even when it IS allowed :----------------)


“I don't want to live in a city where the only cultural advantage is
that you can make a right turn on a red light.”
- Woody Allen (1935 - ), 'Annie Hall' (1977), in reference to LA

That's a native New Yorker talking territorially and understandably so.

I'm surprised he can even drive.

But Los Angeles has many other cultural advantages.

Indeed. Skid Row, the 405, Compton, Hollyvood...have I left any out?

On 16/08/2015 01:17, NEMO wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:46:22 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 23:22, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:02:51 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

People coming over from the UKraine would be reluctant to turn right
on a red light, even when it IS allowed :----------------)


“I don't want to live in a city where the only cultural advantage is
that you can make a right turn on a red light.”
- Woody Allen (1935 - ), 'Annie Hall' (1977), in reference to LA

That's a native New Yorker talking territorially and understandably so.

I'm surprised he can even drive.

But Los Angeles has many other cultural advantages.

Indeed. Skid Row, the 405, Compton, Hollyvood...have I left any out?

You can keep Compton.

But I'm quite fond of the 405.

Just imagine what would happen if the traffic had to use Sepulveda
Boulevard instead.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:13:46 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 16/08/2015 01:17, NEMO wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:46:22 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 23:22, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:02:51 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 17:58, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:55:50 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 14/08/2015 16:41, NEMO wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:28:13 +0100, JNugent
wrote:
Mahattan is quite separate from the other boroughs...you have to take
a bridge/tunnel/ferry to get in or out. There's more confusion when
entering the outer boroughs from neighbouring counties...surely there
isn't a 'no turn on red' sign at every single entry point?

Dunno.

But it is generally known that NYC doesn't allow RTOR.

Not as generally as you'd think...lots of out-of-towners get ticketed
for doing it.

Not me... ;-)

People coming over from the UKraine would be reluctant to turn right
on a red light, even when it IS allowed :----------------)


“I don't want to live in a city where the only cultural advantage is
that you can make a right turn on a red light.”
- Woody Allen (1935 - ), 'Annie Hall' (1977), in reference to LA

That's a native New Yorker talking territorially and understandably so.

I'm surprised he can even drive.

But Los Angeles has many other cultural advantages.

Indeed. Skid Row, the 405, Compton, Hollyvood...have I left any out?

You can keep Compton.

But not on racial grounds, I assume.

But I'm quite fond of the 405.

4pm on a Friday?

Just imagine what would happen if the traffic had to use Sepulveda
Boulevard instead.

Or the PCH. Carmaggedon!

"NEMO" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:04:18 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

JNugent posted for all of us...


I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

At a guess, because the City doesn't want drivers to be confused as to
which locations allow RTOR.

I presume that cyclists have to obey the vehicle code. In PA that is true
but seldom cited. Stop signs, lanes, traffic lights all mean nothing-they
yield because they don't want to get wiped out but actually stopping; not
gonna happen.

The law basically treats cyclists as honorary pedestrians instead of
vehicles (which they are): a diversity-enhancing protected species.

Oh shaddup, ****-for-brains!
LOL

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:01:30 -0700, "Colon Edmud Jackass Burchese of
Ladyboise, Idaho" wrote:

"NEMO" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:04:18 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

JNugent posted for all of us...


I wonder why the 'no turn on red' rule applies not only in Manhattan
but in all five boroughs of NYC. The outer boroughs have much lower
pedestiran levels and much less of a grid system.

At a guess, because the City doesn't want drivers to be confused as to
which locations allow RTOR.

I presume that cyclists have to obey the vehicle code. In PA that is true
but seldom cited. Stop signs, lanes, traffic lights all mean nothing-they
yield because they don't want to get wiped out but actually stopping; not
gonna happen.

The law basically treats cyclists as honorary pedestrians instead of
vehicles (which they are): a diversity-enhancing protected species.

Oh shaddup, ****-for-brains!
LOL

Oh, blow it out yer fat Yankee ass, KKKoloon! LOLOK