This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor concrete
front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have the whole thing
removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including the landing etc.

The question is, are there less expensive options that may also be an
option?

For example, is it possible to just remove the several damaged steps, and
only replace those few, instead of replacing the landing and everything
else?

Or, is it possible to do a repair on only the damaged steps by maybe
removing the spalled and damaged areas, anchoring in some wire mesh in those
areas, and then re-forming/repairing just those areas?

Any other ideas or possibilities? Thanks.

Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg

On 4/12/2015 9:56 AM, TomR wrote:
This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor concrete
front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have the whole thing
removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including the landing etc.

The question is, are there less expensive options that may also be an
option?

For example, is it possible to just remove the several damaged steps, and
only replace those few, instead of replacing the landing and everything
else?

Or, is it possible to do a repair on only the damaged steps by maybe
removing the spalled and damaged areas, anchoring in some wire mesh in those
areas, and then re-forming/repairing just those areas?

Any other ideas or possibilities? Thanks.

Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg



Long run, it may be easier to remove and replace with a pre-cast set of
steps.

It is not easy to remove and replace. It may be possible for a talented
concrete guy to do some patching and forming to fill in the bad spots,
but that is just a measure to get by for a time. If one of the patches
lets loose when you are carrying in some packages, it may be an
expensive mishap on the packages and body.

It may also be possible to do something like lay on a slate veneer on
the top of the steps and mortar in the fronts. You'd need someone with
more expertise than me to check it out.

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor concrete
front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have the whole thing
removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including the landing etc.

The question is, are there less expensive options that may also be an
option?

For example, is it possible to just remove the several damaged steps, and
only replace those few, instead of replacing the landing and everything
else?

Or, is it possible to do a repair on only the damaged steps by maybe
removing the spalled and damaged areas, anchoring in some wire mesh in those
areas, and then re-forming/repairing just those areas?

Any other ideas or possibilities? Thanks.

Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg

steps are past end of life. I have repaired ones like your photo, but in the end replacement is better.

The issue is, if the bond between the old step and patch fails, the bond can fail quickly and whoever is on the steps can fall, and might get hurt.

I have wooden steps built to replace concrete ones that failed some 15 years ago.

now the wood ones need replaced

My first thought was to put in wooden steps, it does not require the effort that patching or rebuilding concrete steps would require. But the disposal of the old steps may be more of a problem than what to replace them with...

In ,
Ed Pawlowski typed:
On 4/12/2015 9:56 AM, TomR wrote:
This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor
concrete front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have
the whole thing removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including
the landing etc. The question is, are there less expensive options that
may also be an
option?
. . . ,
Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg

Long run, it may be easier to remove and replace with a pre-cast set
of steps.

It is not easy to remove and replace.

I agree that it may not be easy to remove and replace. I don't have a side
view photo, and I don't know how the original steps are poured and
constructed.

I once had a very small 3-step set of back door concrete steps to remove and
replace. I replaced them with a small wood deck/landing and wood steps.
But, removing the old steps in that project was tough. They were one solid
block of concrete. The only good thing was that they did not have any rebar
in them.

I rented a jack hammer and I thought that I could break them up and haul
them away. It was such a solid concrete mess that I was only able to break
some pieces off and, in the end, I was left with a small solid ball of
concrete with no "edges" or pieces to break off with the jack hammer.
Finally, I just dug a big hole and I rolled that last piece of concrete into
the hole and buried it -- not really legal where I am, I don't think, but
that's what I did.

That is why I am wondering if there may be a way to either repair the
existing steps in this project, or maybe leave the landing and possibly the
first step down from the top, and then remove and replace the 3 steps below
that.

I guess it all depends on exactly what is there now and how the steps were
built. Another possibility would be to look at nearby steps and see if they
all appear to have been built the same way at the same time. Maybe that
would give a clue as to what to do with these steps.

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:33:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I guess it all depends on exactly what is there now and how the steps were
built. Another possibility would be to look at nearby steps and see if they
all appear to have been built the same way at the same time. Maybe that
would give a clue as to what to do with these steps.

Good luck to your friends. It there any chance ADA compliance would
be necessary in the future? Say a wheel chair / walker
ramp...combined with a set of steps(design).

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:33:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I guess it all depends on exactly what is there now and how the
steps were built. Another possibility would be to look at nearby
steps and see if they all appear to have been built the same way at
the same time. Maybe that would give a clue as to what to do with
these steps.

Good luck to your friends. It there any chance ADA compliance would
be necessary in the future? Say a wheel chair / walker
ramp...combined with a set of steps(design).

No ADA compliance issues. The steps are for two single family homes with
different owners. Neither is a place for public accommodation etc. That's
a good thing since there would be no way to make either home wheelchair
accessible etc.

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:32:12 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:33:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I guess it all depends on exactly what is there now and how the
steps were built. Another possibility would be to look at nearby
steps and see if they all appear to have been built the same way at
the same time. Maybe that would give a clue as to what to do with
these steps.

Good luck to your friends. It there any chance ADA compliance would
be necessary in the future? Say a wheel chair / walker
ramp...combined with a set of steps(design).

No ADA compliance issues. The steps are for two single family homes with
different owners. Neither is a place for public accommodation etc. That's
a good thing since there would be no way to make either home wheelchair
accessible etc.


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=16lzewp&s=8

I agree with needing a side view. You still have to deal with the
hand rails in the final solutions. As to ADA, I was curious if it
might be something an owner may need and not so much public
accommodation.

In ,
TomR typed:
This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor
concrete front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have
the whole thing removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including
the landing etc. . . . ,
The question is, are there less expensive options that may also be an
option?
. . . ,
http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged steps is
a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged steps is
a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

....git 'er done

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged
steps is a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

...git 'er done

Yep, that would be my plan, and that's what I will suggest to my friend.

That last video is by a mason who works in the same State where my friend's
property is located, but he is not close enough for my friend to use him for
the work. But, it is clear that doing a repair job for this type of step
damage does work. This guy doesn't use any special additives, cleaners,
bonding agents, or anchoring screws etc. The product that he uses is called
Cement All Rapid Set cement:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rapid-Set...0055/202188447

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:24:51 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged
steps is a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

...git 'er done

Yep, that would be my plan, and that's what I will suggest to my friend.

That last video is by a mason who works in the same State where my friend's
property is located, but he is not close enough for my friend to use him for
the work. But, it is clear that doing a repair job for this type of step
damage does work. This guy doesn't use any special additives, cleaners,
bonding agents, or anchoring screws etc. The product that he uses is called
Cement All Rapid Set cement:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rapid-Set...0055/202188447


Each video had an intersecting approach. One used Tap-Cons like a
sort of "rebar" for big damage. The fast cure stuff makes sense -
finish in a day. Your friend has five (5) steps to fix - adapt and
overcome

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 3:39:30 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:24:51 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged
steps is a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

...git 'er done

Yep, that would be my plan, and that's what I will suggest to my friend.

That last video is by a mason who works in the same State where my friend's
property is located, but he is not close enough for my friend to use him for
the work. But, it is clear that doing a repair job for this type of step
damage does work. This guy doesn't use any special additives, cleaners,
bonding agents, or anchoring screws etc. The product that he uses is called
Cement All Rapid Set cement:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rapid-Set...0055/202188447


Each video had an intersecting approach. One used Tap-Cons like a
sort of "rebar" for big damage. The fast cure stuff makes sense -
finish in a day. Your friend has five (5) steps to fix - adapt and
overcome

The interesting thing with those screws was how easy the one he
was driving went in.... I think the screw idea sounds interesting,
but if they go in as easy as that one did, it would seem to me the
remaining concrete is in pretty bad shape. In that case, they
probably aren't doing much. If they go in like they would
in good concrete, then I think they could be a plus. But even then,
if they are worth it, IDK, but I guess on a step repair anything that
can make it more sound is good. Like Ed said, the thing you don't
want to happen is for it to fail later with no notice with someone on it.

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:36:40 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote
in

On 4/12/2015 9:56 AM, TomR wrote:
This is for a friend. He needs to repair or replace the outdoor concrete
front steps shown in the photo below. He may need to have the whole thing
removed and replaced, from top to bottom, including the landing etc.

The question is, are there less expensive options that may also be an
option?

For example, is it possible to just remove the several damaged steps, and
only replace those few, instead of replacing the landing and everything
else?

Or, is it possible to do a repair on only the damaged steps by maybe
removing the spalled and damaged areas, anchoring in some wire mesh in those
areas, and then re-forming/repairing just those areas?

Any other ideas or possibilities? Thanks.

Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg



Long run, it may be easier to remove and replace with a pre-cast set of
steps.

+1

--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 04/12/2015 09:56 AM, TomR wrote:
Any other ideas or possibilities? Thanks.

Here is the photo:

http://i58.tinypic.com/16lzewp.jpg

Build a larger deck/porch (using treated lumber) over the top?

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:13:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 3:39:30 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:24:51 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and Google
searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of damaged
steps is a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

...git 'er done

Yep, that would be my plan, and that's what I will suggest to my friend.

That last video is by a mason who works in the same State where my friend's
property is located, but he is not close enough for my friend to use him for
the work. But, it is clear that doing a repair job for this type of step
damage does work. This guy doesn't use any special additives, cleaners,
bonding agents, or anchoring screws etc. The product that he uses is called
Cement All Rapid Set cement:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rapid-Set...0055/202188447


Each video had an intersecting approach. One used Tap-Cons like a
sort of "rebar" for big damage. The fast cure stuff makes sense -
finish in a day. Your friend has five (5) steps to fix - adapt and
overcome

The interesting thing with those screws was how easy the one he
was driving went in.... I think the screw idea sounds interesting,
but if they go in as easy as that one did, it would seem to me the
remaining concrete is in pretty bad shape. In that case, they
probably aren't doing much. If they go in like they would
in good concrete, then I think they could be a plus. But even then,
if they are worth it, IDK, but I guess on a step repair anything that
can make it more sound is good. Like Ed said, the thing you don't
want to happen is for it to fail later with no notice with someone on it.

I didn't look back at the video, ISTR the guy pre-drilled holes before
he drove the tap-cons? Did notice how easy they went in, too. Yes, Ed
was spot on about potential failure and injury.

Hope to hear back as to how things were fixed and turned out. Those
suggesting to use lumber for a new step maybe missing "curb appeal".

In ,
trader_4 typed:
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 3:39:30 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:24:51 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Oren typed:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:45:36 -0400, "TomR"
wrote:

Well, to help answer my own post, I just did some YouTube and
Google searches, and it looks to me like repairing these types of
damaged steps is a fairly common option.

Here are a few of the videos that I found as examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llxg17jOLIU

http://www.quikrete.com/athome/Video...rete-Edges.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rlVI88l2k

The interesting thing with those screws was how easy the one he
was driving went in.... I think the screw idea sounds interesting,
but if they go in as easy as that one did, it would seem to me the
remaining concrete is in pretty bad shape. In that case, they
probably aren't doing much. If they go in like they would
in good concrete, then I think they could be a plus. But even then,
if they are worth it, IDK, but I guess on a step repair anything that
can make it more sound is good. Like Ed said, the thing you don't
want to happen is for it to fail later with no notice with someone on
it.

I thought the same thing. But, I also noticed that I couldn't find any
other step repair videos that showed people using any type of anchoring
devices and/or wire mesh for this type of repair. That surprised me, plus
the person who did the last video is a mason by trade and he didn't mention
doing any anchoring etc.

I was expecting that someone else would have suggested using anchoring
screws or concrete nails, and maybe wire mesh, to help secure the repair --
but I didn't see that anywhere.

I once helped my uncle who was doing stucco on the side of a home and I
remember that he and I nailed wire mesh to the existing brick siding using
concrete nails before he did the new stucco. That's partly why I thought
something similar would be done with the step repair.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:22:33 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I thought the same thing. But, I also noticed that I couldn't find any
other step repair videos that showed people using any type of anchoring
devices and/or wire mesh for this type of repair. That surprised me, plus
the person who did the last video is a mason by trade and he didn't mention
doing any anchoring etc.

I was expecting that someone else would have suggested using anchoring
screws or concrete nails, and maybe wire mesh, to help secure the repair --
but I didn't see that anywhere.

I once helped my uncle who was doing stucco on the side of a home and I
remember that he and I nailed wire mesh to the existing brick siding using
concrete nails before he did the new stucco. That's partly why I thought
something similar would be done with the step repair.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:22:33 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I thought the same thing. But, I also noticed that I couldn't find any
other step repair videos that showed people using any type of anchoring
devices and/or wire mesh for this type of repair. That surprised me, plus
the person who did the last video is a mason by trade and he didn't mention
doing any anchoring etc.

I was expecting that someone else would have suggested using anchoring
screws or concrete nails, and maybe wire mesh, to help secure the repair --
but I didn't see that anywhere.

I once helped my uncle who was doing stucco on the side of a home and I
remember that he and I nailed wire mesh to the existing brick siding using
concrete nails before he did the new stucco. That's partly why I thought
something similar would be done with the step repair.

After seeing the tap-cons used, I started thinking about short pieces
of 3/8" rebar set in vertical. I've seen rebar used in foundations,
extending out when a new pad was poured. You may be able to cut a
piece of galvanized 3/8" wire mesh, with galvanized concrete nails...

Please let use know what your friend does for the fix.

On 4/12/2015 11:13 AM, wrote:
My first thought was to put in wooden steps, it does not require
the effort that patching or rebuilding concrete steps would
require. But the disposal of the old steps may be more of a
problem than what to replace them with...


One of my neighbors handled this by building wooden steps with a
railing right over/around the existing concrete steps. While he was at
it, he made the landing larger. Worked out nicely.

In ,
Oren typed:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:22:33 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I thought the same thing. But, I also noticed that I couldn't find
any other step repair videos that showed people using any type of
anchoring devices and/or wire mesh for this type of repair. That
surprised me, plus the person who did the last video is a mason by
trade and he didn't mention doing any anchoring etc. . . . ,
. . . ,
I once helped my uncle who was doing stucco on the side of a home
and I remember that he and I nailed wire mesh to the existing brick
siding using concrete nails before he did the new stucco. That's
partly why I thought something similar would be done with the step
repair.

After seeing the tap-cons used, I started thinking about short pieces
of 3/8" rebar set in vertical. I've seen rebar used in foundations,
extending out when a new pad was poured. You may be able to cut a
piece of galvanized 3/8" wire mesh, with galvanized concrete nails...

Apparently, based on the videos etc. (especially the last one), no anchoring
or wire mesh or rebar of any kind is needed. So, if it were me doing it, I
think I would just skip that.

Please let use know what your friend does for the fix.

If I find out what the final fix is, I'll pass it on.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:03:14 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Apparently, based on the videos etc. (especially the last one), no anchoring
or wire mesh or rebar of any kind is needed. So, if it were me doing it, I
think I would just skip that.

Agree. The last video is advice from a Mason

Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:33:36 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

I guess it all depends on exactly what is there now and how the steps were
built. Another possibility would be to look at nearby steps and see if they
all appear to have been built the same way at the same time. Maybe that
would give a clue as to what to do with these steps.

Good luck to your friends. It there any chance ADA compliance would
be necessary in the future? Say a wheel chair / walker
ramp...combined with a set of steps(design).

+1 I like your forethought. That is exactly what I did with my steps.

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

I used the tapcons years ago. one day the step collapsed, thje concrete the tapcon was in turned to dust.

IWe then built a wood landing and steps over the concrete ones.

that must of been 20 years ago, the wwood structure now needs replaced......

fortunately no one was seriously hurt when the step collapsed