I just need to debug WHY a central vacuum cleaner
has low vacuum suction at the hose.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

I snaked the hose itself, and it's not clogged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

Strangely, it seems that the vent to the outside has plenty
of outward force, yet the vacuum hose has almost no suction.

If there is a hole or a clog in the wall hoses, I don't know
how to find them. Is it normal, for example, to snake the
wall holes?

The container, in the basement, is not clogged, and seems (by
sound) to be running at speed (no abnormal noises).

I haven't taken it apart yet (it's in a nasty cramped space),
so, I ask you guys if you have any experience debugging why
a central vacuum would have:
1. Very low (almost zero) flow at the wall, but,
2. Decent air flow to the outside of the house.

Danny D. wrote:
I just need to debug WHY a central vacuum cleaner
has low vacuum suction at the hose.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

I snaked the hose itself, and it's not clogged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

Strangely, it seems that the vent to the outside has plenty
of outward force, yet the vacuum hose has almost no suction.

If there is a hole or a clog in the wall hoses, I don't know
how to find them. Is it normal, for example, to snake the
wall holes?

The container, in the basement, is not clogged, and seems (by
sound) to be running at speed (no abnormal noises).

I haven't taken it apart yet (it's in a nasty cramped space),
so, I ask you guys if you have any experience debugging why
a central vacuum would have:
1. Very low (almost zero) flow at the wall, but,
2. Decent air flow to the outside of the house.


Hi,
How many outlets do you have? Tried them all?
No utility outlet on the unit?

Tony Hwang wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:00:20 -0700:

How many outlets do you have? Tried them all?

There are at least a half dozen, and, I've tried most of them.
I can try more, but, I don't think it's the outlet itself.
They're all closed though (but I'm not sure what you're getting
at).

No utility outlet on the unit?

If you mean electricity, every single one has an electrical
outlet within a foot (since the vacuum beater brush runs
off of electricity); but the vacuum itself doesn't need
electrical outlets, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...abc9b313_b.jpg

On 12/30/2014 9:56 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I just need to debug WHY a central vacuum cleaner
has low vacuum suction at the hose.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

I snaked the hose itself, and it's not clogged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

Strangely, it seems that the vent to the outside has plenty
of outward force, yet the vacuum hose has almost no suction.

If there is a hole or a clog in the wall hoses, I don't know
how to find them. Is it normal, for example, to snake the
wall holes?

The container, in the basement, is not clogged, and seems (by
sound) to be running at speed (no abnormal noises).

I haven't taken it apart yet (it's in a nasty cramped space),
so, I ask you guys if you have any experience debugging why
a central vacuum would have:
1. Very low (almost zero) flow at the wall, but,
2. Decent air flow to the outside of the house.
If you have decent outside flow with ports blocked
it's leakage.

When disconnected, the ports should be blocked.
Make sure you don't have a leaky port behind the furniture
somewhere...with the system turned on.
Stick the hose to your vacuum gauge into the hose
and seal it up with duct tape.
Use it to measure the vacuum at each port.
Those numbers and a map of the piping should give you
an indication.
If the vacuum is high, but the flow is low, it's likely
a blockage.
If the vacuum is low, it's likely a leak somewhere upstream
of the lowest vacuum reading.

If you don't have a vacuum gauge, you can block the hose
except for a small hole and listen to the air flow
to get some idea whether it's a leak or blockage problem.

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

mike wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:48:14 -0800:

If you don't have a vacuum gauge, you can block the hose
except for a small hole and listen to the air flow
to get some idea whether it's a leak or blockage problem.

That's interesting. I have an old vacuum gauge that I
used in the olden days to test my vehicle.

I wonder if I can adapt it for the hose.

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting I set up
a vacuum test at each of the six wall ports. The wall port
with the least air flow would be closest to the leak.

I sure hope there isn't a leak in the walls though, as that
would be nearly impossible to find.

Do you know what *material* the pipes are in the wall?
Can they be snaked (in case it's a blockage)?

mike wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:48:14 -0800:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

That makes sense, but, (a) I have never seen a vacuum relief
valve (but I don't know what it would look like), and, (b)
there is no suction unless/until I open a spring-loaded hinged
port, and press in the hose.

When I press in the hose, an electrical contact is made,
which turns on the vacuum in the basement.

I don't know *any* other way to turn on vacuum, other than
to press in a hose. So, when all ports are closed, the
vacuum doesn't work. When any one port is opened, the vacuum
doesn't work.

It's only when electrical contact is made that the vacuum
turns on (but it's far too low to be useful).

It's night now, but I'll snap a picture of the vacuum
itself, in the basement, in the morning, and post.

On 12/31/2014 12:40 AM, Danny D. wrote:
mike wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:48:14 -0800:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

That makes sense, but, (a) I have never seen a vacuum relief
valve (but I don't know what it would look like), and, (b)
there is no suction unless/until I open a spring-loaded hinged
port, and press in the hose.

When I press in the hose, an electrical contact is made,
which turns on the vacuum in the basement.

I don't know *any* other way to turn on vacuum, other than
to press in a hose. So, when all ports are closed, the
vacuum doesn't work. When any one port is opened, the vacuum
doesn't work.

It's only when electrical contact is made that the vacuum
turns on (but it's far too low to be useful).

It's night now, but I'll snap a picture of the vacuum
itself, in the basement, in the morning, and post.

You probably have a rubber hose on your auto vacuum gauge.
Poke it down the suction hose and seal it with a rag or
duct tape. Doesn't have to be a perfect seal.
Stuff the other end of the suction hose into one of the ports
to turn on the system.
What you want to know is whether the vacuum goes up when
the volume goes down near zero. Based on your statement that
there's air coming out the exit side of the central system,
You probably don't have a blockage.
While you're in that mode, go around listening for air leaks.

Another thing you can try is to duct tape the suction
hose to a canister vac hose and plug that into the port.
Pull the fuse so the central vac doesn't start.
Turn on the canister and go to the central unit and listen
for air leaks.

Is the piping separate branches or taps of one branch?
You may be able to put the canister on one port and
stuff a rag up from the central sucker and learn which
branch has the leak and doesn't suck. If it's tapped, you may be able to
tie a rag on a string and learn which two ports straddle
the leak. Just let the vacuum suck the rag into the port.
If the leak is beyond the port, you'll be able to tell
that the rag gets sucked hard as it hits the tee.
Tie the rag securely, or you'll have a blockage
to go with your leak. Get help. You may need to pull the
motor fuse to get the rag back out without damaging something.
Paper towel on a string would be less risky. There's probably
screws sticking thru the pipe just where you don't want them.

If I had to bet money, I'd bet that the central system
is built from sections held together by something that's
no longer holding and they slipped apart. Snaking it probably
didn't help that problem.
I recently crawled around in the mud to fix my neighbor's
dryer vent that had just slipped apart when the tape failed.

The above is "stream of consciousness". Might be better to
do the easiest stuff first from the bottom up.

On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:13:44 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 12/31/2014 12:40 AM, Danny D. wrote:
mike wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:48:14 -0800:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

That makes sense, but, (a) I have never seen a vacuum relief
valve (but I don't know what it would look like), and, (b)
there is no suction unless/until I open a spring-loaded hinged
port, and press in the hose.

When I press in the hose, an electrical contact is made,
which turns on the vacuum in the basement.

I don't know *any* other way to turn on vacuum, other than
to press in a hose. So, when all ports are closed, the
vacuum doesn't work. When any one port is opened, the vacuum
doesn't work.

It's only when electrical contact is made that the vacuum
turns on (but it's far too low to be useful).

It's night now, but I'll snap a picture of the vacuum
itself, in the basement, in the morning, and post.

You probably have a rubber hose on your auto vacuum gauge.
Poke it down the suction hose and seal it with a rag or
duct tape. Doesn't have to be a perfect seal.

It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be consistent and
not change. Otherwise the reading from one outlet to another,
where he's looking for a difference in pressure to track down
where the leak is closest too, would be meaningless. Personally,
I don't think a rag or some tape is going to be easy to do.
He has to take an auto size hose, which is ~1/4" and get it connected
to something that is ~1 1/14".



Stuff the other end of the suction hose into one of the ports
to turn on the system.
What you want to know is whether the vacuum goes up when
the volume goes down near zero. Based on your statement that
there's air coming out the exit side of the central system,
You probably don't have a blockage.
While you're in that mode, go around listening for air leaks.

Another thing you can try is to duct tape the suction
hose to a canister vac hose and plug that into the port.
Pull the fuse so the central vac doesn't start.
Turn on the canister and go to the central unit and listen
for air leaks.

Is the piping separate branches or taps of one branch?
You may be able to put the canister on one port and
stuff a rag up from the central sucker and learn which
branch has the leak and doesn't suck. If it's tapped, you may be able to
tie a rag on a string and learn which two ports straddle
the leak. Just let the vacuum suck the rag into the port.
If the leak is beyond the port, you'll be able to tell
that the rag gets sucked hard as it hits the tee.
Tie the rag securely, or you'll have a blockage
to go with your leak. Get help. You may need to pull the
motor fuse to get the rag back out without damaging something.
Paper towel on a string would be less risky. There's probably
screws sticking thru the pipe just where you don't want them.

If I had to bet money, I'd bet that the central system
is built from sections held together by something that's
no longer holding and they slipped apart. Snaking it probably
didn't help that problem.
I recently crawled around in the mud to fix my neighbor's
dryer vent that had just slipped apart when the tape failed.

The above is "stream of consciousness". Might be better to
do the easiest stuff first from the bottom up.

On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:43:39 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:00:20 -0700:

How many outlets do you have? Tried them all?

There are at least a half dozen, and, I've tried most of them.
I can try more, but, I don't think it's the outlet itself.
They're all closed though (but I'm not sure what you're getting
at).


What he's getting at is are you sure one of them isn't stuck open?

You can also get a feel for the amount of suction at each by turning
the system on manually and then trying to lift each of the outlet
covers. If it's working properly there should be lots of suction,
it should be difficult to lift open the cover. IDK how your central
unit works, but on mine there is switch at the unit that I can use to
turn it on. If not, the systems typically use a Xformer with low
voltage and rely on the hose shorting the contacts at the outlet to
turn it on. I'd also be listening and looking at all the exposed
plumbing when it's running. Since you have good airflow out, I agree
it sounds like a break.

Ultimately it may come down to just cutting at select points to isolate
off major sections until you track it down. It's just plastic PVC pipe
and you can glue it back together. Hopefully it's not in a wall somewhere.
If there are any easy targets, like maybe the unit connects with a clamp,
you could disconnect there to verify that you have vacuum.

Someone mentioned a vacuum relief valve possibly being installed somewhere.
Forget about that, they don't exist.






No utility outlet on the unit?

If you mean electricity, every single one has an electrical
outlet within a foot (since the vacuum beater brush runs
off of electricity); but the vacuum itself doesn't need
electrical outlets, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...abc9b313_b.jpg

On 12/31/2014 12:56 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I just need to debug WHY a central vacuum cleaner
has low vacuum suction at the hose.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

I snaked the hose itself, and it's not clogged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

Strangely, it seems that the vent to the outside has plenty
of outward force, yet the vacuum hose has almost no suction.

If there is a hole or a clog in the wall hoses, I don't know
how to find them. Is it normal, for example, to snake the
wall holes?

The container, in the basement, is not clogged, and seems (by
sound) to be running at speed (no abnormal noises).

I haven't taken it apart yet (it's in a nasty cramped space),
so, I ask you guys if you have any experience debugging why
a central vacuum would have:
1. Very low (almost zero) flow at the wall, but,
2. Decent air flow to the outside of the house.

This is my 2nd central unit. The 1st one, for over 35 years, never had a
problem like low suction. This one, seems to be having similar problems
to yours. I have found that there is a screen protecting the fans and it
gets plugged with very fine dirt. So, I have to take another vacuum
cleaner and clean the central cleaner. So much for convenience. But, it
was a used machine in this case. My old unit didn't have any filters and
I guess that's why the fan bearings went. I understand that new units
have self cleaning pop filters. Now that cash is no longer a problem, I
am going to look into something better.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:43:39 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote, on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 23:00:20 -0700:

How many outlets do you have? Tried them all?

There are at least a half dozen, and, I've tried most of them.
I can try more, but, I don't think it's the outlet itself.
They're all closed though (but I'm not sure what you're getting
at).


What he's getting at is are you sure one of them isn't stuck open?

You can also get a feel for the amount of suction at each by turning
the system on manually and then trying to lift each of the outlet
covers. If it's working properly there should be lots of suction,
it should be difficult to lift open the cover. IDK how your central
unit works, but on mine there is switch at the unit that I can use to
turn it on. If not, the systems typically use a Xformer with low
voltage and rely on the hose shorting the contacts at the outlet to
turn it on. I'd also be listening and looking at all the exposed
plumbing when it's running. Since you have good airflow out, I agree
it sounds like a break.

Ultimately it may come down to just cutting at select points to isolate
off major sections until you track it down. It's just plastic PVC pipe
and you can glue it back together. Hopefully it's not in a wall somewhere.
If there are any easy targets, like maybe the unit connects with a clamp,
you could disconnect there to verify that you have vacuum.

Someone mentioned a vacuum relief valve possibly being installed somewhere.
Forget about that, they don't exist.






No utility outlet on the unit?

If you mean electricity, every single one has an electrical
outlet within a foot (since the vacuum beater brush runs
off of electricity); but the vacuum itself doesn't need
electrical outlets, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...abc9b313_b.jpg

Hi,
+1 If blockage is very near the unit, all outlets will have problem
but if blockage is else where away from the unit, some outlet might
normal or there is leak some where. Our system is Beam and at critical
points of the plumbing it is transparent so I can visually inspect.
Vacuum utility outlet usually mounted on the unit. Our unit is in the
garage, I use that utility outlet to clean car interior, etc. If motor
gets overloaded, there is a pop switch to turn off the motor B4 it burns
out. Only problem I had with ours was replacing brushes on the
Lamb blower motor.

mike wrote:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

Hmm,
How can you leave the motor running with all the ports closed?
Plugging the hose into port starts the motor. You mean plug the hose?

On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:51:42 AM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

Hmm,
How can you leave the motor running with all the ports closed?
Plugging the hose into port starts the motor. You mean plug the hose?

Mine has a manual switch on the unit itself that you can use to turn it
on with all the ports closed. The intent is so that you can use the built-in
port right on the unit. That and maybe to test if it works, etc.

The relief valve is a red herring. No such thing exists. I'm sure the
units are perfectly capable of running like that. It's like blocking
a shop vac, once it ceases to move air, the current levels out, the design
parameters aren't exceeded.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:40:09 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

It's night now, but I'll snap a picture of the vacuum
itself, in the basement, in the morning, and post.

Doesn't the vacuum canister have a filter? You might open the
canister, empty and clean it.

In article ,
"Danny D." wrote:

I don't know *any* other way to turn on vacuum, other than
to press in a hose. So, when all ports are closed, the
vacuum doesn't work. When any one port is opened, the vacuum
doesn't work.

It's only when electrical contact is made that the vacuum
turns on (but it's far too low to be useful).

Danny D.-

You have a leak, but you know that. How could there be a leak? Could a
rodent have eaten a hole in a vacuum hose inside the wall?

Lets assume that you do not have rodents in the wall. Then one end of a
vacuum hose has come loose. You have checked the end(s) at the main
unit, so the leak is most likely where the hose connects to an outlet.

If you can disassemble the outlets, you may find it to be an easy fix.

Are outlets daisy-chained, or is there a distribution manifold that
feeds each outlet (or group of outlets) separately? That is another
place a hose could come loose.

Fred

On 12/31/2014 7:51 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
mike wrote:

I have never seen an actual system, but I surmise that there
may be a vacuum relief valve somewhere so the motor gets
cooling air if you leave it on with all the ports closed.
That might confuse your diagnosis.

Hmm,
How can you leave the motor running with all the ports closed?
Plugging the hose into port starts the motor. You mean plug the hose?

Hmm, yourself.
I said I'd never seen an actual system.
That misconception has been corrected.
But plugging the hose would do it.

On 12/31/2014 12:56 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I just need to debug WHY a central vacuum cleaner
has low vacuum suction at the hose.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

I snaked the hose itself, and it's not clogged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

Strangely, it seems that the vent to the outside has plenty
of outward force, yet the vacuum hose has almost no suction.

If there is a hole or a clog in the wall hoses, I don't know
how to find them. Is it normal, for example, to snake the
wall holes?

The container, in the basement, is not clogged, and seems (by
sound) to be running at speed (no abnormal noises).

I haven't taken it apart yet (it's in a nasty cramped space),
so, I ask you guys if you have any experience debugging why
a central vacuum would have:
1. Very low (almost zero) flow at the wall, but,
2. Decent air flow to the outside of the house.




That discharge air has to come from some where. As
such, I suspect a cracked or disconnected tube on
the vacuum side, or maybe a leak around the canister
itself. Lot of leg work and taking stuff apart to find
the actual leak. There may be more than one leak.

This thread could last a while.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Use a plumbers video snake to inspect the pipes.

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On 1/2/2015 8:17 AM, wrote:

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My guess is a disconnected pipe, on the vacuum
side of the system.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

do you need and urgent loan to pay your debt? Have you been denied of loan from Bank? Or do you need a loan to pay off bills or set up your
company? worry no more, Your help comes now,MR WILSON OF GRACE OF GOD MICRO-FINANCE is a loan lending firm that offers all kinds of loan to people, firms who are in need of loan with a low interest rate of 2.5% contact us now and get your loan in the next 48 banking ours