Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape?
After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was wondering
if it was the paper stuff?

I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic
material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used since.
That stuff dont peel. I think that paper was a poor product right from
the start. But I guess that is all they had years ago.

I dont do much sheet rock work, but I intend to do some this winter to
get rid of some ugly paneling in a room, and I want to do it the best
way. That's if I dont put up the sheetrock myself, and hire a company
to tape it. I've always hated taping sheetrock, not to mention the mess
it makes all over the house with dust. I think the pros have some sort
of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them,
than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.

Either way, I dont want that paper tape. Most of it dont adhere well,
because the holes in it are too small for the joint compound to form a
bond. That mesh seems much more practical.

On the other hand, I wish they made sheetrock that did not have the
indented edges. I'd probably just put up the sheetrock and just put a
thin molding over the seams.

wrote:

I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
loose.

If you apply it properly, there's nothing wrong with paper tape. If you don't
put mud under the tape and attempt to just put mud over the top, it will peel
off.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 12:42:45 -0700, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

wrote:

I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
loose.

If you apply it properly, there's nothing wrong with paper tape. If you don't
put mud under the tape and attempt to just put mud over the top, it will peel
off.

+1

A Pro uses a taping gun that applies the mud. Come back with a knife
to smooth it out.

_Drywall taping tools, AutoTaper in action _

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUjSQFyYfn4

In article ,
says...

Most of it dont adhere well,
because the holes in it are too small for the joint compound to form a
bond. That mesh seems much more practical.

You need to put mud on the seam BEFORE applying the tape. You're not
supposed to try to squeeze it through those holes. Personally, while I
agree that the mesh is far easier to use, I find that the paper makes
for a less crack-prone seam. I'm sure it's a flaw in my technique (I'm
not a pro), but there it is.

On the other hand, I wish they made sheetrock that did not have the
indented edges. I'd probably just put up the sheetrock and just put a
thin molding over the seams.

We definitely disagree on that point. Butt joints drive me nuts!

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:38:50 -0600, wrote:

I think the pros have some sort
of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them,
than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.

There are various brands of sanders. One unit you attach your own
shop vac ... or

_Festool PLANEX Drywall Sander_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srk2IUpbHNQ

| Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape?
| After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was wondering
| if it was the paper stuff?
|
| I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
| loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic
| material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used since.

Me, too. I wouldn't use paper tape. It doesn't
allow for enough contact through it, with the result
that the top layer can pop off in a piece. The same
problem happens with the corner beads meant for
compound. They're prone to popped off pieces
of compound if the corner is hit.

I always use mesh tape and plastering beads.
(The mesh type.) I then always use Durabond
90 for the first coat. I've found that it's as tough
as plaster of paris while still having some flexibility.
After that the regular compound only needs to
do the job of smoothing, without needing to
provide strength, which it was never designed
for.
I think most drywallers who do it fulltime use
the paper tape, though I'm not certain. I don't
understand why, other than maybe saving a few
pennies. I've seen lots of paper seams split. I
don't think I've ever seen a mesh-taped seam
split. If I have to paint over new drywalling done
by such a contractor I always use phenoseal on
the inside corners after priming, to avoid ugly
cracks later.

Mayayana wrote:
Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape?
After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was
wondering if it was the paper stuff?

I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic
material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used
since.

Me, too. I wouldn't use paper tape. It doesn't
allow for enough contact through it, with the result
that the top layer can pop off in a piece. The same
problem happens with the corner beads meant for
compound. They're prone to popped off pieces
of compound if the corner is hit.

I always use mesh tape and plastering beads.
(The mesh type.) I then always use Durabond
90 for the first coat. I've found that it's as tough
as plaster of paris while still having some flexibility.
After that the regular compound only needs to
do the job of smoothing, without needing to
provide strength, which it was never designed
for.
I think most drywallers who do it fulltime use
the paper tape, though I'm not certain. I don't
understand why, other than maybe saving a few
pennies. I've seen lots of paper seams split. I
don't think I've ever seen a mesh-taped seam
split. If I have to paint over new drywalling done
by such a contractor I always use phenoseal on
the inside corners after priming, to avoid ugly
cracks later.

Unfortunately for most of the respondents opinions , paper tape IS
superior to any mesh WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED . Apparently most of you can't do
that . Your loss . The only place I use mesh is on ceiling joints , and only
those that are joints over a framing member .

--
Snag

| Unfortunately for most of the respondents opinions , paper tape IS
| superior to any mesh WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED .

You don't say on what basis you make that claim.
What do you feel is superior about paper tape, other
than perhaps price? And why would you use only
straight compound when you can get a far stronger
result with durabond?

I've been doing drywall, off and on, since 1980 and
have dealt with a lot of old drywall. I usually do the
drywall myself unless there's enough new construction
to justify getting a plasterer. (I've never actually called
in drywallers. Only plasterers.) I don't remember ever
seeing any problems with mesh tape other than cases
where it wasn't fully covered over. I have seen a lot of
faulty, popping paper tape jobs. I've also seen a lot
of water damage, which tends to curl and pop the
paper tape, requiring more repair than if it had been
mesh tape.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:09:48 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Unfortunately for most of the respondents opinions , paper tape IS
| superior to any mesh WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED .

You don't say on what basis you make that claim.
What do you feel is superior about paper tape, other
than perhaps price? And why would you use only
straight compound when you can get a far stronger
result with durabond?

I prefer paper tape. From experience and have used it since I was
knee-high to a grasshopper. Just my choice. Done right it works. Even
mesh tape can fail. Cost has never been a concern for me. Proper
application of either is the objective.

Use mesh tape if you like. (takes no beans off my plate)

Several points need making:

1. Most drywallers and DIY'ers alike really don't understand what the purpose of the joint tape is. People say "it's there to carry any tension across the joint without the joint breaking", but what does that really mean?.

Drywall is suprisingly strong and rigid considering what it's made of, and that's entirely because paper is very strong in tension. Try folding up a piece of paper and pulling on it hard enough that it stretches until it breaks, and you'll see what I mean. So, for drywall to bend, then the paper on either the front or back of the drywall has to stretch, and since it takes a lot of force to stretch paper, drywall is really quite rigid.

(This is exactly the difference between ordinary concrete and "reinforced" concrete. A reinforced concrete slab will have steel rebars embedded in the concrete near both it's upper surface and it's lower surface. The idea here is that for the concrete slab to bend, the steel rebars on either the top or bottom have to stretch. Steel is very strong in tension, and it's those steel rebars that prevent the slab from bending far enough for the concrete on either side to crack. This is why "reinforced" concrete slabs are so much stronger than concrete poured without any rebar, or with only a single layer of rebar in the middle of the slab's thickness (where the steel rebars will do next to nothing to help prevent the slab from bending.)) So, the steel rebars on either the top or bottom of the slab prevent the slab from bending far enough for the concrete on either side to crack. The tension in the steel prevents the concrete slab from bending just as the paper on either side of drywall prevent the gypsum drywall core from bending far enough to crack. It's exactly the same engineering principles at work in both cases.)

In drywall walls, the problem is at the joints. If a wall bends outwards (so that the face paper of the drywall stretches) then unfinished joint compound over the joints will crack before it stretches hardly any distance at all, and so the purpose of ANY drywall tape is to be strong enough in tension to prevent that drywall joint compound from stretching far enough that it breaks or cracks. That is, it's the paper's job to be strong enough in tension so that the joint compound doesn't stretch far enough to crack.

Using drywall tape on inside corners doesn't make any sense at all from an engineering perspective. Paper in that location won't do anything to prevent the joint compound from cracking if the joint flexes or moves, and the paper won't do anything to prevent that joint from flexing. So, while paper tape in the corners is gonna work a helluva lot better than fiberglas mesh in the corners, I really don't see any point or advantage in taping the inside corners. I do like using joint compound mixed with a lot of white wood glue in it to stick Trimtex PVC outside corner bead on outside corners tho.

2. Don't let butt joints be a pain in your butt.

Most home centers now sell "curved trowels". At first glance, a curved trowel looks identical to an ordinary plastering trowel. It's not until you set it down on a flat surface or sight along it's edge that you notice that the blade on it is curved. Specifically, it arches upward in the middle by about 1/8 of an inch:

http://bidatools.com/wp-content/uplo...l1-300x295.jpg

Since you hold the trowel at a comfortable angle to the wall when spreading joint compound with it, a curved trowel allows a total newbie to spread a perfectly symmetrical mound of joint compound over a butt joint with that joint compound no thicker than about 5/64ths of an inch thick in the middle. That is plenty thick enough to bury fiberglass mesh drywall tape in, but not thick enough to create a noticable "bump" on the wall over the joints, not even with wall mounted light fixtures. Years ago, it was rare to see curved trowels in home centers; you pretty well had to go to a drywall & plaster wholesaler to buy curved trowels, but now most hardware stores will carry them, and I think that's largely because of the internet causing a knowledge explosion just like the printing press and radio/television did. They make finishing butt joints (where you don't have a contoured edge on both sides of the joint) a relatively easy task.

(When my sister's finished basement got flooded, I helped her replace the water damaged drywall. We replaced the ruined drywall with Georgia Pacific Dens-Shield for water resistance, and my sister used my curved trowel to do all the butt joints where the Dens-Shield near the floor met the ordinary drywall higher up the wall. That was my sister's first time doing any kind of plastering work, and she has wall mounted light fixtures in her basement, and the job turned out perfect. You can't see any "bump" in the wall between the Dens-Shield below and the drywall above. She was very happy with the results.)

3. If you understand how it works, you can make it better.

You can actually make your drywall joints stronger if you wish. Instead of just a single layer of fiberglass mesh, put on two layers of fiberglass mesh tape, and then paint over the tape with white wood glue diluted with water. As that glue dries, it will bond both layers of fiberglas mesh together and to the paper on both sides of the joint, thereby making for not only a stronger joint (cuz of the two layers of tape) buy for a stronger bond between the tape and paper on both sides of the joint. That is, you're increasing the capacity of the tape to resist stretching, and therefore the joint compound in those joints will stretch even less than with a single layer of tape.

Similarily, if you ever encounter a situation where the face paper on drywall is largely or entirely removed, you can fix that by applying fiberglass mesh drywall joint tape over the area of missing paper, and then painting that fiberglas mesh tape with dilute white wood glue. Apply two layers of fiberglas mesh tape, with the top layer of strips perpendicular to the bottom layer of strips, and run the strips up onto the paper on both sides of the area where the paper is missing. Then, paint over everything with diluted white wood glue. As the glue dries, it will bond the fiberglas mesh to the gypsum core and the paper around the damaged area. What you're effectively doing is restoring the strength of the drywall by replacing the paper with something that is even stronger in tension than paper, and so the drywall can't bend without that fiberglas mesh tape stretching, and it's even harder to stretch than paper. So, from an engineering perspective, that repaired drywall is stronger than it was before the paper went missing. If the wall were to bend, the drywall would break first somewhere OTHER THAN the repaired area.

4. Moral of the story.
I'm not gonna get drawn up into the age old arguement over which is better, drywall joints finished with paper tape or fiberglas mesh drywall tape. But, I believe that every drywaller, DIY'er or newbie should have a roll of fiberglas mesh tape at hand whenever they're working with drywall because it allows them to repair damaged drywall in ways that paper tape just doesn't lend itself to.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:38:50 -0600, wrote:

I think the pros have some sort
of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them,
than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.

There are various brands of sanders. One unit you attach your own
shop vac ... or

_Festool PLANEX Drywall Sander_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srk2IUpbHNQ

There are also a number of dust control compounds. The dust falls to
the floor instead of becoming airborne. I've used it and it seems to
work as advertised.

Just hold a trouble light in one hand and a screen sander in the other hand to sand down the joint compound. The sharp angle the light will be hitting the wall will exagerate the bumps and the valleys giving you a much better idea of where you have to add joint compound and where you have to sand it off to make the wall smoother.

Slip a green Scotchbrite pad under the sanding screen on your hand sander. The sanding dust will go through the sanding screen and fall out of it's edges through the Scotchbrite pad.

If you want, hold your vaccuum cleaner hose under your hand sander as you tap the hand sander against the wall to knock all the sanding dust out of the Scotchbrite pad. Use a 60 grit sanding screen so that you make fast progress, and the joint compound you sand off is in large enough hunks to fall directly to the floor without spending any time getting there. The vaccuum cleaner will collect 90 percent of the dust before it hits the floor.

Wipe the wall down with a dry rag or brush after you finish sanding, and then vaccuum up with a wet/dry shop style vaccuum cleaner fitted with a pleated paper filter. It will NOT take you even a day to vaccuum up, let alone "weeks". It's really not anywhere near as hard as you're making it sound.

Also, you should be aware that there are different kinds of joint compounds.

"Regular" or "Taping" joint compound has the most glue in it and is used for taping the joints. The glue in it makes it stick better to the wall and the tape to stick better to it, but that glue also makes it hard to sand smooth.

"Topping" or "Finish" joint compound is used for the 2nd and 3rd coats over the joints, and has the least amount of glue in it. That makes it very easy to sand smooth.

"All Purpose" is about half way between Regular and Finish. It can be used for both taping and finishing, and it's made mostly so that drywall contractors don't have to carry two pails around in their truck with them everywhere they go. They can do the whole job with only one compound.

Your best bet is to buy regular joint compound for your first coat (which you won't be sanding) and allow the compound to shrink as it dries. Then, use Finish joint compound for the 2nd and 3rd coats, which will be easy to sand smooth. And, hold a trouble light close to the wall so that you can see when the joints are smooth, or where they need more joint compound, or where you need to sand more joint compound off. When your wall looks "not too bad" when viewed under such critical lighting, it'll look perfect under normal lighting.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:50:36 +0100, nestork
wrote:


I think the pros have some sort
of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them,
than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.

Just hold a trouble light in one hand and a screen sander in the other
hand to sand down the joint compound. The sharp angle the light will be
hitting the wall will exagerate the bumps and the valleys giving you a
much better idea of where you have to add joint compound and where you
have to sand it off to make the wall smoother.

The pros hardly have to sand at all. The old german guy who did the
taping in my daughter's basement laid it on so smooth that after a few
swipes with his sponge hardly any sanding was required.

Slip a green Scotchbrite pad under the sanding screen on your hand
sander. The sanding dust will go through the sanding screen and fall
out of it's edges through the Scotchbrite pad.

If you want, hold your vaccuum cleaner hose under your hand sander as
you tap the hand sander against the wall to knock all the sanding dust
out of the Scotchbrite pad. Use a 60 grit sanding screen so that you
make fast progress, and the joint compound you sand off is in large
enough hunks to fall directly to the floor without spending any time
getting there. The vaccuum cleaner will collect 90 percent of the dust
before it hits the floor.

The "low dust" compound is heavy and drops to the floor instead of
wafting about - Using a vacuum sander generates so much static you'd
think you were standing in the middle of a lightning storm
Wipe the wall down with a dry rag or brush after you finish sanding, and
then vaccuum up with a wet/dry shop style vaccuum cleaner fitted with a
pleated paper filter. It will NOT take you even a day to vaccuum up,
let alone "weeks". It's really not anywhere near as hard as you're
making it sound.

Also, you should be aware that there are different kinds of joint
compounds.

"Regular" or "Taping" joint compound has the most glue in it and is used
for taping the joints. The glue in it makes it stick better to the wall
and the tape to stick better to it, but that glue also makes it hard to
sand smooth.

"Topping" or "Finish" joint compound is used for the 2nd and 3rd coats
over the joints, and has the least amount of glue in it. That makes it
very easy to sand smooth.

"All Purpose" is about half way between Regular and Finish. It can be
used for both taping and finishing, and it's made mostly so that drywall
contractors don't have to carry two pails around in their truck with
them everywhere they go. They can do the whole job with only one
compound.

Your best bet is to buy regular joint compound for your first coat
(which you won't be sanding) and allow the compound to shrink as it
dries. Then, use Finish joint compound for the 2nd and 3rd coats, which
will be easy to sand smooth. And, hold a trouble light close to the
wall so that you can see when the joints are smooth, or where they need
more joint compound, or where you need to sand more joint compound off.
When your wall looks "not too bad" when viewed under such critical
lighting, it'll look perfect under normal lighting.

Old Johann used setting compound for the first layer and to bed the
tape. Sets up hard as stone in under 45 minutes and bonds the board
together permanently. You don't want to have to sand that stuff. Then
he layed on the all-purpose low dust compound with a 12" knife. A
quick sand the next morning and another thin coat over top, a swipe
with the damp sponge, and a final light sanding the next day and it
was ready for paint. Three years later and you can't see the joints
(or screws)

wrote:

Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape?
After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was wondering
if it was the paper stuff?

I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming
loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic
material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used since.
That stuff dont peel. I think that paper was a poor product right from
the start. But I guess that is all they had years ago.

I dont do much sheet rock work, but I intend to do some this winter to
get rid of some ugly paneling in a room, and I want to do it the best
way. That's if I dont put up the sheetrock myself, and hire a company
to tape it. I've always hated taping sheetrock, not to mention the mess
it makes all over the house with dust. I think the pros have some sort
of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them,
than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.

Either way, I dont want that paper tape. Most of it dont adhere well,
because the holes in it are too small for the joint compound to form a
bond. That mesh seems much more practical.

On the other hand, I wish they made sheetrock that did not have the
indented edges. I'd probably just put up the sheetrock and just put a
thin molding over the seams.

I'm no drywall pro, but I end up doing a bit of it every year. I only
use the fiberglass mesh joint tape and also only use the setting type 15
min compound. Crews doing big jobs may do ok with the pre-mix compound
since they have so much to do before they are ready for another coat,
but for smaller jobs the setting type lets you start and finish the job
in the same day with ease. Similarly a pro crew on a large job might use
paper tape and save a few bucks, but for a personal job the fiberglass
mesh tape is superior and the cost irrelevant.