SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.

On 12/21/2014 04:40 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.





Wow. Not the way I would have fixed it.

I just would have built an out-house in the back yard and used that
instead of the terlet.

"Arnie Goetchius"
wrote in message
SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the
basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The
pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that
could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the
water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to
close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and
the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the
valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the
float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.


So the valve shutoff point coincided with the top
of the overflow pipe?
Bending the rod lowered the shutoff point to get
it to work but why
did it change over time. Perhaps the float has a
very small leak and is
increasing the weight of the float causing it to
'sink' a bit and raising the
water level shutoff point.
phil k.

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Arnie Goetchius"
wrote in message
SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the
basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The
pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that
could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the
water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to
close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and
the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the
valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the
float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.


So the valve shutoff point coincided with the top
of the overflow pipe?
Bending the rod lowered the shutoff point to get
it to work but why
did it change over time. Perhaps the float has a
very small leak and is
increasing the weight of the float causing it to
'sink' a bit and raising the
water level shutoff point.
phil k.



That's possible. The main thing is that I was looking in the basement
where the pipes were vibrating instead of going right to the source
which was the toilet. If it happens again, I just replace the whole
water valve assembly. At least I now know to look at the toilet to
isolate the problem.

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Arnie Goetchius"
wrote in message
SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the
basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The
pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that
could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the
water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to
close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and
the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the
valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the
float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.


So the valve shutoff point coincided with the top
of the overflow pipe?
Bending the rod lowered the shutoff point to get
it to work but why
did it change over time. Perhaps the float has a
very small leak and is
increasing the weight of the float causing it to
'sink' a bit and raising the
water level shutoff point.
phil k.



Hi,
I replaced all float valve in all our toilets.

No, if it happens again, replace the rubber diaphragm in the fill valve. Only if that doesn't solve the problem would I recommend replacing the entire fill valve.

You see, the reason for the humming noise is because the rubber diaphragm in your toilet's fill valve is worn out.

The way ALL toilet fill valves work is by applying the same water supply pressure to both sides of a rubber diaphragm. However, the area exposed to that pressure is greater on the top side than the bottom, and since force is equal to pressure time area, then that larger area on the top side of the diaphragm results in a net force that pushes the diaphragm down, thereby shutting off water flow into the toilet.

When you flush the toilet, a mechanical linkage unplugs a port on the large area side of the rubber diaphragm, thereby releasing the pressure on that side and allowing the pressure on the small area side to pop the rubber diaphragm up so that water flows beneath it into the toilet tank.

Once the water level in the toilet tank lifts the float again, that same mechanical linkage then pushes the plug back into the rubber diaphragm on the large area side allowing the pressure to equalize on both sides of the rubber diaphragm, with the result that the net force shuts off water flow again. (The actual design of the rubber diaphragm is more complex than that, but the above is a perfectly correct way of understanding what's happening.)

The water mixing valves on clothes and dish washing machines work exactly the same way, except that an electric solenoid unplugs the hole on the large area side of the rubber diaphragm to release the pressure there. And, this is precisely the reason why your washing machine won't fill up with water if you unplug it. A spring holds the plug in place and a solenoid overpowers that spring force to pull that plug out to release the pressure on the large area side. That allows the pressure on the small area side to pop the rubber diaphragm up and allow water flow into the washing machine. Without electrical power to the solenoid, the spring holds the plug in place and the net force of the water pressure holds the diaphragm down in the closed position.

NOW, if the rubber diaphragm is worn out where that plug goes into the rubber, then you can have leakage of water at that point causing the rubber diaphragm to open and close rapidly as the pressure builds up on the large area side and drops due to leakage through that port. That rapid opening and closing of the fill valve causes the valve and the cold water supply pipe to the toilet to shake, resulting in the loud humming noise you heard. (I've heard that humming so loud that you'd have sworn it was the fog horn of an ocean liner warning you that you were about to be rammed.)

So, if it happens again, replace the rubber diaphragm in the fill valve. Any company that makes fill valves will sell the diaphragm as a replacement part, and will have a 1-800 number where you can phone to get directions on how to replace that rubber diaphragm. Only if replacing the rubber diaphragm doesn't work would I replace the entire fill valve (and I have had to do that to eliminate a fog horn noise, too).

And, if you're going to replace the fill valve, I'd recommend replacing it with a FluidMaster fill valve. They're very reliable and easy to repair.

After replacing the rubber diaphragm, maybe straighten your float arm so the toilet tank fills to it's proper level again.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:40:24 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.

Sounds to me like the washer is loose on the screw inside the toilet
ballcock. But newer types dont have washers. If it screws up again,
I'd just replace the whole ballcock unit, unless you want to rip it
apart and look for loose screws or ???

Sink Faucets, outside spigots, (or any faucets / valves) with loose
washers will also make pipes vibrate.

wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2014 17:40:24 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

SOLVED: I had a cold water pipe vibrating in the basement as a result of
flushing the toilet on the first floor. The pipes in the basement were
vibrating and making a loud humming sound that could be heard throughout
the house. The humming sound started as the water in the toilet was
about 90% full and the water valve started to close. As the water valve
was closing, the valve started to vibrate and the vibration was
broadcast all over the basement. As soon as the valve closed completely,
the humming stopped. We bent the rod to the float ball and that cured
the problem. Amazingly simple fix.

Sounds to me like the washer is loose on the screw inside the toilet
ballcock. But newer types dont have washers. If it screws up again,
I'd just replace the whole ballcock unit, unless you want to rip it
apart and look for loose screws or ???

Sink Faucets, outside spigots, (or any faucets / valves) with loose
washers will also make pipes vibrate.

It did happen again and I hit it with a hammer and that cured for the
time being. If it continues, I'll follow your suggestion. Maybe use a
Fluidmaster?

Faucets with loose washers can make noise, but most often it's when the faucet is nearly closed so that the movement of the washer can shut off and allow water flow repeatedly very rapidly. What happens is that water flows along the screw hole to pressurize the area behind the washer causing the washer to move forward and cover the seat, thereby stopping flow through the valve. But, that water supply pressure on the large area side (behind the washer) quickly drops as the water leaks out around the washer and the pressure on the small area side pushes the washer back again. It's the same thing that happens with the rubber diaphragm, but using the washer as the diaphragm instead.

But, if this is happening as your toilet finishes it's fill cycle after a flush, it's very likely to be that the rubber diaphragm in the fill valve is worn out. If it was a water shut off valve making that noise, it would be making that noise all the time the water is flowing through the shut off valve; not just at the end of the fill cycle when the toilet tank fill valve is also closing.

If it were me, I'd replace the rubber diaphragm in the toilet fill valve. If you don't know how to so that, you can also replace the entire fill valve. If you do, I think most people in here would recommend the Fluidmaster 400A fill valve, or any Fluidmaster fill valve because of it's reliability. I think all Fluidmaster fill valves use the same rubber diaphragm and operate the same way.

nestork wrote:
Arnie Goetchius;3325641 Wrote:

It did happen again and I hit it with a hammer and that cured for the
time being. If it continues, I'll follow your suggestion. Maybe use a
Fluidmaster?

Faucets with loose washers can make noise, but most often it's when the
faucet is nearly closed so that the movement of the washer can shut off
and allow water flow repeatedly very rapidly. What happens is that
water flows along the screw hole to pressurize the area behind the
washer causing the washer to move forward and cover the seat, thereby
stopping flow through the valve. But, that water supply pressure on the
large area side (behind the washer) quickly drops as the water leaks out
around the washer and the pressure on the small area side pushes the
washer back again. It's the same thing that happens with the rubber
diaphragm, but using the washer as the diaphragm instead.

But, if this is happening as your toilet finishes it's fill cycle after
a flush, it's very likely to be that the rubber diaphragm in the fill
valve is worn out. If it was a water shut off valve making that noise,
it would be making that noise all the time the water is flowing through
the shut off valve; not just at the end of the fill cycle when the
toilet tank fill valve is also closing.

If it were me, I'd replace the rubber diaphragm in the toilet fill
valve. If you don't know how to so that, you can also replace the
entire fill valve. If you do, I think most people in here would
recommend the Fluidmaster 400A fill valve, or any Fluidmaster fill valve
because of it's reliability. I think all Fluidmaster fill valves use
the same rubber diaphragm and operate the same way.

Home Depot has a DANCO Ball Cock Repair Kit which includes the diaphragm
and I may give that a try first before using the Fluidmaster. What with
the amount of guests coming here over the next week, I will wait until
the holidays are over so, in case of failure, I won't have to install a
temporary "terlet" in the back yard. :-)

Sounds like a plan.

You should be aware that even though all toilet fill valves work on the same pressure/area principle I described in a previous post, each fill valve manufacturer will use a different style of rubber diaphragm, so you can't use one manufacturer's rubber diaphragm to repair a different manufacturer's toilet fill valve.

So, make sure that this Danco repair kit is meant to repair your style of fill valve. Otherwise the parts in it won't fit. You might want to buy both that Danco repair kit and a new toilet fill valve so that if the Danco parts don't fit, you can opt for Plan B and replace the entire fill valve. These are mechanical parts, so you should be able to return them if they haven't been installed.

nestork wrote:
Arnie Goetchius;3326059 Wrote:

Home Depot has a DANCO Ball Cock Repair Kit which includes the
diaphragm
and I may give that a try first before using the Fluidmaster. What with
the amount of guests coming here over the next week, I will wait until
the holidays are over so, in case of failure, I won't have to install
a
temporary "terlet" in the back yard. :-)

Sounds like a plan.

You should be aware that even though all toilet fill valves work on the
same pressure/area principle I described in a previous post, each fill
valve manufacturer will use a different style of rubber diaphragm, so
you can't use one manufacturer's rubber diaphragm to repair a different
manufacturer's toilet fill valve.

So, make sure that this Danco repair kit is meant to repair your style
of fill valve. Otherwise the parts in it won't fit. You might want to
buy both that Danco repair kit and a new toilet fill valve so that if
the Danco parts don't fit, you can opt for Plan B and replace the entire
fill valve. These are mechanical parts, so you should be able to return
them if they haven't been installed.

Hi,
IMO, for few more dollars new fill valve can be had. Why mess with old
unit?

Cuz it's faster and easier to replace the rubber diaphragm in an existing fill valve than to replace the whole fill valve.

But, point is well made. The OP can do either one to solve the problem once and for all.

Arnie Goetchius wrote:
nestork wrote:
Arnie Goetchius;3325641 Wrote:

It did happen again and I hit it with a hammer and that cured for the
time being. If it continues, I'll follow your suggestion. Maybe use a
Fluidmaster?

Faucets with loose washers can make noise, but most often it's when the
faucet is nearly closed so that the movement of the washer can shut off
and allow water flow repeatedly very rapidly. What happens is that
water flows along the screw hole to pressurize the area behind the
washer causing the washer to move forward and cover the seat, thereby
stopping flow through the valve. But, that water supply pressure on the
large area side (behind the washer) quickly drops as the water leaks out
around the washer and the pressure on the small area side pushes the
washer back again. It's the same thing that happens with the rubber
diaphragm, but using the washer as the diaphragm instead.

But, if this is happening as your toilet finishes it's fill cycle after
a flush, it's very likely to be that the rubber diaphragm in the fill
valve is worn out. If it was a water shut off valve making that noise,
it would be making that noise all the time the water is flowing through
the shut off valve; not just at the end of the fill cycle when the
toilet tank fill valve is also closing.

If it were me, I'd replace the rubber diaphragm in the toilet fill
valve. If you don't know how to so that, you can also replace the
entire fill valve. If you do, I think most people in here would
recommend the Fluidmaster 400A fill valve, or any Fluidmaster fill valve
because of it's reliability. I think all Fluidmaster fill valves use
the same rubber diaphragm and operate the same way.

Home Depot has a DANCO Ball Cock Repair Kit which includes the diaphragm
and I may give that a try first before using the Fluidmaster. What with
the amount of guests coming here over the next week, I will wait until
the holidays are over so, in case of failure, I won't have to install a
temporary "terlet" in the back yard. :-)



Well, it happened again so I did some more investigating. When I was
working on it, I noticed that when I took the lid off and flushed the
toilet, there was no vibration. If I put the lid back on, the vibration
returned.

Looking at the flush mechanism, I observed an adjusting screw that might
be coming in contact with the lid. See photo with arrow pointing to
screw at

http://s571.photobucket.com/user/kat...oilet.jpg.html

I turned the screw 180 deg clockwise which lowered it slightly and now,
no more vibration!! I'll let it go for a week or two before I finally
decide that the problem has been solved and that there are no unintended
consequences from tightening the screw.

You probably have changed/lowered the level of the water in the tank a slight amount by turning that screw, just double check.

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You probably have changed/lowered the level of the water in the tank a slight amount by turning that screw, just double check.

Does the screw change the fill level or does it change the time
necessary to fill the tank? (changing the diaphragm up or down?)

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You probably have changed/lowered the level of the water in the tank a slight amount by turning that screw, just double check.

Does the screw change the fill level or does it change the time
necessary to fill the tank? (changing the diaphragm up or down?)

It changed the level. The water level was at 8" and is now at 7 3/4" so
I don't think it affects anything. Still handles big turds and toilet
paper with no problem :-)