Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

On 10/22/2014 06:03 AM, wrote:
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?




I've never used one, but if your house is reasonably new, it's not
difficult to breakup the concrete floor and add a drain pipe for a
conventional toilet.

My brother-in-law showed me how he did it and said breaking up the
concrete was simple. (His house was built in the 70's)


I decided to try it myself and could not break the concrete even with a
16 pound sledge hammer. The concrete here was put in in 1932 and bears
no resemblance to how they do things today.

On 10/22/2014 7:26 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/22/2014 06:03 AM, wrote:
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my
basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I
will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how
reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the
last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any
thoughts on these or to the reliability?




I've never used one, but if your house is reasonably new, it's not
difficult to breakup the concrete floor and add a drain pipe for a
conventional toilet.

My brother-in-law showed me how he did it and said breaking up the
concrete was simple. (His house was built in the 70's)


I decided to try it myself and could not break the concrete even with a
16 pound sledge hammer. The concrete here was put in in 1932 and bears
no resemblance to how they do things today.

Not familiar with them either but my son has one he put in for a
basement room a few years ago and I have not heard any comments about it.

Some people with sewer service don't have drainage to sewer below
basement level and this is only choice. I think some are water powered
and others electric. I would worry about electric if it failed. I have
a neighbor that pumps up septic gray water and it failed. Fortunately
septic tank was not in the house.

I installed one once. It worked fine for years,
although it didn't get heavy use. The design is
very simple. There's a heavy plastic, sealed tub
that goes under the toilet and has a pump. When
the water level reaches a certain point the pump
goes on. The install required building a platform,
(about 8" high, I think) to house the tub. The top
of that was then vinyl-tiled and the toilet installed
just as it would be in a normal floor. There was never
any problem with leaking or fumes, but it is basically
a septic tank sitting on your cellar floor.

The big challenge in most scenarios is having a
cellar ceiling high enough to accomodate the height
needed. There may also be other options, like a
pump-toilet-in-one. That might be worth looking
into.

wrote in message
...
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my
basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I will
install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it
is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is
brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the
reliability?

On 10/22/2014 8:42 AM, Mayayana wrote:
I installed one once. It worked fine for years,
although it didn't get heavy use. The design is
very simple. There's a heavy plastic, sealed tub
that goes under the toilet and has a pump. When
the water level reaches a certain point the pump
goes on. The install required building a platform,
(about 8" high, I think) to house the tub. The top
of that was then vinyl-tiled and the toilet installed
just as it would be in a normal floor. There was never
any problem with leaking or fumes, but it is basically
a septic tank sitting on your cellar floor.


I heard from a guy who worked in a place that had a
pump assembly at the toilet in the shop. He says that
he could identify the persons using the toilet by the
smell after each one. He tried to convince them to use
the toilet in the other section of the building, with
little success.

Point of mention this, is that if you download into
the toilet, you might want to find a way to run enough
water to eject the material, rather than leave it in
the tank.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/22/2014 9:19 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I heard from a guy who worked in a place that had a
| pump assembly at the toilet in the shop. He says that
| he could identify the persons using the toilet by the
| smell after each one. He tried to convince them to use
| the toilet in the other section of the building, with
| little success.
|
| Point of mention this, is that if you download into
| the toilet, you might want to find a way to run enough
| water to eject the material, rather than leave it in
| the tank.

The tank I dealt with is fairly big. Maybe 30"x40"x7".
It's not just a one-use holding tank. I never noticed
any smells. There's just the sealed intake and a pipe
outlet. The tank itself is one-piece. So it's no more
likely to leak than normal drain pipes or toilet seals.
I also wonder about the reasoning of your friend. If it
smells just after someone uses it, why would one think
that's due to a leak in the tank? Wouldn't it make more
sense to check for smells when it hasn't been used for
some time?


From what I remember, there was a rod that came out of
the top of the tank. Connected to the float that turned
on / off the pump. He thought the smell was escaping
through the seal around the rod. He worked in the room
next to the ejector toilet, and might have been working
in the room that contained the ejector pump. His actions
weren't based on some diagnostic, it was based on he
didn't like his place of employment to smell like a
bowel movement.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

| I heard from a guy who worked in a place that had a
| pump assembly at the toilet in the shop. He says that
| he could identify the persons using the toilet by the
| smell after each one. He tried to convince them to use
| the toilet in the other section of the building, with
| little success.
|
| Point of mention this, is that if you download into
| the toilet, you might want to find a way to run enough
| water to eject the material, rather than leave it in
| the tank.

The tank I dealt with is fairly big. Maybe 30"x40"x7".
It's not just a one-use holding tank. I never noticed
any smells. There's just the sealed intake and a pipe
outlet. The tank itself is one-piece. So it's no more
likely to leak than normal drain pipes or toilet seals.
I also wonder about the reasoning of your friend. If it
smells just after someone uses it, why would one think
that's due to a leak in the tank? Wouldn't it make more
sense to check for smells when it hasn't been used for
some time?

| From what I remember, there was a rod that came out of
| the top of the tank. Connected to the float that turned
| on / off the pump. He thought the smell was escaping
| through the seal around the rod. He worked in the room
| next to the ejector toilet, and might have been working
| in the room that contained the ejector pump. His actions
| weren't based on some diagnostic, it was based on he
| didn't like his place of employment to smell like a
| bowel movement.
|
His office was next to the bathroom. The pump "might"
have been in his room. That would be an oddly distant pump.
It would also imply that there were probably air gaps
between the bathroom and his office, since the drain pipe
would be having to go through that wall to reach the pump.
So I'm trying to point out what should be obvious: If your
office is next to a smelly bathroom, why would you assume
that there's a leak in the pipes, unless it smells long after
the bathroom has been used?

A mechanical float switch coming out of the top of the
tank does sound like a poor design, though. I'm imagining
something like the rubber seal on a clutch shaft.
There may be a number of designs. The one I used is
like a sealed septic tank with no realistic risk of leaks as
long as one doesn't puncture the tank. It was all PVC and
rubber connectors, like normal plumbing.

On 10/22/2014 10:06 AM, Mayayana wrote:
His office was next to the bathroom. The pump "might"
have been in his room. That would be an oddly distant pump.
It would also imply that there were probably air gaps
between the bathroom and his office, since the drain pipe
would be having to go through that wall to reach the pump.
So I'm trying to point out what should be obvious: If your
office is next to a smelly bathroom, why would you assume
that there's a leak in the pipes, unless it smells long after
the bathroom has been used?

CY: Dunno. You'll have to go ask him.


A mechanical float switch coming out of the top of the
tank does sound like a poor design, though. I'm imagining
something like the rubber seal on a clutch shaft.
There may be a number of designs. The one I used is
like a sealed septic tank with no realistic risk of leaks as
long as one doesn't puncture the tank. It was all PVC and
rubber connectors, like normal plumbing.


CY: Well, why don't you see if you can find the
guy who had the issue, and discuss it with him?
He used to live outside of Rochester, NY. I'm sure
you will have interesting discussion. I'll wait here.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:26:35 AM UTC-4, philo* wrote:
On 10/22/2014 06:03 AM, wrote:

Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?









I've never used one, but if your house is reasonably new, it's not

difficult to breakup the concrete floor and add a drain pipe for a

conventional toilet.



My brother-in-law showed me how he did it and said breaking up the

concrete was simple. (His house was built in the 70's)





I decided to try it myself and could not break the concrete even with a

16 pound sledge hammer. The concrete here was put in in 1932 and bears

no resemblance to how they do things today.

That assumes that the sewer line exits the house at basement floor level.
Many, probably most do not.

On 10/22/2014 09:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:
X

snip

That assumes that the sewer line exits the house at basement floor level.

In the North, where pipes could freeze it's a valid assumption.

Many, probably most do not.



In the South where pipes would not likely freeze, I'm sure you are right

wrote in message ...
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

If you're talking about flushing and having the waste flow up to the ceiling, then somebody is pulling your leg.

wrote in message
...
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my
basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I
will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how
reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last
thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on
these or to the reliability?

There are various types and designs. Some sit on the surface of the
basement and pump the sewage up to the sewer line that leads outside.
Others are really heavy duty and powerful and the pump is placed in a pit
that is dug below the basement floor.

The first type works well enough for a homeowner who wants a basement level
toilet for convenience and for careful use by the homeowner and his/her
family etc.

The second type costs a lot more, but it grinds up and pumps just about
anything and can tolerate use by tenants etc.

It might help if you said more about why you want one of these units, where
the existing horizontal drain line is located (below the floor, above the
floor by a few inches, or higher up in the basement).

If you respond back with more info, I'll post more info.

On 10/22/2014 03:59 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
m, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

If you're talking about flushing and having the waste flow up to the ceiling, then somebody is pulling your leg.




Huh

You don't pull your leg to flush a toilet

you pull that little chrome lever

"philo " wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2014 03:59 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
m, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

If you're talking about flushing and having the waste flow up to the ceiling, then somebody is pulling your leg.



Huh

You don't pull your leg to flush a toilet

you pull that little chrome lever

LOL!! After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

On 10/22/2014 07:34 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"philo " wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2014 03:59 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
m, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

If you're talking about flushing and having the waste flow up to the ceiling, then somebody is pulling your leg.



Huh

You don't pull your leg to flush a toilet

you pull that little chrome lever

LOL!! After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.






I caught your humor when you said "butt I can see"


LOL!

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:35:37 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 10/22/2014 7:26 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/22/2014 06:03 AM, wrote:
Hello there. I want to install one of those flush-up toilets in my
basement. Plumbing isn't a problem, the pipes run right above where I
will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how
reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the
last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any
thoughts on these or to the reliability?




I've never used one, but if your house is reasonably new, it's not
difficult to breakup the concrete floor and add a drain pipe for a
conventional toilet.

My brother-in-law showed me how he did it and said breaking up the
concrete was simple. (His house was built in the 70's)*


I decided to try it myself and could not break the concrete even with a
16 pound sledge hammer. The concrete here was put in in 1932 and bears
no resemblance to how they do things today.

And the concrete gets harder every year.

Not familiar with them either but my son has one he put in for a
basement room a few years ago and I have not heard any comments about it.

Some people with sewer service don't have drainage to sewer below
basement level and this is only choice. I think some are water powered
and others electric. I would worry about electric if it failed.

If they go into the basement bathroom and the light won't go on, they
should use another bathroom!

I have
a neighbor that pumps up septic gray water and it failed. Fortunately
septic tank was not in the house.

LOL

http://www.saniflo.com/

http://www.upflushtoilet.com/

http://www.saniflostore.com/

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...84.T3Bh_XMdOPA

More below

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:34:57 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"philo " wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2014 03:59 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
m, the pipes run right above where I will install it on the wall. My concern is the action itself and how reliable it is. You can't always believe the manufacturer and the last thing I need is brown water (or worse) in my basement. Any thoughts on these or to the reliability?

If you're talking about flushing and having the waste flow up to the ceiling, then somebody is pulling your leg.



Huh

You don't pull your leg to flush a toilet

you pull that little chrome lever

LOL!! After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

My basement is NOT lower than the sewer. In fact it, and I think every
townhouse in the n'hood, has a rough-in for installing a toilet in the
basement. How I'm supposed to know exactly where to chip away the floor
to find the drain, I don't know, but that is the plan. (The water
supply pipes would have to be run.)

But the 4 lowest houses flood a little when it rains enough, mine and
the three next to me.

We had a long thread here a while back when my new next door n'bor
wanted a bathroom in the basement for his mother-in-law. I told him he
couldn't do it, but then asked here and found out about upflush toilets.

If you give me a few minutes, I'll post the email I sent him.

That model sits on the floor, not below the floor, but has an electric
macerator, that starts chopping and flushing within a iirc 2 seconds of
flushhing the toilet, so afaik, it's emptied after every flush, and not
like a septic tank, though now I would want to verify that. Maybe I
jumped to a conclusion. Or maybe it's filled with clean water and a
trfile of what didnt' get pumped out in the 20? or 30? seconds it runs
after a flush.

Yesterday, as those who read my other thread know, I was at a plumbing
supply store and for the sake of my neighbor, I asked in the showroom if
they had upflush toilets. He said they can order them. I asked if he
had a brochure. He was gone for almost 10 minutes and had xeroxed maybe
15 pages about a different brand. I have to read it, and then I'll give
it to the neighbor. The product are Saniplus and Sanibest. They look
more complicated than the other brand but maybe not.

The neighbors have been here for months but haven't started on the
powder room (w/ shower?). The daughter said something about it being
expensive -- I think they thought it woudl be less -- but it's a
pittance compared to the cost of the house! The hardware for the one I
told them about, the first one above, was about $1000 and the plumbing
cost seems like it should be practically nothing. One pipe to the
ceiling, across 4 or 5 feet, and a Y connection to the drain that is
already there.

The hardware cost was about 1000

Here are the links I sent to my neighbor:

http://www.saniflo.com/

http://www.upflushtoilet.com/

http://www.saniflostore.com/

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...84.T3Bh_XMdOPA

"micky" wrote in message LOL!!

After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that
was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be
necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

My basement is NOT lower than the sewer. In fact it, and I think every

Then I would install a drain and connect to the sewer. If you don't have to pump crap up and over head, you're better off. Later on you will regret installing something that grinds up waste and pumps it up across the ceiling. I can foresee all sorts of ways it could leak. And when you have to rebuild the pump..... not for me. This is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:33:51 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"micky" wrote in message LOL!!

After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that
was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be
necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

My basement is NOT lower than the sewer. In fact it, and I think every

Then I would install a drain and connect to the sewer.

If you're talking to me or my next-door neighbor, you must have skipped
the part where the sewer already backs up into the basement. Putting in
a toilet, whose top is lower than the top of the laundry sink, probably
means this overflowing would happen more often, and there's no simple
way to plug a toilet like I plug my sink.

Oh, I just said it floods. It floods by backing up through the sink
drain.


If you don't have to pump crap up and over head, you're better off. Later on you will regret installing something that grinds up waste and pumps it up across the ceiling. I can foresee all sorts of ways it could leak. And when you have to rebuild the pump..... not for me. This is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

"micky" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:33:51 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"micky" wrote in message LOL!!

After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that
was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be
necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

My basement is NOT lower than the sewer. In fact it, and I think every

Then I would install a drain and connect to the sewer.

If you're talking to me or my next-door neighbor, you must have skipped
the part where the sewer already backs up into the basement. Putting in
a toilet, whose top is lower than the top of the laundry sink, probably
means this overflowing would happen more often, and there's no simple
way to plug a toilet like I plug my sink.

If the sewer back up problem is fixed, would the toilet & sinks drains flow by gravity to the sewer? If so, that would be my first thought instead of pumping s*** up to the ceiling. Just sounds to me like this is a mess just waint to happen down the road.











Oh, I just said it floods. It floods by backing up through the sink
drain.


If you don't have to pump crap up and over head, you're better off. Later on you will regret installing something that grinds up waste and pumps it up across the ceiling. I can foresee all sorts of ways it could leak. And when you have to rebuild the pump..... not for me. This is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:17:51 -0700, "Sasquatch Jones"
wrote:

"micky" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:33:51 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"micky" wrote in message LOL!!

After reading the postings - very interesting. I never had a basement that
was lower than the sewer connection, butt I can see where that would be
necessary and didn't know anything like that existed.

My basement is NOT lower than the sewer. In fact it, and I think every

Then I would install a drain and connect to the sewer.

If you're talking to me or my next-door neighbor, you must have skipped
the part where the sewer already backs up into the basement. Putting in
a toilet, whose top is lower than the top of the laundry sink, probably
means this overflowing would happen more often, and there's no simple
way to plug a toilet like I plug my sink.

If the sewer back up problem is fixed, would the toilet & sinks drains flow by gravity to the sewer?

Yes, but the sewer won't be fixed.

Even though they were very nice, I've lost interest in dealing with the
county. The county was very helpful 30 years ago, and put in
waterproof manhole covers in two places, but the guy I talked to who
ordered that said it probably wouldn't help and it didn't. I guess the
sewer floods up stream -- when the stream rises higher than the
manholes.

But say they fix it. Then one day they have to open one of the problem
manholes and they don't seal it again, maybe because they plan to come
back fairly soon, or maybe they forgot or maybe it's not on the work
order or maybe they tried and did a bad job, or maybe they did a good
job, but just as you think the new drain pipe will start leaking, so too
does the manhole waterproofing start leaking. I think one of those is
more likely to happen than that his drain pipe will start leaking, and
so we both, in fact all four of us, have to be prepared for it.

My neighbor's first reaction was also to get the county to fix the
manholes. At the time I thought he was putting the bathroom in
immediately and I told him he couldn't get the county to act that
quickly. Now that several months have gone by, maybe he could have
gotten them to do something in all this time -- maybe he still could --
but he hasnt' said anything to me. Of course he doesn't say anything
to me about anything important. And when I email, he's only replied
once with a one-line reply.

The other two neighbors who have flooding are about 4" higher than our
houses so they may flood less often (which is every one or two years if
no precautions are taken.) . I've never quite figured that out.

If so, that would be my first thought instead of pumping s*** up to the ceiling. Just sounds to me like this is a mess just waint to happen down the road.

Aw, come on. Each of us already 20 feet of sewage pipe in the house
that hasn't leaked a bit in 30 years, and probalby won't for another 50.
There's no reason the new 14 feet will leak if they're put in right, and
if they do leak, they can be flushed with clean water by repeatedly
flushing the toilet, then taken apart and repaired like anytihing else.


Oh, I just said it floods. It floods by backing up through the sink
drain.


If you don't have to pump crap up and over head, you're better off. Later on you will regret installing something that grinds up waste and pumps it up across the ceiling. I can foresee all sorts of ways it could leak. And when you have to rebuild the pump..... not for me. This is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

None of the things someone describes in the 3 lines above are a
catastrophe. Dirty and disgusting, yes, if the worst happens, but it
can all be cleaned up with paper towels** and thrown in the trash. One
could even wear disposeable rubber gloves. I'm not putting in
another bathroom but if I were, any crap involved would be my own, and
most people tolerate their own crap much better than anyone else's.
In fact ever since I had an obstructed bowel and vomited 23 times in 4
hours, including vomiting out thick black stuff which I think came all
the way from my intestines, which when I got out of the hospital I had
to clean up, I'm a lot more tolerant than I used to be. But even
before then, I could do it.

**Bounty really are the best paper towels in the USA, the toughest, just
like their advertisements say. Sometimes I use cheaper ones for
simpler things, but the ones that are closest to being cloth rags, yet
intended to be dsposealble, are Bounty.

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 12:15:00 PM UTC-4, philo* wrote:
On 10/22/2014 09:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:
X

snip

That assumes that the sewer line exits the house at basement floor level.

In the North, where pipes could freeze it's a valid assumption.


It's not a valid assumption in the North. I've lived in NJ most of my
life, been in many homes here. I've never seen a home yet where the
sewer line exited at basement floor level. My current home, connects
to municipal sewer and the pipe is about 5 ft above basement level. If
it exited at basement floor level, the cost of the sewer system would be
increased by a lot, because it would all have to be buried considerably
deeper than basement floor, ie 10+ ft deep.
Also, there are many homes with their own septic tank, and those can't
exit at basement floor level. I think exiting below the basement floor
is mostly seen in cities.


Many, probably most do not.



In the South where pipes would not likely freeze, I'm sure you are right

Freezing isn't the issue. Mine exits ~5 ft above the basement floor, but
that still puts it well below the frost line.

On 10/25/2014 8:23 AM, trader_4 wrote:

It's not a valid assumption in the North. I've lived in NJ most of my
life, been in many homes here. I've never seen a home yet where the
sewer line exited at basement floor level. My current home, connects
to municipal sewer and the pipe is about 5 ft above basement level. If
it exited at basement floor level, the cost of the sewer system would be
increased by a lot, because it would all have to be buried considerably
deeper than basement floor, ie 10+ ft deep.


My parents house at present, the sewer is
about five feet off the floor, as you say.
Last house, we did have toilet in the cellar,
but the toilet base was maybe foot or two
higher than the sewer.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Sorry, that's too much for me to read. Give us the Readers Digest version as to why you want to pump the waste up rather than let it gravity feed to the sewer?

"micky" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:17:51 -0700, "Sasquatch Jones"