This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint to
adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you can
peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple
things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe over
the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've
seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels off
underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?


Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
other areas -- no problems.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 07:58:30 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint to
adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you can
peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple
things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe over
the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've
seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels off
underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?


Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
other areas -- no problems.

I'm thinking the tack rag may be causing the problem, maybe not tough.

I'd try Kilz primer over the area: (aerosol spray can)

"KILZ Complete® interior / exterior aerosol primer provides a mildew
resistant coating that blocks out most stains cause by water, smoke,
tannin, ink, pencil, felt marker, grease and graffiti, and seals pet
and smoke odors."

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e28ad6ea3996c310VgnVCM10000017 6310acRCRD

https://tinyurl.com/nxpg7jw

First, never use Glidden paint. It's junk. I used
their oil base exterior solid house stain once, many
years ago. Their own specsheet said it was 30%
water! The stain went on thick but immediately
settled, as though it were pumped with air. The
result was very poor coverage. Apparently they
were watering it down by about half, adding an
emulsifier, then adding a thickener to make it seem
normal. The price was right -- $10 vs $25 for Benjamin
Moore. But paint that's no good is no bargain at
any price.

It's worth buying real paint. (Pratt and Lambert. Sherwin
Williams. Benjamin Moore has been downgraded but
still isn't bad. A lot of people like California. I haven't
tried it enough to know.)

For the current case, it sounds like you got
something onto the compound. I'd try skim
coating again and/or using a wallboard primer
first.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xmz87tra2cx0wh@ajm...
| This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
| and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.
|
| One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint to
| adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you can
| peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple
| things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe over
| the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've
| seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels off
| underneath layers.
|
| Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
| long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
| start over, but that is not a viable option this time.
|
| Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?
|
|
| Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
| other areas -- no problems.

On 09/30/2014 9:58 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint
to adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you
can peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done
multiple things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag
to wipe over the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I
swear I've seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer
simply peels off underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?


Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
other areas -- no problems.

What's under the skim coat??? Sounds like perhaps something underneath
is volatile and outgassing or the like.

What about primer?

Despite the other poster's complaint Glidden (and not he was
complaining of a stain and not a paint, anyway), I've used their
products quite satisfactorily and believe they're in the same class as
most others as long as you compare roughly equivalent price-point products.

Depending on the answer to the previous queries, you _might_ have some
luck with a shield coat of cut shellac as a barrier before priming.

--

On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:46:52 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 09/30/2014 9:58 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.

and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.



One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint

to adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you

can peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done

multiple things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag

to wipe over the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I

swear I've seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer

simply peels off underneath layers.



Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not

long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and

start over, but that is not a viable option this time.



Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?





Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.

other areas -- no problems.



What's under the skim coat??? Sounds like perhaps something underneath

is volatile and outgassing or the like.



What about primer?



Despite the other poster's complaint Glidden (and not he was

complaining of a stain and not a paint, anyway), I've used their

products quite satisfactorily and believe they're in the same class as

most others as long as you compare roughly equivalent price-point products.



Depending on the answer to the previous queries, you _might_ have some

luck with a shield coat of cut shellac as a barrier before priming.


Whatever Glidden is or isn't, I agree I don't think it's the source
of the problem. I would apply a primer, then the top coat. I guess
it's possible the mud was contaminated with something. I've never
seen this happen.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:04:52 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

I would apply a primer, then the top coat. I guess
it's possible the mud was contaminated with something. I've never
seen this happen.

- The surface must be clean, free of dust, grease, wax, peeling paint,
mold, mildew and wallpaper paste. If washing is necessary, use a
non-soapy detergent or a TSP substitute. Rinse well and allow to dry.

- Peeling or Checked Paint: Scrape off loose paint and sand to a
smooth surface.

- Glossy Surfaces: For maximum adhesion, scuff sand the surface
thoroughly before priming.

(per Kilz primer use)

TSP should be the red box and not the green box, located on the paint
aisle.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:37:56 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

First, never use Glidden paint. It's junk. I used
their oil base exterior solid house stain once, many
years ago. Their own specsheet said it was 30%
water! The stain went on thick but immediately
settled, as though it were pumped with air. The
result was very poor coverage. Apparently they
were watering it down by about half, adding an
emulsifier, then adding a thickener to make it seem
normal. The price was right -- $10 vs $25 for Benjamin
Moore. But paint that's no good is no bargain at
any price.

It's worth buying real paint. (Pratt and Lambert. Sherwin
Williams. Benjamin Moore has been downgraded but
still isn't bad. A lot of people like California. I haven't
tried it enough to know.)

For the current case, it sounds like you got
something onto the compound. I'd try skim
coating again and/or using a wallboard primer
first.

+1.
He has a lot of trouble with paint. "Skim coat?"
Use a real primer, and real paint.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xmz87tra2cx0wh@ajm
This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint
to
adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you
can
peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple
things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe
over
the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've
seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels
off
underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?


Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
other areas -- no problems.

What KIND of Glidden paint? What KIND of primer?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Robert:

I've come across this problem many times before, and generally it's because the joint compound you used was thinned too much with water in the area that's giving you problems.

In my case, I mix my own joint compounds by adding white wood glue to a powdered Topping joint compound. I use Synko ProSet 90 Lite Sand. The more glue I add, the better it sticks and the harder it dries but the harder it is to sand smooth.

However, if I add too much water to the joint compound, most commonly by misting the surface of the joint compound with a spray bottle while I'm trowelling it smooth, the glue holding the gypsum together gets washed away, and the joint compound dries too powdery to avoid problems when you start trying to prime and paint it.

So, what's actually happening here is that your paint or primer IS STICKING to the gypsum particles on the surface of the wall as well as can be expected. It's just that those particles aren't sticking well to the particles behind them, and that's what's causing you to believe the paint isn't sticking.

You can prove this to yourself by applying a coloured paint to that area of the wall. When that coloured paint dries, peel it off and you'll see that the backside of the paint is white because of the gypsum particles adhering to it. That is, the paint is sticking to the joint compound on the wall, but the joint compound isn't sticking to itself, and you're misinterpreting that to mean that the paint isn't sticking. It's like pouring tar onto a sandy beach; the tar will stick to the sand grains on the surface, but they won't be sticking to the ones behind them, so it will appear that the tar isn't sticking to the beach.

The fact that you went through several tack cloths wiping the joint compound down also suggests that the joint compound doesn't have enough glue in it to stick together sufficiently well to avoid painting problems. You shouldn't have needed to use anything more than a dry rag to wipe the sanding dust off of the joint compound. If the joint compound had sufficient glue in it, the sanding dust would have wiped off and the underlying gypsum would have been consolidated enough to paint without problems.

I would scrape that weak joint compound off the wall with a paint scraper and do that one area over again. This time, don't spray the joint compound with water while trowelling it to get it smooth; buy a TOPPING or "FINISH" joint compound and sand it smooth.

PS:
Also, I think it's just too simplistic to say "It's cuz the paint you used is garbage." If that were the case, you'd be having the same problem everywhere you used that paint, and everyone who bought Glidden paint would be having similar problems... which would lead to class action law suits and Glidden going out of business. I've used Glidden paint in the past and had no troubles with it.

On 9/30/2014 10:58 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.
and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint
to adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you
can peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done
multiple things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag
to wipe over the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I
swear I've seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer
simply peels off underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not
long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and
start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?


Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.
other areas -- no problems.

Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read label
for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read label
| for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime
those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall.
Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster
or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea
questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel
because it wasn't primed first. The main function of
priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent
surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better
coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:12:00 -0700, Mayayana
wrote:

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read
label
| for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime
those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall.
Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster
or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea
questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel
because it wasn't primed first. The main function of
priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent
surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better
coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.



this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and paint
adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky
primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a lot
of work]

One thing you can try, and which will probably work, is to paint over the joint compound in that area with diluted white wood glue. Basically, you mix what wood glue into water, and use that to paint over the joint compound in your problem area. The dry joint compound will suck in the liquid, and the liquid will glue all the gypsum particles together as the glue dries. There's no hard and fast rule as to how much glue to mix with how much water. Basically, you want to solution to be thin enough to be sucked into the joint compound by capillary pressure. If you have too much glue, the solution will be too viscous to do that. So, perhaps mix up a fair bit of quite dilute glue, and apply multiple coats. That way, with each coat you introduce more glue into the problematic joint compound, gradually making it harder and more strongly consolidated.

But, never ever paint directly over dried white wood glue because the moisture in the new paint or primer will re-emulsify the glue causing the joint compound to loosen up, and you'll have a mess on your hands. So, after painting the dilute glue on and allowing it to dry overnight, apply a skim coat of joint compound over that area (and after allowing that skim coat to dry) THEN paint.

Or, at least that's the way I'd proceed if you don't want to scrape off the existing joint compound and start over.

On 10/01/2014 9:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
....

this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and
paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.
....

Problem is, you've still not addressed any of the ?? raised regarding
what's the actual details of the situation the fill/skim is covering;
clearly if you used the same material here as in other locations there's
something going on at that location that, unless cured, probably won't
make any difference if repeat the same process yet again (the old saw of
"the definition of insanity is..." comes to mind ).

There's _SOMETHING_ cause the lack of adhesion but what the cure is is
completely impossible to guess unless and until can get at least some
idea of what that causative agent might be.

If it were mine, likely I'd just cut the offending area out back to next
two adjacent studs and patch in a new piece of drywall and refinish and
quit trying to salvage a small spot.

--

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:15:46 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.



this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and paint
adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky
primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a lot
of work]

Let me ask. I think you said you used a pre-mix compound for the skim
coat. Did you mix the compound BEFORE you applied it?

On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:58:30 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:
This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too.

and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.



One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint to

adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you can

peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple

things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe over

the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've

seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels off

underneath layers.



Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not

long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and

start over, but that is not a viable option this time.



Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?





Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound.

other areas -- no problems.

Interesting problem. I had a very similar issue with Glidden paint that a friend purchased at Wal-Mart. It actually lifted *old* paint off of joint compound. I blamed the last painter for not letting the compound completely set, but now I'm not so sure.

nate

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:39:26 -0700, dpb wrote:

On 10/01/2014 9:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
...

this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and
paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.
...

Problem is, you've still not addressed any of the ?? raised regarding
what's the actual details of the situation the fill/skim is covering;
clearly if you used the same material here as in other locations there's
something going on at that location that, unless cured, probably won't
make any difference if repeat the same process yet again (the old saw of
"the definition of insanity is..." comes to mind ).

There's _SOMETHING_ cause the lack of adhesion but what the cure is is
completely impossible to guess unless and until can get at least some
idea of what that causative agent might be.

If it were mine, likely I'd just cut the offending area out back to next
two adjacent studs and patch in a new piece of drywall and refinish and
quit trying to salvage a small spot.

--

what? Yes, it is EXACTLY like other areas [even larger near-by adjacent]
that do NOT have a problem.

Can't rip out down to adjacent studs, not that type of structure.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:24:29 -0700, nestork
wrote:


...snip....
One thing you can try, and which will probably work, is to paint over
the joint compound in that area with diluted white wood glue.
Basically, you mix what wood glue into water, and use that to paint over
the joint compound in your problem area. The dry joint compound will
suck in the liquid, and the liquid will glue all the gypsum particles
together as the glue dries. There's no hard and fast rule as to how
much glue to mix with how much water. Basically, you want to solution
to be thin enough to be sucked into the joint compound by capillary
pressure. If you have too much glue, the solution will be too viscous
to do that. So, perhaps mix up a fair bit of quite dilute glue, and
apply multiple coats. That way, with each coat you introduce more glue
into the problematic joint compound, gradually making it harder and more
strongly consolidated.

But, never ever paint directly over dried white wood glue because the
moisture in the new paint or primer will re-emulsify the glue causing
the joint compound to loosen up, and you'll have a mess on your hands.
So, after painting the dilute glue on and allowing it to dry overnight,
apply a skim coat of joint compound over that area (and after allowing
that skim coat to dry) THEN paint.

Or, at least that's the way I'd proceed if you don't want to scrape off
the existing joint compound and start over.

That's EXACTLY the answer I was thinking in terms of, except I
forgot/missed about not applying paint over the glue base! I never
thought of another skim coat to 'passify' the glue's surface.

Plus, multiple coats of glue from watery to thicker sound right, too.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 10:48:06 -0700, N8N wrote:

...snip....

Interesting problem. I had a very similar issue with Glidden paint that
a friend purchased at Wal-Mart. It actually lifted *old* paint off of
joint compound. I blamed the last painter for not letting the compound
completely set, but now I'm not so sure.

nate

Interesting. I have an area down a gallery hallway that has a patch like
that! The original Dunn-Edwards was sprayed on and adheres well everywhere
but a small patch along a doorway. As I painted more Dunn-Edwards over the
area, the stuff underneath started to roll up?! I simply stripped the
area, reskim coated, and painted with no further problems.

Now you have ME wondering.

Note, this is Dunn Edwards paint this time. [from memory the base is
versaflat, or such]

On 10/01/2014 1:03 PM, RobertMacy wrote:
....

what? Yes, it is EXACTLY like other areas [even larger near-by adjacent]
that do NOT have a problem.

No, it _ISN'T_ exactly alike or the results wouldn't be different.

Can't rip out down to adjacent studs, not that type of structure.

Well, it's held onto something...

--

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:07:08 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:24:29 -0700, nestork
wrote:


...snip....
One thing you can try, and which will probably work, is to paint over
the joint compound in that area with diluted white wood glue.
Basically, you mix what wood glue into water, and use that to paint over
the joint compound in your problem area. The dry joint compound will
suck in the liquid, and the liquid will glue all the gypsum particles
together as the glue dries. There's no hard and fast rule as to how
much glue to mix with how much water. Basically, you want to solution
to be thin enough to be sucked into the joint compound by capillary
pressure. If you have too much glue, the solution will be too viscous
to do that. So, perhaps mix up a fair bit of quite dilute glue, and
apply multiple coats. That way, with each coat you introduce more glue
into the problematic joint compound, gradually making it harder and more
strongly consolidated.

But, never ever paint directly over dried white wood glue because the
moisture in the new paint or primer will re-emulsify the glue causing
the joint compound to loosen up, and you'll have a mess on your hands.
So, after painting the dilute glue on and allowing it to dry overnight,
apply a skim coat of joint compound over that area (and after allowing
that skim coat to dry) THEN paint.

Or, at least that's the way I'd proceed if you don't want to scrape off
the existing joint compound and start over.

That's EXACTLY the answer I was thinking in terms of, except I
forgot/missed about not applying paint over the glue base! I never
thought of another skim coat to 'passify' the glue's surface.

Plus, multiple coats of glue from watery to thicker sound right, too.
Just a light spray of solvent based paint does the job much more
easily. After doing some minor repairs and then wanting to repaint the
wall, I found the patches bubled up as soon as I applied the latex
based primer or top-coat. If I let the first coat dry the bubble would
go back down and almost dissapear, but the next coat raised the
blister again. I grabbed a can of automotive touchup paint I had left
over from the old Corolla and gave the repaired spot a light coat -
after a few minutes it was dry and I put a coat of latex over it
without any sign of a blister - and no problem with the paint sticking
or covering. Spray automotive primer in light grey would do the job
just fine as well.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:28:49 -0700, wrote:

...snip....
Just a light spray of solvent based paint does the job much more
easily. After doing some minor repairs and then wanting to repaint the
wall, I found the patches bubled up as soon as I applied the latex
based primer or top-coat. If I let the first coat dry the bubble would
go back down and almost dissapear, but the next coat raised the
blister again. I grabbed a can of automotive touchup paint I had left
over from the old Corolla and gave the repaired spot a light coat -
after a few minutes it was dry and I put a coat of latex over it
without any sign of a blister - and no problem with the paint sticking
or covering. Spray automotive primer in light grey would do the job
just fine as well.

I think I have a can, too! I like the simplicity of that solution.

Robert:

If the automotive spray primer doesn't work out for you, and you opt to go back to the diluted white wood glue, be sure to use a paint roller to apply the diluted white glue; not a brush. Brushing won't work here because the water will soften up the skim coat of joint compound, and brushing it will just make a mess. And, of course, if you roll, don't keep rolling the same area over and over again. Roll it as best you can to saturate the skim coat with dilute adhesive, and then move on to the next area. If you don't think you've added enough adhesive, don't go back. You can always add more glue with the next rolling. With each application of adhesive, the skim coat will get a bit harder.

And, of course, the dilute wood glue can be washed out of the roller sleeve just like latex paint. If you plan on applying multiple coats, keep the roller sleeve and handle and the paint tray in separate plastic bags to prevent evaporation of water from them.

On 10/1/2014 10:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:12:00 -0700, Mayayana
wrote:

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read
label
| for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime
those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall.
Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster
or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea
questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel
because it wasn't primed first. The main function of
priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent
surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better
coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.



this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and
paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky
primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a
lot of work]


I'd REALLY ask at a REAL paint store. That said, PVA is used as a
primer for a lot of stuff.....when I did crafts with plaster molded
stuff, watered-down Elmer's Glue was used for primer. Worked great.
PVA comes in gallons, which I have used to fasten linen to wood panels
(like the old masters did) for oil painting.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 19:36:18 -0700, nestork
wrote:


Robert:

If the automotive spray primer doesn't work out for you, and you opt to
go back to the diluted white wood glue, be sure to use a paint roller to
apply the diluted white glue; not a brush. Brushing won't work here
because the water will soften up the skim coat of joint compound, and
brushing it will just make a mess. And, of course, if you roll, don't
keep rolling the same area over and over again. Roll it as best you can
to saturate the skim coat with dilute adhesive, and then move on to the
next area. If you don't think you've added enough adhesive, don't go
back. You can always add more glue with the next rolling. With each
application of adhesive, the skim coat will get a bit harder.

And, of course, the dilute wood glue can be washed out of the roller
sleeve just like latex paint. If you plan on applying multiple coats,
keep the roller sleeve and handle and the paint tray in separate plastic
bags to prevent evaporation of water from them.

hmmm, might use one of our spray bottles

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 04:30:59 -0700, Norminn wrote:

...snip...
I'd REALLY ask at a REAL paint store. That said, PVA is used as a
primer for a lot of stuff.....when I did crafts with plaster molded
stuff, watered-down Elmer's Glue was used for primer. Worked great.
PVA comes in gallons, which I have used to fasten linen to wood panels
(like the old masters did) for oil painting.

I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40
years.

glue is starting to sound like the best option, thanks.

[painting like old masters?! any chance we'll see your work someday?]

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:38:01 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

glue is starting to sound like the best option, thanks.

This thread is the first time I have ever heard of using "glue" to
solve a problem with a skim coat.

One poster mentioned shellac. I'd agree with that as it can prevent
wood knots (sap) from bleeding through. Seals it.

Kilz primer has sealed any difficult problems I've had - like trying
to cover red permanent marker on white walls, etc.

I'd do Kilz or shellac before I'd use glue to seal a skim coat. YMMV

| I'd like to ask a REAL paint store, but haven't found one in more than 40
| years.
|

That's not necessarily a solution either. Paint stores
hire clerks, not painters. And those clerks are supposed
to sell product. (If you go to buy wall paint at a Ben
Moore store you'll probably leave with a gallon of Aura,
which is their watery new line of overpriced "designer"
paints. Why? Because the Aura line uses a new system
of tinting and also costs a lot more than the standard line
of paint. And those stores had to buy the hardware for
the new tinting system. So they're trying to sell you the
expensive product. No surprise there. Is Aura good? Not
really. It covers well but settles so flat that a shiny spot
underneath will show through. I might buy it to paint a new
wall that's *perfectly* flat. Otherwise I'd avoid it, even
if it were on sale.)

The same goes for hardware stores and
Home Depot. If the clerks knew that much they'd be
contractors. There are exceptions -- clerks who are
interested in their work and retired contractors who work
as clerks -- but there's no reason to think a clerk knows
what they're talking about.

Many years ago I was in a paint store and saw
EmulsaBond for the first time. It is (or was) an additive
from Flood that combined oil and emulsifier so that
one could make latex paint soak in like oil paint. I like
to use it with very watered down latex paint to seal
dusty, concrete basement floors. At the time I'd never
heard of it and asked the clerk what it was. His response:
"In terms you can understand, it's like glue."

Your situation sounds very mysterious. Maybe the oil
base primer will work. But it seems easier to me to just
stop experimenting, scrape off the top layer, and do
another layer of compound.... My second choice might
be to hang a picture.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 13:10:25 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

Your situation sounds very mysterious. Maybe the oil
base primer will work. But it seems easier to me to just
stop experimenting, scrape off the top layer, and do
another layer of compound.... My second choice might
be to hang a picture.

I second hanging a picture or perhaps a mirror

On 10/1/2014 10:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:12:00 -0700, Mayayana
wrote:

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read
label
| for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime
those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall.
Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster
or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea
questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel
because it wasn't primed first. The main function of
priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent
surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better
coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.



this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and
paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky
primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a
lot of work]


http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_M...l-en-J1475.pdf

Another alternative that crossed my mind would be to just take a hammer and smash a big hole in the wall next to that problem area.

No one will notice the paint peeling in the problem area.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 13:47:25 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 10/1/2014 10:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:12:00 -0700, Mayayana
wrote:

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over ) It must be primed (read
label
| for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime
those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall.
Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster
or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea
questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel
because it wasn't primed first. The main function of
priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent
surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better
coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might
get through whatever is on the compound.



this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only
use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and
paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be
extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but
very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky
primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a
lot of work]


http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_M...l-en-J1475.pdf
The patch needs to be SEALED to keep it from absorbing all the water
from the paint. Anything that seals the surface should work. Best
solution is a shelac or oil based primer. On patches I've found a
light coat of spay enamel or laquer to seal the patch, followed bu a
coat or two of primer applied with a roller to blend the texture makes
the paint cover and hide the repair almost perfectly.

I didn't learn that easily either - we were tearing our hair out
trying to figure out how to heap the patch compound from "blistering"
when I though of the can of old car touch-up paint in the garage.
Problem solved. I still have hair!!!!

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 23:16:23 +0200, nestork
wrote:

Another alternative that crossed my mind would be to just take a hammer
and smash a big hole in the wall next to that problem area.

No one will notice the paint peeling in the problem area.

I like you! Clear, concise and correct! You could be an American

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:21:05 -0400, wrote:

Anything that seals the surface should work. Best
solution is a shelac or oil based primer.

I wish the OP would grasp that concept. I'd do that before trying some
"glue" seal, for a fix over the compound skim coat.

He used a pre-mix compound but didn't reply when I asked he mixed it
again before application on the wall surface.

On 10/2/2014 5:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:21:05 -0400, wrote:

Anything that seals the surface should work. Best
solution is a shelac or oil based primer.

I wish the OP would grasp that concept. I'd do that before trying some
"glue" seal, for a fix over the compound skim coat.

He used a pre-mix compound but didn't reply when I asked he mixed it
again before application on the wall surface.


I think the mistake was to use a tack rag, rather than just vacuum the
dust, and then use a primer-paint rather than a latex based primer as
advised on the label. OP also did not say how long an interval between
the skim and the paint...

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:51:06 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

I think the mistake was to use a tack rag, rather than just vacuum the
dust, and then use a primer-paint rather than a latex based primer as
advised on the label. OP also did not say how long an interval between
the skim and the paint...

I mentioned before the tack cloth (rag) was the wrong approach. OP
never tells us if he mixed the "pre-mix" compound. Pre-mix stuff still
needs some mixing out of the container that sits on a shelf for a
time. Nor does the OP say how long the compound skim coat was allowed
to dry or cure. It matters. All we know is that he has frequent paint
problems and seeks the easy way out. If he moved to Morocco, the
solution would not change

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 14:51:06 -0700, Norminn wrote:

On 10/2/2014 5:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:21:05 -0400, wrote:

Anything that seals the surface should work. Best
solution is a shelac or oil based primer.

I wish the OP would grasp that concept. I'd do that before trying some
"glue" seal, for a fix over the compound skim coat.

He used a pre-mix compound but didn't reply when I asked he mixed it
again before application on the wall surface.


I think the mistake was to use a tack rag, rather than just vacuum the
dust, and then use a primer-paint rather than a latex based primer as
advised on the label. OP also did not say how long an interval between
the skim and the paint...


tac rag was one of the attempts after the 'normal' methods failed, before
simply used dry paper towel somtimes slightly damp paper towel, but after
problems tried the tac rag.

Allow a lot of time, sometimes 24 hours for very thin coat, somtimes 48
hours, sometimes over a week, nothing made much difference.

also, removing skim coat down, and reapplying 'new' layer of skim coat has
not worked, either.

If this keeps up, I'll have to follow nestork's suggestion of adding a big
hole, but place it more judiciously on top the problem.

Robert:

No, using a tack cloth, or even several of them, wouldn't have caused the problem. Tack cloth simply picks up loose dust, and they're used all the time to remove sanding dust after sanding varnish or polyurethane down when refinishing furniture. If the use of a tack cloth isn't detrimental to the adhesion of polyurethane to polyurethane or varnish to varnish, is shouldn't be detrimental to the adhesion of latex paint to joint compound.

I've used diluted glue to consolidate both drywall joint compound and cement based floor leveller on the apartment floors in my building. I mix the compound I use (either Synko Pro Set 90 Lite Sand or Mapei Planipatch) without any glue so that it dries soft and easy to sand smooth. Then I apply diluted white wood glue to the smooth surface, and the result is that as the glue dries it glues all the gypsum or cement particles together, making the surface much harder. You need that in a floor to properly support the floor tiles.

And, I can tell when the joint compound or floor leveler is absorbing dilute wood glue by the colour change. If the compound turns dark when you paint dilute glue onto it with a roller sleeve, that's because the liquid is being absorbed. Once you no longer see a colour change, it means that no more liquid is being absorbed and so there's no point in putting any more on.

Then, if this is joint compound you're working with, put a skim coat of joint compound over the consolidated joint compound, allow time for it to dry, sand smooth and then paint. That SHOULD fix this problem.

No need to bash a hole in the wall.

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 02:42:31 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Robert:

No, using a tack cloth, or even several of them, wouldn't have caused
the problem. Tack cloth simply picks up loose dust, and they're used
all the time to remove sanding dust after sanding varnish or
polyurethane down when refinishing furniture. If the use of a tack
cloth isn't detrimental to the adhesion of polyurethane to polyurethane
or varnish to varnish, is shouldn't be detrimental to the adhesion of
latex paint to joint compound.

I've used diluted glue to consolidate both drywall joint compound and
cement based floor leveller on the apartment floors in my building. I
mix the compound I use (either Synko Pro Set 90 Lite Sand or Mapei
Planipatch) without any glue so that it dries soft and easy to sand
smooth. Then I apply diluted white wood glue to the smooth surface, and
the result is that as the glue dries it glues all the gypsum or cement
particles together, making the surface much harder. You need that in a
floor to properly support the floor tiles.

And, I can tell when the joint compound or floor leveler is absorbing
dilute wood glue by the colour change. If the compound turns dark when
you paint dilute glue onto it with a roller sleeve, that's because the
liquid is being absorbed. Once you no longer see a colour change, it
means that no more liquid is being absorbed and so there's no point in
putting any more on.

Then, if this is joint compound you're working with, put a skim coat of
joint compound over the consolidated joint compound, allow time for it
to dry, sand smooth and then paint. That SHOULD fix this problem.

No need to bash a hole in the wall.
That will work if it is not softeneing the compound and making it
blister. A non-water-based solution is a whole lot more effective (and
faster)

On 10/2/2014 6:58 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:51:06 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

I think the mistake was to use a tack rag, rather than just vacuum the
dust, and then use a primer-paint rather than a latex based primer as
advised on the label. OP also did not say how long an interval between
the skim and the paint...

I mentioned before the tack cloth (rag) was the wrong approach. OP
never tells us if he mixed the "pre-mix" compound. Pre-mix stuff still
needs some mixing out of the container that sits on a shelf for a
time. Nor does the OP say how long the compound skim coat was allowed
to dry or cure. It matters. All we know is that he has frequent paint
problems and seeks the easy way out. If he moved to Morocco, the
solution would not change


The dust is so fine that by using a tack rag he might have put a glaze
on the surface that nothing will stick to. I don't know about
all-in-one primer/paint....I wouldn't use it 'til it's been around for
20 or 30 years. The instructions I found on line were pretty specific
about primers to use.

Only time I've ever had trouble painting over patches was when I patched
and my ex tried to be helpful and slopped on some paint before it cured.