....May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV

On Mon, 26 May 2014 12:48:28 -0700, Oren wrote:

...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV

Maybe they will add searching Usenet. Google managed to screw up it's
Usenet search.

If they manage to do it correctly they might start eating some of
Google's lunch.

Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on
creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my
default search
engine. YMMV

this is also a good one
https://startpage.com/eng/?
i have both as my start pages
Don't be fooled by the "powered by google"
Read further to understand what they do

ChairMan wrote:
Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on
creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my
default search
engine. YMMV

this is also a good one
https://startpage.com/eng/?
i have both as my start pages
Don't be fooled by the "powered by google"
Read further to understand what they do

I've been using startpage for a couple of years now , but just tried out
ddg recently . One difference I see with ddg is that they suggest search
strings for you to refine your search . Some might not like that , some may
..
--
Snag

I've used DuckDuckGo for awhile, too. Google abuse
just keeps getting worse. I dropped them for most
searches when they started tracking clicks via corrupt
links. If you look at the returned links you'll see that
they now use Google as a proxy, so that Google can
track everything you click, even if you have script
disabled:
http://www.google.com/url?q=[the-real-link-here]&[server-side-tracking-code-here]

It sends you to Google, which then serves you the page
you asked for. There's no way to even know whether
Google is giving you an unadulterated page. They could
even be adding tracking bugs to pages.

I still use them occasionally, though. For most searches
any search engine works, but for the really tough ones
Google seems to be more accurate most of the time. When
I do use them I generally copy the link and then clean it
up before proceeding.


"Oren" wrote in message
...
| ...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
| search engine that doesn't track users
|
| https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb
|
| http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb
|
| I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
| engine. YMMV

On Mon, 26 May 2014 12:48:28 -0700, Oren wrote:

...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV

It sure doesn't get the most relevant hits yet.

Try "Taste of Cincinnati"

On 05/26/2014 12:48 PM, Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV


Love the Duck.

On 05/26/2014 03:48 PM, Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV



Maybe you should wear a little tinfoil hat while you surf too?

| I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
| engine. YMMV
|

| Maybe you should wear a little tinfoil hat while you surf too?
|

That's an odd thing to say. Do you *like* being
spied on? Do you think people are nuts who don't
want to be spied on? If so, why? Or do you work for
Google?

On 05/31/2014 09:37 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
| engine. YMMV
|

| Maybe you should wear a little tinfoil hat while you surf too?
|

That's an odd thing to say. Do you *like* being
spied on?

Why would the NSA spy on me? I'm of no interest to them.

Do you think people are nuts who don't
want to be spied on?

Most people who think they are being spied on by the NSA ***are*** nuts.

If so, why? Or do you work for
Google?


No, I'm not employed by Google or the NSA.

And if the government does decide to interrogate me, I hope they send Annie Walker.

http://www.usanetwork.com/covertaffairs

that site was likely putup by the NSA in the hopes it attracts the kinda people who are of interest, like wanabee terrorists..........

On Fri, 30 May 2014 22:59:41 -0700, Todd wrote:

On 05/26/2014 12:48 PM, Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV


Love the Duck.


Todd,

Thoughts on this?

Interview:

https://tinyurl.com/q8m632f

Home page for Ptoton Mail:

https://tinyurl.com/mzeks5n

On Sat, 31 May 2014 08:11:05 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

that site was likely putup by the NSA in the hopes it attracts the kinda people who are of interest, like wanabee terrorists..........

Did you watch the video, Bob?

On 05/31/2014 11:13 AM, Mayayana wrote:
But... the OP wasn't even talking about the NSA.

Fooled me too. Did you read the Subject of this thread?

| But... the OP wasn't even talking about the NSA.
|
| Fooled me too. Did you read the Subject of this thread?

Good point. I think of the NSA as secondary. They
can ride along with corporate tracking, but the corporate
tracking is the primary spying in this case.

I was sitting at a table last week with 3 young
people, talking about the Frontline series on privacy
and spying. They kept talking about the NSA, too.
I kept trying to say, "Yes, the NSA is creepy. But
what about Google and Facebook spying? How do
you feel about those?" They didn't seem to be able
to understand. They fear an Orwellian federal gov't,
but seem oblivious that their whole social and business
life is hosted by advertising companies who claim
co-ownership of their digital data. GMail and Facebook
are so central to their lives that they're almost incapable
of thinking about them as corporations.

On 05/31/2014 09:06 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2014 22:59:41 -0700, Todd wrote:

On 05/26/2014 12:48 PM, Oren wrote:
...May. 22, 2014 - 5:35 - DuckDuckGo's Gabriel Weinberg on creating a
search engine that doesn't track users

https://tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

http://preview.tinyurl.com/p3k5mcb

I tried it and like it just for the cleanliest. Now my default search
engine. YMMV


Love the Duck.


Todd,

Thoughts on this?

Interview:

https://tinyurl.com/q8m632f

Home page for Ptoton Mail:

https://tinyurl.com/mzeks5n


Hi Oren,

I couldn't get the page to load. I use mail.zoho.com.
They swear they are private (encrypted). Unless I
can inspect the facility myself, I don't completely
trust it.

My solution is avoid sending private stuff through the eMail.
You can always encrypted an attachment. (Use the phone
to tell the other end what the key is. Don't eMail the key
to them. This is called "Out of Band" verification.)

-T

On 05/31/2014 10:00 PM, Mayayana wrote:
No, but Google is providing the data in some cases
and setting the precedent. People allow Google to
essentially wiretap their email, which sets a precedent
that can be applied in court. And actually I really don't
see why one should make such a comparison at all.
They're both a big problem. I wouldn't find it comforting
to know that the person who just stole my wallet at least
doesn't steal cars. I'm guessing that Leo LaPorte has a
gmail account that he'd rather not give up.

The Google user agreement clearly spells it all out in their Terms of Service.

If people don't like the TOS, they can always *buy* email service from an ISP or web host.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 23:07:46 -0400, Googlehead
wrote:

The Google user agreement clearly spells it all out in their Terms of Service.

If people don't like the TOS, they can always *buy* email service from an ISP or web host.

Try to follow the talk. Google reads the mail that passes
through their servers. Opening an account with a third party will not
alter that.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

| Check out mail.zoho.com. You get five free (may be
| 10 by now).
|

Do they seem respectable? I was checking free email
recently for a brother who's giving up his ISP and zoho
was one that I came across, but I didn't know what to
think of it. It's hard to see any free service really being
a good idea. It starts out with both sides unwilling to be
honest about what they're actually doing.

Unfortunately, my brother is one of the large majority
who's simply too lazy to deal with it. He doesn't want to
pay $2/month for a legitimate service. He doesn't want
to pay a bit more for his own domain. He doesn't even
want to be bothered researching free options. In the end
he went with gmail because his ISP was actually using
gmail, so there was no need to change the OE account
settings.

I think most people are like that. It's a case of "You can
lead a horse to water, but if the horse expects to be
spoonfed then you just have to let him thirst."

| The Google user agreement clearly spells it all out in their Terms of
Service.
|

Indeed. They have no shame. Google boss Eric Schmidt
famously said that if people think they need privacy then
they're probably doing something they shouldn't be. The
political naivety in that statement is stunning. (The Jews
under Hitler come to mind. Vietnam War protesters. Enemies
of J. Edgar Hoover. People involved with the Occupy
movement. Gays. ...Anyone in a position where they must
stand up for their own rights, or who risks losing those rights.
Even a Catholic in a Protestant neighborhood might prefer to
be discreet.)
Perhaps Mr. Schmidt actually lives in a glass house, with no
door on his bathroom. And maybe we're all welcome to go
watch. Maybe I'll look up the URL of his EricCam.


| If people don't like the TOS, they can always *buy* email service from an
ISP or web host.

Yes, a lot of people have free email with their ISP and
don't even know it. And it doesn't cost much to have a domain.

But that's also become tricky. First, it doesn't solve the
problem for those of us who need to communicate with
gmail users. Beyond that, many ISPs have subcontracted
to Google, as have many colleges. Some web hosts have
also subcontracted to Google, and some don't offer full
service email. It's not always easy to figure that out ahead
of time. It's often only discoverable by looking at the email
headers, which most people don't know about. It's not clear
whether Google can/does spy on people under a subcontract
deal. I certainly wouldn't trust them.

I had a website with Earthlink for many years. At first they
were good. The service gradually went downhill. I have no idea
what transpired at the company, but I eventually decided to
find a new host. I don't remember the name of the company
that Earthlink subbed out to, but they did it without any
notice to customers. I found out because my email wouldn't go
through to a friend with Verizon email. The company EL was
using was blacklisted!
I know a number of people with ISP or webhosting email that's
been subbed out. Those companies may just find it cheaper than
running their own service, but I wouldn't be surprised if the
subcontractors are selling the personal data and then giving the
ISPs and webhosts a kickback. It's hard to be honest in a
business where people don't want to pay a fair price for anything.
.... That's the tragedy of Google. They made billions running
an hoest business for years. It was a brilliant idea. They had a
great search engine and sold text ads along the side of the page.
It was a perfect business model. It was clean and honest. But then
they got greedy.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 18:32:31 -0700, Todd wrote:


I couldn't get the page to load.

Direct link: https://protonmail.ch/

On Sat, 31 May 2014 21:45:55 -0700, Todd wrote:

I despise being spied on, even by marketers.

Walk down the Strip in Las Vegas, estimates your photo is taken 80
times per second. "Eye in the Sky"

On Sat, 31 May 2014 21:42:18 -0700, Todd wrote:

My solution is avoid sending private stuff through the eMail.
You can always encrypted an attachment. (Use the phone
to tell the other end what the key is. Don't eMail the key
to them. This is called "Out of Band" verification.)

-T



You know what. Even if you are using a secure connection
to anywhere, the bad guys can still scrub your memory and
log your key strokes.


You mean by forensics or reading a cache?

You can always use a Linux Live CD, which can not be written
to, to make sure there is no funny business on your machine.

Per Todd:
Also, keystroke loggers, just logs everything you
type on your keyboard, as everything you type is in the
clear. Exploits that go after your banking information
love this method.

-T

p.s. my advice to the public as a PCI tester, USE CASH!
Use your card(s) as little as possible.

Call me paranoid, but I wouldn't even *think* of doing my banking
online.

I don't even like the idea that institutions like the mutual fund where
I keep my retirement account make it unconditionally available because
it would seem to place the burden on me to prove that I was not behind
some prankster's trading activity.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Todd:
I don't do it. I don't recommend it. No one
listens to me.

Same here, but we've exercised our due diligence....-)
--
Pete Cresswell