So, in case you didn't know, groups of aboriginal women across Canada are holding protests and gatherings to draw attention to the situation here in Canada. That is, that a disproportionate number of women that are missing or known to have suffered a violent death are aboriginal (aka: "native").

Apparantly, only 4.3 percent of the women in Canada are aboriginal, but over 16 percent of the women that are missing or known to have been killed and suffering a violent death are aboriginal. The aboriginal women are claiming that the police forces in Canada (like the RCMP, the Ontario Provincial Police and local city police forces) aren't doing enough to solve the cases of missing or killed aboriginal women.

Let me see if I can shed some light on it...

There are few industries on the native reserves, so aboriginal women wanting to make a life for themselves migrate to the cities from those reserves. On the reserve, the teacher(s) teach up to Grade 12, but the reality of the situation is that aboriginal students graduating from Grade 12 on a reserve are functionally illiterate. A big part of the reason for that is that unlike other communities, on a native reserve the chief and tribal council have the final say in all matters. So, if little Jimmy Yellowquill can't understand how to solve quadratic equations, and is likely to flunk Grade 7 math, his parents go and talk to the Chief, and the Chief talks to the teacher, and the teacher realizes that littly Jimmy Yellowquill is never going to have to solve a quadratic equation working at any of the few businesses there are on that reserve. So, little Jimmy Yellowquill gets pushed through each grade because the band council and the teachers realize that there are no jobs that little Jimmy Yellowquill would ever apply for that would require he know anything more than grade 4 arithmetic to do. So, the guys and girls graduating from the schools on reservations really don't have any work related skills to speak of and are completely unprepared for University (unless of course, they take a program called "Native Studies" where there is no such thing as "pass" and "fail"; only various levels of "pass". If the girls moving to the cities can't make ends meet working for minimum wage at the golden arches, they put on a sexy outfit and loiter in front of the hotels on Winnipeg's main drag. They get into cars with men they don't know from Adam, and that stranger drives them out somewhere where they don't even know where they are, let alone anyone else. The girl does this stranger a favour, which usually involves sex, and then she demands a substantial amount of money from him.

I dunno. Beats me. Why would that lifestyle result in a disproportionate number of aboriginal women being killed?

nestork wrote in news:nestork.dbc51e9
@diybanter.com:


aboriginal (aka: "native")


AKA Indians.


--
Tegger

Correct. But, Aboriginals don't like to be called "Indians". Most of them have never even been to India and can't speak the language. They much prefer to be called "Aboriginal", "Native" or "First Nations".

Truth be told, "Indians" are some of the friendliest and honest people you'll meet. It's just that the ones that move to the cities often get involved with drug and alcohol abuse, and that leads to broken homes and wife beating and sexual abuse and all the wonderful things that alcoholism leads to. And it's that kind of "Indian" that people are prejudice against. And, of course, there's a backlash against alcoholism amongst the Indians themselves. I know native women that won't visit their families because the first thing they do when they all get together is drink, and the women just can't deal with the drama that often ensues. So, you have people within the native community that don't drink and don't want to have anything to do with people that do. It's a problem they all deal with, each in their own way.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 05:10:08 +0200, nestork
wrote:


'Tegger[_4_ Wrote:
;3236575']nestork wrote in
news:nestork.dbc51e9
@diybanter.com:

-
aboriginal (aka: "native")-


AKA Indians.


--
Tegger

Correct. But, Aboriginals don't like to be called "Indians". Most of
them have never even been to India and can't speak the language. They
much prefer to be called "Aboriginal", "Native" or "First Nations".

Truth be told, "Indians" are some of the friendliest and honest people
you'll meet. It's just that the ones that move to the cities often get
involved with drug and alcohol abuse, and that leads to broken homes and
wife beating and sexual abuse and all the wonderful things that
alcoholism leads to.

That's exactly the same problem we have here except it isn't with
Aboriginals, it's with a different race.

And it's that kind of "Indian" that people are prejudice against.

I think a better characterization instead of "prejudice" would be "not
willing to tolerate." Those are the people that give the rest of a
race a bad name.

And, of course, there's a backlash against
alcoholism amongst the Indians themselves. I know native women that
won't visit their families because the first thing they do when they all
get together is drink, and the women just can't deal with the drama that
often ensues. So, you have people within the native community that
don't drink and don't want to have anything to do with people that do.
It's a problem they all deal with, each in their own way.

Unfortunately, the rest of society has to deal with and pay for the
problems they cause.

"nestork" wrote in message

I dunno. Beats me. Why would that lifestyle result in a
disproportionate number of aboriginal women being killed?

There's a very simple answer: Because they are poor.

The poor and the unemployed are twice as likely to become victims of
violent crime and nearly three times more likely to suffer emotional damage
as a result of being attacked, according to research published today.
The study by the Institute of Public Policy Research shows that people
living in the most deprived neighbourhoods are more than twice as likely to
be mugged and feel "very worried" about being physically attacked as those
who live in the most affluent neighbourhoods.

The research, Crimesha the unequal impact of crime, shows that almost
half a million victims of violent crime started to avoid certain places,
used public transport less, and felt unable to take on paid or volunteer
work if it involved coming home after dark. About 32,000 people change jobs
every year and 180,000 move home as a direct result of being attacked. More
than 850,000 people say they lost earnings as a result of becoming a victim
of violent crime. Source:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...xclusion.crime

--
Bobby G.

"nestork" wrote in message ...

'Tegger[_4_ Wrote:
;3236575']nestork wrote in
news:nestork.dbc51e9
@diybanter.com:

-
aboriginal (aka: "native")-


AKA Indians.


--
Tegger

Correct. But, Aboriginals don't like to be called "Indians". Most of
them have never even been to India and can't speak the language. They
much prefer to be called "Aboriginal", "Native" or "First Nations".

Truth be told, "Indians" are some of the friendliest and honest people
you'll meet. It's just that the ones that move to the cities often get
involved with drug and alcohol abuse, and that leads to broken homes and
wife beating and sexual abuse and all the wonderful things that
alcoholism leads to. And it's that kind of "Indian" that people are
prejudice against. And, of course, there's a backlash against
alcoholism amongst the Indians themselves. I know native women that
won't visit their families because the first thing they do when they all
get together is drink, and the women just can't deal with the drama that
often ensues. So, you have people within the native community that
don't drink and don't want to have anything to do with people that do.
It's a problem they all deal with, each in their own way.

Same is true in most struggling neighborhoods. I remember when the "riots" broke out here in LA in the 90's - the first places to burn were the liquor stores. The news media tried to make it look like it was an Afr-Am vs Korean conflict, but the truth is that those who lived near the liquor stores wanted liquor stores out of their communities.

Some exceptions, of course, but this was pretty much universal at that time.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 00:41:43 +0200, nestork
wrote in


the
reality of the situation is that aboriginal students graduating from
Grade 12 on a reserve are functionally illiterate

The same is true for a large percentage of grade-12 graduates from the
U.S. public school systems. Most U.S. public school systems are
controlled by teacher unions and run primarily for the financial
benefit of 1) teacher administrators, 2) teachers. The students are a
very distant 3rd.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 5/16/2014 11:10 PM, nestork wrote:
I know native women that
won't visit their families because the
first thing they do when they all
get together is drink, and the women
just can't deal with the drama that
often ensues.


Lots of alcohol, dressed like hookers, and get in
the car with strangers. And end up dead. I wonder
if anyone else sees a connection?

It sounds like a very high risk way to behave. I'd
suggest they find a different way to balance the
budget. My guess is that if these people cut back
on vice items, eating out, and cable TV, they might
balance the budget.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Saturday, May 17, 2014 3:19:24 AM UTC-4, CRNG wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 00:41:43 +0200, nestork

wrote in





the

reality of the situation is that aboriginal students graduating from

Grade 12 on a reserve are functionally illiterate



The same is true for a large percentage of grade-12 graduates from the

U.S. public school systems. Most U.S. public school systems are

controlled by teacher unions and run primarily for the financial

benefit of 1) teacher administrators, 2) teachers. The students are a

very distant 3rd.

--


That's what I was thinking when I was reading it too.
It doesn't take a tribal chief here to have kids come out
of school without being able to do basic reading, writing
and arithmetic.

As to the allegation that the police aren't doing enough
to find there missing people or solve homicide cases, that could
be true. But there are other factors that can come into play.
For example here in the USA, it's often much harder for
police to solve murders in black neighborhoods because
few people will talk to and cooperate with the police.
By the street code, you're a rat if you do that, plus
with gangs, etc, someone may kill you. If the victims
have a transient lifestyle, etc, that can make it much
harder to solve than a more typical case. So, while on the
surface, because some of these go unsolved, etc, people
may assume that the police aren't doing anything, you'd
have to look at the particular cases and do some comparison
to reach valid conclusions.

Hmmm...I don't see any prejudice here...move-in, run true-Americans out and bitch about them being stupid because they don't choose to main-stream their education!

"Tegger" wrote in message
...

nestork wrote in news:nestork.dbc51e9
@diybanter.com:

aboriginal (aka: "native")

AKA Indians.

The news item concerned Canada where the constitution (since
1982) guarantees "aboriginal rights" to Indians, Innu (Eskimos) and
Metis (although it offers no rules or guidelines to decide who is
eligible for aboriginal rights.) Thus "aboriginal" has a legal
function in Canada that it does not in the USA, Britain, etc.
(E.g. aboriginals convicted of crimes may petition for lighter
sentences than other people, because of historical unfairness
to their ancestors.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"trader_4" wrote in message
...

As to the allegation that the police aren't doing enough
to find there missing people or solve homicide cases, that could
be true.

--Not for the Canadian case, where RCMP figures published May 16
report solution of 88 per cent of murders of aboriginal people and
89 per cent of murders of nonaboriginal people (or 89 and 88
per cent, I forget which.) The murder rate in Canada is about
17 per million people per year (554 homicides in 2010, the
record low figure.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Canada has a lot of problems with our native population in a variety of ways.

In Canada, over 80 percent of the men in prisons are native. And, this fact alone has been held up as proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the Canadian judicial system is prejudice against natives. But, the correct explanation here is that natives are often just plain dumb, and make just plain dumb mistakes in the commission of their crimes, thereby making it easy for the police to find and convict the perpetrators.

For example, every fall or early winter you hear a news report on Winnipeg radio that a native man has been convicted of armed robbery because he used a knife to hold up a liquor commission. Then they explain that the Winnipeg police service was able to find the perpetrator by tracking the foot prints in the freshly fallen snow back to the perpetrator's place of residence. And, when police ask the man if he had just robbed a liquor store with a knife, the perpetrator answered in the affirmative.

Often native men will commit crimes when they're drunk. A native man might buy a case of 24 beer at a local hotel beer vendor and bring it home to drink. Well, after him and his friends each have a half dozen beer in them, they want to keep drinking but they don't have any money. So, they decide to lay in wait outside the local beer vendor and attack the next person that comes out with beer. Well, this native has been buying beer at that vendor for years, and the person working cash at that vendor might not know his name, but knows that he often comes to that hotel vendor to buy beer. The guy who gets beat up for his beer wants to press charges and the police give the guy working cash at the hotel vendor a case number and phone number to call the next time he sees that native. The next time that native comes in, the guy working cash makes a phone call and the police are there in a few minutes to arrest the native. A thinking person would not commit a crime at a place where he frequents because people can easily recognize him.

Ya see, dumb people make dumb mistakes and that makes it easier for the police to solve dumb crimes. That's why there are so many natives in Canadian jails.

In ,
nestork belched:
Canada has a lot of problems

that is just not possible!!!
Home Boi tells us regularly that Canada has NO problems, especially racial
profiling.
Are you absolutely sure this is true? : )

nestork wrote in news:nestork.dbc8a28
@diybanter.com:


'Tegger[_4_ Wrote:
;3236575']nestork wrote in
news:nestork.dbc51e9
@diybanter.com:

-
aboriginal (aka: "native")-


AKA Indians.



Correct. But, Aboriginals don't like to be called "Indians".



How do you know? I've known a number of them and they called themselves
Indians.

Some dislike the term, others don't care either way, and still others use
it themselves.


--
Tegger

"Don Phillipson" wrote in news:ll865q$btd$2
@news.albasani.net:


(E.g. aboriginals convicted of crimes may petition for lighter
sentences than other people, because of historical unfairness
to their ancestors.



Yep. That's how RCMP cop Monty Robinson got off with no jail time after
killing motorcyclist Orion Hutchinson with his car under /highly-
suspicious/ circumstances involving large amounts of alcohol (drunken
Indian, anyone?). No white would ever have got away with what he did.
Robinson was also one of the cops involved in killing Robert Dziekanski in
the Toronto airport, also under highly-suspicious circumstances. He got off
that one, too.


--
Tegger

ChairMan wrote:

Canada has a lot of problems

that is just not possible!!!

You're right. We have nowhere near as many problems as you (the USA)
does. Not even 10% of the problems.

You are so screwed over health care and latin-american migrants and how
your politicians are getting ulcers trying to figure out what to do with
them, meanwhile they rape and rob their way through your society (the
latinos - but I suppose the same could be said of your politicians too).

Home Boi tells us regularly that Canada has NO problems, especially
racial profiling.
Are you absolutely sure this is true? : )

These indians are not Canadians, so like other native indians in North
America, they live off their casinos money logging and mineral rights
and gov't handouts and their band leaders squander and pilfer the money
leaving the rest of their tribe destitute and it's politically incorrect
for us the white people to even point that out let alone do something
about it except throw more of our tax money at them.

This issue with the missing squaws - what you don't hear is that
nobody's asking why the indian men are allowing their women to go
missing and get killed - unless it's them doing most of it.

On Fri, 16 May 2014 20:10:08 -0700, nestork
wrote:

..snip...
Correct. But, Aboriginals don't like to be called "Indians". Most of
them have never even been to India and can't speak the language. They
much prefer to be called "Aboriginal", "Native" or "First Nations".

...snip...

wow, the word, aboriginal, brings to mind the images of a "Walkabout"

Hey, they just got here soomer, came from someplace, just earlier, right?

I've never heard the term, but really like the name, First Nations. High
ranking, has dignity. Yeah, that's a good name. Does that mean my name is,
invader, intruder, thief, what?

Robert: "Aboriginal" simply means the people who are native to a certain land. The "Aboriginees" of Australia are native to Australia just as the First Nations peoples are aboriginal to Canada and the USA.

No, there's a lot of controversy over where the earliest people to come to North America actually came from. The most commonly accepted belief is that people crossed from North East Russia and China across a land bridge that connected north eastern Asia and Alaska during the last ice age. But, there is evidence to suggest that North America was originally settled by people that came from what is now Spain and Portugal who crossed the Atlantic by following the edge of an ice sheet that spanned the entire Atlantic Ocean during the last ice age. It's very likely that North America was populated by different people who came from different places on the Earth, but who didn't make contact with each other for centuries after coming here. The reasoning behind that is that the people that settled in South America seem to have a form of writing which is seen carved all over their holy sites, whereas the plains Indians and Arctic peoples (starting with the Arctic culture known as the "Dorset culture", had no form of writing at all. Writing is something that a culture never loses because important events in the culture's history need to be recorded for posterity. For one group of natives to have writing and another group not to have it suggests they came to North America from different places and at different times.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf06j8w62cx0wh@ajm...

stuff snipped

wow, the word, aboriginal, brings to mind the images of a "Walkabout"

Ever seen the film of the same name? Intriguing and the beginning, for me,
of a long term "admiration" for Jenny Agutter. Her getting buck naked
frequently in films has *nothing* to do with my appreciation of her, I
assure my wife. Nothing at all. The first time I saw her in all her
"Garden of Eden" splendor was in the SciFi flick "Logan's Run." Now that
was some gratutitous film nudity. I know I was grateful!

Hey, they just got here soomer, came from someplace, just earlier, right?

Everybody comes from somewhere. (-: It's where you end up that's important.

I've never heard the term, but really like the name, First Nations. High
ranking, has dignity. Yeah, that's a good name. Does that mean my name is,
invader, intruder, thief, what?

"Better Armed" would probably be the most descriptive.

I always wonder what the Caananites thought when they were told that God
promised *their* land of milk and honey to the Jews.

"But this is *our* land!" the Caananites said.

"Here, look at this Torah scroll, it says it right here, "This land is our
land, promised by Jehovah!"

"I don't see it . . ."

"Look more closely. Down there. At the very bottom." Bonk! "Unload the
caravan, we're home!"

And thus it has been ever since. Just look at all the territorial conflicts
going on in the South China Sea. Or the Ukraine and Crimea. Or the
Falkland Islands, etc. Or Africa. Or Tibet. The one enduring rule seems
to be the land belongs to whomever can grab it and hold it.

--
Bobby G.

"nestork" wrote in message
stuff snipped

In Canada, over 80 percent of the men in prisons are native.

That sounds quite unbelievable and a cursory search shows that it's a highly
unlikely assertion fpr the entire country:

http://www.prisonjustice.ca/politics/facts_stats.html

Aboriginal Adults (2005-2006)
a.. 4% of the total canadian adult population - (2006 Census)
b.. 24% of admissions to provincial/territorial sentenced custody
c.. 18% of admissions to federal prisons
d.. 19% of admissions to remand
e.. 21% of male prisoner population
f.. 30% of female prisoner population
Maybe you have a different source of information or you're talking about
particular provinces and not all of Canadian prisoners . . .

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 18 May 2014 04:36:13 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote in
The one enduring rule seems
to be the land belongs to whomever can grab it and hold it.

Exactly. That has been true for about 2 million years and I don't
expect it to change; not even in the American southwest where over 50%
of the population in many areas are illegal Mexicans.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

"CRNG" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 May 2014 04:36:13 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote in
The one enduring rule seems
to be the land belongs to whomever can grab it and hold it.

Exactly. That has been true for about 2 million years and I don't
expect it to change; not even in the American southwest where over 50%
of the population in many areas are illegal Mexicans.

But they usually don't live on land that anybody else would want to live on.
One thing that always impressed me when I used to fly coast-to-coast in a
window seat was how much land there was past Colorado and how much of it was
a whole lot of browish-grey nothingness. Now my prostate makes me request
aisle seats. )-:

All my friends are gone,
and my hair is gray
And I ache in the places
Where I used to play . . .

Leonard Cohen "Tower of Song"

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 20:16:07 -0700, nestork
wrote:


No, there's a lot of controversy over where the earliest people to come
to North America actually came from. The most commonly accepted belief
is that people crossed from North East Russia and China across a land
bridge that connected north eastern Asia and Alaska during the last ice
age. But, there is evidence to suggest that North America was
originally settled by people that came from what is now Spain and
Portugal who crossed the Atlantic by following the edge of an ice sheet
that spanned the entire Atlantic Ocean during the last ice age. It's
very likely that North America was populated by different people who
came from different places on the Earth, but who didn't make contact
with each other for centuries after coming here. The reasoning behind
that is that the people that settled in South America seem to have a
form of writing which is seen carved all over their holy sites, whereas
the plains Indians and Arctic peoples (starting with the Arctic culture
known as the "Dorset culture", had no form of writing at all. Writing
is something that a culture never loses because important events in the
culture's history need to be recorded for posterity. For one group of
natives to have writing and another group not to have it suggests they
came to North America from different places and at different times.

I knew the meaning of aboriginal. But still that's 'my' mindset.

Great logic, explains a lot regarding ten commandments being written out
in AZ.

On Sun, 18 May 2014 06:12:20 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

..snip....
Leonard Cohen "Tower of Song"

Leonard Cohen?! now THAT's an acquired taste! Haven't heard much from him
lately, though. Somewhere around here I have one of his CD's, like the
'french' song, can't remember the title.

On Sun, 18 May 2014 01:36:13 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

...snip....
Ever seen the film of the same name? Intriguing and the beginning, for
me,

yes, 25 years after seeing the film once, still remember visualizations,
like her staring at that brick wall. now have a copy.

of a long term "admiration" for Jenny Agutter. Her getting buck naked
frequently in films has *nothing* to do with my appreciation of her, I
assure my wife. Nothing at all. The first time I saw her in all her
"Garden of Eden" splendor was in the SciFi flick "Logan's Run." Now that
was some gratutitous film nudity. I know I was grateful!


Wasn't the first film "Walkabout"? In "logan's Run" she was naked in the
ice cave sequence, and then next scene wearing 'old lady' white panties
where she slipped and fell really hard onto that ice. Even Michael York
broke character out of concern for her fall. CONTINUITY!

I always wonder what the Caananites thought when they were told that God
promised *their* land of milk and honey to the Jews.


Don't forget Hittites, too. I don't think they were all told, just the
Israelites were in on it. Imagine how history would have been different if
the Israelites had just followed instructions.


Your scenario reads like a satire...

"But this is *our* land!" the Caananites said.
...snip....

especially enjoyed the 'look closely, BONK!' part.

And thus it has been ever since. Just look at all the territorial
conflicts
going on in the South China Sea. Or the Ukraine and Crimea. Or the
Falkland Islands, etc. Or Africa. Or Tibet. The one enduring rule
seems
to be the land belongs to whomever can grab it and hold it.

Don't think the comparison holds there. As indicated by requiring the
winner to be the stronger. Food for thought.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf15r6ba2cx0wh@ajm...
wrote:

..snip....
Leonard Cohen "Tower of Song"

Leonard Cohen?! now THAT's an acquired taste! Haven't heard much from him
lately, though. Somewhere around here I have one of his CD's, like the
'french' song, can't remember the title.

Yeah, I only have the one album. He was just in the news about a concert in
Israel and IIRC, his manager stealing him - er, allegedly stealing him
blind. But that might have happened decades ago. Like Kurt, ye olde
memory is not what is used to be. (-:

--
Bobby G.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf16gepm2cx0wh@ajm...
On Sun, 18 May 2014 01:36:13 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

...snip....
Ever seen the film of the same name? Intriguing and the beginning, for
me,

yes, 25 years after seeing the film once, still remember visualizations,
like her staring at that brick wall. now have a copy.

Yes, I bought a copy, too. Amazon has great deals on hardly used DVD's and
I've been buying up a lot of films that can stand multiple viewings. Got a
hardly used boxed set of Ken Burn's "The Civil War" series for twenty
dollars.

of a long term "admiration" for Jenny Agutter. Her getting buck naked
frequently in films has *nothing* to do with my appreciation of her, I
assure my wife. Nothing at all. The first time I saw her in all her
"Garden of Eden" splendor was in the SciFi flick "Logan's Run." Now
that
was some gratutitous film nudity. I know I was grateful!


Wasn't the first film "Walkabout"?

Might have been. I was just commented on the sequence I saw them in and I
saw "Walkabout" after hearing my Aussie friend rave about it on line.

In "logan's Run" she was naked in the
ice cave sequence, and then next scene wearing 'old lady' white panties
where she slipped and fell really hard onto that ice. Even Michael York
broke character out of concern for her fall. CONTINUITY!

I own that DVD to, and though it had some remarkable special effects for the
time (holographic imagery) it also had some very cheesy FX. I think I'll
pull it out of the cabinet for another look-see.

I always wonder what the Caananites thought when they were told that God
promised *their* land of milk and honey to the Jews.


Don't forget Hittites, too. I don't think they were all told, just the
Israelites were in on it. Imagine how history would have been different if
the Israelites had just followed instructions.

(-: There are so many points in history that could have gone either way.
What if Rome never burned? What if Lee Harvey Oswald missed? Or Booth? A
lot of history depends on some pretty singular events.

Your scenario reads like a satire...

"But this is *our* land!" the Caananites said.
...snip....

especially enjoyed the 'look closely, BONK!' part.

(-:

And thus it has been ever since. Just look at all the territorial
conflicts
going on in the South China Sea. Or the Ukraine and Crimea. Or the
Falkland Islands, etc. Or Africa. Or Tibet. The one enduring rule
seems
to be the land belongs to whomever can grab it and hold it.

Don't think the comparison holds there. As indicated by requiring the
winner to be the stronger. Food for thought.

If you can't hold it, then you're not the stronger and you lose it. That's
why many cities in the Old World are built on the ashes of four or five or
even ten cities before them. I often wonder what it felt like to be living
in a previously impregnable fortress city when you saw the world's first
trebuchets or catapults roll up. Or watching, the way the residents of the
mountaintop fortress of Masada did, the Romans slowly and patiently build a
huge ramp to bypass the sheer cliffs of the fortress. Truly memorable "Oh
Shi+" moments in history.

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 19 May 2014 04:48:20 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf16gepm2cx0wh@ajm...
...snip...
Wasn't the first film "Walkabout"?

Might have been. I was just commented on the sequence I saw them in and
I
saw "Walkabout" after hearing my Aussie friend rave about it on line.


Walkabout was one of Roger Ebert's top films of history. Jenny Agutter
starred in another film, "The Railway Children" that is a memorable family
film. It has memorable lines, for example Jenny Agutter's character is
describing her younger sister as, "she means well" or the youngest, her
brother, as well, ... you get the drift.

It is a story where evil rips a family apart, removing the father to
prison on Christmas Eve, and the remaining family is forced into penury,
move to Yorkshire [enjoyed the satire on Yorkshire], where the basic
fortitude and 'goodness' of their characters triumphs bringing rewards to
themselves and side characters. With, of course, all ending well at the
end.

[PS, the woman who played the mother went on to play a fleeting character
in a recent British comedy series, but she is difficult to recognize, age
takes its toll]

It is the ONLY film I ever paid full price for, could not find a discount
anywhere. paid in today's dollars around $200.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf31jhjy2cx0wh@ajm...
On Mon, 19 May 2014 04:48:20 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

stuff snipped

Walkabout was one of Roger Ebert's top films of history.

I didn't know that. Our taste in films often did not coincide.

Jenny Agutter
starred in another film, "The Railway Children" that is a memorable family
film. It has memorable lines, for example Jenny Agutter's character is
describing her younger sister as, "she means well" or the youngest, her
brother, as well, ... you get the drift.

She's been in a lot of films - "An American Werewolf in London" comes to
mind.

It is a story where evil rips a family apart, removing the father to
prison on Christmas Eve, and the remaining family is forced into penury,
move to Yorkshire [enjoyed the satire on Yorkshire], where the basic
fortitude and 'goodness' of their characters triumphs bringing rewards to
themselves and side characters. With, of course, all ending well at the
end.

You say "of course" as if they all end that way. I can think of any number
of films that started out describing desolate lives that ended very badly.
Dr. Zhivago comes to mind. At the end he sees the love of his life, you
think he's going to reunite with her and then he dies of a heart attack.
The remake of "True Grit" ended on pretty sour note and though truer to the
book than the John Wayne version. But I liked the JW version better - one
of his best films, IMHO.

Returning to the subject of nudity, I also seem to recall Jenny buck naked
in "Equus."

[PS, the woman who played the mother went on to play a fleeting character
in a recent British comedy series, but she is difficult to recognize, age
takes its toll]

Last night I watched a Midsommer's Night Dream from 1968 with Judy Densch
and Helen Mirren. Almost impossible to recognize Dame Densch in her youth
although Mirren was quite recognizable. Mirren first came to my notice in
Boorman's "Excalibur" - another of my favorite films with performances from
a mostly yet unknown Liam Neeson and Patrick Stewart (aka Jean Luc Picard).
I had a friend who hated that film but loved "First Knight" with Richard
Gere which I thought was a pretty dismal recounting of the Arthurian
legends. There's no accounting for taste, I guess.

It is the ONLY film I ever paid full price for, could not find a discount
anywhere. paid in today's dollars around $200.

My, my. I've paid a lot of out-of-print video cassettes but never that
much. I went to order a DVD from Amazon of "They May Be Giants" for $40 and
it turned out to be an "on demand" DVD, aka a DVD-R that the vendor had
struck from a master copy. To this day I wonder if it's legit. They say
they had permission from the copyright holder but who knows? Great flick
with George C. Scott and Paul Newman's wife whose name has apparently fallen
into one of the swiss cheese holes in my brain. Another (neuron) bites the
dust. )-: Joanne Woodward! The neuron wasn't dead, it was just sleeping.

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 19 May 2014 13:58:46 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf31jhjy2cx0wh@ajm...
...snip...
themselves and side characters. With, of course, all ending well at the
end.

You say "of course" as if they all end that way. I can think of any
number
of films that started out describing desolate lives that ended very
badly.
Dr. Zhivago comes to mind. At the end he sees the love of his life, you
think he's going to reunite with her and then he dies of a heart attack.
The remake of "True Grit" ended on pretty sour note and though truer to
the
book than the John Wayne version. But I liked the JW version better -
one
of his best films, IMHO.


It's a 'family film' not like Bambi, some horrible animal snuff film that
you have to put into the freezer. [credit to Phoebe, Friends]

..snip...
Last night I watched a Midsommer's Night Dream from 1968 with Judy Densch
and Helen Mirren. Almost impossible to recognize Dame Densch in her
youth
although Mirren was quite recognizable. Mirren first came to my notice
in
Boorman's "Excalibur" - another of my favorite films with performances
from

I first saw/noticed Mirren in PBS production of "Prime Suspect"

She's still fun in "Reds".

a mostly yet unknown Liam Neeson and Patrick Stewart (aka Jean Luc
Picard).

Patrick Stewart is incredible in "Safe House", especially the ending line.

..snip...
dust. )-: Joanne Woodward! The neuron wasn't dead, it was just
sleeping.

--
Bobby G.

Yes, excellent story line, but seemed VERY stiff. like a play taken to
screen, just 'self conscious'

I can't get over how physically small these people are, until you meet
them and find they're quite diminutive. Jane Fonda, who always appears as
the largest woman in a film usually equal in stature to her male co-stars,
top of her head comes up to my chin. Her largest finger is smaller than my
little finger! She is perfectly proportioned, just miniature. But Cary
Grant was taller than me! Big dude. When we met him, he hugged my wife
[for far too long], so afterwards her eyes were glazed and forhours she
kept murmuring, "Cary Grant hugged me." PS: my wife used to look a bit
like Catherine Deneuve, and was often mistaken for her while we would
travel Europe.

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xf5xy5om2cx0wh@ajm...
On Mon, 19 May 2014 13:58:46 -0700, Robert Green

stuff snipped

It's a 'family film' not like Bambi, some horrible animal snuff film that
you have to put into the freezer. [credit to Phoebe, Friends]

I agree. Something was *very* wrong with Walt Disney. My wife and I were
watching Toy Story III and when the toys found their way to the orphanage
with over an hour left to go, I turned to her and said "I smell a Bambi!"
Let's turn it off now. And we did. Only later, on the Big Bang Theory did
I find out it was the right move after Penny called Leonard out for crying
at Toy Story III: "The toys were holding hands in a furnace!" No wonder our
kids are warped. For a guy who grew up in the post-concentration camp world
of the 50's, burning in a furnace is not what I consider top notch
entertainment, even if it's only dolls.

..snip...
Last night I watched a Midsommer's Night Dream from 1968 with Judy
Densch
and Helen Mirren. Almost impossible to recognize Dame Densch in her
youth although Mirren was quite recognizable. Mirren first came to my
notice
in Boorman's "Excalibur" - another of my favorite films with
performances

I first saw/noticed Mirren in PBS production of "Prime Suspect"

That's pretty late in her career! A friend who abhors film violence
foolishly rented "Caligula" because she wanted to see the work of a young
Helen Mirren after seeing her in "Prime." Boy was she taken aback. I asked
her "didn't you read the Netflix reviews?" and she said up until that point
she didn't bother. But she does now.

She's still fun in "Reds".

She's in "Reds?" All I remember is Warren Beatty and a lot of that film has
merged in my memory with Dr. Zhivago. Lots of howling wolves in the endless
treks through the woods. And all I really remember of "Reds" specifically
is Warren Beatty (John Reed?) taking a whizz and seeing blood. How's that
for selective memory?

a mostly yet unknown Liam Neeson and Patrick Stewart (aka Jean Luc
Picard).

Patrick Stewart is incredible in "Safe House", especially the ending line.

It was a pretty bold move to cast a Brit playing a Frenchman playing a Star
Fleet captain.

..snip...
dust. )-: Joanne Woodward! The neuron wasn't dead, it was just
sleeping.

Yes, excellent story line, but seemed VERY stiff. like a play taken to
screen, just 'self conscious'

That's exactly what it was, a play taken to the screen. Sometimes it works
well, sometimes it doesn't. I only really remember the scene where he turns
the table and diagnoses her by her clothes and attitude. And the part where
he guesses why another patient refuses to speak (because he thinks he is
silent film star Valentino).

I'm also a sucker for Shakespearean plots moved to modern day scenarios.
There are more such films than many people realize. As my wife will attest,
I even like the really bad ones. I'm also fond of 1950's SciFi films - the
ones with videophones that have rotary dials and lots of Tesla coils
sparking away.

I can't get over how physically small these people are, until you meet
them and find they're quite diminutive. Jane Fonda, who always appears as
the largest woman in a film usually equal in stature to her male co-stars,
top of her head comes up to my chin. Her largest finger is smaller than my
little finger!

BTDT. I saw Amy Carter when very young in the Olson's Record and Tape (how
anachronistic) store in DC next to my studio. Her face had always been
enlarged to fill the TV screen so when I saw her standing next to a huge
secret service agent she looked as if she had been hit with a shrink ray.
Lloyd Bridges (Seahunt) was also very, very small as were Paul Newman and a
few others I had met.

Actor size is not an issue with the magic of movies and holes dug for tall
leading ladies to stand in during close shots. But it always does freak
people out when they have to adjust their brains to cope with the real
height of someone they thought was much bigger. Sort of like ordering stuff
from the internet. I can't count how many times something was much smaller
or much larger than it appeared in the images.

She is perfectly proportioned, just miniature. But Cary
Grant was taller than me! Big dude. When we met him, he hugged my wife
[for far too long], so afterwards her eyes were glazed and forhours she
kept murmuring, "Cary Grant hugged me."

(-:

PS: my wife used to look a bit
like Catherine Deneuve, and was often mistaken for her while we would
travel Europe.

Wow. Lucky you. The closest I ever got to that sort of fame was dating a
woman who was the spitting image of the "Bionic Woman" whose name just went
hiding in the swiss cheese of my brain. Lindsay Wagner. People would come
up to us on the street and ask for her autograph.

--
Bobby G.

On Wed, 21 May 2014 07:04:39 -0700, Robert Green
wrote:

...snip...
in Boorman's "Excalibur" - another of my favorite films with
performances


I didn't know she was in that.

She's in "Reds?" All I remember is Warren Beatty and a lot of that film
has

arrrggg! that's RED, not REDS.

Warren Beatty would NOT allow his rather long film to be cut for TV. To
paraphrase, he said, "I understand cutting my film because of material
deemed offensive, but I will NOT allow you to cut based upon your
convenience." And thus "Reds" does not show a great deal on TV, at
substantial financial loss to WB.

...snip....regarding They Might Be Giants
he guesses why another patient refuses to speak (because he thinks he is
silent film star Valentino).

I thought he wouldn't speak because as a gentleman he had not been
'properly' introduced and therefore it was inappropriate for him to speak.
....an enjoyable bit of satire on British social customs.

I'm also a sucker for Shakespearean plots moved to modern day scenarios.
There are more such films than many people realize. As my wife will
attest,

excellent production and performance by Tenant, Dr. Who, playing Hamlet?

Patrick Stewart playing Henry III? WWII setting. or was that Branaugh? yep
a blur.

BTDT. I saw Amy Carter when very young in the Olson's Record and Tape
(how
anachronistic) store in DC next to my studio. Her face had always been
enlarged to fill the TV screen so when I saw her standing next to a huge
secret service agent she looked as if she had been hit with a shrink ray.

Never met Amy, but met Chip! If sons are like their fathers, Carter is a
good man. Verified by his often successful 'peace' forays, and when
Clinton almost got him killed, Carter doesn't speak to Clinton or even
share a diaz(sp?) with Clinton any longer! Good discernment.

Lloyd Bridges (Seahunt) was also very, very small as were Paul Newman
and a
few others I had met.

How met? involved in film industry?

hiding in the swiss cheese of my brain. Lindsay Wagner. People would
come
up to us on the street and ask for her autograph.

We would get that too, she would write out personal note [but not
specifically sign it, except as 'your friend', or such] whole groups of
people wanting to get a photo op, or special seating in restaurants, or my
memorable example, at Eiffel Tower where a block long line of people were
waiting, we were spotted and quickly escorted to the elevator, where we
went by ourselves, except for elevator operator, up to the top. Now THAT's
special treatment!