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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((

I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((

In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?

(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)

Cheers
Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why wholelot dead?

On 12/11/2011 15:59, Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((

I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((

In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small& visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?

(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)

Cheers
Jim K

Similar problem a few weeks ago. No trip but no heat. When I eposed
the element there was a hole in it - obviusly caused by overheating.
Element replaced - back to normal. look at the elemnt.

malcolm
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 4:37 pm, Malcolm wrote:
On 12/11/2011 15:59, Jim K wrote:

poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small& visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


Cheers
Jim K


Similar problem a few weeks ago. No trip but no heat. When I eposed
the element there was a hole in it - obviusly caused by overheating.
Element replaced - back to normal. look at the elemnt.

malcolm


element disconnected - oven still ALL dead

Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((

I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((

In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?

(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be the PCB
fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.



--
Adam


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 3:59 pm, Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((

I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((

In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?

(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)

Cheers
Jim K


More info

Out with the multimeter and been around and about:-

every wire to the PCB has 240v except one, following this back it goes
to what I think is a thermostat/overheat stat in the top oven (not the
one I was trying to use) then on straight back to one of two
identical "Roxburgh EMC" 4 terminal "cubes" right next to the incoming
mains connectors.

The "other" of these two "Roxburgh EMC" things has 240v at 3
terminals, and zero volts at the fourth (as is connected to supply
neutral)

Now the Roxburgh EMC cube where the non powered wire leads back to
only has 240v on 2 terminals (supply live and one other), obviously
not 240v where the followed wire connects.

Interestingly the terminal where the followed wire connects, when
tested on the other Roxburgh EMC cube shows 240v

Does the fault lie here somewhere or is it a symptom/clue of something
else? what to check next?

Cheers
Jim K


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be the PCB
fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.

--
Adam


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...
see other follow up for more poss revelations tho I am fully prepared
to get me coat.. ;)

Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be the PCB
fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.

--
Adam


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...
see other follow up for more poss revelations tho I am fully prepared
to get me coat.. ;)

Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan
element replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working
except no heat - mine has just killed itself as it turned on to
finish a fine stew for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power
up" of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after
selecting oven mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also
an internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and
only one fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?)
small & visibly fine - where else might I find the culprit of the
death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be
the PCB fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.

--
Adam


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?

If the connections to PCB are loose there may be no neutral to the PCB.
Often these connections are a ****ty push on connector or ribbon cable with
****e soldered connections.


see other follow up for more poss revelations tho I am fully prepared
to get me coat.. ;)


The only other follow up from you that I can see is where you have removed
the element and the oven display is dead. It will be unless you get the PCB
working!

Cheers

--
Adam


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 5:11 pm, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:



Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be the PCB
fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.


--
Adam


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...
see other follow up for more poss revelations tho I am fully prepared
to get me coat.. ;)

Jim K


feckin GG

right again:-
multimetering reports 240v at all wires to PCB except one..
that wire leads to what appears to be a thermostat/overheat stat then
striaght on to one of two "Roxburgh EMC" cubes near the incoming mains
connector block inside the casing.

There are two identical looking Roxburgh EMC cubes with 4 spade type
terminals on each.

The "other" one shows 240v at 3 out of 4 terminals (the 4th being
neutral from the incoming mains)
The one where this wire joins shows 240v at only 2 out of 4
terminals...

Is that it or a clue to what is going on?

Cheers
Jim K
PS watch out for the original post of this bit appearing
about .........."now"
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 5:15 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan
element replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working
except no heat - mine has just killed itself as it turned on to
finish a fine stew for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power
up" of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after
selecting oven mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also
an internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and
only one fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?)
small & visibly fine - where else might I find the culprit of the
death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be
the PCB fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.


--
Adam


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing

Jim K


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 4:46 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
poetically enough just a few days after the thread on oven fan element
replacement w tripping RCDs etc but oven still working except no heat
- mine has just killed itself as it turned on to finish a fine stew
for my tea ;(((


I suspect the fan element (again) as all was normal til the "power up"
of the element part of the turn on sequence (i.e. after selecting oven
mode and temp) then - dead.
No rcd trip, no MCB trip, no display, clock etc now all dead. ;(((


In the other thread someone mentioned their element going and also an
internal fuse being blown - got the back and top off mine and only one
fuse I can see on the control PCB - looks very (too?) small & visibly
fine - where else might I find the culprit of the death?


(If I can resurrect it I can cook me stew on another mode til I get
the suspect element replaced...)


A dead PCB/no clock etc will stop the oven from working. It could be the PCB
fuse or the connections to the PCB that are loose.


PCB fuse removed and tested - OK.

All connections to PCB feel very firm, they are spade connector types
and hard to see how they could have suddenly come loose.

Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim
K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing

Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"



--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim
K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing


Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff


duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?

Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim
K writes
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim
K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing


Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff


duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?


Well, I've not actually been following this thread

You could start by making measurements wrt neutral which would yield
meaningful results


--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing


Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff


duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?



You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.

--
Adam




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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...

240V potential measused against what?

erm... the earthed casing

Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff


duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?



You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.


but if everything is measuring 240v wrt earth, it implies there is no
neutral.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

charles wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...

240V potential measused against what?

erm... the earthed casing

Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff

duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?



You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.


but if everything is measuring 240v wrt earth, it implies there is no
neutral.



Ever been to Switzerland:-)

**** knows how they measure a voltage.



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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message , charles
writes
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...

240V potential measused against what?

erm... the earthed casing

Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff

duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?



You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.


but if everything is measuring 240v wrt earth, it implies there is no
neutral.

It means nothing of the sort

It just means that the measurement can't be trusted

Earth and Neutral are connected at the local substation.

Taking measurements with a high impedence meter wrt local earth will not
yield a trustworthy result

--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
charles wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes

Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...

240V potential measused against what?

erm... the earthed casing

Repeat after me

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

--
geoff

duly repeated ;))

ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))

any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?



You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.


but if everything is measuring 240v wrt earth, it implies there is no
neutral.



Ever been to Switzerland:-)

**** knows how they measure a voltage.

Didn't you know, that's how Yodelling was invented ...

when someone got it wrong

--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 12, 10:07 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , charles
writes

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:19 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
Jim K writes


Hiya
PCB fuse has 240v either side via me multimeter...


240V potential measused against what?


erm... the earthed casing


Repeat after me


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES
WITH RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


--
geoff


duly repeated ;))


ah the depth of my experience in this domain surfaces ;))


any suggestions how I can more usefully proceed?


You need to test against a neutral on the PCB.


but if everything is measuring 240v wrt earth, it implies there is no
neutral.


It means nothing of the sort

It just means that the measurement can't be trusted

Earth and Neutral are connected at the local substation.


come to mention it they are connected just outside on the overhead
supply line to the house... however I'll have another prod around, tho
would be great if I had a clue ;))

Jim K


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On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:59:41 -0000, Jim K wrote:

electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?


Everyone is dead in Oban? Oh no!

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

I'm not so think as you drunk I am...
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In article ,
Jim K writes:
More info

Out with the multimeter and been around and about:-

every wire to the PCB has 240v except one, following this back it goes
to what I think is a thermostat/overheat stat in the top oven (not the
one I was trying to use) then on straight back to one of two
identical "Roxburgh EMC" 4 terminal "cubes" right next to the incoming
mains connectors.

The "other" of these two "Roxburgh EMC" things has 240v at 3
terminals, and zero volts at the fourth (as is connected to supply
neutral)

Now the Roxburgh EMC cube where the non powered wire leads back to
only has 240v on 2 terminals (supply live and one other), obviously
not 240v where the followed wire connects.

Interestingly the terminal where the followed wire connects, when
tested on the other Roxburgh EMC cube shows 240v

Does the fault lie here somewhere or is it a symptom/clue of something
else? what to check next?


You could check if there's 240v across the cabinet overheat stat,
which might indicate it's gone open-circuit even when cold.

Another thought, and we've been caught out by this a few times...
On my parents' Smeg oven, it remains completely dead after a power
interruption until you set the clock.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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On Nov 13, 4:53 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Jim K writes:



More info


Out with the multimeter and been around and about:-


every wire to the PCB has 240v except one, following this back it goes
to what I think is a thermostat/overheat stat in the top oven (not the
one I was trying to use) then on straight back to one of two
identical "Roxburgh EMC" 4 terminal "cubes" right next to the incoming
mains connectors.


The "other" of these two "Roxburgh EMC" things has 240v at 3
terminals, and zero volts at the fourth (as is connected to supply
neutral)


Now the Roxburgh EMC cube where the non powered wire leads back to
only has 240v on 2 terminals (supply live and one other), obviously
not 240v where the followed wire connects.


Interestingly the terminal where the followed wire connects, when
tested on the other Roxburgh EMC cube shows 240v


Does the fault lie here somewhere or is it a symptom/clue of something
else? what to check next?


You could check if there's 240v across the cabinet overheat stat,
which might indicate it's gone open-circuit even when cold.


thanks I'll check, tho see below....

Another thought, and we've been caught out by this a few times...
On my parents' Smeg oven, it remains completely dead after a power
interruption until you set the clock.


On mine now the LED clock is not visible to set ;) *everything* is
dead as if turned off at mains (tho power is getting to it OK)

Would it be reasonable to assume that the thing should have some sign
of life if a thermostat had failed? e.g. enabling the display/clock...

Each time in the past that the (usually fan) element has gone, it will
all work except no heat, this time not a peep from any part of it ;((

I fear expense coming on ;((

Cheers
Jim K
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)

If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.

Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 14, 3:15 am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)

If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.

Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


I'm intrigued too, especially as N and E are joined together at the
supply pole outside....

Jim K


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)

If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.

Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop

There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results

It doesn't confirm that earth is anything wrt anything else


--
geoff
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Posts: 3,819
Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim K
writes
On Nov 14, 3:15 am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)

If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.

Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


I'm intrigued too, especially as N and E are joined together at the
supply pole outside....

In your case, maybe, but still you got a strange result

What about someone else's property where it isn't





--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes

En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop

There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?

Jim K
  #29   Report Post  
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Posts: 3,819
Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim K
writes
On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes

En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop

There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?

As I said, I hadn't followed the thread earlier



--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 14, 8:17 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes



On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes


En el art culo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribi :


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop


There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?

As I said, I hadn't followed the thread earlier

--
geoff


er... a fuse in situ on the PCB?

indicates to me it's an intact fuse? no? (which it is when removed and
tested for continuity)

if it were blown, and still read 240v either side what would be the
point of it?

Jim K


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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In article ,
geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes
On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes

En el artículo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribió:

"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"

Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)

If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.

Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.

Live is referenced to Neutral full stop

There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?


you would if no current was being drawn

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

  #32   Report Post  
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim K
writes
On Nov 14, 8:17 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes



On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes


En el art culo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribi :


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop


There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?

As I said, I hadn't followed the thread earlier

--
geoff


er... a fuse in situ on the PCB?

indicates to me it's an intact fuse? no? (which it is when removed and
tested for continuity)


Which is the way you usually measure a fuse


if it were blown, and still read 240v either side what would be the
point of it?

Depends if you were using a high impedance meter and measuring pick up /
coupling or whatever.



As the saying goes "If you think sex is a pain in the arse, you must be
doing it wrong"


Just measure Live wrt Neutral
measure a fuse by testing its resistance

--
geoff
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Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

On Nov 14, 11:24 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes



On Nov 14, 8:17 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes


On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes


En el art culo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribi :


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop


There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?


As I said, I hadn't followed the thread earlier


--
geoff


er... a fuse in situ on the PCB?


indicates to me it's an intact fuse? no? (which it is when removed and
tested for continuity)


Which is the way you usually measure a fuse


do you mean check?

if it were blown, and still read 240v either side what would be the
point of it?


Depends if you were using a high impedance meter and measuring pick up /
coupling or whatever.


??

As the saying goes "If you think sex is a pain in the arse, you must be
doing it wrong"

Just measure Live wrt Neutral
measure a fuse by testing its resistance


I'd use a ruler.... ;)

Jim K
  #34   Report Post  
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Posts: 3,819
Default electric double oben dead - suspect fan element but why whole lot dead?

In message
, Jim
K writes
On Nov 14, 11:24 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes



On Nov 14, 8:17 pm, geoff wrote:
In message
, Jim K
writes


On Nov 14, 7:06 pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes


En el art culo , geoff troll@uk-
diy.org escribi :


"I AM A VERY NAUGHTY BOY AND I SHALL NEVER MEASURE MAINS
VOLTAGES WITH
RESPECT TO EARTH AGAIN"


Why not? (not arguing, just want to understand)


If nothing else, it confirms that earth is earth.


Example: troubleshooting a hypothetical faulty appliance, at the
appliance I measure 240v between L and N, and 0v between L and E.
Either the flex is 2-core or there is an earth problem somewhere.


Live is referenced to Neutral full stop


There is no requirement for earth to be at any fixed potential wrt
either, and as the OP discovered, you can get false, misleading results


er hang on, where were the false misleading results again?


Was it not you who got 240V on both sides of something?


As I said, I hadn't followed the thread earlier


--
geoff


er... a fuse in situ on the PCB?


indicates to me it's an intact fuse? no? (which it is when removed and
tested for continuity)


Which is the way you usually measure a fuse


do you mean check?

if it were blown, and still read 240v either side what would be the
point of it?


Depends if you were using a high impedance meter and measuring pick up /
coupling or whatever.


??

As the saying goes "If you think sex is a pain in the arse, you must be
doing it wrong"

Just measure Live wrt Neutral
measure a fuse by testing its resistance


I'd use a ruler.... ;)

On an oben?

--
geoff
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