My Toro 20045 started misbehaving late last summer getting harder and
harder to start. After googling and watching Youtube, suggestions seemed
to be to clean and/or replace carburetor. Following that advice, I
carefully removed the carburetor, unscrewed the bowl and cleaned the jet
holes of the bowl jet and then proceeded to clean all of the indicated
holes of the carb. I did the cleaning first with shots of carb cleaner
spray followed by trash can tie wires through the holes and finally used
compressed air on each hole. I also checked the action of the float and
value and it seemed to be moving normally. Before replacing the carb, I
replaced the gaskets on each side. Once reinstalled and with several
primer pushes, still no start. My mower does start first pull and keeps
running only IF I remove the air filter cover, take out the air filter
and spray carb cleaner or gas into the carb entrance. Then I can
actually mow the grass once the filter is reinstalled but once it runs
out of gas, I have to go through the process of removing the filter
again to give it a shot of cleaner.

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. This is the type
of primer/ air filter assembly the mower has:
http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-OEM-BR...7FXY6FY435JQ40

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? I've
suspected that the no start problem may lie within this primer/ air
filter assembly, but I am not sure how to test it. I sent compressed
air into the short hose as seen in the image of the amazon link. What
is the short hose for? Is it supposed to pull gas from the tank when
the primer is pressed? When I remove this hose along with the air
filter assembly, should I be seeing gas dripping from that areas of the
mower. Obviously I do when removing the carb hose.

At this point, I think the problem lies in either the carb itself or the
air filter/ primer assembly. Before I run out and buy one or both
items, is there any way I can definitively test each item first? I wish
I knew more about how the primer assembly is supposed to work also.

I spent the weekend trying to get the mower starting the way it is
supposed to, but to no avail. The good news is that I got the yard
mowed, but each time I would have to refill the tank with gas, I'd have
to remove the air filter, spray a bit of carb cleaner into the carb, and
start first pull. This won't be fun if I have to do it all summer long.

Any help would surely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason

On 4/28/2014 7:37 AM, jason wrote:
My Toro 20045 started misbehaving late last summer getting harder and
harder to start. After googling and watching Youtube, suggestions seemed
to be to clean and/or replace carburetor. Following that advice, I
carefully removed the carburetor, unscrewed the bowl and cleaned the jet
holes of the bowl jet and then proceeded to clean all of the indicated
holes of the carb. I did the cleaning first with shots of carb cleaner
spray followed by trash can tie wires through the holes and finally used
compressed air on each hole. I also checked the action of the float and
value and it seemed to be moving normally. Before replacing the carb, I
replaced the gaskets on each side. Once reinstalled and with several
primer pushes, still no start. My mower does start first pull and keeps
running only IF I remove the air filter cover, take out the air filter
and spray carb cleaner or gas into the carb entrance. Then I can
actually mow the grass once the filter is reinstalled but once it runs
out of gas, I have to go through the process of removing the filter
again to give it a shot of cleaner.

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. This is the type
of primer/ air filter assembly the mower has:
http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-OEM-BR...7FXY6FY435JQ40

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? I've
suspected that the no start problem may lie within this primer/ air
filter assembly, but I am not sure how to test it. I sent compressed
air into the short hose as seen in the image of the amazon link. What
is the short hose for? Is it supposed to pull gas from the tank when
the primer is pressed? When I remove this hose along with the air
filter assembly, should I be seeing gas dripping from that areas of the
mower. Obviously I do when removing the carb hose.

At this point, I think the problem lies in either the carb itself or the
air filter/ primer assembly. Before I run out and buy one or both
items, is there any way I can definitively test each item first? I wish
I knew more about how the primer assembly is supposed to work also.

I spent the weekend trying to get the mower starting the way it is
supposed to, but to no avail. The good news is that I got the yard
mowed, but each time I would have to refill the tank with gas, I'd have
to remove the air filter, spray a bit of carb cleaner into the carb, and
start first pull. This won't be fun if I have to do it all summer long.

Any help would surely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason


I've done a bit of small engine work, over the years.
This might not be at all useful to you, but some time
when engine won't start on its own, the gasket between
the carb and the engine is leaking air. A bit of
Permatex IIb non hardening gasket sealer closes the
leak. Beware, the stuff is messy and doesn't come off
hands or clothing very well. gloves, and treat it like
hazardous waste.

On some engines, there is a choke plate that closes
when the throttle cable is all the way forward to
choke. Probably not issue, here. I'd think the primer
button would make gas go into the air stream. I think?

Please let us know when it's fixed, we can learn from
you.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

I agree there is something wrong in the primer area if you don't have an air leak as Stormy says. The fact that it runs ok once it is manually primed by adding gas directly says that the primer is most likely the problem.

I don't have any further advuice as I have never had to take apart any primer assembly. There should be some good advice here pretty shortly as you are not the first to have this problem.

On 4/28/2014 6:37 AM, jason wrote:
....

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. ...

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? ...

Ayup, if the primer bulb isn't pulling in gas, it's either not installed
correctly or the pickup is blocked or the new one is/was defective.
That's your first thing to resolve. (BTW, I _DETEST_ the switch away
from a standard old choke carb, but they didn't ask me...)

--

On Monday, April 28, 2014 9:47:48 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 4/28/2014 6:37 AM, jason wrote:

...



Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't

press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. ...



I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I

don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing

squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? ...



Ayup, if the primer bulb isn't pulling in gas, it's either not installed

correctly or the pickup is blocked or the new one is/was defective.

That's your first thing to resolve. (BTW, I _DETEST_ the switch away

from a standard old choke carb, but they didn't ask me...)



--

+1

The purpose of the prime bulb is to pump squirts of gas
into the carb. If you don't see, it, sounds like the
bulb isn't working. I'd disconnect the bulb line at the
carb and see what happens when the bulb is pushed.

I also agree that the traditional choke was better.
The biggest problem with the bulbs is they don't last,
crack and then it's a PIA.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:37:24 -0400, jason
wrote:

My Toro 20045 started misbehaving late last summer getting harder and
harder to start. After googling and watching Youtube, suggestions seemed
to be to clean and/or replace carburetor. Following that advice, I
carefully removed the carburetor, unscrewed the bowl and cleaned the jet
holes of the bowl jet and then proceeded to clean all of the indicated
holes of the carb. I did the cleaning first with shots of carb cleaner
spray followed by trash can tie wires through the holes and finally used
compressed air on each hole. I also checked the action of the float and
value and it seemed to be moving normally. Before replacing the carb, I
replaced the gaskets on each side. Once reinstalled and with several
primer pushes, still no start. My mower does start first pull and keeps
running only IF I remove the air filter cover, take out the air filter
and spray carb cleaner or gas into the carb entrance. Then I can
actually mow the grass once the filter is reinstalled but once it runs
out of gas, I have to go through the process of removing the filter
again to give it a shot of cleaner.

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. This is the type
of primer/ air filter assembly the mower has:
http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-OEM-BR...7FXY6FY435JQ40

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? I've
suspected that the no start problem may lie within this primer/ air
filter assembly, but I am not sure how to test it. I sent compressed
air into the short hose as seen in the image of the amazon link. What
is the short hose for? Is it supposed to pull gas from the tank when
the primer is pressed? When I remove this hose along with the air
filter assembly, should I be seeing gas dripping from that areas of the
mower. Obviously I do when removing the carb hose.

At this point, I think the problem lies in either the carb itself or the
air filter/ primer assembly. Before I run out and buy one or both
items, is there any way I can definitively test each item first? I wish
I knew more about how the primer assembly is supposed to work also.

I spent the weekend trying to get the mower starting the way it is
supposed to, but to no avail. The good news is that I got the yard
mowed, but each time I would have to refill the tank with gas, I'd have
to remove the air filter, spray a bit of carb cleaner into the carb, and
start first pull. This won't be fun if I have to do it all summer long.

Any help would surely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason


Some thoughts

Parts: Carburetor Assembly -Primer System

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/toro-20045-2100000012109999992001-lawn-mower-parts-c-121776_127291_127712.html

Fig. C134 - remove the needle seat and clean with it out.

Fig. C117 & C117A - Check the end of the bolt. If it has a hole, clean
it out.

Inside the "chamber" look for two tiny holes (air & fuel) venturi.
They can get debris inside and act as you mention. No seeing fuel.

The best way that I clean them is by using a stainless steel wire
plucked from a SS wire brush. Be careful using other wires as it is
possible to break them off.

The gas cap appears to have a vent on top. Make sure that is clear,
using a wire (paper clip). Easy test is to loosen the cap a bit or
just clear the hole if you like.

Sounds like you probably need to replace this gasket on the air
cleaner assembly or goop it up good with gasket sealer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Briggs-Strat...-/150904369521
and a youtube of course...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KshOeJWYw
Now how does it work, or rather how is it supposed to work? Unlike
most small engines that squirt some fuel into the carb, on a Briggs and
Stratton of this type the primer pressurizes the bowl of a float type of
carburetor pushing the fuel up into the throat of the carb. It is not
uncommon for those types that are mounted on the air box to not work
right due to warping of the plastic air filter back plate. If it is one
of these types, the least most expensive repair is to remove the back
plate and reinstall it with two gaskets.
More information and disinformation..
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=5&t=1036704

On Monday, April 28, 2014 1:30:20 PM UTC-4, Fat-Dumb and Happy wrote:
Sounds like you probably need to replace this gasket on the air

cleaner assembly or goop it up good with gasket sealer.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Briggs-Strat...-/150904369521

and a youtube of course...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KshOeJWYw

Now how does it work, or rather how is it supposed to work? Unlike

most small engines that squirt some fuel into the carb, on a Briggs and

Stratton of this type the primer pressurizes the bowl of a float type of

carburetor pushing the fuel up into the throat of the carb. It is not

uncommon for those types that are mounted on the air box to not work

right due to warping of the plastic air filter back plate. If it is one

of these types, the least most expensive repair is to remove the back

plate and reinstall it with two gaskets.

More information and disinformation..

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=5&t=1036704

Sorry, but an air cleaner gasket could not produce the
problem. An engine will run with a leaking air cleaner
gasket or the air cleaner completely off the engine.

Sorry, but an air cleaner gasket could not produce the
problem. An engine will run with a leaking air cleaner
gasket or the air cleaner completely off the engine.


On this one it does, the primer bulb is on the air cleaner and the
pressure from the bulb has to go through the gasket. Don't ask me why
they did it this way, probably seemed like a good idea at the time.
http://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratto.../dp/B00IA5BXU8

To the op
After you replaced the primer last summer, did it ever start correctly after that?

When did the starting problem start relative to when you replaced the primer?

Mark

On 04/29/2014 06:55 AM, wrote:
To the op
After you replaced the primer last summer, did it ever start correctly after that?

When did the starting problem start relative to when you replaced the primer?

Mark


When I replaced the primer, it took a lot of priming to get it going...
10-20 primes I would say. It was just getting worse and worse though.
I also noticed that when I removed the air filter assembly so I could
change out the primer, the gasket between the air filter and carb broke
in half. I didn't have another handy and just put it back together.
So it's possible that I might have initially offset priming trouble by
replacing the rubber bulb, but then recreated the problem when I didn't
replace the gasket.

Based on replies here, I went ahead and ordered a gasket "kit" that will
include gaskets for the carb bowl and jet as well as for the one between
the air filter and carb. The next step will be to replace the gaskets
and see what happens.

Once I start the mower first pull after spraying gas into the carb and
replacing the air filter, the mower runs fine and easily cuts the lawn,
so at least I have had little down time.

jason

On Monday, April 28, 2014 2:15:46 PM UTC-4, Fat-Dumb and Happy wrote:
Sorry, but an air cleaner gasket could not produce the

problem. An engine will run with a leaking air cleaner

gasket or the air cleaner completely off the engine.





On this one it does, the primer bulb is on the air cleaner and the

pressure from the bulb has to go through the gasket. Don't ask me why

they did it this way, probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

http://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratto.../dp/B00IA5BXU8

But then he should see gas spraying out of this carb primer plate.
He says he doens't see gas getting to the carb when he pushes the prime
bulb.

Yeah, he needs to be able to see some raw gas when looking in to the carburetor from the removed air cleaner and pushing the primer.

UPDATE 5/3:

The carb gasket kit arrived two days ago and I replaced the carb to air
cleaner gasket as well as the other gaskets in the carb. Still no
prime. I even doubled up the carb/ air cleaner gasket, but this still
didn't help. Finally, I removed the primer bulb and cleaned the screen
underneath thoroughly with compressed air. Replaced the bulb and still
no prime when pushed. Just to re-confirm that the carb was ok, I once
again sprayed a little gas directly into the carb and the mower started
right up.

I think the only thing left here is replacement of the entire air filter
holder.

Jason


My Toro 20045 started misbehaving late last summer getting harder and
harder to start. After googling and watching Youtube, suggestions seemed
to be to clean and/or replace carburetor. Following that advice, I
carefully removed the carburetor, unscrewed the bowl and cleaned the jet
holes of the bowl jet and then proceeded to clean all of the indicated
holes of the carb. I did the cleaning first with shots of carb cleaner
spray followed by trash can tie wires through the holes and finally used
compressed air on each hole. I also checked the action of the float and
value and it seemed to be moving normally. Before replacing the carb, I
replaced the gaskets on each side. Once reinstalled and with several
primer pushes, still no start. My mower does start first pull and keeps
running only IF I remove the air filter cover, take out the air filter
and spray carb cleaner or gas into the carb entrance. Then I can
actually mow the grass once the filter is reinstalled but once it runs
out of gas, I have to go through the process of removing the filter
again to give it a shot of cleaner.

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. This is the type
of primer/ air filter assembly the mower has:
http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-OEM-BR...7FXY6FY435JQ40

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? I've
suspected that the no start problem may lie within this primer/ air
filter assembly, but I am not sure how to test it. I sent compressed
air into the short hose as seen in the image of the amazon link. What
is the short hose for? Is it supposed to pull gas from the tank when
the primer is pressed? When I remove this hose along with the air
filter assembly, should I be seeing gas dripping from that areas of the
mower. Obviously I do when removing the carb hose.

At this point, I think the problem lies in either the carb itself or the
air filter/ primer assembly. Before I run out and buy one or both
items, is there any way I can definitively test each item first? I wish
I knew more about how the primer assembly is supposed to work also.

I spent the weekend trying to get the mower starting the way it is
supposed to, but to no avail. The good news is that I got the yard
mowed, but each time I would have to refill the tank with gas, I'd have
to remove the air filter, spray a bit of carb cleaner into the carb, and
start first pull. This won't be fun if I have to do it all summer long.

Any help would surely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:18:30 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
UPDATE 5/3:



The carb gasket kit arrived two days ago and I replaced the carb to air

cleaner gasket as well as the other gaskets in the carb. Still no

prime.

There is still no prime because none of that has anything to do
with the prime. The primer is just a bulb that pumps gas through
a hose to the carb. Gas should squirt into the carb and out the
end of the hose if it's disconnected, without regard to any carb
gaskets.



I even doubled up the carb/ air cleaner gasket, but this still

didn't help. Finally, I removed the primer bulb and cleaned the screen

underneath thoroughly with compressed air. Replaced the bulb and still

no prime when pushed. Just to re-confirm that the carb was ok, I once

again sprayed a little gas directly into the carb and the mower started

right up.



I think the only thing left here is replacement of the entire air filter

holder.



Isn't there a gas line from the primer bulb to the carb? I asked
previously, if it's disconnected and you push the bulb, do you get gas?
If you get gas, then there must be an obstruction in the orifice
between where the hose connects and the carb throat.

If you don't get gas, (which I suspect), then the problem is
with the primer bulb, lines, ie something in that path and
screwing with the carb isn't going to fix it.

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

Calm down Jason. Early on I offered my thoughts about the air / fuel
venturis in the carb throat and how to clean them without breaking a
wire off in them. They are smaller than the wire tie wire you used in
other places. It they are clogged I very much doubt you will see fuel.

You never even stated that you looked or tried to clean them, based on
my suggestion. Your bat, your ball. People are trying to help you.

Did you ever consider that the push bulb has weakened? They do become
weak and may not prime or push the fuel. Did you follow what Trader
said about disconnecting the fuel line to see it the bulb will pump
fuel?

People here can only offer help. Nobody expects you to take advice
for the free offering. So don't have a break down over this. You could
pop a vessel.

On 05/03/2014 07:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

Calm down Jason. Early on I offered my thoughts about the air / fuel
venturis in the carb throat and how to clean them without breaking a
wire off in them. They are smaller than the wire tie wire you used in
other places. It they are clogged I very much doubt you will see fuel.

You never even stated that you looked or tried to clean them, based on
my suggestion. Your bat, your ball. People are trying to help you.

Did you ever consider that the push bulb has weakened? They do become
weak and may not prime or push the fuel. Did you follow what Trader
said about disconnecting the fuel line to see it the bulb will pump
fuel?

People here can only offer help. Nobody expects you to take advice
for the free offering. So don't have a break down over this. You could
pop a vessel.

No problem, Owen. For now, I think I'm just going to await the arrival
of the new air filter assembly, install it, and see what happens. The
good news is that, no matter what, I can still give the carb a shot of
gas or carb cleaner, start up and do the lawn on a single tank, so I
think I need to consider this lack of prime a minor issue.

I will try what Trader suggested I think early next week before arrival
of the assembly just to try and get some confirmations.

Jason

On 5/3/2014 7:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that
there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you
are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push
the primer bulb??!!

Calm down Jason.

People here can only offer help. Nobody expects you to take advice
for the free offering. So don't have a break down over this. You could
pop a vessel.


My sense of this conversation is that HR Puffn-
stuff was a bit intense, and Jason is actually
being more the gentleman that I'd have been.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 03 May 2014 20:26:36 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 07:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

Calm down Jason. Early on I offered my thoughts about the air / fuel
venturis in the carb throat and how to clean them without breaking a
wire off in them. They are smaller than the wire tie wire you used in
other places. It they are clogged I very much doubt you will see fuel.

You never even stated that you looked or tried to clean them, based on
my suggestion. Your bat, your ball. People are trying to help you.

Did you ever consider that the push bulb has weakened? They do become
weak and may not prime or push the fuel. Did you follow what Trader
said about disconnecting the fuel line to see it the bulb will pump
fuel?

People here can only offer help. Nobody expects you to take advice
for the free offering. So don't have a break down over this. You could
pop a vessel.

No problem, Owen. For now, I think I'm just going to await the arrival
of the new air filter assembly, install it, and see what happens. The
good news is that, no matter what, I can still give the carb a shot of
gas or carb cleaner, start up and do the lawn on a single tank, so I
think I need to consider this lack of prime a minor issue.

I will try what Trader suggested I think early next week before arrival
of the assembly just to try and get some confirmations.


Jason,

You can call me Oren. Throwing parts and money at a problem is not
the best solution. People here discuss it. Doing so, you may stumble
on the fix, but you may not really find the root cause of problem.

Let us know what happens. We also like to hear about solutions.

On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping
the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.
2 cycles pump gas thru the carb but 4 cycle B&S use AIR PRESSURE to
force fuel up thru the jet to the throat of the carb.
The backcheck pressure bleed under the welch plug is probably
thoroughly crudded and needs to be rodded out and cleaned per the B&S
carb repair guides.
--
Mr.E

On 05/03/2014 09:32 PM, Mr.E wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!

I lost count.

"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will
stick"


OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what
continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen
underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and
reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how
I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to
install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will
also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because
I don't know of any more alternatives.

Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the
suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others
who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One
way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.

Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping
the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.
2 cycles pump gas thru the carb but 4 cycle B&S use AIR PRESSURE to
force fuel up thru the jet to the throat of the carb.
The backcheck pressure bleed under the welch plug is probably
thoroughly crudded and needs to be rodded out and cleaned per the B&S
carb repair guides.

Can you provide me to an online resource for doing this task? I noticed
one
or two metal plugs were included with the carb kit
and I wasn't sure of their purpose. I did not attempt to touch these
when cleaning the carb. I have some version of the B&S manual for this
engine, but the content seems to cover several carb versions and I find
it difficult to pin down exact information.

Thanks,
Jason

On Sun, 04 May 2014 08:01:00 -0400, jason
wrote:



Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping
the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.
2 cycles pump gas thru the carb but 4 cycle B&S use AIR PRESSURE to
force fuel up thru the jet to the throat of the carb.
The backcheck pressure bleed under the welch plug is probably
thoroughly crudded and needs to be rodded out and cleaned per the B&S
carb repair guides.

Can you provide me to an online resource for doing this task? I noticed
one
or two metal plugs were included with the carb kit
and I wasn't sure of their purpose. I did not attempt to touch these
when cleaning the carb. I have some version of the B&S manual for this
engine, but the content seems to cover several carb versions and I find
it difficult to pin down exact information.


I read a factory service manual that a friend had- I had never seen a
"How it works" in any of the online references. Might check youtube.
--
Mr.E

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:18:13 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason

wrote:



On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!



I lost count.



"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will

stick"





OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what

continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen

underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and

reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how

I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to

install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will

also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because

I don't know of any more alternatives.



Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the

suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others

who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One

way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.



Calm down Jason. Early on I offered my thoughts about the air / fuel

venturis in the carb throat and how to clean them without breaking a

wire off in them. They are smaller than the wire tie wire you used in


Agree. I was wondering about that too. In general
shoving a wire into those openings is not a good idea.
Also, in many carbs, you can't get to all the openings
that need to be cleaned without removing welch plugs.
If you buy a carb rebuild kit, it comes with all the
gaskets, needle valves, welch plugs, etc. It also
helps to see if you can find a shop manual online that
details how to service the carb.





other places. It they are clogged I very much doubt you will see fuel.



You never even stated that you looked or tried to clean them, based on

my suggestion. Your bat, your ball. People are trying to help you.



Did you ever consider that the push bulb has weakened? They do become

weak and may not prime or push the fuel. Did you follow what Trader

said about disconnecting the fuel line to see it the bulb will pump

fuel?



People here can only offer help. Nobody expects you to take advice

for the free offering. So don't have a break down over this. You could

pop a vessel.

IDK exactly how these priming bulb systems work.
Presumably I would think there must be some check
valve to keep the fuel going only one way when the
bulb is pressed. Perhaps someone here knows exactly
how they work.

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 9:32:14 PM UTC-4, Mr. E wrote:
On Sat, 03 May 2014 18:49:43 -0400, Jason

wrote:



On 05/03/2014 04:50 PM, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 3 May 2014 13:14:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



How many people have to tell you that there is something wrong with the PRIMER since you are not getting a squirt of gasoline when you push the primer bulb??!!



I lost count.



"throw is against the wall long enough, eventually something will

stick"





OK, THAT'S (the PRIMER BULB) what I keep checking and THAT's what

continues NOT to spray out gas despite cleaning it and the screen

underneath, replacing nearly all the gaskets, removing, cleaning and

reseating the primer bulb..... what more could I do??? I don't see how

I could be reseating it improperly as there seems to be only one way to

install the damned thing. So, with the new air filter assembly, will

also come a new primer as well. I hope this cures the problems because

I don't know of any more alternatives.



Some of you folks don't need to get nasty or impatient just because the

suggestions you keep aiming at me aren't doing the job. To the others

who are showing the appropriate courtesy and patience, I thank you. One

way or the other this "dog" will be fixed.



Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping

the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.


This guy who seems to know what he's talking about
in an engine that sounds similar to what the OP has
says the primer does indeed push gas into the carb
throat.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=5&t=1036704

WRONG! On a Briggs and Stratton the primer pressurizes the bowl of a float type of carburetor pushing the fuel up into the throat of the carb. Without knowing the specific model I can't give any really good suggestions. It is not uncommon for those types that are mounted on the air box to not work right due to warping of the plastic air filter back plate. If it is one of these types, the least most expensive repair is to remove the back plate and reinstall it with two gaskets.


And if the primer bulb doesnt' result in a squirt of
gas getting into the throat, how exactly do they enrich
the fuel/air mix to get the engine started? They
typically don't have manual chokes on them anymore.





2 cycles pump gas thru the carb but 4 cycle B&S use AIR PRESSURE to

force fuel up thru the jet to the throat of the carb.

The backcheck pressure bleed under the welch plug is probably

thoroughly crudded and needs to be rodded out and cleaned per the B&S

carb repair guides.

--

Mr.E

On Sun, 4 May 2014 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Early on I offered my thoughts about the air / fuel

venturis in the carb throat and how to clean them without breaking a

wire off in them. They are smaller than the wire tie wire you used in


Agree. I was wondering about that too. In general
shoving a wire into those openings is not a good idea.
Also, in many carbs, you can't get to all the openings
that need to be cleaned without removing welch plugs.
If you buy a carb rebuild kit, it comes with all the
gaskets, needle valves, welch plugs, etc. It also
helps to see if you can find a shop manual online that
details how to service the carb.

GUNK make a parts cleaning kit for soaking parts. I've used them many
times on carburetors and they work. Reviews here look bad, but I
suspect a short soak and not following directions give people a bad
taste.

http://www.amazon.com/Gunk-CC3K-Carburetor-Cleaner-Basket/dp/B000ABGA4E/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

I soak them ~ 24 hours, wash with water and blow off / out with
compressed air. Then use some carb cleaner spray. You can buy smaller
kits than this one. The carb has to be broke down all the way - even
seats, etc.

On Sat, 03 May 2014 21:32:14 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping
the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.

I have two B&S engines. The one with a manual choke works like you
say. The one with a primer bulb sprays gas into the throat. YMMV.
--
"People who worry about crocodiles are smart!" -Joe Machi

On Sun, 04 May 2014 12:41:59 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 03 May 2014 21:32:14 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

Somehow most of the posters think a 4-cycle B&S sprays gas by pumping
the gas thru a primer bulb. It does not.

I have two B&S engines. The one with a manual choke works like you
say. The one with a primer bulb sprays gas into the throat. YMMV.

My leaf blower, weed eater, tiller and chain saw all have a primer
bulb and a choke. The primer bulb gets the fuel to the carb and sprays
a little fuel into the throat of the carb and the choke causes a low
pressure in the throat when the when pulling the start cord. I have
had the chokes butterfly not close completely because of trash between
the choke butterfly and the throat of the carb or a cable that needed
to be adjusted. I am not familiar with a motor that dosen't have a
choke.

Jason,

Sorry if I came on a bit strong, but you kept on talking about replacing gaskets and air filter related parts, and seemed to have mostly ignored the primer suggestions. Take a good look at the primer set-up and see if you can tell how it is supposed to operate. One way or another, you have to get some raw gas into the intake manifold to get things started.

Just an update: The air filter/primer assembly arrived today:

http://tinyurl.com/o3rlm7q

Took 5 minutes to install it and after 2 primes, the mower started right
up. Problem solved.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. This still wasn't that
expensive of a repair and I know it would have been much more if I took
it to the local lawn mower repair shop.

Jason

My Toro 20045 started misbehaving late last summer getting harder and
harder to start. After googling and watching Youtube, suggestions seemed
to be to clean and/or replace carburetor. Following that advice, I
carefully removed the carburetor, unscrewed the bowl and cleaned the jet
holes of the bowl jet and then proceeded to clean all of the indicated
holes of the carb. I did the cleaning first with shots of carb cleaner
spray followed by trash can tie wires through the holes and finally used
compressed air on each hole. I also checked the action of the float and
value and it seemed to be moving normally. Before replacing the carb, I
replaced the gaskets on each side. Once reinstalled and with several
primer pushes, still no start. My mower does start first pull and keeps
running only IF I remove the air filter cover, take out the air filter
and spray carb cleaner or gas into the carb entrance. Then I can
actually mow the grass once the filter is reinstalled but once it runs
out of gas, I have to go through the process of removing the filter
again to give it a shot of cleaner.

Last summer, the primer bulb had cracked to the point where it wouldn't
press or release properly anymore and I replaced it. This is the type
of primer/ air filter assembly the mower has:
http://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-OEM-BR...7FXY6FY435JQ40

I notice that when I have the air filter removed and press the primer, I
don't see anything happening in the carb chamber. Shouldn't I be seeing
squirts of fuel entering the carb when the primer is pushed? I've
suspected that the no start problem may lie within this primer/ air
filter assembly, but I am not sure how to test it. I sent compressed
air into the short hose as seen in the image of the amazon link. What
is the short hose for? Is it supposed to pull gas from the tank when
the primer is pressed? When I remove this hose along with the air
filter assembly, should I be seeing gas dripping from that areas of the
mower. Obviously I do when removing the carb hose.

At this point, I think the problem lies in either the carb itself or the
air filter/ primer assembly. Before I run out and buy one or both
items, is there any way I can definitively test each item first? I wish
I knew more about how the primer assembly is supposed to work also.

I spent the weekend trying to get the mower starting the way it is
supposed to, but to no avail. The good news is that I got the yard
mowed, but each time I would have to refill the tank with gas, I'd have
to remove the air filter, spray a bit of carb cleaner into the carb, and
start first pull. This won't be fun if I have to do it all summer long.

Any help would surely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jason

On Wed, 07 May 2014 17:21:17 -0400, jason
wrote:

Just an update: The air filter/primer assembly arrived today:

http://tinyurl.com/o3rlm7q

Took 5 minutes to install it and after 2 primes, the mower started right
up. Problem solved.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. This still wasn't that
expensive of a repair and I know it would have been much more if I took
it to the local lawn mower repair shop.

Jason

Thanks for the update...now cut the grass!

On 05/07/2014 05:25 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 17:21:17 -0400, jason
wrote:

Just an update: The air filter/primer assembly arrived today:

http://tinyurl.com/o3rlm7q

Took 5 minutes to install it and after 2 primes, the mower started right
up. Problem solved.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. This still wasn't that
expensive of a repair and I know it would have been much more if I took
it to the local lawn mower repair shop.

Jason

Thanks for the update...now cut the grass!

Thanks. Actually, no problem cutting grass because I'd just squirt some
gas into the carb, replace the air filter, and one pull start . Now
it will be nice to not have to do that. During my so many adjustments
with the prior assembly, I ended up stripping one of the attachment
screws. Initially, I thought I was going to have to use a tap of the
next larger screw size but I just used a stainless screw slightly larger
and it did well.... for now. I may have to tap larger at some future
point. I believe the carb is aluminum so easy to strip if not careful I
guess.

Only thing remaining is no electric start.... haven't had this for
several years and I already know it's the battery but I've never found a
cheap battery, so have been starting it the old fashioned way for nearly
4 years. Guess I'll stay with the manual way unless I can find a
decent, cheap battery somewhere.

On 5/7/2014 5:21 PM, jason wrote:
Just an update: The air filter/primer assembly arrived today:

http://tinyurl.com/o3rlm7q

Took 5 minutes to install it and after 2 primes, the mower started right
up. Problem solved.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. This still wasn't that
expensive of a repair and I know it would have been much more if I took
it to the local lawn mower repair shop.

Jason


Thank you. I just love success stories.
You are very kind to share what works.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..