Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
I learned something new yesterday.
I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even legal to use lead in plumbing anymore. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On Monday, February 17, 2014 10:43:10 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even legal to use lead in plumbing anymore. Given that it was shown on TOH, I bet you're wrong that it's not code compliant. I agree it sounds weird, but from what I've seen on that show, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix. As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow, whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and put in a Fernco. Not even sure that's better, because then you have a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something leaks, you'll see it. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
philoÂ* writes:
On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even legal to use lead in plumbing anymore. This was a waste pipe and with the oakum, I don't think there is any water/lead contact. -- Dan Espen |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On 02/17/2014 09:53 AM, wrote:
X Xw, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix. As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow, whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and put in a Fernco. Not even sure that's better, because then you have a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something leaks, you'll see it. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300g-6 Ok, looks like it's legit. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On 2/17/2014 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? Sounds unsafe, to me. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
" wrote:
On Monday, February 17, 2014 10:43:10 AM UTC-5, philo wrote: On 02/17/2014 09:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even legal to use lead in plumbing anymore. Given that it was shown on TOH, I bet you're wrong that it's not code compliant. I agree it sounds weird, but from what I've seen on that show, they never violate code or take a quick, unsound fix. BTW...it was TOH as you stated, not ATOH, as I originally stated. As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow, whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and put in a Fernco. Almost what they were dealing with except the female fitting came out of the stone foundation up about 3' from the floor. Either way, it would have been a major PITA to get to use a Fernco in this situation. Not even sure that's better, because then you have a Fernco buried under concrete. The way they did it, if something leaks, you'll see it. Probably not. The reason why they were replacing the old cast iron drain was because it hung down from the ceiling in a an area of the basement that they are finishing. All of the new pipes will be hidden behind finished walls. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/17/2014 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I learned something new yesterday. I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On Ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? How would it not? Sounds unsafe, to me. Why? |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote: I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? How would it not? Sounds unsafe, to me. Why? If the oakum were set up as a dam. Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe.
On ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow, whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and put in a Fernco. Code or not, I doubt many people have lead and oakum available these days, or the skill to use them. I know I wouldn't attempt something like that. On TOH it looked like there was probably an inch of pipe behind the hub that was still sticking out of the concrete. If I was in that same situation, I would use a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut off the hub. Then I would drill and/or chisel the concrete back enough that I could use a commonly available Fernco coupling on the iron pipe. Of course, if you want the easy way of handling it, you could use a Fernco donut: http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/donuts-o-rings/donuts There's usually more than one way to get a job done... Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On 2/17/2014 10:43 AM, philo wrote:
There are fittings made for exactly that purpose, I doubt it's even legal to use lead in plumbing anymore. No lead for the supply side, OK for the drains. |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
HerHusband wrote:
I never knew that you could use lead and oakum with PVC pipe. On ask this Old House they were attaching a new PVC drain pipe to the existing cast iron where it went through the foundation. They cleaned out the old lead and oakum, inserted the PVC fitting, stuffed in the oakum and poured in the lead. They said they had to wait at least a half hour for the PVC to cool before continuing the work. As to fittings made for that purpose, I can invison a female elbow, whatever, emerging at the level of a concrete floor, where the outlined approach would work and where it would be a bitch to tear it all out and put in a Fernco. Code or not, I doubt many people have lead and oakum available these days, or the skill to use them. I know I wouldn't attempt something like that. On TOH it looked like there was probably an inch of pipe behind the hub that was still sticking out of the concrete. If I was in that same situation, I would use a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel to cut off the hub. Then I would drill and/or chisel the concrete back enough that I could use a commonly available Fernco coupling on the iron pipe. Watch the video here, starting around 19:30 http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/v...782908,00.html There is no straight pipe exposed to attach a Fernco to. In addition (no pun intended) it's a rubble stone foundation. I doubt you could easily chisel the rock out to expose enough pipe for a Fernco. Of course, if you want the easy way of handling it, you could use a Fernco donut: http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/donuts-o-rings/donuts That's what I used to upgrade the shower in my basement. The original "base" was the slab itself with a hole cut in it. A kitchen sink strainer was then dropped in the hole to prevent stuff from falling in. I jack hammered the floor, removed the cast iron back to the wye and use a Fernco donut to accept the PVC. However, i don't know if Fernco makes a donut that is not also a reducer. You will note they lead in what appears to be a 4" pipe to keep the size consistent with the cast iron. I don't think you'd want to reduce the main drain down to anything less than 4". I don't know if you are even allowed to. If Fernco makes a donut for that connection, I agree that that would work also. There's usually more than one way to get a job done... Of course, getting it done right matters also. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? How would it not? Sounds unsafe, to me. Why? If the oakum were set up as a dam. Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire. That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't seal. The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On Monday, February 17, 2014 4:21:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote: On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? How would it not? Sounds unsafe, to me. Why? If the oakum were set up as a dam. Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire. That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't seal. The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire. Certainly an interesting video. I wouldn't think lead would set the PVC on fire, but I would have thought it might melt it enough to damage it. But it obviously works. |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
" wrote:
On Monday, February 17, 2014 4:21:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: On 2/17/2014 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: I assume the softening and then hardening of the PVC is what gives the lead the bite it needs to hold. Did the molten lead touch the plastic? How would it not? Sounds unsafe, to me. Why? If the oakum were set up as a dam. Hot lead, melt plastic. Light fire. That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't seal. The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire. Certainly an interesting video. I wouldn't think lead would set the PVC on fire, but I would have thought it might melt it enough to damage it. But it obviously works. Nit pickin', but I'm sure it does damage the PVC. I'm sure that if you could see the PVC under the lead the exterior of the PVC would be "damaged". However, even if it damaged the interior surface a little by making it wavy, it would probably still be smoother than cast iron junctions, cast-to-PVC with a Fernco, etc. The hint was that they had to wait a half hour before they could work with the PVC fitting. I'm guessing it was pretty soft for quite a while. |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
|
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
Watch the video here, starting around 19:30
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/v...782908,00.html There is no straight pipe exposed to attach a Fernco to. In addition (no pun intended) it's a rubble stone foundation. I doubt you could easily chisel the rock out to expose enough pipe for a Fernco. It's hard to tell from the video, but it still looks like there's a little bit of pipe between the hub and wall. I didn't realize it was a stone foundation, but that probably means there's just mortar around the pipe which would be a lot easier to chisel out than concrete. I don't know if Fernco makes a donut that is not also a reducer. I don't know either, I have never needed to use one. All of the work I have done these days uses three inch PVC anyway, which slips inside 4" cast iron easily. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote: That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't seal. The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire. Bull****, molten lead is VERY HOT. Im sure the melting temp for lead in online, but I dont have time to look. Yea, lead is legal to use on drains. They make a compound that comes in a can for this. Insert fitting, add oakum, put in this compound with a putty knife, and let it harden. (I've done this many times) OR Use a short piece of cast iron pipe, lead it into the fitting, and use a fernco coupling. (I've done this a couple times). I would not even consider using lead on PVC. Even if it dont start on fire, the smell must be terrible. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:24:14 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote: Nit pickin', but I'm sure it does damage the PVC. I looked it up. Lead melts at 327.5 °C (621.5 °F). |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:24:14 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03 wrote: Nit pickin', but I'm sure it does damage the PVC. I looked it up. Lead melts at 327.5 °C (621.5 °F). Good for you. Now go look up the ignition temperature of PVC. Let me know if you still claim BS about the lead setting the PVC on fire. We'll wait. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03 wrote: That's how lead and oakum works. The oakum acts as a dam and gives the lead something to grab onto. If the lead didn't contact the PVC it wouldn't seal. The lead is not hot enough to set the PVC on fire. Bull****, molten lead is VERY HOT. Who said it wasn't very hot? However, your BS claim just doesn't work. Watch the video. Nothing caught on fire. Im sure the melting temp for lead in online, but I dont have time to look. Yea, lead is legal to use on drains. They make a compound that comes in a can for this. Insert fitting, add oakum, put in this compound with a putty knife, and let it harden. (I've done this many times) OR Use a short piece of cast iron pipe, lead it into the fitting, and use a fernco coupling. (I've done this a couple times). I would not even consider using lead on PVC. Even if it dont start on fire, the smell must be terrible. |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Lead, Oakum and PVC
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Jute Chinking - Oakum source... | Woodworking | |||
Chemical test for SnPb lead/ RoHS lead-free solder | Electronics Repair | |||
Lead burning/tack welding torch - boiler flue through lead roof | UK diy | |||
LED Lead ID | Electronic Schematics | |||
Lead-Free vs. 63/37 tin/lead solder | Electronics Repair |