Here's the story:
Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building
Apartment on 3rd floor

Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).

Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).

The sink does not have this problem.

Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?

Any other ideas?

wrote in message ...
Here's the story:
Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building
Apartment on 3rd floor

Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).

Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).

The sink does not have this problem.

Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?

Any other ideas?

===

Does this piping arrangement look reasonable?
http://imageshack.com/a/img585/9852/rz5i.gif

On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:55:53 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Here's the story:
Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building
Apartment on 3rd floor

What street, between what two avenues?

None of the discussion of NY water that I've read has ever brought up
specific location within the city, but I don't see how it could not be
very relevant.

I lived for one year on the 4th floor of 420 Clinton Ave. in Brooklyn,
and for 10 years on the 5th floor of the same six-story building.

I had no water problems on the fourth floor, but did on the fifth, not
exacctly like yours, but might be related. Well, don't get your hopes
up. As I write, my expectation gets lower, so just consider this a
novel, and not as help.

Before you get to the novel, what happens when you flush the toilet
while the shower is running? The building uses flushometers, right?
Not tank toilets? Does it change the temp of the water?


The novel starts he

After about 4 years, the widowed owner, who had probably helped run the
building when her husband was alive, didn't want the burden anymore, or
wanted to move to Florida, and she sold it to a Greek immigrant, a
plumber!

I thought that meant one of two things. We'd get any plumbing problems
solved quickly and well because he was a plumber. OR We'd get plumbing
problems solved last, because he always wanted to work for paying
customers. But as I've said, there is always a 3rd possibility.

The 3rd was that he thought he was a plumber but he was no good at it,
at least he didn't understand plumbing over 4 stories. (nor could he
fix the oil pipe that went to the oil furnace, and it dripped for years,
I think.)

Clinton Ave. goes to the top of Clinton Hill, and it's really a hill so
it's that much higher than a building only a few feet higher than the
river or harbor.

City water pressure is supposed to be able to push the water up to the
5th floor, and if the building is 6 floors, like ours was, there is an
water/air tank in the basement. A water pump forces water into the
bottom of the tank, compressing the air inside, until the pressure is
enough to turn off the water pump. Then the air forces the water to
even to the 5th floor, until the air pressure drops and the water pump
goes on again.

Eventually air in the top of the tank is absorbed by the water in the
bottom, and some other gauge turns on the air pump which runs fof a
while.

Probably because the new owner was confused by all this, he turned off
the air pump completely and let the water pump run constantly. Using I
believe a lot more electricity than needed, and I think respsonsible for
my shower problems. That was, if the mixed water was not TOO hot to
begin with, when someone in the same line and perhaps the same bathroom
within that line flushed the toilet the water then became too cold to
stand under. If we had had tank toilets, refilling the tank would have
taken only a little water at a time, but since it was a flushometer, it
used a lot to flush, and he ddin't know how to maintain pressure. .
The tub was big enough to move, but I was cold already. Eventually I
switched to baths, in my great big 1930 luxury building bathtub, so big
I could float with only 1 square inch of my skin touching the tub.

I found a book in the libary that devoted one page to explaining how it
was supposed to work, complete with a diagram, and I gave him a copy,
but it made no difference.

He wasnt' really a plumber it turned out. He only knew how to install
trash compactors using water pressure to power them. IOW, all he knew
was how to screw pipes together.


Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).

Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).

The sink does not have this problem.

Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?

Doesnt' seem likely. Are these co-ops? If so, anything is possible.
Someone with a co-op even hired me as an electrician, if you can believe
that.

Any other ideas?

Flushing toilets. Maybe someone goes to the toilet a lot, maybe every
10 minutes, (some medical problems can cause this) and that's why he
always does so a minute after you start a shower. Maybe the sound of
running water in your shower makes him want to go to the bathroom.
(Although in my apt. I could never hear water running upstairs, from
anything. )

On 1/15/2014 8:55 PM, wrote:
Here's the story:
Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building
Apartment on 3rd floor

Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).

Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).

The sink does not have this problem.

Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?

Any other ideas?

I live in a trailer, in a park. I have some what
the same problem, after a couple seconds. Have
to set the hot faucet, and a couple second later,
turn the faucet open a bit more. I've always
thought it was just the faucet washer expanding
when the hot water hits.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:53:39 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:55:53 -0800 (PST),

wrote:



Here's the story:

Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building

Apartment on 3rd floor



What street, between what two avenues?



None of the discussion of NY water that I've read has ever brought up

specific location within the city, but I don't see how it could not be

very relevant.



I lived for one year on the 4th floor of 420 Clinton Ave. in Brooklyn,

and for 10 years on the 5th floor of the same six-story building.



I had no water problems on the fourth floor, but did on the fifth, not

exacctly like yours, but might be related. Well, don't get your hopes

up. As I write, my expectation gets lower, so just consider this a

novel, and not as help.



Before you get to the novel, what happens when you flush the toilet

while the shower is running? The building uses flushometers, right?

Not tank toilets? Does it change the temp of the water?





The novel starts he



After about 4 years, the widowed owner, who had probably helped run the

building when her husband was alive, didn't want the burden anymore, or

wanted to move to Florida, and she sold it to a Greek immigrant, a

plumber!



I thought that meant one of two things. We'd get any plumbing problems

solved quickly and well because he was a plumber. OR We'd get plumbing

problems solved last, because he always wanted to work for paying

customers. But as I've said, there is always a 3rd possibility.



The 3rd was that he thought he was a plumber but he was no good at it,

at least he didn't understand plumbing over 4 stories. (nor could he

fix the oil pipe that went to the oil furnace, and it dripped for years,

I think.)



Clinton Ave. goes to the top of Clinton Hill, and it's really a hill so

it's that much higher than a building only a few feet higher than the

river or harbor.



City water pressure is supposed to be able to push the water up to the

5th floor, and if the building is 6 floors, like ours was, there is an

water/air tank in the basement. A water pump forces water into the

bottom of the tank, compressing the air inside, until the pressure is

enough to turn off the water pump. Then the air forces the water to

even to the 5th floor, until the air pressure drops and the water pump

goes on again.



Eventually air in the top of the tank is absorbed by the water in the

bottom, and some other gauge turns on the air pump which runs fof a

while.



Probably because the new owner was confused by all this, he turned off

the air pump completely and let the water pump run constantly. Using I

believe a lot more electricity than needed, and I think respsonsible for

my shower problems. That was, if the mixed water was not TOO hot to

begin with, when someone in the same line and perhaps the same bathroom

within that line flushed the toilet the water then became too cold to

stand under. If we had had tank toilets, refilling the tank would have

taken only a little water at a time, but since it was a flushometer, it

used a lot to flush, and he ddin't know how to maintain pressure. .

The tub was big enough to move, but I was cold already. Eventually I

switched to baths, in my great big 1930 luxury building bathtub, so big

I could float with only 1 square inch of my skin touching the tub.



I found a book in the libary that devoted one page to explaining how it

was supposed to work, complete with a diagram, and I gave him a copy,

but it made no difference.



He wasnt' really a plumber it turned out. He only knew how to install

trash compactors using water pressure to power them. IOW, all he knew

was how to screw pipes together.





Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).



Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).



The sink does not have this problem.



Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?



Doesnt' seem likely. Are these co-ops? If so, anything is possible.

Someone with a co-op even hired me as an electrician, if you can believe

that.



Any other ideas?



Flushing toilets. Maybe someone goes to the toilet a lot, maybe every

10 minutes, (some medical problems can cause this) and that's why he

always does so a minute after you start a shower. Maybe the sound of

running water in your shower makes him want to go to the bathroom.

(Although in my apt. I could never hear water running upstairs, from

anything. )

One place I would start is to determine if this problem happens
all the time or not. If it's related to what someone else has
turned on, etc then you would think it would happen frequently
at say 6 -8AM, probably less frequently during the day, and
happen far less of the time at say 2 - 4AM. If it happens about
the same without regard to time, then it's probably not related
to other water usage. Next I'd ask the neighbors if they have
the same problem. And then if it affects others, I'd make a
joint complaint to the landlord, manager if it's a co-op, etc.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...
On 1/15/2014 8:55 PM, wrote:
Here's the story:
Pre-war 14 story NYC apartment building
Apartment on 3rd floor

Shower has two knobs (hot & cold), two similar knobs below for the bath. Plumbing in the apartment is original (this apt, can't speak for the folks upstairs or downstairs).

Turn on shower (mostly hot, a bit of cold water) and it's fine for a minute or so then becomes COLD. Not cooling off, but COLD. Eventually it gets back to normal but sometimes repeats itself. Not sure if this happens only if the cold is on or if would happen with only the hot water on (that'd be too hot to shower in and it's not my apartment so I haven't had time to experiment).

The sink does not have this problem.

Is it possible that somebody upstairs redid their plumbing and some mixing valve is sending cold water down the hot water pipe?

Any other ideas?

I live in a trailer, in a park. I have some what
the same problem, after a couple seconds. Have
to set the hot faucet, and a couple second later,
turn the faucet open a bit more. I've always
thought it was just the faucet washer expanding
when the hot water hits.

I've always wondered about that myself. Well, not always. Just now I wondered if that girl with a wrench in the picture was really a girl.... I'm hoping so anyway.

Anyway, long story short... this feller has the same idea as you...

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...y-blasting-out