Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

On 11/26/2013 3:17 PM, wrote:
Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until I
moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds


Matt, most capacitors like that are designed to disconnect when the top
bulges like that. It's another safety feature that can prevent a little
explosion. ^_^

TDD

On 11/26/2013 4:17 PM, wrote:
Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

With all those disclaimers. You're an attorney?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/26/2013 04:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

Funny you mention it. I had one fail exactly like that a couple months
ago, same size, brand and everything. Bad batch?




No not a bad batch, just a built-in safety feature.

I often had to replace caps in ferro-resonant industrial battery
chargers and back 35 years ago they'd explode...and worse still they
were the toxic PCB type!

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds
Cool pictures. Thanks for posting. It's stuff like this that makes
usenet worthwhile.
Cheers,
Eric

On 11/26/2013 4:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

Funny you mention it. I had one fail exactly like that a couple months
ago, same size, brand and everything. Bad batch?


Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

TDD

On 11/26/2013 9:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 19:54:11 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on
their HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped
to zero when we started installing surge arresters directly on the
outdoor condensing units. ^_^

This old Trane is at end of life. I believe I will take your advice
on my new one..


The newer units also have a lot of electronic controls that power surges
can damage. I modified a lot of contractor grade AC units with anti
short cycle timers and high and low pressure cutouts to protect the
compressors. Most electronic thermostats have a compressor time delay
designed in which may have to be programmed. I used a lot of the
Square-D and Supco surge arresters because they're of a fairly high
quality. In extreme circumstances, I would drive a 4' ground rod next to
the unit and run a #6 bare copper to the internal ground lug along with
the existing ground conductor. Remember, it's not just the outdoor unit
that needs a surge arrester. The new furnace/air handler units have a
lot of electronics including electronically controlled variable speed
blower motors. All of the new whizzbang modern energy saving electronic
controls are very expensive to replace when a power surge gets by the
tiny little MOV's on the circuit board. ^_^

TDD

On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:17:47 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Hello all!



About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;

replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until

I moved out of that house.



I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some

pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone

recognize a bad cap someday.



http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html



Matt Roberds

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...d=0COAEEKYrMAQ

On 11/26/2013 8:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

TDD

Was that cost effective? How much does a surge
arrester cost, compared to a run cap?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/27/2013 4:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2013 8:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

TDD

Was that cost effective? How much does a surge
arrester cost, compared to a run cap?


My cost for a dual capacitor is probably $14.00, the cost of a rural
service call is at least $100.00, a compressor $800.00. Figure it out. ^_^

TDD

On 11/27/2013 7:09 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/27/2013 4:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Was that cost effective? How much does a surge
arrester cost, compared to a run cap?


My cost for a dual capacitor is probably $14.00, the cost of a rural
service call is at least $100.00, a compressor $800.00. Figure it out. ^_^

TDD

Just have to decide if I want to use pi R squared H, or
E equals MC squared, or E equals IR.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/27/2013 7:09 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/27/2013 4:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2013 8:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

TDD

Was that cost effective? How much does a surge
arrester cost, compared to a run cap?


My cost for a dual capacitor is probably $14.00, the cost of a rural
service call is at least $100.00, a compressor $800.00. Figure it out. ^_^

TDD

Looking back, I see that you didn't answer my question.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/27/2013 6:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/27/2013 7:09 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/27/2013 4:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2013 8:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor
condensing
units. ^_^

TDD

Was that cost effective? How much does a surge
arrester cost, compared to a run cap?


My cost for a dual capacitor is probably $14.00, the cost of a rural
service call is at least $100.00, a compressor $800.00. Figure it out.
^_^

TDD

Looking back, I see that you didn't answer my question.


Geez! A hard wired Supco SCM150 Surge Protector is around $40.00. It
will prevent multiple service calls and thousands of dollars in
damages. Dual start/run capacitor $16.00. What does down time cost? I
know an ass who refuses to install surge arresters because he want's
gear to be damaged by lightning and power surges. He can't understand
that one big storm will knock out a lot of equipment when he's tied up
on a job on the other side of the state and can't get to those folks
thus losing those customers to someone else. ^_^

TDD

On 11/27/2013 9:17 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/27/2013 6:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Looking back, I see that you didn't answer my question.


Geez! A hard wired Supco SCM150 Surge Protector is around $40.00. It
will prevent multiple service calls and thousands of dollars in
damages. Dual start/run capacitor $16.00. What does down time cost? I
know an ass who refuses to install surge arresters because he want's
gear to be damaged by lightning and power surges. He can't understand
that one big storm will knock out a lot of equipment when he's tied up
on a job on the other side of the state and can't get to those folks
thus losing those customers to someone else. ^_^

TDD

Thanks, that is a lot more clear, now.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 11/26/2013 4:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

Funny you mention it. I had one fail exactly like that a couple months
ago, same size, brand and everything. Bad batch?


Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

Was GB from NC near Ashville?

On 11/27/2013 9:26 AM, NotMe wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 11/26/2013 4:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

Funny you mention it. I had one fail exactly like that a couple months
ago, same size, brand and everything. Bad batch?


Me and my late friend GB did a lot of work for rural customers on their
HVAC units and the failure rate for the capacitors dropped to zero when
we started installing surge arresters directly on the outdoor condensing
units. ^_^

Was GB from NC near Ashville?



Naaa, right here in Alabamastan. ^_^

TDD

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:17:47 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds

Mine failed this fall, but it didn't bulge like that. A multi meter helped
me diagnose the problem.

--
So many worlds, so much to do,
So little done, such things to be. --Alfred Lord Tennyson


11/30/2013 12:29:24 AM

Stormin Mormon wrote:
With all those disclaimers. You're an attorney?

No, I'm a mild-mannered computer programmer. I'm just paranoid. I
would prefer not to be sued if someone of modest ability reads that
page, tries to repair their own air conditioner, and zaps themselves.

Matt Roberds

wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds
How BORING! Wish I had a picture of the one that blew on our
ANCIENT Bryant condensing unit. It blew the cap halfway
apart, I think there was a soldered seam down the side of an
oval unit, and it opened it right up. It took some care to not
get cut on the edges while replacing it.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:

Hello all!

About eight years ago, the run cap in my outdoor A/C unit failed;
replacing it made it work fine for at least a few more years, until
I moved out of that house.

I found the dead cap while cleaning some stuff up, so I took some
pictures of it before tossing it. Maybe these will help someone
recognize a bad cap someday.

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

Matt Roberds
How BORING! Wish I had a picture of the one that blew on our
ANCIENT Bryant condensing unit. It blew the cap halfway
apart, I think there was a soldered seam down the side of an
oval unit, and it opened it right up. It took some care to not
get cut on the edges while replacing it.

Jon

Hi,
I think that was BIG discovery for the OP.

Tony Hwang wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

How BORING!

When they are happening near me, I *like* boring failures. Somebody
spent a lot of time and effort making sure that failures would be
boring, and it paid off.

I think that was BIG discovery for the OP.

Not *BIG*, but somewhat of a relief. When your A/C quits in the
middle of the summer in Oklahoma, large numbers preceded by '$' flash
before your eyes. Finding out it was just the cap made me happy. I
think I paid about $25 or $30 for the replacement. (Yes, people that
buy them a dozen at a time pay less than that, but for me buying one
cap one time, I was happy with it.)

When I saw the cap, I was pretty sure it wasn't supposed to be bulged
out on top like that, but all I could find online was a tiny, low-
resolution picture of a bad one; I went ahead and replaced it and the
A/C worked again. When I found the bad one again a couple of weeks ago,
I figured its only remaining value was as an example, which is why I
posted the pictures.

Matt Roberds

On 12/11/2013 6:10 AM, wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:

http://www.birdbird.org/electronics/...c-run-cap.html

How BORING!

When they are happening near me, I *like* boring failures. Somebody
spent a lot of time and effort making sure that failures would be
boring, and it paid off.

I think that was BIG discovery for the OP.

Not *BIG*, but somewhat of a relief. When your A/C quits in the
middle of the summer in Oklahoma, large numbers preceded by '$' flash
before your eyes. Finding out it was just the cap made me happy. I
think I paid about $25 or $30 for the replacement. (Yes, people that
buy them a dozen at a time pay less than that, but for me buying one
cap one time, I was happy with it.)

When I saw the cap, I was pretty sure it wasn't supposed to be bulged
out on top like that, but all I could find online was a tiny, low-
resolution picture of a bad one; I went ahead and replaced it and the
A/C worked again. When I found the bad one again a couple of weeks ago,
I figured its only remaining value was as an example, which is why I
posted the pictures.

Matt Roberds


Me and my late friend with whom I did a lot of residential HVAC work,
replaced more capacitors for customers living out in rural areas. When
we installed electrical surge arresters right on the metal housing of
the outdoor unit, we had no more capacitor failures. On thing that helps
a lot is to replace a 370 volt rated capacitor with one rated 440 volts. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
Me and my late friend with whom I did a lot of residential HVAC work,
replaced more capacitors for customers living out in rural areas. When
we installed electrical surge arresters right on the metal housing of
the outdoor unit, we had no more capacitor failures.

I don't live in a rural area, but I do have a 2009 Trane high-efficiency
furnace and A/C that have a *lot* of circuit boards in them. Do you
have any experience that surge protectors on the equipment help prevent
board replacements and other failures "in town"? $40 for the Supco
SCM150 you mentioned, or for a Square D SDSA1175, seems like cheap
insurance to me.

On thing that helps a lot is to replace a 370 volt rated capacitor
with one rated 440 volts.

On the replacement I did, both the new and old were rated at 440 V.

Thanks!

Matt Roberds

On 12/12/2013 2:03 AM, wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Me and my late friend with whom I did a lot of residential HVAC
work, replaced more capacitors for customers living out in rural
areas. When we installed electrical surge arresters right on the
metal housing of the outdoor unit, we had no more capacitor
failures.

I don't live in a rural area, but I do have a 2009 Trane
high-efficiency furnace and A/C that have a *lot* of circuit boards
in them. Do you have any experience that surge protectors on the
equipment help prevent board replacements and other failures "in
town"? $40 for the Supco SCM150 you mentioned, or for a Square D
SDSA1175, seems like cheap insurance to me.

On thing that helps a lot is to replace a 370 volt rated capacitor
with one rated 440 volts.

On the replacement I did, both the new and old were rated at 440 V.

Thanks!

Matt Roberds


To get all that super duper whizzbang high efficiency tree hugging
equipment that won't murder cute little ozones requires some serious
microprocessor controls. You know the result. Built in surge arresting
technology has improved a lot over the years but the cost/benefit over
profit for the manufacturers in the long run is what keeps the stuff
affordable. $25 per unit spread over millions of units is a lot of money
that doesn't go to evil rich stockholders. Anyway, I've seen power
surges that are not direct lightning strikes vaporize a lot of properly
installed and maintained equipment that would still be functioning if a
little more money had been spent on power surge protection. I use surge
arresters on everything I have and I would definitely spend a few
hundred dollars to protect a $15,000 system in my home. Start where the
power comes into your home. The power company in this state will lease,
for a few dollars a month to a customer, a surge arrester that plugs in
between the power meter and meter socket with a guarantee that your
major items are protected with a kind of insurance policy. The more
power surge arresters, up to a point, between your main source of power
and individual piece of equipment will provide the best protection. The
government wonks charged with protecting and hardening a facility's
power system against little things like lightning strikes and the EMP
from a nuclear detonation, have found that a cascade of surge protection
starting at the power source and individual pieces of equipment gives
the best protection. Of course, unless you're expecting a nuclear attack
from the kid down the street, you don't have to take such drastic
measures. Check with your power company to see what's available then a
hard wired surge arrester at your breaker panel and on each expensive
hunk of gear should give you the best protection. Just don't go crazy
with it. Oh yea, don't forget your phone, internet and cable TV wiring. ^_^

http://www.metertreater.com/Utility_Products.html

TDD