Picture a shed with 3/8€� SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor fixture
mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed directly to the
siding through the holes that would normally be used to mount it to an
electrical box.

Instead of using an old work octogon box, the owner screwed a square piece
of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed and, after punching out the center
hole in the back of an octagon box, he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6
with the large open side facing into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies
support for the screws that hold the fixture to the outside wall.)

He then drilled a 1/2" hole through the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires
from the fixture through the hole into the box. The Romex for the power is
attached to the octagon box with a standard Romex connector.

So basically the fixture wires go through about an inch of wood before they
enter the back of the electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then
the hole in the box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge
of the metal hole.

Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?

On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:14:16 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Picture a shed with 3/8” SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor fixture mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed directly to the siding through the holes that would normally be used to mount it to an electrical box. Instead of using an old work octogon box, the owner screwed a square piece of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed and, after punching out the center hole in the back of an octagon box, he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6 with the large open side facing into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies support for the screws that hold the fixture to the outside wall.) He then drilled a 1/2" hole through the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires from the fixture through the hole into the box. The Romex for the power is attached to the octagon box with a standard Romex connector. So basically the fixture wires go through about an inch of wood before they enter the back of the electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then the hole in the box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge of the metal hole. Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be mounted directly to the electrical box?

Did he pass the two or 3 (if grounded)individual wires thru the hole in the wood, or did he use romex from the fixture back to the box? If individual wires, I doubt that it meets any code. If he somehow put romex into the fixture itself, and then ran the romex thru the hole in the wood, it might possibly be ok. But, the fixture is meant to mount over a metal box and not over a slab of wood, so AI doubt that even with romex it would pass an actual inspection.

Now if he was to mount the outside unit over a metal round (dummy) plate and pass the romex through a hole in the middle of the plate, using a romex connector, and then route the romex through the wood into another romex connector and the box on the inside, that might very well pass code inspection.

" wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:14:16 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Picture a shed with 3/8€� SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor
fixture mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed
directly to the siding through the holes that would normally be used to
mount it to an electrical box. Instead of using an old work octogon box,
the owner screwed a square piece of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed
and, after punching out the center hole in the back of an octagon box,
he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6 with the large open side facing
into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies support for the screws that hold
the fixture to the outside wall.) He then drilled a 1/2" hole through
the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires from the fixture through the
hole into the box. The Romex for the power is attached to the octagon
box with a standard Romex connector. So basically the fixture wires go
through about an inch of wood before they enter the back of the
electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then the hole in the
box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge of the metal
hole. Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture
be mounted directly to the electrical box?

Did he pass the two or 3 (if grounded)individual wires thru the hole in
the wood, or did he use romex from the fixture back to the box? If
individual wires, I doubt that it meets any code. If he somehow put
romex into the fixture itself, and then ran the romex thru the hole in
the wood, it might possibly be ok. But, the fixture is meant to mount
over a metal box and not over a slab of wood, so AI doubt that even with
romex it would pass an actual inspection.

Now if he was to mount the outside unit over a metal round (dummy) plate
and pass the romex through a hole in the middle of the plate, using a
romex connector, and then route the romex through the wood into another
romex connector and the box on the inside, that might very well pass code inspection.

It's the 3 individual fixture wires that pass through the side of the shed
and 1x6.

On 11/6/13 9:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Picture a shed with 3/8€� SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor fixture
mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed directly to the
siding through the holes that would normally be used to mount it to an
electrical box.

Instead of using an old work octogon box, the owner screwed a square piece
of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed and, after punching out the center
hole in the back of an octagon box, he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6
with the large open side facing into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies
support for the screws that hold the fixture to the outside wall.)

He then drilled a 1/2" hole through the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires
from the fixture through the hole into the box. The Romex for the power is
attached to the octagon box with a standard Romex connector.

So basically the fixture wires go through about an inch of wood before they
enter the back of the electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then
the hole in the box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge
of the metal hole.

Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?

The kicker might be that it isn't installed per the manufacturer's
instructions if the fixture isn't mounted directly to the box.

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 03:14:16 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Picture a shed with 3/8” SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor fixture
mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed directly to the
siding through the holes that would normally be used to mount it to an
electrical box.

Instead of using an old work octogon box, the owner screwed a square piece
of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed and, after punching out the center
hole in the back of an octagon box, he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6
with the large open side facing into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies
support for the screws that hold the fixture to the outside wall.)

He then drilled a 1/2" hole through the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires
from the fixture through the hole into the box. The Romex for the power is
attached to the octagon box with a standard Romex connector.

So basically the fixture wires go through about an inch of wood before they
enter the back of the electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then
the hole in the box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge
of the metal hole.

Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?

You can buy octogon (actually round) boxes that are only about 5/8 inch
deep. Screw one of them to the outside of the shed, run romex thru the
wall into that box, and most fixtures should cover that box. The
fixture's screws will have to be cut shorter but that's no problem.
This would be a legal installation as long as the box is grounded
properly.

Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?


No

314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.
In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum,
plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a
flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front
edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will
not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.).

In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface
material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders
shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.


*I agree. The installer could have used an Arlington siding box on the
surface of the siding.

wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 03:14:16 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?


No

314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.
In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum,
plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a
flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front
edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will
not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.).

In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface
material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders
shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.

Thanks for the code cite, but I'm not sure if that section fits this
situation exactly.

In this case the box is acting as a junction box, completely inside the
shed. The "flush-type cover or faceplate" faces inward, so it's not an
issue of the front of the box being set back.

What if a short piece of Schedule 40 conduit was inserted into the hole
that goes through the wall and wood to act as a sleeve. Would eliminating
the "wires through wood" situation solve the issue?

The conduit would have to be secured with connectors at each end, otherwise there is/are rough edge(s) exposed at both ends that could abrade the insulation on the wires.

On 11/7/2013 7:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 03:14:16 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?


No

314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.
In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum,
plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a
flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front
edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will
not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.).

In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface
material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders
shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.

Thanks for the code cite, but I'm not sure if that section fits this
situation exactly.

In this case the box is acting as a junction box, completely inside the
shed. The "flush-type cover or faceplate" faces inward, so it's not an
issue of the front of the box being set back.

What if a short piece of Schedule 40 conduit was inserted into the hole
that goes through the wall and wood to act as a sleeve. Would eliminating
the "wires through wood" situation solve the issue?

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have
to be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a
weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

bud-- wrote:

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?

On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:14:16 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Picture a shed with 3/8” SmartSide siding. Picture a motion sensor fixture

mounted on the outside of the shed. The fixture is screwed directly to the

siding through the holes that would normally be used to mount it to an

electrical box.



Instead of using an old work octogon box, the owner screwed a square piece

of 1x6 to the inside wall of the shed and, after punching out the center

hole in the back of an octagon box, he mounted the octagon box to the 1x6

with the large open side facing into the shed. (The 1x6 also supplies

support for the screws that hold the fixture to the outside wall.)



He then drilled a 1/2" hole through the 1x6 and siding and passed the wires

from the fixture through the hole into the box. The Romex for the power is

attached to the octagon box with a standard Romex connector.



So basically the fixture wires go through about an inch of wood before they

enter the back of the electrical box. The hole in the wood is smaller then

the hole in the box, so there's no chance of the wires contacting the edge

of the metal hole.



Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be

mounted directly to the electrical box?

Nope Fire hazard. Cut a bigger hole and turn the box around. Add strain relief.

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a
weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?


*Yes he could.

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 13:04:33 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 03:14:16 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



Is it OK to pass the wires through the wood or should the fixture be
mounted directly to the electrical box?


No

314.20 In Wall or Ceiling.
In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum,
plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a
flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front
edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will
not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.).

In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface
material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders
shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.

Thanks for the code cite, but I'm not sure if that section fits this
situation exactly.

In this case the box is acting as a junction box, completely inside the
shed. The "flush-type cover or faceplate" faces inward, so it's not an
issue of the front of the box being set back.

What if a short piece of Schedule 40 conduit was inserted into the hole
that goes through the wall and wood to act as a sleeve. Would eliminating
the "wires through wood" situation solve the issue?
No. The lighting device is NOT approved for mounting on flammable
surfave. It is only approved for mounting to an electrical box. As
noted before, of mounted to a blank cover box (between the lamp and
the siding) with a fixture nipple feeding through the wall into the
box, it MAY sneak past inspection.

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

bud-- wrote:

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?
Definitely the preferred method.

wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

bud-- wrote:

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?
Definitely the preferred method.

I guess I'll lend him my Harbor Freight Variable Speed Multi-Function tool
to make it easy to cut the hole. :-)

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

bud-- wrote:

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a
weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?

That is how the electrical contractor did on our new house to mount a auto
sensing light. That passed inspection...WW

DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

bud-- wrote:

The wires from the fixture are not a recognized wiring method and have to
be connected to a recognized wiring method in a box.

Possibilities that come to mind:

A surface mount box from Arlington - as in John's post (note 3 pages)
http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/si...unting-blocks/

A shallow surface mounted box as in Caulking's post. Light canopy covers
the box. (but probably needs to be weather tight, which wouldn't work)

The box above with wood around it to flatten the siding and provide a weather seal.

A surface mounted weatherproof round box.

This is likely a damp or wet location which has to be taken into account.

Couldn't he just cut a bigger hole in the shed siding and use an old work
octagon box? Wouldn't a box with the tabs end up being flush with the face
of the siding and allow the fixture to be attached directly to the box?
Definitely the preferred method.

I guess I'll lend him my Harbor Freight Variable Speed Multi-Function tool
to make it easy to cut the hole. :-)

It's all good now!

We installed a old work box, added a fixture strap, and mounted the fixture
to the strap as per the instructions.

Thanks for help and suggestions.