An electrician recently added a single width plastic electrical box,
the kind that (normally) has two nails for securing to stud, in my
attic crawl space. The box is being used as a junction box for new
wiring to a bathroom exhaust fan that is on a GFCI circuit branch.

1. Is it legal per NEC to add any junction box in an attic crawl space
?
Access is only via bedroom closet.

2. Is it legal per NEC to have the plastic electrical box unsecured to
a joist/stud?
The box sits along side a ceiling joist but is not anchored.
For some unknown reason, the electician decided to use a box that did
not include the nails.

3. If this is illegal per NEC, WHY ? What are the dangers, if any?


Thanks.

~ Vince ~
Long Island, NY, USA

I think (1) could go either way, but (2) I know is a no-no.
Don't have the NEC in front of me, but an unsecured box? No way!

-Dave

"Vince" wrote in message
...

An electrician recently added a single width plastic electrical box,
the kind that (normally) has two nails for securing to stud, in my
attic crawl space. The box is being used as a junction box for new
wiring to a bathroom exhaust fan that is on a GFCI circuit branch.

1. Is it legal per NEC to add any junction box in an attic crawl space
?
Access is only via bedroom closet.

2. Is it legal per NEC to have the plastic electrical box unsecured to
a joist/stud?
The box sits along side a ceiling joist but is not anchored.
For some unknown reason, the electician decided to use a box that did
not include the nails.

3. If this is illegal per NEC, WHY ? What are the dangers, if any?


Thanks.

1. as long as the box is accessible with out removing finishes your fine.

2. All electrical boxes are to be attached to the structure.

3. danger, minimumal this is not a traffic area and likely the box will lay
there until you sell the place and/or forget about it.

As others have said, probably not a huge issue.

However, it shows sloppiness toward the trade, as well as a lack of
respect for the NEC, and you as a customer, which makes me wonder if
any other 'shortcuts' were taken elsewhere. I mean - how hard is it to
get the proper material and install it correctly?

Is there a cover on the box? Are the cables going into the unsecured
box secured with staples within 4" of the box?

When you say 'electrician' - are you talking about a licensed and
insured individual/company? Did you see his license?

If not, all bets are off, and you got what you paid for.

If so, even though he/she will be ****ed, I'd ask them why they did
what they did, and come out and bring it up to code (nicely).

That's what you paid for, and if it concerned you enough to post here,
then it's probably something that irritates you enough that you want it
corrected.

I say call them back and make them do it right.

My comments are inbetwween yours, below:
On 25 Oct 2005 10:14:37 -0700, "Matt" wrote:

As others have said, probably not a huge issue.

However, it shows sloppiness toward the trade, as well as a lack of
respect for the NEC, and you as a customer, which makes me wonder if
any other 'shortcuts' were taken elsewhere. I mean - how hard is it to
get the proper material and install it correctly?

Yeah, this guy avoided perhaps $2.60 plus cost for a couple of
U-nails.

Is there a cover on the box? Are the cables going into the unsecured
box secured with staples within 4" of the box?

The box is covered, but the wires are not secured.

When you say 'electrician' - are you talking about a licensed and
insured individual/company? Did you see his license?

I did not see his license, but the GC is licensed by the County as a
Home Improvement contractor. I specifically asked the County if HI
contractors are obligated to use a "licensed" electrician; they said
"of course".

If not, all bets are off, and you got what you paid for.

If so, even though he/she will be ****ed, I'd ask them why they did
what they did, and come out and bring it up to code (nicely).


I have other remaining issues with the GC that did the bathroom
gutting and remodelling. This issue just adds fuel to the burning
fire.

That's what you paid for, and if it concerned you enough to post here,
then it's probably something that irritates you enough that you want it
corrected.


I say call them back and make them do it right.

When the electrician laid in the rough wiring, all that I saw was 14
gauge wire. The job included adding a GFCI duplex near the sink, and
I know that 14 ga is not suitable for a 20 A circuit. When I
challenged the GC on this, with the electrician standingby, the
electrician claimed that he did not have the 12 gauge wire on his
truck when he did the rough wiring. So, this is an electrician that
comes to a job site w/o the required material !

The end result was to add a 20 A circuit breaker and 12 gauge wire for
the duplex outlet (enough spare room remains at the breaker box, so I
did not complain). I was expecting a single home run, 20 A circuit for
the duplex outlet, the newly added Panasonic 90 FI exhaust fan, that
includes two 13 W flourescent and a 4 W night light, the four globe
fixture (240 W total), and a new hall duplex outlet (intended for a
vacuum cleaner, etc.). A separate 15 A circuit, via a GFCI device
mounted in a box handles all but the sink's GFCI duplex.

Vince -

Did they pull an electrical permit? I'm guessing no, based on the added
details.

It doesn't sound to me like a licensed electrician was ever anywhere
near your property, and the fact that you found the 14 ga. wire is
alarming; as from what you have said I'm guessing it's very likely a
20A breaker would have ended up on the 14 ga. wire.

I'd call out an electrical inspector. It's going to get your GC in
plenty of hot water, and things may get very ugly.

Bottom line there is a right way and a wrong way for things to be done,
it's the GC's responsibility to make sure things are done right by
qualified people - IMO he/she is asleep at the switch (no pun
intended).

The whole point of hiring a GC is to make sure problems don't happen. I
strongly encourage you to hold him responsible, even if it ends up in
court.


"The end result was to add a 20 A circuit breaker and 12 gauge wire for

the duplex outlet (enough spare room remains at the breaker box, so I
did not complain). I was expecting a single home run, 20 A circuit for
the duplex outlet, the newly added Panasonic 90 FI exhaust fan, that
includes two 13 W flourescent and a 4 W night light, the four globe
fixture (240 W total), and a new hall duplex outlet (intended for a
vacuum cleaner, etc.). A separate 15 A circuit, via a GFCI device
mounted in a box handles all but the sink's GFCI duplex. "

I have several digital photos that show the unsecured electrical box
as well as the loose wires. Or, I will be unloading my bedroom closet
to allow an inspector to visit.



On 25 Oct 2005 15:26:42 -0700, "Matt" wrote:

Vince -

Did they pull an electrical permit? I'm guessing no, based on the added
details.

It doesn't sound to me like a licensed electrician was ever anywhere
near your property, and the fact that you found the 14 ga. wire is
alarming; as from what you have said I'm guessing it's very likely a
20A breaker would have ended up on the 14 ga. wire.

I'd call out an electrical inspector. It's going to get your GC in
plenty of hot water, and things may get very ugly.

Bottom line there is a right way and a wrong way for things to be done,
it's the GC's responsibility to make sure things are done right by
qualified people - IMO he/she is asleep at the switch (no pun
intended).

The whole point of hiring a GC is to make sure problems don't happen. I
strongly encourage you to hold him responsible, even if it ends up in
court.


"The end result was to add a 20 A circuit breaker and 12 gauge wire for

the duplex outlet (enough spare room remains at the breaker box, so I
did not complain). I was expecting a single home run, 20 A circuit for
the duplex outlet, the newly added Panasonic 90 FI exhaust fan, that
includes two 13 W flourescent and a 4 W night light, the four globe
fixture (240 W total), and a new hall duplex outlet (intended for a
vacuum cleaner, etc.). A separate 15 A circuit, via a GFCI device
mounted in a box handles all but the sink's GFCI duplex. "

replying to SQLit, allen hawkins wrote:
In a perfect world yes, If you have a house fire the investigator can and will
deny your claim for faulty electrical work like that.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ant-44276-.htm

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 8:44:05 AM UTC-5, allen hawkins wrote:
replying to SQLit, allen hawkins wrote:
In a perfect world yes, If you have a house fire the investigator can and will
deny your claim for faulty electrical work like that.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ant-44276-.htm

IDK what a perfect world is, but show us any examples where an insurance
claim like that has been denied. For one thing, the homeowner did nothing
wrong, he hired an electrician. No insurance company is going to deny a
claim where you used a tradesman to do a job and they screwed something up.
They are the expert, not the homeowner. Now, if the insurance company feels
they have a case against the electrician, then they may choose to go after
him to try to collect, but they will pay the homeowner the claim regardless.

Second, the fire would have to be shown to have resulted from the defective
work for it to even matter. The box, as described, sounds unlikely to
be the source of a fire.