My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical
thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.

I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by the
furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the old wire
and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get is 8-wire. Is
it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The 8-wire will be harder
to pull/fish.

What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical
thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.

I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?
Hi,
You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

On Monday, September 9, 2013 9:14:34 PM UTC-5, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries. I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The 8-wire will be harder to pull/fish. What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

5-wire should be ok, but I like the wireless idea even better.

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:58 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

bob wrote:
I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

The communication between units is computerized. It does not use a lot of
wires. Five will be enough. Shielded could be a bonus in an electrically
noisy environment.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.




This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the old wire

and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get is 8-wire. Is

it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The 8-wire will be harder

to pull/fish.



What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

Typical is:

heat
cool
fan
common

That's 4.

Add in your additional power wire for the thermostat,
and you're at 5.

next level of complexity is two stage heat and/or cool
which would add one more wire for each stage. So
two stage heat, two stage cool, which is common,
would be 7 wires.

Then some thermostats can control a humidifier, which
I presume adds an additional wire. That would give you
8.

If you're re-wiring, I don't see pulling 8 wire being
much different than 5, either in cost or difficulty.

On 9/9/2013 9:14 PM, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical
thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.

I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

Regular heat pump systems. The thermostat cable installed for a heat
pump may actually have 9 wires in the sheath. Me and GB always ran a
cable containing more wires than immediately needed. There are adapters
available for multiplexing a few thermostat wires into more connections
for updated thermostats. The cost of the adapters is cheaper than the
cost of labor needed to run a new cable. ^_^

TDD

Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:58 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

bob wrote:
I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

The communication between units is computerized. It does not use a lot of
wires. Five will be enough. Shielded could be a bonus in an electrically
noisy environment.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Hi,
That's what I got Carrier IAQ system. (Infinity) I made it work.
When they installed the system, control part, I did.

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:14:34 -0700, bob wrote:

My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical
thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.

I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

If me, I'd go for the 8 wire and buy more thermostats from Braeburn. They
were as easy to work with as if they were the corner hardware store!

Can you use the existing wire to pull the new wire? I couldn't some idiot
stapled the old wire to the studs!

On 09/10/2013 10:55 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:14:34 -0700, bob wrote:

My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a
mechanical thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.

I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

What kind of furnace uses 8-wires anyway?

If me, I'd go for the 8 wire and buy more thermostats from Braeburn.
They were as easy to work with as if they were the corner hardware store!

Can you use the existing wire to pull the new wire? I couldn't some
idiot stapled the old wire to the studs!

Well, that's what you're supposed to do in new construction; in retrofit
work you are allowed to not staple it if you aren't opening up the
wall... but if you have access to the underside of the floor from the
basement usually you can just drill a hole through the plate, or use the
old one, and drop the wire from the hole behind the thermostat with only
a little fiddling around.

Once I got very very lucky and a sharp jerk on a piece of Romex was able
to pop the staples out of the studs enough that I could pull it out and
a new piece in behind it (was replacing an ancient 14/2 with a new
14/2WG and replacing one run in an existing wall was all that was
required to properly ground a whole mess of work.) Didn't hurt that the
new Romex was physically smaller than the old cloth covered stuff; that
won't be true when replacing a 3-conductor thermostat wire with a 5 or
8-conductor one.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 09/10/2013 12:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.

Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.
Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire
from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.

Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.

I've had good luck with them myself. Only complaint being the latest
one I purchased - which appeared to be the updated version of the same
on that I had in my last house - only runs off batteries, the directions
tell you not to connect the 24VAC wire from the furnace controller. Now
it's been in use for several months now with no apparent issues and no
battery changes, but just on principle I would prefer that the batteries
be for backup only as they were on my old thermostat. Also
reprogramming after a battery change is a pain in the keister (it's a
5/2 programmable deal, part of the reason I got it. The other being
that it has an "Auto" mode for the few times a year that you may need to
switch from heating to cooling or vice versa in the same day.)

All in all, if I'd known that it didn't take the 24VAC input, I'd have
purchased a different model. (ordered it online as it was $20-something
vs. $60-something locally.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.

Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.
Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire
from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.

Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.

Nate Nagel wrote:
On 09/10/2013 12:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.

Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.
Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire
from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.

Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.

I've had good luck with them myself. Only complaint being the latest
one I purchased - which appeared to be the updated version of the same
on that I had in my last house - only runs off batteries, the directions
tell you not to connect the 24VAC wire from the furnace controller. Now
it's been in use for several months now with no apparent issues and no
battery changes, but just on principle I would prefer that the batteries
be for backup only as they were on my old thermostat. Also
reprogramming after a battery change is a pain in the keister (it's a
5/2 programmable deal, part of the reason I got it. The other being
that it has an "Auto" mode for the few times a year that you may need to
switch from heating to cooling or vice versa in the same day.)

All in all, if I'd known that it didn't tI always liked 7 day programmableake the 24VAC input, I'd have
purchased a different model. (ordered it online as it was $20-something
vs. $60-something locally.)

nate

Hi,
If you must, there maybe a unused battery compartment in that 'stat.
Jury rig to put in rechargeable batteries in there and build a small
charger/regulator on a breadboard and hang it behind 'stat and drive it
with 24V AC coming from the furnace. I'll be 73 next month. My brain
still works pretty good but little slow. Always looking for some thing
to do or I still play my euphonium driving family crazy(just better half
now), LOL! I never used 5-2 programmable one.

On 09/10/2013 12:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 09/10/2013 12:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a
mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.

Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.
Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire
from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.

Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.

I've had good luck with them myself. Only complaint being the latest
one I purchased - which appeared to be the updated version of the same
on that I had in my last house - only runs off batteries, the directions
tell you not to connect the 24VAC wire from the furnace controller. Now
it's been in use for several months now with no apparent issues and no
battery changes, but just on principle I would prefer that the batteries
be for backup only as they were on my old thermostat. Also
reprogramming after a battery change is a pain in the keister (it's a
5/2 programmable deal, part of the reason I got it. The other being
that it has an "Auto" mode for the few times a year that you may need to
switch from heating to cooling or vice versa in the same day.)

All in all, if I'd known that it didn't tI always liked 7 day
programmableake the 24VAC input, I'd have
purchased a different model. (ordered it online as it was $20-something
vs. $60-something locally.)

nate

Hi,
If you must, there maybe a unused battery compartment in that 'stat.
Jury rig to put in rechargeable batteries in there and build a small
charger/regulator on a breadboard and hang it behind 'stat and drive it
with 24V AC coming from the furnace. I'll be 73 next month. My brain
still works pretty good but little slow. Always looking for some thing
to do or I still play my euphonium driving family crazy(just better half
now), LOL! I never used 5-2 programmable one.

That would actually be a great idea, if I didn't have 20 more important
projects to do as well. That's how I would ideally like to have the
thing work, have the power actually charge up rechargeable cells which
kick in only when AC power goes out for a true zero-maintenance (until
the cells actually die 10 years or so down the road) system.

I'm assuming you could just maintain a constant voltage on the cells,
that way you could piggyback right on the terminals of the cells and
make a crappy little power supply to keep them trickle charged. It
wouldn't actually power them up if they were run down, or at least not
quickly, but it'd be cheap 'n' sleazy.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:19:21 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 09/10/2013 12:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 09/10/2013 12:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

wrote:

On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:

My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a

mechanical



thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.







I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by

the



furnace.



Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will

operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of

the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,

which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with

either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:



1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.

With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.



Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.



2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having

dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some

thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so

to prevent freezing.



Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.

Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire

from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.



Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.



I've had good luck with them myself. Only complaint being the latest

one I purchased - which appeared to be the updated version of the same

on that I had in my last house - only runs off batteries, the directions

tell you not to connect the 24VAC wire from the furnace controller. Now

it's been in use for several months now with no apparent issues and no

battery changes, but just on principle I would prefer that the batteries

be for backup only as they were on my old thermostat. Also

reprogramming after a battery change is a pain in the keister (it's a

5/2 programmable deal, part of the reason I got it. The other being

that it has an "Auto" mode for the few times a year that you may need to

switch from heating to cooling or vice versa in the same day.)



All in all, if I'd known that it didn't tI always liked 7 day

programmableake the 24VAC input, I'd have

purchased a different model. (ordered it online as it was $20-something

vs. $60-something locally.)



nate



Hi,

If you must, there maybe a unused battery compartment in that 'stat.

Jury rig to put in rechargeable batteries in there and build a small

charger/regulator on a breadboard and hang it behind 'stat and drive it

with 24V AC coming from the furnace. I'll be 73 next month. My brain

still works pretty good but little slow. Always looking for some thing

to do or I still play my euphonium driving family crazy(just better half

now), LOL! I never used 5-2 programmable one.



That would actually be a great idea, if I didn't have 20 more important

projects to do as well. That's how I would ideally like to have the

thing work, have the power actually charge up rechargeable cells which

kick in only when AC power goes out for a true zero-maintenance (until

the cells actually die 10 years or so down the road) system.



I'm assuming you could just maintain a constant voltage on the cells,

that way you could piggyback right on the terminals of the cells and

make a crappy little power supply to keep them trickle charged. It

wouldn't actually power them up if they were run down, or at least not

quickly, but it'd be cheap 'n' sleazy.



nate

Putting the new thermostat you don't like up on Ebay and
getting one that runs off system power sounds like a much
easier and simpler idea.

Nate Nagel wr
Hi,
If you must, there maybe a unused battery compartment in that 'stat.
Jury rig to put in rechargeable batteries in there and build a small
charger/regulator on a breadboard and hang it behind 'stat and drive it
with 24V AC coming from the furnace. I'll be 73 next month. My brain
still works pretty good but little slow. Always looking for some thing
to do or I still play my euphonium driving family crazy(just better half
now), LOL! I never used 5-2 programmable one.

That would actually be a great idea, if I didn't have 20 more important
projects to do as well. That's how I would ideally like to have the
thing work, have the power actually charge up rechargeable cells which
kick in only when AC power goes out for a true zero-maintenance (until
the cells actually die 10 years or so down the road) system.

I'm assuming you could just maintain a constant voltage on the cells,
that way you could piggyback right on the terminals of the cells and
make a crappy little power supply to keep them trickle charged. It
wouldn't actually power them up if they were run down, or at least not
quickly, but it'd be cheap 'n' sleazy.

nate


Hi,
There are all kinda ASIC for the purpose, it is not that hard to do.
I have two weather stations, one at home(Davis, which is good stuff),
one out at cabin El Cheapo Chinese knock off with 2 AA cells. I
converted this one to rechargeable Ni-Cads and used a piece of solar
cell from garden light to charge them. It is going into 3rd winter now
since, no trouble at all.
Davis one is on solar charger as it came which is connected to NOAA grid
on the 'net.

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:58 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

bob wrote:
I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

The communication between units is computerized. It does not use a lot of
wires. Five will be enough. Shielded could be a bonus in an electrically
noisy environment.

A shield is superfluous. Five may not be enough, depending on the
system. I believe mine has 8 (not all are used, currently).

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:02:20 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:58 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

bob wrote:
I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

The communication between units is computerized. It does not use a lot of
wires. Five will be enough. Shielded could be a bonus in an electrically
noisy environment.

A shield is superfluous. Five may not be enough, depending on the
system. I believe mine has 8 (not all are used, currently).

Hi,
If number of wire is not enough you can use multiplexer(s) which make
one wire acts like two for an example. Different signals time sharing
one wire. Advantage of digital circuitry.

If I'm designing the HVAC unit and thermostat, sure. If I'm buying
one off the shelf (infinitely more likely), not so much.

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:37:58 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

bob wrote:
I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the furnace. This requires more wires. I'm thinking of pulling out the
old wire and put in new thermostat wire. I think the maximum I can get
is 8-wire. Is it advisable to do this or is 5-wire sufficient? The
8-wire will be harder to pull/fish.

You'll have spare wires then. If you don't use a/c, 4 wire is needed.
Or forget the wire all together and go wireless. I did that and we can
move thermostat to any spot in the house.

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

The communication between units is computerized. It does not use a lot of
wires. Five will be enough. Shielded could be a bonus in an electrically
noisy environment.

A shield is superfluous. Five may not be enough, depending on the
system. I believe mine has 8 (not all are used, currently).

Hi,
If number of wire is not enough you can use multiplexer(s) which make
one wire acts like two for an example. Different signals time sharing
one wire. Advantage of digital circuitry.

On 9/10/2013 11:19 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 09/10/2013 12:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 09/10/2013 12:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2013 10:14:34 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
My old house has a 3-wire thermostat, and I can either use a
mechanical

thermostat, or one that uses AA batteries.



I want to put in a smarter thermostat that requires power supplied by
the

furnace.

Another option is just get one of the thermostats that will
operate off of batteries and change them once a year. Most of
the programmable ones work like that. I have a Honeywell VisionPro,
which is a really nice one that I recommend. It will work with
either battery or furnace power. The advantage to furnace power is:

1 - You can set it so the display is backlight all the time.
With battery it only lights when you touch it to use it.

Lithium batteries last ~3 times longer.

2 - You don't have to worry about changing batteries, or having
dead batteries in winter when you're not there, etc. Some
thermostats have a backup mechanical that closes at 40F or so
to prevent freezing.

Some Vision Pro comes with RTA(return air) sensor.
Drill one hole into return air plenum to mount it. One wire
from it to thermostat to use this fall back freeze prevention feature.

Being a Honeywell retiree, I am always for Honeywell 'stats.

I've had good luck with them myself. Only complaint being the latest
one I purchased - which appeared to be the updated version of the same
on that I had in my last house - only runs off batteries, the directions
tell you not to connect the 24VAC wire from the furnace controller. Now
it's been in use for several months now with no apparent issues and no
battery changes, but just on principle I would prefer that the batteries
be for backup only as they were on my old thermostat. Also
reprogramming after a battery change is a pain in the keister (it's a
5/2 programmable deal, part of the reason I got it. The other being
that it has an "Auto" mode for the few times a year that you may need to
switch from heating to cooling or vice versa in the same day.)

All in all, if I'd known that it didn't tI always liked 7 day
programmableake the 24VAC input, I'd have
purchased a different model. (ordered it online as it was $20-something
vs. $60-something locally.)

nate

Hi,
If you must, there maybe a unused battery compartment in that 'stat.
Jury rig to put in rechargeable batteries in there and build a small
charger/regulator on a breadboard and hang it behind 'stat and drive it
with 24V AC coming from the furnace. I'll be 73 next month. My brain
still works pretty good but little slow. Always looking for some thing
to do or I still play my euphonium driving family crazy(just better half
now), LOL! I never used 5-2 programmable one.

That would actually be a great idea, if I didn't have 20 more important
projects to do as well. That's how I would ideally like to have the
thing work, have the power actually charge up rechargeable cells which
kick in only when AC power goes out for a true zero-maintenance (until
the cells actually die 10 years or so down the road) system.

I'm assuming you could just maintain a constant voltage on the cells,
that way you could piggyback right on the terminals of the cells and
make a crappy little power supply to keep them trickle charged. It
wouldn't actually power them up if they were run down, or at least not
quickly, but it'd be cheap 'n' sleazy.

nate


The battery may be connected to the thermostat wires through the
thermostat circuitry (not isolated by relay). Charging off of the 24VAC
may not be as easy as it sounds.

There used to be thermostats with rechargeable batteries that charged
with the voltage across the open stat contacts.

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets
you use any thermostat to get these features.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 23:27:06 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets
you use any thermostat to get these features.

Nest will control humidity, assuming the HVAC system will do a
reasonable job. It should be a big stretch to go from there to
whatever it is that the "high end carrier" does. Again, I'm certainly
not in the habit of locking myself into one solution.

Don Wiss wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets
you use any thermostat to get these features.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Hi,
Maybe I am one of lucky one. Never, ever had trouble with Carrier system
which is my favorite. My BIL is chief designer/estimator for
a large commercial contractor. He always point me to a good I mean real
good service techs.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:16:10 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets
you use any thermostat to get these features.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Hi,
Maybe I am one of lucky one. Never, ever had trouble with Carrier system
which is my favorite. My BIL is chief designer/estimator for
a large commercial contractor. He always point me to a good I mean real
good service techs.

OK, maybe I missed something but this is relevant, how?

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:05:13 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 23:27:06 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:
Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like
Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat
that goes with the system.

That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.

There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable
speed and precise humidity control.

There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their
system.

An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets
you use any thermostat to get these features.

Nest will control humidity, assuming the HVAC system will do a
reasonable job. It should be a big stretch to go from there to
whatever it is that the "high end carrier" does. Again, I'm certainly
not in the habit of locking myself into one solution.

Nest will control it only when heating. Carrier's Infinity will also
control humidity for air conditioning. For that you need a variable speed
fan and compressor.

Most a/c units simply have a set point and they turn the unit on and off as
it crosses that point. One with variable speed will always run. The speed
will be what is necessary to keep the temperature right at the set point.
None of this up and down temperature you get with regular air conditioning.
I know I can very much tell the temperature change. On a relatively cool,
but very humid day, a regular air conditioner will not get the humidity
out. A variable speed one will.

It is a matter of comfort. But I guess for some people comfort isn't that
important.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:12:51 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:05:13 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 23:27:06 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:



On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:



On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like

Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat

that goes with the system.



That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.



There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable

speed and precise humidity control.



There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their

system.



An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets

you use any thermostat to get these features.



Nest will control humidity, assuming the HVAC system will do a

reasonable job. It should be a big stretch to go from there to

whatever it is that the "high end carrier" does. Again, I'm certainly

not in the habit of locking myself into one solution.



Nest will control it only when heating. Carrier's Infinity will also

control humidity for air conditioning. For that you need a variable speed

fan and compressor.



Most a/c units simply have a set point and they turn the unit on and off as

it crosses that point. One with variable speed will always run. The speed

will be what is necessary to keep the temperature right at the set point.

None of this up and down temperature you get with regular air conditioning.



I've lived in a lot of houses and haven't had up and down
AC problems with a basic thermostat. Set it for 75 and it
stays at 75. If you've got ups and downs, it's because you
have a poorly installed system.



I know I can very much tell the temperature change. On a relatively cool,

but very humid day, a regular air conditioner will not get the humidity

out. A variable speed one will.

If it's cool outside, it's never humid inside my house here
in NJ. If it is a bit humid on the couple days a year
when the AC isn't running, I can just turn it on for 30 mins
and the humidity is gone. Hard to justify spending a lot of $$$
for a problem that is almost non-existent.







It is a matter of comfort. But I guess for some people comfort isn't that

important.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


I'm comfortable. There is no question that an advanced
super duper Carrier, with multi stages, humidity control,
etc can do a better job. But when I went out for quotes
two years ago, the Carrier guy was $6K more than the $8K
quotes for systems that were perfectly fine. The cost/benefit
equation just isn't there. And then, you're stuck with
Carrier's thermostat? I'll bet my Honeywell VisionPro
is easier to program.

wrote:
On Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:12:51 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:05:13 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 23:27:06 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:25:23 -0400, wrote:



On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:20:39 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:



On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:38:03 -0400, wrote:



On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 04:58:30 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

Wireless may be fine for now, but if you switch to a high end system like

Carrier's top-of-the-line Infinity, you have to use their wired thermostat

that goes with the system.



That's good to know. I'll avoid Carrier like the plague.



There are definite advantages to a high end Cariier system. Like variable

speed and precise humidity control.



There are other fish in the pond. Ones that don't lock you into their

system.



An example please. One with variable speed and humidity control. And lets

you use any thermostat to get these features.



Nest will control humidity, assuming the HVAC system will do a

reasonable job. It should be a big stretch to go from there to

whatever it is that the "high end carrier" does. Again, I'm certainly

not in the habit of locking myself into one solution.



Nest will control it only when heating. Carrier's Infinity will also

control humidity for air conditioning. For that you need a variable speed

fan and compressor.



Most a/c units simply have a set point and they turn the unit on and off as

it crosses that point. One with variable speed will always run. The speed

will be what is necessary to keep the temperature right at the set point.

None of this up and down temperature you get with regular air conditioning.



I've lived in a lot of houses and haven't had up and down
AC problems with a basic thermostat. Set it for 75 and it
stays at 75. If you've got ups and downs, it's because you
have a poorly installed system.



I know I can very much tell the temperature change. On a relatively cool,

but very humid day, a regular air conditioner will not get the humidity

out. A variable speed one will.

If it's cool outside, it's never humid inside my house here
in NJ. If it is a bit humid on the couple days a year
when the AC isn't running, I can just turn it on for 30 mins
and the humidity is gone. Hard to justify spending a lot of $$$
for a problem that is almost non-existent.







It is a matter of comfort. But I guess for some people comfort isn't that

important.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


I'm comfortable. There is no question that an advanced
super duper Carrier, with multi stages, humidity control,
etc can do a better job. But when I went out for quotes
two years ago, the Carrier guy was $6K more than the $8K
quotes for systems that were perfectly fine. The cost/benefit
equation just isn't there. And then, you're stuck with
Carrier's thermostat? I'll bet my Honeywell VisionPro
is easier to program.

Hi,
Still Infinity IAQ full set up needs tweaking to suit the local
situation. I had to interface it with my wireless 'stat and first year
I had to spend some time in summer/winter to make everything
satisfactory to our R2000 spec. house. Yesterday our new house cleaning
lady mentioned "Your house has very little dust build up", Of course IAQ
also maintains clean fresh indoor air.

.. If it's cool outside, it's never humid inside my house here in NJ. If it is a bit humid on the couple days a year when the AC isn't running, I can just turn it on for 30 mins and the humidity is gone. Hard to justify spending a lot of $$$ for a problem that is almost non-existent. It is a matter of comfort. But I guess for some people comfort isn't that important.

I will be curious to see how comfortable you feel when the variable speed drive motor fails and you see the bill for the repair.

Mark

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

. If it's cool outside, it's never humid inside my house here in NJ. If it is a bit humid on the couple days a year when the AC isn't running, I can just turn it on for 30 mins and the humidity is gone. Hard to justify spending a lot of $$$ for a problem that is almost non-existent. It is a matter of comfort. But I guess for some people comfort isn't that important.

I will be curious to see how comfortable you feel when the variable speed drive motor fails and you see the bill for the repair.

I have a annual maintenance contract. So far what has broken has been
covered under the warranty. For many parts it is 10 years.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).