Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote in Re OT Car
repair:

I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

The alt.autos.ford NG seems to respond to posts.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full

That's the whole car, right? Not just the radiator.

strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.

Sounds good.

According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

Makes sense. And sounds about right. I don't think I've ever
gotten more than 2 gallons in my car, even iirc when I went out of my
wat to flush and back flush the cooling system. These were LeBarons,
Catalinas, and a Centurion.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

Well, if you want, you can put as much as it will take in with the car
off, and the heater off, but yes, eventually you have to run the car
and turn on the heater, and let it warm enough that the heater valve
opens so you can make sure that part is full. And even then you
should check the water level the next day, until it doesn't need any.
This last part can be done cold.

When running the car is really important is when the car is overheated
and spuring out water, and then you need to add replacement water or
50/50 mix**. Stuff which is probably at room temperature. Then you
have to run the engine and add the liquid fairly slowly, so you don't
get room-temp water on a boiling hot radiator and cause it to contract
unevenly (or whatever)

**Except for the initial fill-up I usually take a whole bottle of
anti-freeze and mix it with a whole bottle of water and make two
gallons of 50/50, so that it's easy to add "water" without changing
the protection level of the coolant. I guess one needs, counting the
new gallon of antifreeze, 3 gallon containers to do this easily.


As a guy who went through 18 gallons of water in the last 4 days of
his last car's life, I know a little about this, but maybe a better
example was when I went through 5 gallons of water in a day and still
got home at the scheduled time and got 5 more years out of the car.

I've found on my vehicles, that the water remaining
in the block is about half the system capacity. You
ought have added pure antifreeze, until you got enough
in to be half the system. I'd have tried to fit 7 or
8 quarts of pure in, and put the cap on and run it.
check it with a float later, and decide if you want
to add water or pure.

If the vehicle has overflow tank, fill that to the
"full hot" line and check it in a week or so.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/27/2013 1:18 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze. I put 4 quarts of antifreeze and 3.5 quarts of water.


On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:58:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I've found on my vehicles, that the water remaining
in the block is about half the system capacity. You
ought have added pure antifreeze, until you got enough
in to be half the system. I'd have tried to fit 7 or
8 quarts of pure in, and put the cap on and run it.
check it with a float later, and decide if you want
to add water or pure.

If the vehicle has overflow tank, fill that to the
"full hot" line and check it in a week or so.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/27/2013 1:18 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

Metspitzer wrote in
:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group,



Try rec.autos.tech. It's still quite active.



Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid.


That would be the amount for the ENTIRE COOLING SYSTEM, not just the rad.
The engine block, hoses, and heater core will hold at least a couple of
quarts, likely more.

You've done the drain/fill completely incorrectly. Ask in the group I
mentioned above. Lots of Ford guys in there.



--
Tegger

Tegger wrote in
:

Metspitzer wrote in
:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group,



Try rec.autos.tech. It's still quite active.




If you don't mind a Web board, you can also try signing up to:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

They've got a very active Mechanical/Maintenance forum with some very
knowledgeable posters. And it's reasonably free of ricers and other
children that tend to pollute some other Web boards.

--
Tegger

Yes, that's pretty much what I found. My first
try, I carefully mixed up the 50/50 and ended up
with about 25% in the system. Had to drain it
again and add more pure.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/27/2013 3:48 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze. I put 4 quarts of antifreeze and 3.5 quarts of water.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?
Blow all the water out?? Drain the block and heater as well as the
rad.. then fill, run, and continue to fill - get all air out.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:07:03 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full

That's the whole car, right? Not just the radiator.

strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.

Sounds good.

According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

Makes sense. And sounds about right. I don't think I've ever
gotten more than 2 gallons in my car, even iirc when I went out of my
wat to flush and back flush the cooling system. These were LeBarons,
Catalinas, and a Centurion.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

Well, if you want, you can put as much as it will take in with the car
off, and the heater off, but yes, eventually you have to run the car
and turn on the heater, and let it warm enough that the heater valve
opens so you can make sure that part is full. And even then you
should check the water level the next day, until it doesn't need any.
This last part can be done cold.

When running the car is really important is when the car is overheated
and spuring out water, and then you need to add replacement water or
50/50 mix**. Stuff which is probably at room temperature. Then you
have to run the engine and add the liquid fairly slowly, so you don't
get room-temp water on a boiling hot radiator and cause it to contract
unevenly (or whatever)

**Except for the initial fill-up I usually take a whole bottle of
anti-freeze and mix it with a whole bottle of water and make two
gallons of 50/50, so that it's easy to add "water" without changing
the protection level of the coolant. I guess one needs, counting the
new gallon of antifreeze, 3 gallon containers to do this easily.


As a guy who went through 18 gallons of water in the last 4 days of
his last car's life, I know a little about this, but maybe a better
example was when I went through 5 gallons of water in a day and still
got home at the scheduled time and got 5 more years out of the car.
Actually the simple way is to flush with clean water, run untill
warm when full of water then drain as much as you can, and add 50% of
the published capacity of the system in pure antifreeze, then top up
if necessary with water, with the engine running and warm.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.


alt.trucks.ford has not had a new message for the past 18 days.


Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

The heater core, engine block will retain 'old, dirty water'. Back in
the day we just removed the cap, opened the petcock and then flushed
the system for awhile as the engine ran. Just flushed it with a water
hose for 10-15 minutes. Once you saw clean water, shut the engine
down, close the petcock to drain the radiator and add the anit-freeze.

....

Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:48:11 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze. I put 4 quarts of antifreeze and 3.5 quarts of water.

The manifold hose thermostat needs to open. Then water can circulate
through the engine block and heater core.

Run the engine to open the T-stat.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:31:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

The heater core, engine block will retain 'old, dirty water'. Back in
the day we just removed the cap, opened the petcock and then flushed
the system for awhile as the engine ran. Just flushed it with a water
hose for 10-15 minutes. Once you saw clean water, shut the engine
down, close the petcock to drain the radiator and add the anit-freeze.


.... read that as shut own the engine (clean flushed) and then the
radiator is drained once more to add the coolant.
...

Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:27:23 -0400, wrote:


Actually the simple way is to flush with clean water, run untill
warm when full of water then drain as much as you can, and add 50% of
the published capacity of the system in pure antifreeze, then top up
if necessary with water, with the engine running and warm.

Yep. And removing the lower end of lower radiator hose makes it go a
lot faster.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:48:11 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze. I put 4 quarts of antifreeze and 3.5 quarts of water.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.

Ain't it great to be lucky. You couldn't have got much closer.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. ;-)


On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:58:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I've found on my vehicles, that the water remaining
in the block is about half the system capacity. You
ought have added pure antifreeze, until you got enough
in to be half the system. I'd have tried to fit 7 or
8 quarts of pure in, and put the cap on and run it.
check it with a float later, and decide if you want
to add water or pure.

If the vehicle has overflow tank, fill that to the
"full hot" line and check it in a week or so.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/27/2013 1:18 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.

Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off? Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water. Where are you, and what proportion do you use?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/27/2013 7:58 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.

Stormin Mormon wrote in news:AcbTt.206277$Dy1.79803
@fx18.iad:

So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off?



It does if he's failed to pull the block drain (if applicable) and/or
opened the heater-control valve (if applicable).



Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water.



I'm two states north of you, and we use the same proportions. But those
proportions start with *known quantities and fresh fluids*. Failure to do a
full drain introduces variables, and not good ones.




--
Tegger

Tegger wrote in
:



and/or opened the heater-control valve



Typo correction:

....and/or FAILED TO OPEN the heater-control valve...


--
Tegger

On 8/27/2013 8:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off? Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water. Where are you, and what proportion do you use?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/27/2013 7:58 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.


He's never going to completely drain it, unless he removed block drain
plugs *and* opened petcock at radiator (assuming there is one) nobody
ever removes the block drains, so it's a fair bet that there's still
some old coolant mix in, really the only way to know for sure is to
check it with one of those floating ball things.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.


--
Tegger

If you Google "Mustang Owner's Club" without the quotes, you'll get the web sites of the Mustang Owner's Clubs of Canada, the USA, Great Britain and Australia. All of those web sites would probably have active Q&A forums like this one where you could ask a question.

Also, if you simply Google "Mustang Forum" without the quotes, you'll get a whole bunch more forums all dedicated to the various flavours of Mustangs; 5.0's, Cobras, fastbacks, convertibles, GT's, etc.

On 8/27/2013 8:38 PM, Tegger wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.


'splain to me why then I am apparently the first person to touch them on
pretty much any car I get...

although it's understandable as sometimes that requires starter removal etc.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

On 8/27/2013 8:38 PM, Tegger wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to
remove block drains.


'splain to me why then I am apparently the first person to touch them
on pretty much any car I get...



'Cause all your cars were worked on by the above-mentioned persons.



although it's understandable as sometimes that requires starter
removal etc.



On what cars? I've yet to encounter a block drain that required more than
hoisting the vehicle. But then I've never worked on a Porsha or a
Zaporozhets.


--
Tegger

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:31:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

The heater core, engine block will retain 'old, dirty water'. Back in
the day we just removed the cap, opened the petcock and then flushed
the system for awhile as the engine ran. Just flushed it with a water
hose for 10-15 minutes. Once you saw clean water, shut the engine
down, close the petcock to drain the radiator and add the anit-freeze.


... read that as shut own the engine (clean flushed) and then the
radiator is drained once more to add the coolant.
...

Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?

Try turning the car upside down

Daniel

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:09:43 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off? Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water. Where are you, and what proportion do you use?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org


Yes, he would be way off, as I explained below:

This example system holds 14 quarts of coolant. This total system
holds 7 quarts of water and 7 quarts of antifreeze for a 50/50 mix,
right?

OK, now drain half of that out and you have 7 quarts of coolant left.
The remaining 50/50 mix would consist of 3-1/2 quarts of water and
3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze, right?

If he were to add 7 quarts of straight antifreeze to the remaining
50/50 mix he would end up with a mixture of 3-1/2 quarts of water and
10-1/2 quarts of antifreeze... a mixture of 25/75. In other words --
way off, right?



On 8/27/2013 7:58 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:30:54 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/27/2013 8:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off? Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water. Where are you, and what proportion do you use?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/27/2013 7:58 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.


He's never going to completely drain it, unless he removed block drain
plugs *and* opened petcock at radiator (assuming there is one) nobody
ever removes the block drains, so it's a fair bet that there's still
some old coolant mix in, really the only way to know for sure is to
check it with one of those floating ball things.

nate

Right. You need a base line to begin with otherwise you're just
guessing.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:31:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:18:47 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Since I do not know of an "active" car repair group, maybe some home
repair people might know the answer. I sure would like to know of an
active car repair group.


alt.trucks.ford has not had a new message for the past 18 days.


Anyway, I drained the radiator on my 96 Mustang GT. My car manual
says it holds 14 quarts of fluid. I had a gallon (4 quarts) of full
strength anti-freeze. I wanted to shoot for a half and half solution.
According to my math, I should have been able to pour the entire
gallon in the radiator and fill the empty container with a gallon (4
quarts) of water. That would have taken me to 8 quarts. I should
have been short 6 quarts of mix.

The car took the 4 quarts of anti-freeze and most of the gallon of
water. I am guessing that the engine still had 6 quarts of water in
the hoses or in the engine somewhere.

What is the proper way to completely fill the radiator? Car running?
Heater on?

The heater core, engine block will retain 'old, dirty water'. Back in
the day we just removed the cap, opened the petcock and then flushed
the system for awhile as the engine ran. Just flushed it with a water
hose for 10-15 minutes. Once you saw clean water, shut the engine
down, close the petcock to drain the radiator and add the anit-freeze.

...

Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?
It remains toxic LONG after it is no longer useful as a coolant.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:31:49 -0700, Oren wrote:


Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?

Both then and now, I don't think it hurts the ground or the grass
much, but it's poisonous to dogs and cats, iirc. If we could only get
the cats to drink it and somehow protect the dogs.

It's bad when the rain makes it run off into streams.

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:14:52 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in news:AcbTt.206277$Dy1.79803
:

So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off?



It does if he's failed to pull the block drain (if applicable) and/or
opened the heater-control valve (if applicable).



Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water.



I'm two states north of you, and we use the same proportions. But those
proportions start with *known quantities and fresh fluids*. Failure to do a
full drain introduces variables, and not good ones.
When you drain, you flush. If you don't, you are foolish. If you
flush the block and heater contain clear water. If a 14 quart system
has 7 quarts of clear water left in it, adding 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze gives you the correct 50/50 mixture.
If you didn't flush the system you just wasted all the effort and the
new antifreeze you installed, even if by luck you DID get the right
mixture.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:30:54 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/27/2013 8:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off? Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water. Where are you, and what proportion do you use?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/27/2013 7:58 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.


Actually 7 quarts would have been way off.

Only after knowing how much coolant drained out would you be able to
calculate the correct amount of water and antifreeze... that is
assuming the coolant was at the correct level AND the correct ratio to
begin with.

In your case after you drained out half of the total volume of the
system, with the above assumption, you knew you had 3-1/2 quarts
remaining of water and 3-1/2 quarts of antifreeze. Because that is
precisely half of the system volume that is precisely what needed to
be replaced... 3-1/2 half quarts of water and 3-1/2 quarts of
antifreeze.


He's never going to completely drain it, unless he removed block drain
plugs *and* opened petcock at radiator (assuming there is one) nobody
ever removes the block drains, so it's a fair bet that there's still
some old coolant mix in, really the only way to know for sure is to
check it with one of those floating ball things.

nate
If you don't FLUSH the system when changing coolant, you are wasting
your time and money. If you do flush the system, you have 7 quarts (in
this case) of clean fresh water already in the system waiting for the
addition of 7 quarts of antifreeze.

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.
Except some cars no longer HAVE block drains. Just like some
automatic transmissions no longer have dipsticks and fill tubes.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:48:11 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

Adding pure antifreeze would have been just about the right amount
actually. Half of the system should have been 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze.

But that assumes there was no antifreeze in the water left in the
engine. If you didn't flush it, just drained as much as would come
out, the fluid remaining was probably 50/50 already.

Look on the chart on the bottle and depending on where you live and
where your car spends the winters, you may see that even 30/70
protects at the lowest temps your car will face.

I put 4 quarts of antifreeze and 3.5 quarts of water.

You can always check with a radiator hydrometer (as opposed to a
battery hydrometer). I bought, and I still have, a real one, a foot
long, with a scale with 10 values, but now they sell much smaller ones
with 4 litle white balls, witha plastic tube instead of a glass one. .
For most uses, I think either is good enough. The small one is
cheaper, has a plastic tube that likely won't break, takes less space
and comes with a cap, which maybe keeps it from dripping.


On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:58:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Yes, I should DAGS.

How dispose of old antifreeze?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/27/2013 10:09 PM, wrote:

Does anyone know if anti-freeze fluid becomes none toxic to the soil
after long term use, and you could then drain it on the ground?

Now days?
It remains toxic LONG after it is no longer useful as a coolant.

From what I remember, the OP did flush the system
with tap water, so traces of old anti freeze isn't
an issue.

And what if he didn't? The mixture would end up
being too rich, and he could later drain a couple
quarts and replace with water. I don't see this as
a big concern.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/27/2013 10:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:14:52 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in news:AcbTt.206277$Dy1.79803
@fx18.iad:

So the total system is 14 quarts. He adds 7 quarts of pure, and that
some how makes it way off?



It does if he's failed to pull the block drain (if applicable) and/or
opened the heater-control valve (if applicable).



Around here (NY State, USA), we run 50/50
glycol to water.



I'm two states north of you, and we use the same proportions. But those
proportions start with *known quantities and fresh fluids*. Failure to do a
full drain introduces variables, and not good ones.
When you drain, you flush. If you don't, you are foolish. If you
flush the block and heater contain clear water. If a 14 quart system
has 7 quarts of clear water left in it, adding 7 quarts of pure
antifreeze gives you the correct 50/50 mixture.
If you didn't flush the system you just wasted all the effort and the
new antifreeze you installed, even if by luck you DID get the right
mixture.

wrote in news:vlnq19tnih51puv9634hcn48ht6k4qs5kh@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.
Except some cars no longer HAVE block drains. Just like some
automatic transmissions no longer have dipsticks and fill tubes.



An engine without a block drain does not need one: the engineers will have
designed the block to drain through the radiator. This is why I said "if
applicable" in my original reply. But the fact that the OP was only able to
re-install about half the reported capacity /strongly/ suggests that he has
left a lot of old coolant in the block.

If the OP's engine has a block drain (or two), then it is NOT sufficient to
simply "flush" the block by attempting to run the engine with plain water
through it, and it is an extremely BAD idea to run the engine with plain
water as the coolant. Running an engine with plain water can damage the
head gasket(s).

The correct approach is, with the engine *COLD* and *NOT RUNNING*, to drain
the rad AND block. With the drains open, run plain water through the block
and rad until the water runs clear, let it drain again, close the drains,
then re-fill using the correct procedure as per the factory instructions.

--
Tegger

micky wrote in
:



It's bad when the rain makes it run off into streams.



Modern coolant breaks down quickly in the environment. It's only dangerous
when consumed by animals before it has a chance to break down.

Coolant tastes sweet, which is why it's attractive to animals.

--
Tegger

Stormin,

How dispose of old antifreeze?

Your County or City probably has rules and collection sites for
residents. Here, it's just like oil. Drive to the drop-off site, and pour it
in the barrel. There are businesses that handle commercial accounts.

Dave M.

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.

Are you talking about freeze-plugs? I've never heard of anyone who
removes freeze-plugs to drain the cooling system. And I woudln't
want mine removed, because I need them to be put in right.



Or do cars you know have both drains and freeze plugs?

What makes and models would these be? What makes and models have
drains at all?

On 8/27/2013 8:55 PM, Tegger wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote in
:

On 8/27/2013 8:38 PM, Tegger wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to
remove block drains.


'splain to me why then I am apparently the first person to touch them
on pretty much any car I get...



'Cause all your cars were worked on by the above-mentioned persons.

Or *not* worked on, as the case may be... seems that a "coolant flush"
anymore consists of a simple drain and refill; if you're lucky you might
get the lower hose pulled and rad backflushed.




although it's understandable as sometimes that requires starter
removal etc.



On what cars? I've yet to encounter a block drain that required more than
hoisting the vehicle. But then I've never worked on a Porsha or a
Zaporozhets.


Studebaker V-8 for sure, although you might consider that to be old and
obscure. I did it on my Jeep 4.0 as well, but I already had the starter
off to inspect the flexplate (wanted to check for the common cracking
issue while I had it up on ramps) so I'm not sure if I actually had to
or if I could have made a little shield to deflect the runoff over top
of it.

nate

On 8/28/2013 9:35 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:38:40 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote in
:

nobody ever removes the block drains,


Only knuckle-dragging hacks and driveway grease-monkeys fail to remove
block drains.

Are you talking about freeze-plugs? I've never heard of anyone who
removes freeze-plugs to drain the cooling system. And I woudln't
want mine removed, because I need them to be put in right.



Or do cars you know have both drains and freeze plugs?

What makes and models would these be? What makes and models have
drains at all?


At least back in the day of cast iron blocks, most engines would have
one or more NPT threaded holes in the block down low near the rear, with
pipe plugs threaded into them at the factory. Studebaker had them for
sure, so did Chevy (at least SBC, presumably BBC also) and MoPar (B, RB,
and LA) not sure about Ford but I would assume that they did as well.

Definitely any engine ever converted for marine use ought to have them,
otherwise how do you drain the water out for winterizing?

nate