I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that runs to an
outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable that goes to the
outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the ceiling down to the outlet it
is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I assume that the metal conduit is
1/2-inch (the outside diameter of the conduit is about 3/4-inch).

I would like to add a pull string ceiling light above the sump pump for
better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC which is next
to the sump pump.

What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the outlet
and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet back up through
the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside
a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

On Friday, July 12, 2013 1:01:12 PM UTC-7, TomR wrote:
I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that runs to an

outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable that goes to the

outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the ceiling down to the outlet it

is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I assume that the metal conduit is

1/2-inch (the outside diameter of the conduit is about 3/4-inch).



I would like to add a pull string ceiling light above the sump pump for

better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC which is next

to the sump pump.



What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the outlet

and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet back up through

the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.



My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside

a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

You can’t have any NM cable inside a conduit.
It has to be single conductors.

On 07/12/2013 04:01 PM, TomR wrote:
I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that runs to an
outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable that goes to the
outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the ceiling down to the outlet it
is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I assume that the metal conduit is
1/2-inch (the outside diameter of the conduit is about 3/4-inch).

I would like to add a pull string ceiling light above the sump pump for
better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC which is next
to the sump pump.

What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the outlet
and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet back up through
the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside
a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

I don't know the answer to that question as I'm used to seeing THHN
instead... I'm assuming the reason for using NM is that the EMT just
terminates at a bushing above the ceiling, and is only used for
protection of the cable?

Is the recep in a 1900 (4" square) box or a handy box? If a 1900 box I
would just get another stick of EMT and do it that way. (don't forget
the bushing where the EMT terminates, to prevent chafing the NM.) If it
is a handy box you probably don't have enough room in the box to legally
add more conductors anyway, and should consider replacing it with a 1900
box.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 7/12/2013 4:01 PM, TomR wrote:
I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that runs to an
outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable that goes to the
outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the ceiling down to the outlet it
is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I assume that the metal conduit is
1/2-inch (the outside diameter of the conduit is about 3/4-inch).

I would like to add a pull string ceiling light above the sump pump for
better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC which is next
to the sump pump.

What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the outlet
and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet back up through
the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside
a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?



If you run NM inside of metallic conduit, the metal should terminate in
you box using a proper fitting. At the other end of the conduit sleeve,
there should either be a choke or a bushing on the end of the conduit
and a staple into some framing near the end of the conduit. If you need
more cable entries in the box, use additional sleeves

wrote in news:64bcf2b4-d88f-4d98-8daf-383a8784b898
@googlegroups.com:


You can’t have any NM cable inside a conduit.
It has to be single conductors.

Absolute nonsense. NM cable is permitted inside conduit in any location where NM is
permitted without conduit.

"TomR" wrote in :

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside
a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

Probably not physically possible anyway... but no, not as far as I know.

RBM wrote:
On 7/12/2013 4:01 PM, TomR wrote:
I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that
runs to an outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable
that goes to the outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the
ceiling down to the outlet it is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I
assume that the metal conduit is 1/2-inch (the outside diameter of
the conduit is about 3/4-inch). I would like to add a pull string ceiling
light above the sump pump
for better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC
which is next to the sump pump.

What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the
outlet and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet
back up through the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground
cables inside a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

If you run NM inside of metallic conduit, the metal should terminate
in you box using a proper fitting. At the other end of the conduit
sleeve, there should either be a choke or a bushing on the end of the
conduit and a staple into some framing near the end of the conduit.

Thanks. That's how the conduit and wiring is set up now -- with the right
fittings clamps, etc.

If you need more cable entries in the box, use additional sleeves.

Okay.

Doug Miller wrote:
"TomR" wrote in :

My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground
cables inside a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?

Probably not physically possible anyway... but no, not as far as I
know.

Thanks Doug, gfretwell, RBM, Nate, et al.

I have another option that I think will work. The existing 14/2 NM cable
runs along the side of a ceiling joist close to where I want to put the new
light. Most likely, I can just unstaple that cable and create enough slack
to place a junction box in the circuit there and run the light from that
junction box. Or, if that doesn't create enough slack, I could just use two
junction boxes.

But, before doing that, I thought that I would check to see if I could do my
original idea of having two NM cables in the one 1/2-inch metal conduit --
apparently not.

On Friday, July 12, 2013 5:57:19 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

"TomR" wrote in :



My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground

cables inside a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?



Probably not physically possible anyway... but no, not as far as I

know.



Thanks Doug, gfretwell, RBM, Nate, et al.



I have another option that I think will work. The existing 14/2 NM cable

runs along the side of a ceiling joist close to where I want to put the new

light. Most likely, I can just unstaple that cable and create enough slack

to place a junction box in the circuit there and run the light from that

junction box. Or, if that doesn't create enough slack, I could just use two

junction boxes.



But, before doing that, I thought that I would check to see if I could do my

original idea of having two NM cables in the one 1/2-inch metal conduit --

apparently not.

I ran two romex inside 1/2" liquidtight going to my furnace and it was
an easy fit. I would think you could do the same with metal.
think you'd get two inside metal as well.

On Friday, July 12, 2013 2:15:55 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in news:64bcf2b4-d88f-4d98-8daf-383a8784b898

@googlegroups.com:





You can�t have any NM cable inside a conduit.

It has to be single conductors.



Absolute nonsense. NM cable is permitted inside conduit in any location where NM is

permitted without conduit.

NEC Note 9 in the Chapter 9 tables says
"A multi conductor cable of two or more conductors shall be treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage fill area. For cables that have
elliptical cross section, the cross section area calculation shall be based on using the major diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter".

On Friday, July 12, 2013 1:58:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 13:15:41 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



On Friday, July 12, 2013 1:01:12 PM UTC-7, TomR wrote:

I have a dedicated 15-amp circuit in an unfinished basement that runs to an



outlet on the wall for the sump pump. The wire/cable that goes to the



outlet is white 14/2 NM-B w/ground. From the ceiling down to the outlet it



is fed inside of metal EMT conduit. I assume that the metal conduit is



1/2-inch (the outside diameter of the conduit is about 3/4-inch).







I would like to add a pull string ceiling light above the sump pump for



better lighting while working on the sump pump and/or the HVAC which is next



to the sump pump.







What I am thinking of doing is getting power for the light from the outlet



and running new 14/2 NM-B w/ground from the existing outlet back up through



the same EMT metal conduit to the new ceiling light.







My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground cables inside



a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?



You can’t have any NM cable inside a conduit.

It has to be single conductors.



Wrong



334.15 Exposed Work.

In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11(A), cable shall be

installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).



(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from

physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate

metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, or

other approved means.

Even in that exception the conduit would have to be larger than ½” so as not to exceed the fill capacity.

wrote in
:

On Friday, July 12, 2013 2:15:55 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in
news:64bcf2b4-d88f-4d98-8daf-383a8784b898
@googlegroups.com:

You can�t have any NM cable inside a conduit.
It has to be single conductors.

Absolute nonsense. NM cable is permitted inside conduit in any
location where NM is permitted without conduit.

NEC Note 9 in the Chapter 9 tables says
"A multi conductor cable of two or more conductors shall be
treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage fill
area. For cables that have elliptical cross section, the cross
section area calculation shall be based on using the major
diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter".

How on earth did you manage to read that as prohibiting NM inside conduit?

On Friday, July 12, 2013 5:20:47 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in

:



On Friday, July 12, 2013 2:15:55 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:

wrote in

news:64bcf2b4-d88f-4d98-8daf-383a8784b898

@googlegroups.com:



You can�t have any NM cable inside a conduit.

It has to be single conductors.



Absolute nonsense. NM cable is permitted inside conduit in any

location where NM is permitted without conduit.



NEC Note 9 in the Chapter 9 tables says

"A multi conductor cable of two or more conductors shall be

treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage fill

area. For cables that have elliptical cross section, the cross

section area calculation shall be based on using the major

diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter".



How on earth did you manage to read that as prohibiting NM inside conduit?

It exceeds 53% of the area for ½€� conduit.

wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 15:32:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2013 5:57:19 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

"TomR" wrote in :



My main question is, is it okay to have two 14/2 NM-B w/ground

cables inside a 1/2-inch EMT metal conduit?



Probably not physically possible anyway... but no, not as far as I

know.



Thanks Doug, gfretwell, RBM, Nate, et al.



I have another option that I think will work. The existing 14/2 NM cable

runs along the side of a ceiling joist close to where I want to put the new

light. Most likely, I can just unstaple that cable and create enough slack

to place a junction box in the circuit there and run the light from that

junction box. Or, if that doesn't create enough slack, I could just use two

junction boxes.



But, before doing that, I thought that I would check to see if I could do my

original idea of having two NM cables in the one 1/2-inch metal conduit --

apparently not.

I ran two romex inside 1/2" liquidtight going to my furnace and it was
an easy fit. I would think you could do the same with metal.
think you'd get two inside metal as well.

You could get 2 in there if you aligned them perfectly and pulled them
in together but it is still an over filled conduit.
He also has another issue, the existing box is probably not big enough
to terminate 2 cables.

Probably not applicable in this case, but you are allowed to ignore
conduit fill calculations for cases where the cables are passing through
a short length of conduit sleeve. What was it, 24" length max?

wrote in news:509607f9-50bb-4b4c-9ad7-
:

On Friday, July 12, 2013 5:20:47 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in
:
On Friday, July 12, 2013 2:15:55 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in
news:64bcf2b4-d88f-4d98-8daf-383a8784b898
@googlegroups.com:

You can't have any NM cable inside a conduit.
It has to be single conductors.

Absolute nonsense. NM cable is permitted inside conduit in any
location where NM is permitted without conduit.

NEC Note 9 in the Chapter 9 tables says

"A multi conductor cable of two or more conductors shall be
treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage fill
area. For cables that have elliptical cross section, the cross
section area calculation shall be based on using the major
diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter".

How on earth did you manage to read that as prohibiting NM inside conduit ?

It exceeds 53% of the area for ½€� conduit.

All that proves is that _that_particular_combination_ can't be run in _that_particular_size_ of
conduit.

You made the blanket claim that "You can't have any NM cable inside a conduit" -- which is
complete and utter nonsense.

"Pete C." wrote in news:51e0b891$0$51390$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

Probably not applicable in this case, but you are allowed to ignore
conduit fill calculations for cases where the cables are passing through
a short length of conduit sleeve. What was it, 24" length max?

It is 24" max, but you are *not* permitted to simply "ignore conduit fill calculations". Rather,

"where conduit or tubing nipples having a maximum length not to exceed 600 mm (24") are
installed between boxes, cabinets, or similar enclosures, the nipples shall be permitted to be
filled to 60 percent of their cross-sectional area ..." [2005 NEC, Chapter 9 Tables, Note 4]

replying to TomR, Radon50315 wrote:
Why not use a lighting box and feed off the upstream end. Add new wire to make
up for lost length to the receptacle. I mean, that seems like the least
complicated solution. So what if it's a pull chain light. Light base wires
like a receptacle, receives power and doesn't interrupt downstream power if
pull chain light is on or off.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...es-755476-.htm