I have a partially completed project, the contractor backed out, after
installing the conduit. Now I have a 2 1/8 i.d. conduit running app.
250' underground with a nylon cord run through it to pull wires. The
original plan was to run 3 strands of 2.0 copper, which is probably
excessive for the intended load. I intended to pick up the project
myself, I have at least advanced amateur wiring skills, but went to
Lowes and priced the job, and found that 3.0 copper was actually
cheaper per ft. Can 3 strands of 3.0 be successfully pulled through
that conduit? Any tips / procedures?

Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand




"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a partially completed project, the contractor backed out, after
installing the conduit. Now I have a 2 1/8 i.d. conduit running app.
250' underground with a nylon cord run through it to pull wires. The
original plan was to run 3 strands of 2.0 copper, which is probably
excessive for the intended load. I intended to pick up the project
myself, I have at least advanced amateur wiring skills, but went to
Lowes and priced the job, and found that 3.0 copper was actually
cheaper per ft. Can 3 strands of 3.0 be successfully pulled through
that conduit? Any tips / procedures?

Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand

The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.

If it's strong enough to pull a car it's fine. Usually a thin nylon strand
is blown into the pipe and a poly rope is tied to that for pulling. Is this
a new service or a feeder from an existing panel. If it's a feeder from an
existing panel, you should pull a ground wire along with the feeder. I can't
believe with copper prices as high as they are, that anyone is selling 3/0
cheaper than 2/0


"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
ups.com...

Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors
will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand

The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
ups.com...

Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors
will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand

The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.


You should be able to pull up to five THHN or THWN #3/0 conductor in a 2"
conduit by code. I would also use pulling lube (also known as soap) which
you could buy at Lowes as well.

Eric in North TX wrote:
Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to

give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand


The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.


Eric
As someone has already suggested you will want an Equipment Grounding
Conductor (EGC) in that feeder unless it is supplied from a separate
service with it's own meter directly from the local power company. If
that feeder will share a service with any other building then you really
want an EGC in that feeder. The reason for the concern is that if a
neutral connection ever failed the current it carries would try to
return to the source via any other grounded conductive pathway. Those
can include telephone lines, cable jackets, intercom lines, security
wiring, metallic piping systems, and the local earth itself. Such stray
currents can cause electric shock, erratic behavior in pets, pour
production in dairy cattle, destruction of metallic systems, and under
some circumstances fire. The practice of running feeders without EGCs
will no longer be allowed under the next edition of the US National
Electric Code.

On a separate subject if the trench has not been fully back filled you
should take this opportunity to install a one inch low voltage raceway
so that you can run communications, alarm, and video wiring between the
two buildings at a later date.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating Current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Eric
As someone has already suggested you will want an Equipment Grounding
Conductor (EGC) in that feeder unless it is supplied from a separate
service with it's own meter directly from the local power company. If
that feeder will share a service with any other building then you really
want an EGC in that feeder. The reason for the concern is that if a
neutral connection ever failed the current it carries would try to
return to the source via any other grounded conductive pathway. Those
can include telephone lines, cable jackets, intercom lines, security
wiring, metallic piping systems, and the local earth itself. Such stray
currents can cause electric shock, erratic behavior in pets, pour
production in dairy cattle, destruction of metallic systems, and under
some circumstances fire. The practice of running feeders without EGCs
will no longer be allowed under the next edition of the US National
Electric Code.

On a separate subject if the trench has not been fully back filled you
should take this opportunity to install a one inch low voltage raceway
so that you can run communications, alarm, and video wiring between the
two buildings at a later date.
--
Tom Horne

Thanks for that info!! I wondered why as the third big wire was after
all a ground, why one would need a dedicated ground wire besides. How
big does it need to be? If it needs to be as big as the others, it
would add significantly to the cost of the project. The conduit has
been in the ground for a little over 2 years, but I did run a 2
conductor direct burial communications wire when the trench was open.

Eric in North TX wrote:

Eric
As someone has already suggested you will want an Equipment Grounding
Conductor (EGC) in that feeder unless it is supplied from a separate
service with it's own meter directly from the local power company. If
that feeder will share a service with any other building then you really
want an EGC in that feeder. The reason for the concern is that if a
neutral connection ever failed the current it carries would try to
return to the source via any other grounded conductive pathway. Those
can include telephone lines, cable jackets, intercom lines, security
wiring, metallic piping systems, and the local earth itself. Such stray
currents can cause electric shock, erratic behavior in pets, pour
production in dairy cattle, destruction of metallic systems, and under
some circumstances fire. The practice of running feeders without EGCs
will no longer be allowed under the next edition of the US National
Electric Code.

On a separate subject if the trench has not been fully back filled you
should take this opportunity to install a one inch low voltage raceway
so that you can run communications, alarm, and video wiring between the
two buildings at a later date.
--
Tom Horne

Thanks for that info!! I wondered why as the third big wire was after
all a ground, why one would need a dedicated ground wire besides. How
big does it need to be? If it needs to be as big as the others, it
would add significantly to the cost of the project. The conduit has
been in the ground for a little over 2 years, but I did run a 2
conductor direct burial communications wire when the trench was open.


To answer that question I need to know the size of the Over Current
Protective Device (OCPD) that will protect the feeder. IOW what size
fuse or circuit breaker will control the current to that feeder. The
size of the OCPD governs the size of the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
--
Tom Horne

Eric in North TX wrote:
Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand

The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.

You can use the nylon as long as it's big enough (ie too strong to
break with the expected pulling force...... 3/16 or 1/4 would be fine
but a little hard on your hands) One drawback of nylon is that it is
kinda stretchy. If you have to but a larger rope because the cord is
too small you might consider a larger nylon rope.....useful in the
future. Or if it's a one shaot use get cheaper material & just toss
it)

Your run is pretty long.....I would suggest the use of real wire
pulling lube and most importantly.......have a helper push the wire as
you pull it (or vice versa, if the helper is stronger)

Having someone push makes all the difference.

cheers
Bob

Eric in North TX wrote:
Without any idea what the intended use for the feeder is, it's
impossible to
give advise, however if its a clean straight shot, three 3\0 conductors will
fit. Just make sure you don't try pulling it with the nylon strand

The intended use is to power a workshop with a 4 post lift, air
compressor, welding equipment, and a wood shop (mostly 220v). It is a
one person shop generally, so it would be unusual to have more than one
load at a time, though my so has welded while I sanded or lifted a car,
and with the present hopelessly inadequate feed it browned out the
entire shop.
I had every intention of using the nylon to pull the wire, glad you
mention that, what should be used? I have pulled cars with that stuff,
I thought it was bullet proof.

You can use the nylon as long as it's big enough (ie too strong to
break with the expected pulling force...... 3/16 or 1/4 would be fine
but a little hard on your hands) One drawback of nylon is that it is
kinda stretchy. If you have to but a larger rope because the cord is
too small you might consider a larger nylon rope.....useful in the
future. Or if it's a one shot use get cheaper material & just toss it)

Your run is pretty long.....I would suggest the use of real wire
pulling lube and most importantly.......have a helper push the wire as
you pull it (or vice versa, if the helper is stronger)

Having someone push makes all the difference.

cheers
Bob

To answer that question I need to know the size of the Over Current
Protective Device (OCPD) that will protect the feeder. IOW what size
fuse or circuit breaker will control the current to that feeder. The
size of the OCPD governs the size of the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
--
Tom Horne
Tom you've lost me, the electrician who originally planed the job
planed to put a second main directly below the primary main to get the
tap for the sub panel as double lugging the meter isn't permitted
Wouldn't actual grounds at both ends achieve the same result? The
breaker in the 1st panel will probably be a 150, to stay below the
value of the main, then a 100 in the sub panel in the shop to stay
below that, then 50-60 as a maximum for the individual circuits. I
really don't have many high draw tools, the welder and the planer both
pull a bunch (not a technical term), but they are seldom used, then
again, when they are it is usually intense.

BobK207 wrote:
You can use the nylon as long as it's big enough (ie too strong to
break with the expected pulling force...... 3/16 or 1/4 would be fine
but a little hard on your hands) One drawback of nylon is that it is
kinda stretchy. If you have to but a larger rope because the cord is
too small you might consider a larger nylon rope.....useful in the
future. Or if it's a one shot use get cheaper material & just toss it)

Your run is pretty long.....I would suggest the use of real wire
pulling lube and most importantly.......have a helper push the wire as
you pull it (or vice versa, if the helper is stronger)

Having someone push makes all the difference.

cheers
Bob

I hadn't thought about the helper angle, but agree that it would work,
I've see that push / pulling romex around corners where you drill from
both sides (happens sometimes in remodeling) and a strong helper makes
all the difference. I have a big roll of 1/2" tight mesh nylon,
probably enough to double up over the distance. I was considering
pulling with the bucket loader as it would be a vertical pull, only
danger would be no feel for snags which could lead to breaking the
pulling lines. I have about a quart of wire pulling lube, & will get
more if needed (suggested).

By current NEC rules, you can install ground rods at the remote building to
ground the system, but only if there are no metallic conductors of any kind
linking the two buildings together, such as water pipes, telephone cables,
metal conduit etc.


"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
oups.com...

To answer that question I need to know the size of the Over Current
Protective Device (OCPD) that will protect the feeder. IOW what size
fuse or circuit breaker will control the current to that feeder. The
size of the OCPD governs the size of the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
--
Tom Horne
Tom you've lost me, the electrician who originally planed the job
planed to put a second main directly below the primary main to get the
tap for the sub panel as double lugging the meter isn't permitted
Wouldn't actual grounds at both ends achieve the same result? The
breaker in the 1st panel will probably be a 150, to stay below the
value of the main, then a 100 in the sub panel in the shop to stay
below that, then 50-60 as a maximum for the individual circuits. I
really don't have many high draw tools, the welder and the planer both
pull a bunch (not a technical term), but they are seldom used, then
again, when they are it is usually intense.

Eric in North TX wrote:
BobK207 wrote:
You can use the nylon as long as it's big enough (ie too strong to
break with the expected pulling force...... 3/16 or 1/4 would be fine
but a little hard on your hands) One drawback of nylon is that it is
kinda stretchy. If you have to but a larger rope because the cord is
too small you might consider a larger nylon rope.....useful in the
future. Or if it's a one shot use get cheaper material & just toss it)

Your run is pretty long.....I would suggest the use of real wire
pulling lube and most importantly.......have a helper push the wire as
you pull it (or vice versa, if the helper is stronger)

Having someone push makes all the difference.

cheers
Bob

I hadn't thought about the helper angle, but agree that it would work,
I've see that push / pulling romex around corners where you drill from
both sides (happens sometimes in remodeling) and a strong helper makes
all the difference. I have a big roll of 1/2" tight mesh nylon,
probably enough to double up over the distance. I was considering
pulling with the bucket loader as it would be a vertical pull, only
danger would be no feel for snags which could lead to breaking the
pulling lines. I have about a quart of wire pulling lube, & will get
more if needed (suggested).


Let us know how it all works out.

cheers
Bob