Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 5/31/2013 10:17 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.


Believe it started out as a brush on. Too lazy to go look in the paint
locker as I know we have some. Either called Kilz or Binz, but yes, you
can brush/roll it on. Same product

On Fri, 31 May 2013 11:17:25 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.

Yes.

Gallons and ISTR 5 gallon buckets.

I prefer the water based Kilz

On 05/31/2013 08:17 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.

It comes in a spray can? All I've ever seen are the one gallon/five
gallon containers.

Jon

On Fri, 31 May 2013 11:17:25 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.


I used to get it in qts-- My last purchase a few years ago I had a
choice of spray on or [oil or latex] gallons. I got the latex. And
then, after a bunch of knots bled through, I tossed 3 quarts and got
the oil based one. But that was a few years ago.

Jim

On Fri, 31 May 2013 08:45:56 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

It comes in a spray can?

Yes.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2013 08:45:56 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

It comes in a spray can?

Yes.

Thanks to all who replied. MOST helpful, as always.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On May 31, 8:17*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

If the area is truly small...use a spray can & a hand held cardboard
shield or mask other areas.

In SoCal I think real KIlz (oil base) is still available.
I prefer Zinsser High Hide Cover Stain / Primer but only avaiable in
CA by the qt.

Other states have restrictions as well.
Home Depot site gives list of "no ship" states.

Kurt:

A lot of people think that KILZ oil based primer is somehow different than other alkyd primer because it dries so fast. In fact, I've heard people say that KILZ must be a shellac based primer because it dries so fast that it must use alcohol as it's thinner, just like BIN.

Truth is, KILZ is nothing more than an ordinary alkyd primer that uses a 60/40 mixture of naptha and mineral spirits, respectively, as it's thinner.

Naptha is camping fuel, and in order to keep a camp stove flame going on a windy day, you NEED the fuel to evaporate quickly in order to provide sufficient fuel for a strong flame.

As a result of that, KILZ's only claim to fame is that it dries so fast that anything dissolving into the wet KILZ won't have time to diffuse through the wet KILZ film to discolour it's surface and thereby "Bleed through" the KILZ. Since KILZ is rarely ever used as a stain sealer, I've never come across anyone who needed to use an alkyd primer who wouldn't have actually been better off with a normal alkyd primer that used just mineral spirits as it's thinner, rather than KILZ. Mineral spirits evaporates more slowly, allowing the primer to self level better when applied with a brush, and in most cases, people would prefer to allow for a longer drying time than deal with brush strokes.

Can you explain to us why you think you need to use KILZ instead of any ordinary alkyd primer?

On Fri, 31 May 2013 11:59:11 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

I used to get it in qts-- My last purchase a few years ago I had a
choice of spray on or [oil or latex] gallons. I got the latex. And
then, after a bunch of knots bled through, I tossed 3 quarts and got
the oil based one. But that was a few years ago.

Jim

Wood knots? Cover with shellac, first. It stops the bleed.

In a rental I had, the kids marked the back of a door, places in the
hall bath. Red marker. My usual cleaner (meant for this ) would not
touch it.

Kilz (latex) covered the red bleed. It took a couple three coats. With
Kilz, you can add a coat and another one minutes apart.

On 5/31/2013 11:17 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.


Kilz is a BRAND name, not a specific product, and it comes in many
flavors. I've used the shellac-based primer in spray can, and probably
came close to burning down the house. I used water-based primer on
Formica cabinet in bathroom, and it worked just fine. Here is a link to
product selection at Kilz:

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.j...8a 05d103RCRD

If tightly sealed, I've had Kilz w.b. last for years....comes in handy.

In article ,
nestork wrote:

Kurt Ullman;3071282 Wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.


Can you explain to us why you think you need to use KILZ instead of any
ordinary alkyd primer?

From your earlier discussion, my guess would be advertising (g). We had
a small roof leak and it stained and discolored the ceiling before we
caught it and fixed it. Kilz was the suggested sealer before we
repainted the ceiling.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 5/31/2013 1:24 PM, Norminn wrote:
On 5/31/2013 11:17 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small
closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is
truly remarkable.


Kilz is a BRAND name, not a specific product, and it comes in many
flavors. I've used the shellac-based primer in spray can, and probably
came close to burning down the house. I used water-based primer on
Formica cabinet in bathroom, and it worked just fine. Here is a link to
product selection at Kilz:

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.j...8a 05d103RCRD


If tightly sealed, I've had Kilz w.b. last for years....comes in handy.

I checked a few primers on Kilz' website, and saw none smaller than a
quart. Zinsser BullsEye is just as good and comes in smaller can,
although I doubt a pint will do a closet. Here's a link to one primer:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=216

Jim:
When any thing "bleeds through" a primer or a paint, what's actually happening is that something in that "thing" is dissolving in the primer or paint.

Fortunately, there are FEW things that are soluble in both water and mineral spirits, and so if your stain bleeds through a latex paint or primer, the usual fix is to use an oil based paint or primer, and vice versa.

Wood knots are full of a family of chemicals called "tannins" because they were used in the early leather tanning industry in the USA. So far as I know, all tannins are soluble in water, and that is why the knots bled through your latex KILZ, but not your oil based KILZ.

There was nothing wrong with the KILZ you threw out, it's just that it was being used for a purpose it really wasn't meant for. They really SHOULD put this stuff on stain sealers, it's just that it's easier to sell someone something than to educate them on what they should buy.

No, KILZ isn't a brand name. KILZ has always been made by MasterChem Industries. It's just that MasterChem Industries has to abide by the same rules regarding VOC emissions from it's products as everyone else, and so they've started making a bunch of different versions of KILZ. I think "KILZ Original" is the only one that still uses the original formulation.

Kurt:

Read my response to Jim Elbrecht in this thread.

Also, show this MSDS form for KILZ sealer to whomever suggested you use it, and explain to them why there's seldom any reason to use KILZ over an ordinary alkyd primer. In most cases, most people would be better off applying an ordinary alkyd primer because they could apply it with a brush if they only had to paint a small area. It's just that there's more misconceptions and misinformation floating around about paints and primers than any other technology in the entire home center, and KILZ is one of those products that's smothered in misconceptions simply because it dries faster, so people presume it's chemically different than other alkyd primers.

http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_ms...iture/kilz.pdf

The components of the thinner are identified in the first section. KILZ uses a 60/40 mixture of naptha and mineral spirits instead of pure mineral spirits. Naptha is camping fuel and is very fast to evaporate. THAT is why KILZ dries quickly.

The second section lists everything that doesn't evaporate from KILZ as it dries. It contains ordinary alkyd resins just like any other alkyd primer. Magesium silicate is also called "talc" or "talcum powder". It's being used as an "extender pigment" to make the KILZ dry to a matte gloss so that the top coat of paint will stick better. Titanium dioxide is a high hiding white pigment. It's what makes the KILZ white in colour and helps hide the discolouration you're painting the KILZ over.

But, EVERY general purpose alkyd primer will contain alkyd resins, an extender pigment of some kind (chaulk, talcum powder, pulverized silica sand, etc.) to make it dry to a matte gloss and titanium dioxide to make it white in colour and hide any underlying colour.

So, when you use KILZ instead of an ordinary alkyd primer, what evaporates from the wet film is different, but what remains behind on the wall is the same as if you'd use an ordinary alkyd primer.

The difference is that the naptha makes KILZ evaporate very much faster than an ordinary alkyd primer. And, in most cases if a person is using a brush to apply the primer, KILZ rapid drying time results in that person having a problem with brush strokes. You can thin the KILZ with mineral spirits to make it dry slower so that those brush strokes self level better, but the smarter option is to just use an ordinary alkyd primer that's thinned entirely with mineral spirits instead. That way you get the longer drying time which helps to eliminate brush strokes. If you still decide to use KILZ, prevent brush strokes by painting it on with a small roller instead of a brush.

Since the stain on your ceiling is dirt from your roof that was dissolved in the water that leaked in, I agree 100% with the recommendation to use an oil based primer to cover the stain. I disagree with the recommendation to use KILZ because ANY oil based primer will cover your stain as effectively as KILZ will, but will also allow you to paint it on with a brush without promoting brush strokes because of excessively rapid drying like KILZ will.

The problem is that KILZ dries so quickly, it's hard to apply it with a brush without getting brush strokes all over the place. Most people, once they understand this difference, opt to just use an ordinary alkyd primer, and give it 24 hours to dry. That's cuz the only thing KILZ does better than an ordinary alkyd primer is dry faster, and it's seldom people need that feature. You can buy alkyd primer by the quart everywhere, too.

DON'T use a latex primer. That stain might bleed through a latex primer cuz the dirt causing the discolouration dissolved in the water that leaked in, and could very well dissolve in a latex primer and discolour it, thereby "bleeding through" any latex primer you use.

PS: You don't need to know the rest...
Stain blocking primers will most often use ground up mica as the extender pigment instead of talcum powder or chaulk. That's because mica forms a "plate-like" structure, and the brushing on of the primer causes those plates to align themselves parallel to the wet film, and in doing so they physically block anything dissolving in the wet film from penetrating all the way to the surface. In that way, mica particles are more effective at preventing bleed through in both oil or latex primer than the extender pigments commonly used in paints (like talc, chaulk and pulverized silica sand). However, like I said in my response to Kurt, few things are soluble in both water and mineral spirits, so if a stain bleeds through a latex primer, then an oil based primer should kill it, and vice versa. Shellac based stain killers like Zinsser's BIN are popular because household stains that are soluble in alcohol are rare, and so BIN will kill amost every kind of stain you find anywhere in a house, except perhaps for a gin or bourbon stain.

On Friday, May 31, 2013 1:27:37 PM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

nestork wrote:



Kurt Ullman;3071282 Wrote:

Does Kilz come in anything other than spray can? We need to do a small

closet area and found out from the initial coat that the overspray is

truly remarkable.





Can you explain to us why you think you need to use KILZ instead of any

ordinary alkyd primer?



From your earlier discussion, my guess would be advertising (g). We had

a small roof leak and it stained and discolored the ceiling before we

caught it and fixed it. Kilz was the suggested sealer before we

repainted the ceiling.

--

America is at that awkward stage. It's too late

to work within the system, but too early to shoot

the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

Water based kilz muddle up more than oil based. Black mold will bleed through. Bleach kills black mold but you may have to cut through the ceiling to apply it to the rafters.

Beat lawyer to death with baseball bats. Preferably an elected official. Tell your congressmaggot to stop the CIA from kidnapping and torturing American children.