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#1
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
I'm trying to source my pool equipment o-rings by trade sizes and material.
I've figured out all the trade sizes; but does anyone know the material? Buna? Viton? Nitrile? Silicone? Butyl? Does it matter? If nobody knows, I'm going to go with Viton; but it would be better to know for sure what the OEM material is for pool pump o-rings. |
#2
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 06:56:48 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
I've figured out all the trade sizes; but does anyone know the material? Buna? Viton? Nitrile? Silicone? Butyl? Of the zillions of o-ring reference for pool pump parts on the web, this is the only one I've found, so far, that mentions the material. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sta-Rite-O-R...-/190660713317 |
#3
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:19:11 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
This listing also mentions pool o-ring material; but it is confusing at best. http://tinyurl.com/nojnt73 http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...ducts_id=18551 24850-0009 Sta-Rite Tank O-Ring - System 3 Filter, 25 inch diameter Alladin O-486 The o-rings listed are made from Buna, Viton or EPDM compounds. All pool o-rings are made from Buna unless otherwise stated. If you are running a chlorine system and can not locate the Viton o-ring that you need, please contact us to make sure one is available. From that, I can't tell if pool o-rings are buna or viton. |
#4
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:30:21 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
From that, I can't tell if pool o-rings are buna or viton. This pool o-ring blog implies they're EPDM (but they seem to have their facts wrong on Buna-N so I can't really trust their advice). http://blog.poolcenter.com/article.aspx?articleid=6082 "Swimming pool pump and filter o-rings are typically made with EPDM rubber, while chlorinator o-rings are usually made of a Fluorocarbon, Viton or FKM. Some more expensive types are made with a Nitrile rubber, used in Buna type o-rings." |
#5
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No. If nobody knows, then go with nitrile rubber because it's the most widely used rubber for making O-rings, and so not only will every O-ring you ever need to buy be available and in stock in nitrile rubber at any place that sells O-rings, but nitrile rubber O-rings are very much cheaper than any other kind of rubber O-ring. An O-ring that costs 12 cents in nitrile rubber will cost 2 dollars in EPDM rubber, and it's not because EPDM rubber will last 20 times as long. It's because there's 20 nitrile rubber O-rings made and sold for every EPDM rubber O-ring made and sold, and it's mass production and greater availability from competitors that brings down the cost of nitrile rubber O-rings. Read my post in the thread by PeteCresswell entitled "Enhancing an O-ring Seal" just about 10 threads below yours. That will explain everything you need to know about O-rings. Maybe print off that post and show it to the manager of any place that sell's O-rings in your area to get his comment. Last edited by nestork : May 25th 13 at 11:46 PM |
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#7
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sun, 26 May 2013 00:52:20 +0200, nestork
wrote: I looked at the diagram for the pool pump you posted. In my experience, that large and small O-ring together shouldn't cost any more than $2 or $3 in nitrile at any shop that sells O-rings. The manufacturer will charge you $25 for those two O-rings as a repair "kit", but only people that are scared to buy anything but OEM repair parts would ever pay that much. Yes, this is true to some degree. You can also spend hours on end "learning" about O-rings. You'll note the kit for his pump includes the ceramic seal, etc. What he needs to stop the pump leak, all in one package. If I had a deadline, I'd get the kit, fix the leak and be done with the project. Study the history of O-rings later. "**** or get off the pot", as they saying goes. |
#8
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton? nitrile? silicone?)
replying to Danny D., Oliver Street wrote:
You did the right thing. The choices are substantially butyl rubber, nitrile rubber, BUNA-N, and Viton. The correct choice for an application is driven by cost vs. the resistance to whatever environmental stress is present that will either break down the rubber or penetrate and swell the rubber until it's too soft. Viton is between 1.5x and 2x the price, and has several times the resistance to oxidation salt and chlorine, and swells about 1/10 to 1/4 as much as the others in oil and grease, and less in water. The pecking order would be Viton, Nitrile or BUNA-N, butyl, unstated elastomer. -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...to-749807-.htm |
#9
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 10:46:58 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
I doubt it really makes much difference. I tried calling Aladdin Equipment (941-371-3732) today (http://www.aladdin1950.com) to ask what they make their kits out of, since they use trade sizes in their kit descriptions; but they're not open on Saturdays. Swimming pool water is about as benign a fluid as you can find. I was thinking sunlight + water + chlorine + acid was the environment. Note: Sunlight might be eliminated once installed though. This is a reference http://www.grainger.com/tps/pumps_ch...patibility.pdf Wow! Thanks. Comprehensive. A keeper! Mostly for metals though. They list Buna-N (aka Nitrile) & Viton, & maybe Silicone; but not EPDM, nor Kalrez. Note: They list "Silicon" in the rubber section, so maybe that's a typo? Googling for o-ring materials, it seems the material choices go in this order: a. First see if Buna-N (Nitrile) will work (because it's the cheapest solution). b. If that won't work, use Silicone, c. If that won't work, use Viton (Fluoro-elastomer), d. If that won't work, use EPDM, e. If that won't work, use Kalrez (perfluoro-elastomer). REF: http://www.metrogasket.com/o-rings/m...tion_guide.htm |
#10
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On May 25, 7:46*am, wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 06:56:48 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." wrote: I'm trying to source my pool equipment o-rings by trade sizes and material. I've figured out all the trade sizes; but does anyone know the material? Buna? Viton? Nitrile? Silicone? Butyl? Does it matter? If nobody knows, I'm going to go with Viton; but it would be better to know for sure what the OEM material is for pool pump o-rings. I doubt it really makes much difference. Swimming pool water is about as benign a fluid as you can find. When I lived in DC my city water tested "ideal" on a 2 bottle pool tester. If you are actually in the chlorinator itself, that is a more hostile environment. This is a reference http://www.grainger.com/tps/pumps_ch...patibility.pdf http://www.grainger.com/tps/pumps_ch...patibility.pdf Swimming pool water is about as benign a fluid as you can find. +1 DDD- If you want to educate yourself to reasonable level about O-rings & O- ring material apps,' go to McMaster Carr catalog and search on O- rings. If you REALLY want to learn about O-rings http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD...g_Handbook.pdf Hint.... my dad & I used o-rings in pools for many years without ever researching materials. Pool O-rings ain't rocket science or PhD work. "I was thinking sunlight + water + chlorine + acid was the environment. Pool water is nearly drinkable except for the salts / hardness level. KISS Calm down....you're over thinking (& incorrectly at that) nearly everything you approach. Ya know...your calls to all the mfr's may seem "free" but the true cost is coming out of the shareholders or owner's pocket. Reduce the clutter...... Get some Buna-N's from McMaster & be done. If they fail (which they won't) replacement with EDPM. |
#11
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton? nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:44:42 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote: researching materials. Pool O-rings ain't rocket science or PhD work. Nope. They are not. A kit for his pump is ~ $25, local. Danny is showing his "Accountant" attributes. Counting beans... Sausage is good with eggs. Not something you would see being made. Danny stop complicating a minor concern. |
#12
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:13:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
Danny is showing his "Accountant" attributes. Counting beans... I'm still shocked you know I'm an accountant! (I must start counting Huckleberries when you say they're in season!) The problem with the kits, by the way, is that they're incomplete. http://www.aladdin1950.com/index.html For example, the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9 for my pump is missing the drain plug o-rings; and there doesn't seem to be a filter o-ring kit for the 25-inch diameter Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150 filter tank. |
#13
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On May 25, 3:54*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:13:55 -0700, Oren wrote: Danny is showing his "Accountant" attributes. Counting beans... I'm still shocked you know I'm an accountant! (I must start counting Huckleberries when you say they're in season!) The problem with the kits, by the way, is that they're incomplete. *http://www.aladdin1950.com/index.html For example, the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9 for my pump is missing the drain plug o-rings; and there doesn't seem to be a filter o-ring kit for the 25-inch diameter Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150 filter tank. The guys who regularly post on AHR are pretty sharp.... It would take a major brain injury for most to forget that you're an accountant...... Especially since your ongoing behavior reinforces the image MANY times per day. The plant manager where I work has a saying about "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes"... ponder that. |
#14
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I think Danny just wants to take the time to make sure he's doing things as correctly as he can. That's what a university education and the principles of accounting drive into a person. I find I'm the same way whenever I start dabbling in anything I've never done before, such as when I started rebuilding my own laser printer toner cartridges. I wouldn't fault the guy for it, he's just wanting to partially compensate for not being formally instructed on how to rebuild that pump by using the best parts he can when rebuilding it. His only other option is to buy a "repair kit" for the pump, and that means paying $25 for $5 worth of O-rings. That's always the case cuz the company making the repair kit knows it's customers don't know anything about O-rings and would be scared they'd buy the wrong ones.
Danny: Your best bet would be to take the O-rings out of your pump down to any place that sells O-rings to the hydraulic and pneumatic cylinder and valve repair shops in your area, tell them they're from a swimming pool pump and follow their advice. My guess is that they'll sell you the same 70 durometer nitrile O-rings that are what everything in plumbing uses, and you'll have everything you need for less than $5. I have 66 faucets in my building; 21 kitchen faucets, 21 bathroom sink faucets, 21 Tub & Shower faucets and three laundry room sink faucets. I can't remember the last time I bought an O-ring in a hardware store or plumbing wholesaler. I buy all of my O-rings from Kepco Sealing Supplies in Winnipeg, and they primarily cater to the hydraulics and pnuematics industries, not to the plumbing industry. But all the plumbing hardware you buy in North America uses standard size O-rings, just like the hydraulics and pneumatics sector of the economy does, so they're completely interchangeable. The manufacture doesn't know which O-ring is going onto a kitchen faucet spout and which one is going into a pneumatic cylinder, he just makes them to the standard size out of the same rubber, and the O-rings he sells can be used equally well in either application. Last edited by nestork : May 26th 13 at 06:48 AM |
#15
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton? nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 22:54:25 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:13:55 -0700, Oren wrote: Danny is showing his "Accountant" attributes. Counting beans... I'm still shocked you know I'm an accountant! Why? (I must start counting Huckleberries when you say they're in season!) (you have time now since you retired The problem with the kits, by the way, is that they're incomplete. http://www.aladdin1950.com/index.html For example, the Aladdin GO-KIT38-9 for my pump is missing the drain plug o-rings; and there doesn't seem to be a filter o-ring kit for the 25-inch diameter Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150 filter tank. Kits are from different companies, I guess. Filter canister O-ring on the filter is usually sold as a single item or include an O-ring for the strainer basket on the pump housing (my experience). Pump kits may fit different models, whereas, a filter O-ring is specific to the style of the filter housing. |
#16
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sun, 26 May 2013 09:05:56 -0700, Oren wrote:
(I must start counting Huckleberries when you say they're in season!) (you have time now since you retired I never said that, but it's basically true. You really (really) scare me! |
#17
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:44:42 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
Get some Buna-N's from McMaster ... OK. Makes sense. Pool water is practically drinking water. I'll go with the basic 50-cent Buna-N (aka Nitrile) o-rings then. For accuracy, the one thing I need to better understand are what the trade sizes actually indicate. The trade sizes don't seem to follow any obvious rhyme or reason. For example, the tiny drain plug o-ring is a 0-39 but the much larger basket cover o-ring is a 0-12 while the slightly larger seal plate housing o-ring is a 0-240 and the hugely larger filter body o-ring is a 0-486. They don't follow any order that I can discern. Is the o-ring trade size merely from an arbitrary lookup table, or is there a definable logic to the trade-size designation? - ~1" drain plug o-ring (x2) U9-359; trade size O-39 - ~3" diffuser o-ring, U9-37A; trade size O-83 - ~3" filter union o-ring U9362, trade size unknown - ~2" pre1998: Insert o-ring U9-376; trade size O-113 - ~10" trap cover o-ring, U9-375; trade size O-12 - ~12" seal plate housing o-ring, U9-228A; trade size O-240 - ~25" filter body o-ring 24850-0009; trade size 0-486 |
#18
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On May 25, 3:45*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:44:42 -0700, DD_BobK wrote: Get some Buna-N's from McMaster ... OK. Makes sense. Pool water is practically drinking water. I'll go with the basic 50-cent Buna-N (aka Nitrile) o-rings then. For accuracy, the one thing I need to better understand are what the trade sizes actually indicate. The trade sizes don't seem to follow any obvious rhyme or reason. For example, the tiny drain plug o-ring is a 0-39 but the much larger basket cover o-ring is a 0-12 while the slightly larger seal plate housing o-ring is a 0-240 and the hugely larger filter body o-ring is a 0-486. They don't follow any order that I can discern. Is the o-ring trade size merely from an arbitrary lookup table, or is there a definable logic to the trade-size designation? - ~1" drain plug o-ring (x2) U9-359; trade size O-39 - ~3" diffuser o-ring, U9-37A; trade size O-83 - ~3" filter union o-ring U9362, trade size unknown - ~2" pre1998: Insert o-ring U9-376; trade size O-113 - ~10" trap cover o-ring, U9-375; trade size O-12 - ~12" seal plate housing o-ring, U9-228A; trade size O-240 - ~25" filter body o-ring 24850-0009; trade size 0-486 Homework assignment.... Did you visit McMaster? Attempt to investigate trade sizes? Or are you asking more questions before doing any due diligence? I get the strong impression you were the guy (characterization skipped) who asked a ton of questions in class in lieu of thinking. |
#19
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sat, 25 May 2013 16:48:19 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
Attempt to investigate trade sizes? I have read the o-ring charts and PDFs, e.g., this chart: http://www.allorings.com/size_cross_...nce_framed.htm And this PDF (starting on page 7): http://www.callapg.com/downloads/oring_catalog.pdf In these charts, the O-### goes up with increasing size of the o-ring; yet, in the list of O-rings I'm trying to doublecheck, that relationship does *not* hold true. If nobody can easily explain why, in a single sentence or so, that means that they actually don't understand this any more than I do. That's OK; but for you to intimate otherwise, without actually providing that single sentence, implies that you're in the same boat that I'm in on this sizing discrepancy. |
#20
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On Sun, 26 May 2013 06:06:57 +0000, Danny D wrote:
In these charts, the O-### goes up with increasing size of the o-ring; I should clarify that statement, by saying that for o-ring sizes from O-001 to O-050, the designation increases as the size of the O-ring increases. Then the size designation jumps, to O-102, where it starts all over again, tracking size up to O-178. Again, there is a discontinuity, until we get to the range of O-201 to O-284, where, again, increasing size tracks increasing number. Another discontinuity; and then we start at O-309 to O-395 for the next set ... until we jump to O-425 to O-475 for the penultimate set ... and finally, we have O-901 to O-932 for the final range. Within a range, the o-rings increase in size with increasing O-### designation. There are six ranges. I'll have to dig deeper to see what the variants are that determine the six ranges. Probably it's a ratio thing of the key measurements to themselves. If anyone knows offhand, why the six ranges - let us know in a single sentence if it's not a ratio thing. |
#21
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On May 25, 11:06*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 16:48:19 -0700, DD_BobK wrote: Attempt to investigate trade sizes? I have read the o-ring charts and PDFs, e.g., this chart: *http://www.allorings.com/size_cross_...nce_framed.htm And this PDF (starting on page 7): *http://www.callapg.com/downloads/oring_catalog.pdf In these charts, the O-### goes up with increasing size of the o-ring; yet, in the list of O-rings I'm trying to doublecheck, that relationship does *not* hold true. If nobody can easily explain why, in a single sentence or so, that means that they actually don't understand this any more than I do. That's OK; but for you to intimate otherwise, without actually providing that single sentence, implies that you're in the same boat that I'm in on this sizing discrepancy. Sometimes it takes more than a sentence or two to explain stuff. Sometimes people who know aren't willing to spend the time. Sometimes systems that appear to have no consistency .... really do have consistency & sometimes they don't. A lot of the time you try to "delve" into things to look for meaning where none exists. Sometimes things just have to be believed / accepted.... think about the spelling of lots of english word, no rhyme or reason (sometimes) just have to accept it. |
#22
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What material is used for pool equipment o-rings (buna? viton?nitrile? silicone?)
On May 25, 11:06*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 16:48:19 -0700, DD_BobK wrote: Attempt to investigate trade sizes? I have read the o-ring charts and PDFs, e.g., this chart: *http://www.allorings.com/size_cross_...nce_framed.htm And this PDF (starting on page 7): *http://www.callapg.com/downloads/oring_catalog.pdf In these charts, the O-### goes up with increasing size of the o-ring; yet, in the list of O-rings I'm trying to doublecheck, that relationship does *not* hold true. If nobody can easily explain why, in a single sentence or so, that means that they actually don't understand this any more than I do. That's OK; but for you to intimate otherwise, without actually providing that single sentence, implies that you're in the same boat that I'm in on this sizing discrepancy. DDD- When it comes to O-rings or anything related to O-rings..... we're not in the same boat, not even on the same continent. If you think I'm going to waste my time giving you an education (for free) about O-rings, you're even more of a DDD than I imagined. |
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