http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.

On 4/28/2013 12:02 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.


I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

Besides my storage mistake, I had used a sponge mop to apply the diluted
muriatic acid and near the end of my work the sponge fell apart from
decomposition of what must have been a polyurethane sponge.

Good url on household use. I should also mention rule of thumb that you
always pour acid into water to dilute and never pour water into acid.

Water added to acid, particularly sulfuric generates a lot of heat and
can be enough for an eruption that will cover you with acid causing
severe burns.

When working with strong acids or caustics, you always want eye and skin
protection.

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:02:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.

For most of my life I bought toilet bowl cleaner i cardboard cylinders
with plastic insert caps. Then I bought more than I needed, and the
last container say under the bathroom sink for years. When I finally
noticed it, the paper was bubbling and the electric heater under the
same sink had pits in the chrome. It was really a shame because it
was the heater my parents bought when I was born, to warm the bathroom
before bathing me. It was in perfect condition before, even the cloth
cord, at age 60 or so. It has an on/off switch operated by
stepping on it. The heater still works fine, and I cleaned the
pitting up a lot with rubbing compound, but it's not the same anymore.

Do they still sell toilet bowl cleaner in cardboard containers?

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:53:42 -0400, Frank
wrote:

I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

I've always heard the muriatic acid WAS used to etch concrete slabs
for paint or epoxy coatings.

I was just given (10 days ago) a two part epoxy floor coating (Behr).
Enough to do the single garage. Watching a videos I see they use the
two packets (white powder crystals) of Citric Acid Anhydrous to etch
the floor and scrub it. This breaks the seal if you have one.

One that acts almost like muriactic acid is a tile and grout cleaner I
have used. Sulfamic Acid crystals (treat the same as muriatic - add
to water - not the reverse). I spilled a drop on an paver and the
spot looked like a new paver.

I'm not a chemist. Care to comment on each?

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:53:42 -0400, Frank
wrote:

I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

I've always heard the muriatic acid WAS used to etch concrete slabs
for paint or epoxy coatings.

I was just given (10 days ago) a two part epoxy floor coating (Behr).
Enough to do the single garage. Watching a videos I see they use the
two packets (white powder crystals) of Citric Acid Anhydrous to etch
the floor and scrub it. This breaks the seal if you have one.

One that acts almost like muriactic acid is a tile and grout cleaner I
have used. Sulfamic Acid crystals (treat the same as muriatic - add
to water - not the reverse). I spilled a drop on an paver and the
spot looked like a new paver.

I'm not a chemist. Care to comment on each?

Citric acid as a fairly weak organic acid but it chelates metals like
crazy. It's a great descaler so it does not surprise me that it can be used
to etch concrete. It's used in dishwashers when drinking glasses start
coming out with a haze on them. Sulfamic acid is a pretty strong acid but
not as strong as sulfuric acid. It is, however, much safer to use. It is
certainly strong enough to etcgh concrete as it is also used a s adescler in
things liek CLR.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:30:41 -0400, "Baron"
wrote:

"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:53:42 -0400, Frank
wrote:

I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

I've always heard the muriatic acid WAS used to etch concrete slabs
for paint or epoxy coatings.

I was just given (10 days ago) a two part epoxy floor coating (Behr).
Enough to do the single garage. Watching a videos I see they use the
two packets (white powder crystals) of Citric Acid Anhydrous to etch
the floor and scrub it. This breaks the seal if you have one.

One that acts almost like muriactic acid is a tile and grout cleaner I
have used. Sulfamic Acid crystals (treat the same as muriatic - add
to water - not the reverse). I spilled a drop on an paver and the
spot looked like a new paver.

I'm not a chemist. Care to comment on each?

Citric acid as a fairly weak organic acid but it chelates metals like
crazy. It's a great descaler so it does not surprise me that it can be used
to etch concrete. It's used in dishwashers when drinking glasses start
coming out with a haze on them. Sulfamic acid is a pretty strong acid but
not as strong as sulfuric acid. It is, however, much safer to use. It is
certainly strong enough to etcgh concrete as it is also used a s adescler in
things liek CLR.



Thank you.

On 4/28/2013 11:05 AM, Norminn wrote:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

I would not use muriatic acid anywhere inside the house. The only use I
have for it is to soak the 'fingers' of my inground pool filter or use
it as a herbicide to kill grass and weeds around the pool and other
concrete walks. (I have a 4' wide concrete walk around the pool and then
a 3' wide loose stone area to the security fencing)

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 4/28/2013 1:05 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:02:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.

For most of my life I bought toilet bowl cleaner i cardboard cylinders
with plastic insert caps. Then I bought more than I needed, and the
last container say under the bathroom sink for years. When I finally
noticed it, the paper was bubbling and the electric heater under the
same sink had pits in the chrome. It was really a shame because it
was the heater my parents bought when I was born, to warm the bathroom
before bathing me. It was in perfect condition before, even the cloth
cord, at age 60 or so. It has an on/off switch operated by
stepping on it. The heater still works fine, and I cleaned the
pitting up a lot with rubbing compound, but it's not the same anymore.

Do they still sell toilet bowl cleaner in cardboard containers?


It's rare to find any liquids sold in cardboard containers anymore.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 4/28/2013 12:53 PM, Frank wrote:
On 4/28/2013 12:02 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.


I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

Besides my storage mistake, I had used a sponge mop to apply the diluted
muriatic acid and near the end of my work the sponge fell apart from
decomposition of what must have been a polyurethane sponge.

Good url on household use. I should also mention rule of thumb that you
always pour acid into water to dilute and never pour water into acid.

Water added to acid, particularly sulfuric generates a lot of heat and
can be enough for an eruption that will cover you with acid causing
severe burns.

When working with strong acids or caustics, you always want eye and skin
protection.


I have a pool house where all the pool equipment is stored in a cheap
tall cabinet. I usually leave my large plastic tub filled with 3"
chlorine tablets outside the pool house over the winter, but my wife
said the tablets seemed to lose some potency outside, so I stored the
tub in the cabinet inside the pool house at the end of Summer.
Next spring, when I started to get the pool ready for the Summer, I
opened the cabinet and saw all the european type hinges rusted to the
point where they looked fuzzy.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On Wed, 01 May 2013 10:52:54 -0400, willshak
wrote:

On 4/28/2013 1:05 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:02:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.

For most of my life I bought toilet bowl cleaner i cardboard cylinders
with plastic insert caps. Then I bought more than I needed, and the
last container say under the bathroom sink for years. When I finally
noticed it, the paper was bubbling and the electric heater under the
same sink had pits in the chrome. It was really a shame because it
was the heater my parents bought when I was born, to warm the bathroom
before bathing me. It was in perfect condition before, even the cloth
cord, at age 60 or so. It has an on/off switch operated by
stepping on it. The heater still works fine, and I cleaned the
pitting up a lot with rubbing compound, but it's not the same anymore.

Do they still sell toilet bowl cleaner in cardboard containers?


It's rare to find any liquids sold in cardboard containers anymore.

Ever go into a grocery store?

On 4/30/2013 6:30 PM, Baron wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:53:42 -0400, Frank
wrote:

I had access and use of hydrochloric acid in the lab but had bought the
gallon when I moved into my new house and wanted to paint the basement
floor. I wanted to clean and etch the concrete with the muriatic acid.

I've always heard the muriatic acid WAS used to etch concrete slabs
for paint or epoxy coatings.

I was just given (10 days ago) a two part epoxy floor coating (Behr).
Enough to do the single garage. Watching a videos I see they use the
two packets (white powder crystals) of Citric Acid Anhydrous to etch
the floor and scrub it. This breaks the seal if you have one.

One that acts almost like muriactic acid is a tile and grout cleaner I
have used. Sulfamic Acid crystals (treat the same as muriatic - add
to water - not the reverse). I spilled a drop on an paver and the
spot looked like a new paver.

I'm not a chemist. Care to comment on each?

Citric acid as a fairly weak organic acid but it chelates metals like
crazy. It's a great descaler so it does not surprise me that it can be used
to etch concrete. It's used in dishwashers when drinking glasses start
coming out with a haze on them. Sulfamic acid is a pretty strong acid but
not as strong as sulfuric acid. It is, however, much safer to use. It is
certainly strong enough to etcgh concrete as it is also used a s adescler in
things liek CLR.



I agree.

On Wed, 01 May 2013 10:52:54 -0400, willshak
wrote:

On 4/28/2013 1:05 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:02:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:05:17 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03286.htm

As Frank mentioned, muriatic acid off-gases through the plastic. Folks
that store it in a pool pump house or mechanical room that has
equipment will experience the rusting of metal. Same for storage in a
garage. Sometimes I see pool service guys that have rusted beds on
their pick-up trucks.

I place my gallon jugs outside in a 5 gallon bucket with a top on top
without closing it tightly.

For most of my life I bought toilet bowl cleaner i cardboard cylinders
with plastic insert caps. Then I bought more than I needed, and the
last container say under the bathroom sink for years. When I finally
noticed it, the paper was bubbling and the electric heater under the
same sink had pits in the chrome. It was really a shame because it
was the heater my parents bought when I was born, to warm the bathroom
before bathing me. It was in perfect condition before, even the cloth
cord, at age 60 or so. It has an on/off switch operated by
stepping on it. The heater still works fine, and I cleaned the
pitting up a lot with rubbing compound, but it's not the same anymore.

Do they still sell toilet bowl cleaner in cardboard containers?


It's rare to find any liquids sold in cardboard containers anymore.

They were solid, like small gravel, crysltals maybe, but not liquid.

Liquid toilet bowl cleaner is relatively new.

On Wed, 01 May 2013 12:43:51 -0400, wrote:

It's rare to find any liquids sold in cardboard containers anymore.

Ever go into a grocery store?

Is battery acid still sold in a box; plastic liner.

Like a grocery store house wife box of expensive wine?