I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

BlinnPR wrote in news:61cb844e-44bd-4639-8c21-
:

I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid (HCl). It etches and cleans the cement
you currently have. It is (or at least should be) easily rinsed off.
Moreover, since HCl is a gas, it should really totally vanish when the
floor is dry, aided easily with some ventilation. Doesn't your garage have
a big door?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article , BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

My first thought -- indeed, my only thought -- is to wonder why you are
looking for an alternative to *the* accepted standard method of cleaning and
etching concrete prior to repairing it.

On 8/15/2010 6:48 PM, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

Vinegar, maybe but it will not etch cement like muriatic.

On Aug 15, 3:48*pm, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

The acid is to etch the concrete. If the concrete is "dirty" with oil
or paint, these will shield the concrete from the acid.

Clean the concrete first with a "cleaner" appropriate to the "dirt"
and etch only if suggested by product you plan to use.

I use powdered laundry detergent (Tide) to remove oily dirt, paint
remover or mechanical means for paint.
I acid etch for epoxy paint.

The product (or mfr of the product) you plan to use for leveling will
provide (or should) prep instructions.

cheers
Bob

On Aug 15, 6:48*pm, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

Why not use muratuc acid? What's your issue with it? Clean it first
with a strong laundry detergent.

BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

If you have a clean concrete there are bonding agents that can be added
to concrete to aid in bonding to a previous surface. May or may not be
appropriate for the self leveling cement you want to use.

Ask the self leveling cement manufacturer for suggestions?

--
bud--

On Aug 15, 6:48*pm, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank

"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank


But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 8/16/2010 12:18 PM, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank


But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.


My response was off the top of my head, but op could have simply googled
and found such as this:

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/acid.html

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 15, 6:48Â*pm, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank
Not very effective though.
Years ago I stripped all the grease off the floor of the garage I
worked in using the acid out of scrapped batteries -it fumed like
crazy - but the concrete came out perfectly clean.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:08:57 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.


Sulfuric? Nitric? If you happen to have particles of gold embedded in the
floor and you want to remove them, use aqua regia (hydrochloric + nitric).

What's wrong with the hydrochloric (muriatic)?

Have you forgotten all the Murians who were killed to make it?

On Aug 16, 12:18*pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank

But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid


Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank

"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in
:

On Aug 16, 12:18*pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in
news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75
b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank

But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so
cleanup is more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid


Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank

Thanks! That helped the phosphoric acid cause.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18Â*pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

Hank

But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid


Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.

Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in
:


On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:

"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in
news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75

b-

:


Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.

H
---------------

I have a few gallons of a non-hazmat very safe alternative product to
etch concrete that I will sell for a good price. The supplier is no
longer in business so the etching product is on clearance. email me


paul oman

--

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.
Hank
But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.

Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I wonder how much lead
you put into the ground, or did you contain all the liquid and take it
to a hazardous waste site?

On Aug 15, 5:48*pm, BlinnPR wrote:
I'm in the process of working on my garage including filling in some
cracks running through the garage floor.

My plan is to use self leveling cement to fill in the cracks and make
the floor level.

I'm looking for an alternative to muriatic acid to clean up the garage
floor and provide a stronger bond between the garage floor and self
leveling cement.

Any thoughts?

Steven

There is no cheap easy to get alternative, but Muriatic fumes, you
should have a fan pulling the fumes out and get a Vapor certified
Respirator, about 25$ at any hardware store. Muriatic fumes and is
hard on lungs.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:


Any thoughts?

Steven

There is no cheap easy to get alternative, but Muriatic fumes, you
should have a fan pulling the fumes out and get a Vapor certified
Respirator, about 25$ at any hardware store. Muriatic fumes and is
hard on lungs.

This might have potential. Saw it at the pool store today. 10 year
shelf life, won't off-gas and rust things, but I'm not sure about
cheap as I have not checked a price.

I watched the video in the store. See it he

"The Magic Egg™ demonstration video shows how effective ACID Magic is
by dissolving the shell of an egg without harming the egg protein yolk
or the hand holding it. "

http://www.certol.com/AcidMagicHome.aspx

Check out the uses: 90% less fumes so they say.

On Aug 17, 2:41*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:

Any thoughts?

Steven

There is no cheap easy to get alternative, but Muriatic fumes, you
should have a fan pulling the fumes out and get a Vapor certified
Respirator, about 25$ at any hardware store. Muriatic fumes and is
hard on lungs.

This might have potential. Saw it at the pool store today. 10 year
shelf life, won't off-gas and rust things, but I'm not sure about
cheap as I have not checked a price.

I watched the video in the store. See it he

"The Magic Egg™ demonstration video shows how effective ACID Magic is
by dissolving the shell of an egg without harming the egg protein yolk
or the hand holding it. "

http://www.certol.com/AcidMagicHome.aspx

Check out the uses: 90% less fumes so they say.

It is hydrochloric acid, Muriatic is hydrochloric, I guess its a
treated acid. Muriatic would be alot cheaper.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:45:15 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.
Hank
But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.

Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I wonder how much lead
you put into the ground, or did you contain all the liquid and take it
to a hazardous waste site?
For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???

SHeesh!!!!

wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:45:15 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.
Hank
But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.
Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I wonder how much lead
you put into the ground, or did you contain all the liquid and take it
to a hazardous waste site?
For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???

SHeesh!!!!


For crying out loud READ!!!!!
"The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we needed
to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of batteries that
needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in excess of 10 gallons
of pretty strong acid."

There is a salvage yard in ND that recycled batteries with the sulfuric
acid dumped. They had to excavate a lot of dirt and send it to a haz
disposal site.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:33:05 -0500, bud--
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:45:15 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.
Hank
But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.
Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I wonder how much lead
you put into the ground, or did you contain all the liquid and take it
to a hazardous waste site?
For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???

SHeesh!!!!


For crying out loud READ!!!!!
"The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we needed
to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of batteries that
needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in excess of 10 gallons
of pretty strong acid."

There is a salvage yard in ND that recycled batteries with the sulfuric
acid dumped. They had to excavate a lot of dirt and send it to a haz
disposal site.
Look again. I said "The phosphoric is definitely SAFER."
Someone replied " Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I
wonder how much lead you put into the ground, or did you contain all
the liquid and take it to a hazardous waste site?"

I replied "For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???"


As far as the disposal of the sulpuric acid, neutralized sulphuric
acid (which is what is left after etching concrete or limestone) is
basically Calcium sulphate and water . Totally harmless.
The lead is a different story, but battery acid contains very little
if any lead.

wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:33:05 -0500, bud--
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:45:15 -0400, Tony
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:

On Aug 16, 12:18 pm, Han wrote:
"Hustlin' Hank" wrote in news:c8391a64-b33b-443a-a75b-
:

Yes, phosphoric acid is also used to etch concrete.
Hank
But phosphoric acid isn't volatile, while muriatic acid is, so cleanup is
more difficult with phosphoric acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Maybe you should check out the link below. You may want to re-evaluate
your position on Phosphoric acid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0QjqzIl3A

Hank
I've used both. Phosphoric works, but not nearly as agressive as
hydrochloric or sulfuric. And the cleanup us more work. Mabee the
Phosphoric I used wasn't as strong as the hydrochloric and sulphuric
were. The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid.

The advantage of hydrochloric (muriatic) is it is available from any
pool supply or hardware stoor.

Phosphoric hardly fizzes at all on normal concrete, while Hydrochloric
and sulphuric really "get up a head of steam".

The phosphoric is definitely SAFER.
Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I wonder how much lead
you put into the ground, or did you contain all the liquid and take it
to a hazardous waste site?
For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???

SHeesh!!!!

For crying out loud READ!!!!!
"The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we needed
to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of batteries that
needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in excess of 10 gallons
of pretty strong acid."

There is a salvage yard in ND that recycled batteries with the sulfuric
acid dumped. They had to excavate a lot of dirt and send it to a haz
disposal site.
Look again. I said "The phosphoric is definitely SAFER."

Yup, that is what you said.

You also said that you used sulfuric acid from batteries, maybe 10
gallons, which is what Tony responded to.

Someone replied " Not if it's coming out of lead acid batteries. I
wonder how much lead you put into the ground, or did you contain all
the liquid and take it to a hazardous waste site?"

I replied "For crying out loud READ!!!!!
I said Phosphoric is safer. Since when is battery acid phosphoric???"

You appear to have a short memory. In the same post you also said:
"The big advantage to the sulphuric is the acid was free and we
needed to get rid of it one way or other anyway. A big pile of
batteries that needed to be shipped to the lead smelter netted in
excess of 10 gallons of pretty strong acid."
That is the second time I have quoted what *you* said. It is in the
thread above.


As far as the disposal of the sulpuric acid, neutralized sulphuric
acid (which is what is left after etching concrete or limestone) is
basically Calcium sulphate and water . Totally harmless.
The lead is a different story, but battery acid contains very little
if any lead.

It is enough to cause an expensive haz cleanup in a junk yard in ND.

The point by Tony, which is entirely valid, is that sulfuric acid from
lead-acid batteries should properly disposed of.