I have a brick fireplace like this:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/28353179_QQL5kZ

I don't like the bricks -- rough surfaces are hard to clean, and the hearth
(brick floor) takes up alot of space.

Can the brick hearth be simply pried off and replaced with a smaller tiled
hearth? What is under the brick hearth, wood flooring like the rest of the
room, or a block of concrete?

Ideally, I would like to make the hearth into tiled, like in this pictu
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...akeover_25.jpg

I'm planning to hire some contractor for this job but I want to understand
how much work is involved.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:06:25 -0800, "bob" wrote:

I have a brick fireplace like this:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/28353179_QQL5kZ

I don't like the bricks -- rough surfaces are hard to clean, and the hearth
(brick floor) takes up alot of space.

Can the brick hearth be simply pried off and replaced with a smaller tiled
hearth? What is under the brick hearth, wood flooring like the rest of the
room, or a block of concrete?

Not being able to see the construction, I have no idea what is under
the brick. I'm sure it can be taken up though, It may be a concrete
slab, it may be wood. Any mortar would have to be scrapped, then
either a skim coat or backer board put in place for the tile.

Two thoughts come to mind.

You may need a concrete backer board under the tile to meet code
You may not be able to make it smaller and still meet code.

I'm not up on the latest requirements or you local codes, but often an
apron of some minimal distance is needed so hot embers and ash do not
start a fire. Just plain common sense on that, but find out for sure.
This is a start:
The hearth extension is the front part of the surrounding, the bottom
edge of the fireplace which extends out across the floor. For most
fireplaces, this extension must be at least 16 inches deep and 8
inches wider on each side to protect the immediate floor from heat
damage or combustion. Naturally, the surround materials should also be
fireproof, which is why stone, brick and rock materials are all
common. For very large fireplaces, with openings larger than 6 square
feet, the extension needs to be at least 20 inches deep and a foot
wider on each side.

Read mo Fireplace Surround Requirements | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/info_12201611_fi...#ixzz2N5G4JOss

On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:06:25 -0800, "bob" wrote:

I have a brick fireplace like this:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/28353179_QQL5kZ

I don't like the bricks -- rough surfaces are hard to clean, and the hearth
(brick floor) takes up alot of space.

Can the brick hearth be simply pried off and replaced with a smaller tiled
hearth? What is under the brick hearth, wood flooring like the rest of the
room, or a block of concrete?

Ideally, I would like to make the hearth into tiled, like in this pictu
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...akeover_25.jpg

I'm planning to hire some contractor for this job but I want to understand
how much work is involved.

This looks like gas faux fire place, used mostly for romance or
emergency heat. No fire embers popping out on to the floor.

I see a shut-off valve mounted on the floor, left side? Then I see a
wood floor and carpet.

Pull the left corner brick - you'll likely find a mortar bed.

So I ask about the carpet around the brick. Just some thoughts for the
contractor.

I think you are on the right approach but how do you get there?

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 17:22:13 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:06:25 -0800, "bob" wrote:

I have a brick fireplace like this:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/28353179_QQL5kZ

I don't like the bricks -- rough surfaces are hard to clean, and the hearth
(brick floor) takes up alot of space.

Can the brick hearth be simply pried off and replaced with a smaller tiled
hearth? What is under the brick hearth, wood flooring like the rest of the
room, or a block of concrete?

Ideally, I would like to make the hearth into tiled, like in this pictu
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...akeover_25.jpg

I'm planning to hire some contractor for this job but I want to understand
how much work is involved.

This looks like gas faux fire place, used mostly for romance or
emergency heat. No fire embers popping out on to the floor.

I see a shut-off valve mounted on the floor, left side? Then I see a
wood floor and carpet.

Pull the left corner brick - you'll likely find a mortar bed.

So I ask about the carpet around the brick. Just some thoughts for the
contractor.

I think you are on the right approach but how do you get there?

I looked back at your photos. Given that I might reconsider taking the
brick out. Even with the warts I see, or I'm wrong.

- The brick next to the exit of the door.

- Finished trim (molding trim) sits atop the brick.

- The face trim of the fireplace also sits on the brick.

- Tells me not to take ALL the brick out, but most of the hearth?

- In the end you still have brick on the floor.

Tell us about what I think is a gas valve on the floor.

Bob:

Perhaps you could help us out a little he

1. What is that "thing" set in the floor to the left of the fire place. All the gas shut off valves I've ever seen in my life have been ordinary bronze plug or ball valves, and that thing looks more like a sewer clean out. Also, there appears to be sufficient clearance under the grille at the bottom of that fireplace to accomodate a 3/4 inch ball valve, so there'd be no reason to locate the valve in/under the floor (?) some distance from the fire place.

2. Does this house have a basement? If not, is it sitting on a concrete slab?
If the house has a basement, then your floor will be constructed of wood and those bricks are most likely set in a mortar bed on the wood, or set in thin set on tile backer board screwed down to the wood underlayment. (Those bricks aren't heavy enough to require concrete under them to support their weight.)

3. Oren says he sees a wood floor (presumably in the corner beside that "thing" set into the carpet). To my eye, it just looks like the carpet is either bleached, stained or just dirty there because there's no clear "gap" under the baseboard as you would expect if the carpet were missing.
Is it possible to pull back the carpet in that corner and check to see if the floor under the carpet is wood or a concrete slab?

4. In that second picture, it looks like the hearth is made of white marble, or white tiling that looks like marble. Marble is metamorphed limestone. It's limestone that's been compacted by the weight of the Earth's crust and/or oceans while being heated by geothermal heat. It's a lot harder and stronger than limestone, but it's still not really hard enough to be a good choice for a flooring material. Yes, they have marble floors in a lot of old buildings, but those floors are cleaned every day by janitors so they don't get all dirty, and that's important because the sand that comes off of people's shoes in winter will scratch up marble. Sand underfoot, depending on what it's made of, will scratch up any flooring, which is why cleanliness is next to Godliness.
So, if you do pull up those bricks, then replace them with either granite or Porcelain floor tiles. Porcelain tiles come in both matte and gloss, and the gloss tiles are just as glossy as polished marble, but very much more durable. Porcelain floor tiles are the hardest and strongest ceramic floor tiles you can get, and they're typically used in areas of heavy foot traffic, like shopping centers. Porcelain tiles are fired just like other ceramic tiles, so they'll stand up to embers as well as any other ceramic material.


24 inch square "Calcutta White" porcelain floor tiles are made to look like polished marble.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:40:13 +0000, nestork
wrote:

3. Oren says he sees a wood floor (presumably in the corner beside that
"thing" set into the carpet). To my eye, it just looks like the carpet
is either bleached, stained or just dirty there because there's no clear
"gap" under the baseboard as you would expect if the carpet were
missing.

I looked again. The light color seemed to look like wood, but as you
say the carpet has some type of damage.

Good catch.

The silver piece on the floor looks exactly like my shut-off gas valve
on my unit, but mine is mounted on a wall adjacent the fireplace.

On Mar 10, 4:30*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:40:13 +0000, nestork

wrote:
3. Oren says he sees a wood floor (presumably in the corner beside that
"thing" set into the carpet). * To my eye, it just looks like the carpet
is either bleached, stained or just dirty there because there's no clear
"gap" under the baseboard as you would expect if the carpet were
missing.

I looked again. The light color seemed to look like wood, but as you
say the carpet has some type of damage.

It looks to me like something may have been sitting on
the carpet there for a long time and was just recently
removed. That spot looks to me like it could be squashed
down carpet.





Good catch.

The silver piece on the floor looks exactly like my shut-off gas valve
on my unit, but mine is mounted on a wall adjacent the fireplace.

Yes, looks like a gas valve for a firelplace to me too.


As for the main question, the brick on the floor is not
a problem. If the rest of the floor is of wood construction,
ie there is a basement or crawl space, then the brick is
just mortared to the subfloor and can be easily removed.
If there is slab under the floor in that room, then it's
mortared to that and can be removed.

The bigger question is the rest of the brick around the
fireplace. With typical modern builder type fireplace,
they use an insert for the fireplace and what goes around
it is there for decoration and isn't part of the fireplace at
all.

Is the brick sticking out from the wall, either entirely
or by the thickness of a brick minus maybe a 1/2"?
Is it relatively new construction, not a converted old
fireplace? If so, then the brick is just decorative and
will come right off. What's inside the fireplace? Does
the brick continue into the fireplace itself? If yes, then
the brick is likely part of the actual fireplace structure
and the work to change it could potentially be a lot
more involved. However, since you're using tile, it's
also very possible the tile could just go over the existing
brick that's around the face of the fireplace, as long as
the resulting increase in build-out doesn't cause problems.
You just deal with that as part of the wood, mantle, etc
that goes around the whole thing.

All in all, from what I can see, this doesn't look like a
huge project and it's probably straightforward.

When furniture legs leave depressions in carpet pile, those are actually called carpet "dents". If that's a carpet dent, it's gotta be the worst one I've ever seen. It appears to crush the carpet pile (and presumably the underpad beneath) right down to nothing, and then there's a further square shaped mark right in the middle of that "dent". I don't know what it is, but it's unlike anything I'm used to seeing up here where I live.

I've never seen that kind of gas valve. Why would they put it in the middle of the floor like that? Doing that would necessitate putting some furniture over top of it to hide it. And, of course, if the gas piping is under a wood floor, why not just put the whole valve under that floor where it's not gonna interfere with the installation of any kind of flooring. I've never seen a valve stuck in the middle of a floor either.

[/quote]The bigger question is the rest of the brick around the
fireplace.[/quote]

No, that brickwork wasn't done by a rank amateur. I expect that whoever did it purchased extra bricks and had the faces cut off them so that the wall "bricks" are only 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick or so and just stuck up on the wall like ceramic tiles with mastic or thin set. The fireplace itself simply isn't strong enough to support the weight of real bricks above it, and if there's a steel lintel above the fire place, what's holding up the lintel in a wood frame house? So, I think it's a safe bet to presume that the wall "bricks" are thin enough to be supported by the drywall or tile backer board and are purely decorative.

I agree the brick is probably just stuck to the drywall. But, removing those faux bricks is probably going to muck up the drywall surface paper so badly that it'll necessitate replacing the drywall around the fireplace. No biggie, but the homeowner said he wants to know what will be involved so far as work goes.

He might want to consider simply tiling over top of the existing brick with thin set. That might get a little thick and possibly heavy too, but the drywall should be able to support it OK.

Yes, but I wouldn't nominate this as a project for anyone short of an experienced DIY'er. The fireplace is going to be the focal point of this room, so everything's gotta look like it's well done or it's gonna be a source of embarrasment. But, if push comes to shove, Bob can always tell people his dog did the renovation work, and not to say anything when the dog's around because she's sensitive about the way it turned out.

nestork wrote:
Yes, looks like a gas valve for a firelplace to me too.

I've never seen that kind of gas valve. Why would they put it in the
middle of the floor like that? Doing that would necessitate putting
some furniture over top of it to hide it. And, of course, it's gonna
be a pain in the butt to install any kind of flooring around it.

Not hard to install anything around it because they are in two parts, top
part - what you see - screws in and has a flange maybe 1/8 thick.. Install
valve, install floor around it, cover floor with top part.

No idea why it is out in left field like that. Best guess is that the
wall - an exterior one - didn't lend itself to a gas pipe and valve.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:55:45 +0000, nestork
wrote:

Yes, looks like a gas valve for a firelplace to me too.

I've never seen that kind of gas valve. Why would they put it in the
middle of the floor like that? Doing that would necessitate putting
some furniture over top of it to hide it. And, of course, it's gonna be
a pain in the butt to install any kind of flooring around it.

These valves are installed on gas fireplace inserts. Common in my
area, but the valve is in the wall, adjacent the fireplace and not
left out on the floor. I've not seen one ever in the floor, though.

Sample:

http://www.buyinghome.org/clip_image001_0003.jpg

They key is removed when not is use - other than off/on of the valve.

I've never seen gas valves like that.

Here, they just use ordinary ball valves (or sometimes plug valves) for gas shut off valves.

To my way of thinking, it would have been better to put the shut off valve completely under the floor so that you'd have to go into the basement or crawl space to shut off the gas rather than have the valve in the floor like that.

But, obviously someone gave it some thought and decided that was the only option. (Unless they just put it in the floor like that to pi$$ off someone?)